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-   -   I have changed my mind about the Clinton email scandal (and so should you) (

adaher 07-05-2016 01:40 PM

Rule#1. Never cite campaign talking points. They are almost always inaccurate.

XT 07-05-2016 03:16 PM

Probably already cited, but I haven't bothered to slog through the seemingly endless pages of wrangling on this, so I figured I'd like to this CNN article and cut and paste some of the salient points:


CNN)FBI Director James Comey said Tuesday that he would not recommend charges against Hillary Clinton over her use of private email servers while secretary of state, removing a huge shadow hovering over her presidential campaign.
But Comey administered an extraordinary tongue-lashing to Clinton and her aides, rebuking them for being "extremely careless" in the handling of classified information and saying the presumptive Democratic nominee should have known an unclassified email system was no place to conduct sensitive government business.

Comey's decision not to recommend charges likely removes the threat of prosecution in the middle of Clinton's campaign for the presidency, but the political fallout will continue. His explicit criticism of Clinton's conduct offered her enemies a trove of fresh ammunition for their assault on her character, honesty and trustworthiness — one of her biggest vulnerabilities.
In a stunning moment of Washington theater, Comey stepped up to the microphone to deliver the FBI's findings just over two hours before Clinton climbed aboard Air Force One to travel to her first campaign event with President Barack Obama. Adding to the tension, he made clear the White House and the Justice Department "do not know what I am about to say."

"Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information," he said, "there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information."
In the first reaction from the Clinton camp to Comey's statement, spokesman Brian Fallon said that the campaign was "pleased that the career officials handling this case have determined that no further action by the Department is appropriate.

"As the Secretary has long said, it was a mistake to use her personal email and she would not do it again. We are glad that this matter is now resolved."

Clinton has admitted her use of a private email server — discovered during investigation by the House Select Committee — on Benghazi was a mistake. But she has maintained that she never received or passed on information that was marked classified at the time -- a legalistic position that has exposed her to significant political fire.

Comey said that the FBI "painstakingly" combed through every bit of Clinton's multiple servers and mobile devices that they could from her four-year tenure as secretary of state. He described a series of obstacles, including a server that had its software wiped.

The Justice Department is considered highly likely to accept Comey's recommendations. Attorney General Loretta Lynch said as much amid a furor last week over her encounter with former President Bill Clinton on an airport tarmac in Phoenix, which sparked claims by Republicans that a fix was being concocted to ensure Hillary Clinton was not charged.

Comey said of the 30,000 emails that Clinton's team turned over to the State Department, 110 emails in 52 email chains were determined to have contained classified information "at the time they were sent or received," Comey said. Eight of those chains contained information considered "top secret," the highest level of classification.

That's in addition to 2,000 emails that were "upclassified," or determined to have classified information only in hindsight.

jayjay 07-05-2016 07:48 PM

J. Edgar Comey...wonder who HE'S keeping files on?

running coach 07-05-2016 07:53 PM


Originally Posted by jayjay (Post 19456359)
J. Edgar Comey...wonder who HE'S keeping files on?


*looks around surreptitiously*

JohnT 09-18-2019 05:53 PM

Trump today, September 18th, 2019:

"One thing we haven't mentioned is technology, they're wired so we will know if somebody's trying to break through and you may want to discuss that a little bit, General."

General: "Sir, there could be some merit in not discussing that."

Some times, when Dotard gets really open about the treason stuff*, I come back to this thread and laugh, and laugh, and laugh. Then I cry, then I laugh some more, and then I remember:

But Her Emails

... and I somber up, because, yes, her emails.

I note that this thread ended about 10, 20 or so days before Trump publicly implored Russia to release the emails. I also note that those emails... if they ever existed... has yet to be released.

Lol, "perhaps there's some merit in not discussing that", lol.

*my last time here was just a few weeks ago, when he <confirming...> tweeted the Top Secret document that he <checks notes> took pictures with using his <flips page> cell phone.

But that server! Those emails! They proved, er, fit a narrative, didn't they?

JKellyMap 09-19-2019 06:23 AM

Thanks for reviving this. Yes, Trump’s hypocrisy is noteworthy. Richard Parker’s 2016 concerns about Hillary were reasonable and well articulated, but he (and others in the thread) rightly noted it was nothing like the incompetence and childish behavior that a President Trump would display.

(Funny comment in that Twitter link: “His kids have the hardest jobs! They have to try and sell what he gives away.”)

John_Stamos'_Left_Ear 09-19-2019 07:31 AM


Originally Posted by JKellyMap (Post 21869516)
Thanks for reviving this. Yes, Trumpís hypocrisy is noteworthy. Richard Parkerís 2016 concerns about Hillary were reasonable and well articulated, but he (and others in the thread) rightly noted it was nothing like the incompetence and childish behavior that a President Trump would display.

Except that this was part of a bigger trend, articulated by a complicit mainstream media, that every negative about Trump had to be met with an equal negative about Hillary. Oh, you can add a hundred disclaimers, but like the errata on page 67 of the newspaper doesn't change much about the errors in the headline story in the preceding day's newspaper, it all added up to bullshit false equivalence which is the only reason we have president Trump.

I haven't changed my mind about the Clinton email (non) scandal (and neither should you).

guizot 09-19-2019 08:19 AM


Originally Posted by JKellyMap (Post 21869516)
. . . he (and others in the thread) rightly noted it was nothing like the incompetence and childish behavior that a President Trump would display...

The more stridently Trump accuses others of something, the more it turns out he does it himself, to a greater degree. (Such as accusing Obama of playing golf, etc.) This is, indeed, exactly how children behave. We have a six-year-old president.

bobot 09-19-2019 08:33 AM

The orange national security hole in the oval office, and the fact that Americans are *yawn* about it certainly shine a light of perspective on everything else.

JohnT 09-19-2019 09:18 AM

Yup. Treason is OK if a white man does it and doesn't make him unelectable.

Having a private email server is an utter abomination unto God, however, if done by a woman and makes her completely unfit for the office.

JohnT 09-19-2019 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by Richard Parker (Post 19421896)
It is remarkable how many posters can only view this issue through a narrow lense of partisan point-scoring, responding to this thread as if Sean Hannity wrote it. I knew that would describe some responses, but I am mildly shocked at how widespread that sentiment is. It is bad news for our political health.


Originally Posted by JohnT (Post 19422005)
As a Hillary supporter, even more importantly as an Obama and ACA supporter, I have absolutely no idea why this email issue should be worth more to me than the continued survival and expansion of the ACA, than the importance of keeping Trump (or any R) out of the White House, than the importance of having a solidly-progressive Supreme Court.

This thread, despite the tens of thousands of words expended, has not made that case. "Old Lady with power is bad at computer security" is far, far, far less important to me than keeping "you can still get quality health insurance even if you have a pre-existing condition" a rock-solid cornerstone of health insurance provisions.

So it is not "bad news", it is merely a weighing of priorities and long-term objectives for many of us, with those conclusions not matching your own.


Originally Posted by CarnalK (Post 19422042)
Perfect response. Lol. Forget it, Richard Parker. It's Dopertown.

This exchange is particularly mirthful. LOL, "Dopertown", because I recognized a non-issue when I saw it, especially compared to the things listed.

But, no, I was in "Dopertown" because, let's see, I felt that HRC was far less a security risk... and offered a far better slate of policy positions... than Donald Trump, and viewed this bullshit issue through such a lens.

Richard Parker 09-19-2019 11:06 AM

JohnT, what you failed to understand then and fail to understand now is that this thread was not an argument for how you should vote. So framing it all in terms of why this didn't amount to an argument for voting against Clinton was missing the point entirely. Obviously she was a vastly superior candidate on every metric.

This thread was an attempt to identify and defend a norm worth defending against the onslaught of subordinating every goddamn thing to partisan point-scoring. That has, if anything, become an even more important point in the intervening 3 years which you remain on the wrong side of, apparently.

CarnalK 09-19-2019 11:07 AM

Well, I'm sure Richard Parker now regrets voting for Trump over this issue.

Gyrate 09-19-2019 11:17 AM


Originally Posted by JohnT (Post 21869794)
Yup. Treason is OK if a white man does it and doesn't make him unelectable.

Having a private email server is an utter abomination unto God, however, if done by a woman and makes her completely unfit for the office.

Nope. It also has to be done by a Democrat to be a bad thing.

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