Straight Dope Message Board

Straight Dope Message Board (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/index.php)
-   Cafe Society (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Recommend a good American History book...or books (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=408327)

Birdmonster 02-13-2007 03:17 PM

Recommend a good American History book...or books
 
Millions,
I've been monitoring a thread in GD arguing about "the worst president ever" and am constantly struck by how little I actually know about American history. It's a bit embarrassing really. I don't feel I could chime in on a debate like this because I simply can't weigh one president's virtues against another in any critical way. Then I started thinking about all the other stuff I must've forgotten and felt woefully ignorant and then cried in a dark, moldy corner for a few minutes before posting this.

Here's what I want: I want a book that's far superior to the crap foisted on me in high school. I don't want a biased, overly political history either. I don't want something drably factual either (meaning, I'd like it to be well-written and engaging, not a laundry list of facts). I'd like this book (or, if you'd rather, set of books) to give me a good foundation for discussion and understanding of American history. I'm sick of staring slackjawed at Jeopardy Civil War categories, dammit.

(mods: I thought this was the place for this, but move it if I'm wrong here).

RealityChuck 02-13-2007 04:06 PM

For a very lively social history, look for Frederick Lewis Allen's Only Yesterday (the 1920s) and Since Yesterday (the 1930s). They're fun reads.

There's also Eric Frederick Goldman's The Crucial Decade . . . and After (postwar until the 50s).

For the Civil War, there are many good choices, but you should pick up Shelby Foote's The Civil War: A Narrative.

TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW 02-13-2007 04:10 PM

This should be in Cafe Society. Please ask to have it moved.

Check out Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States of America.

Birdmonster 02-13-2007 04:23 PM

Thanks for the tip. Dropped the Mods a line.

Fiddle Peghead 02-13-2007 04:33 PM

Quote:

I don't want a biased, overly political history either. I don't want something drably factual either ...
I'll second the mention of Zinn's "People's History of the United States" as to the second requirement, however, to say that it is somewhat biased and overtly political is an understatment. It certainly gave me a different perspective on anything in American History that I was taught in high school or college, and for that reason alone I consider it an important book that I am glad to have read.

Birdmonster 02-13-2007 04:47 PM

I've read an excerpt of Zinn and, all said, I'd like to make it a suppliment after a more "consensus" text (for lack of a better word, there).

SkipMagic 02-13-2007 05:21 PM

Mod Note:
 
Off to Cafe Society.

Spoke 02-13-2007 07:23 PM

If anyone mentions the word "Loewen" in this thread, I shall burst an artery.

d11218w 02-13-2007 10:46 PM

Taylor Branch's series on the Civil Rights Movement was great: Parting the Waters, Pillar of Fire, and At Canaan's Edge.

Quote:

If anyone mentions the word "Loewen" in this thread, I shall burst an artery.
Say what you will about Loewen, but his book Sundown Towns was an excellent look at an completely overlooked part of American history.

Spoke 02-13-2007 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d11218w
Say what you will about Loewen...

Gaaaahhhh! Ackk!

A word of advice about Loewen. Try checking his endnote citations. After about the third one that doesn't remotely support the point for which it is cited, you will have a different perspective on the man.

Exapno Mapcase 02-13-2007 11:18 PM

A quick course in American History:

Daniel Boorstin - The Americans (3 volumes)

Joseph J. Ellis - Founding Brothers: The Revolutionary Generation

Catherine Drinker Bowen - Miracle at Philadelphia: The Story of the Constitutional Convention

Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. - The Age of Jackson abridged ed.

James J. McPherson - Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era

Ray Ginger - Age of Excess: The United States from 1877 to 1914

Nathan Miller - New World Coming: The 1920s and the Making of Modern America

William Manchester - The Glory and the Dream: A Narrative History of America, 1932-1972

Or, for a completely different approach, you could try the American Presidents Series, from Times Books. These slim biographies, only around 150 pages, cover one president each. Around 30 volumes have been published. They range from the dull but good to the lively and insightful, even though the range of authors is extremely eclectic. [From John Dean on Harding (surprisingly good) to E. L. Doctorow on Lincoln.] They would be a faster read and you'd get a good political history and feel for how each president got to the White House and what he did when he got there and why. The series is weak on social, cultural, industrial, and technological history, of course, which is not at all true for the first set of books I gave, but you need to decide what you want to start with.

magellan01 02-13-2007 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VCO3
This should be in Cafe Society. Please ask to have it moved.

Check out Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States of America.

If you read this er, recollection, of history, make sure you read plenty of other stuff, as it is written from a particular viewpoint (leftist). As you said that you di9dn't want soemthing biased, you might want to pass on this. For a general overview I'd recommend A History of The American People, by Paul Johnson.

Also:
First Salute, by Barbara Tuchman (America's beginnings by a very well respected historian)
The Scents of Eden, by Charles Corn (the spice trade, culminating in an agreement between the Dutch and the English about Manhattan)
D-Day, by Stephen Ambrose (WWII)
Undaunted Courage, by Stephen Ambrose (Lewis & Clark)
Nothing Like It In The World, by Stephen Ambrose
I Buried My Hear at Wounded Knee, by Dee Brown (Native Americans and the settling of America)
T. R.: The Last Romantic, by H. W. Brands (Teddy Roosevelt)
Titan, by Ron Chernow (John D. Rockefeller)
Alexander Hamilton, by Ron Chernow
John Adams, by David McCullough
George Washington, by Willard Sterne Randall
1776, by David McCullough
The Battle for New York, by Barnet Schecter

Enjoy.

Siam Sam 02-13-2007 11:30 PM

Anything by David McCullough. And "The Penguin History of the United States of America," by Hugh Brogan (a Brit).

I used to like Zinn's "People's History" back in my younger days, but as I grew older, it started coming across more as a too-far leftie with a chip on his shoulder.

Walloon 02-13-2007 11:38 PM

History of the American Frontier, by Frederic L. Paxson.
The Atlantic Migration, 1607-1860: A History of the Continuing Settlement of the United States, by Marcus Lee Hansen.
The Age of Jackson, by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.
The Republican Era: 1869-1901, by Leonard D. White.
The Americans: The Democratic Experience, by Daniel J. Boorstin.
The Impending Crisis, 1841-1867, by David M. Potter.
Parting the Waters: America in the King Years, 1954-1963, by Taylor Branch.
Freedom From Fear: The American People in Depression and War, 1929-1945, by David M. Kennedy.

Some of these are out of print, but a good library should have all of them.

Bridget Burke 02-14-2007 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magellan01
If you read this er, recollection, of history, make sure you read plenty of other stuff, as it is written from a particular viewpoint (leftist). As you said that you di9dn't want soemthing biased, you might want to pass on this. For a general overview I'd recommend A History of The American People, by Paul Johnson......

Howard Zinn (author of the "er, recollection of history") does speak from the Left. According to many Amazon reviewers, Paul Johnson speaks from the Right.
http://www.amazon.com/History-Americ...e=UTF8&s=books

There are lots of good suggestions here. You'll probably need to read more than one book.

Spoke 02-14-2007 09:47 AM

I have to confess I don't know what survey of American history to recommend, since I'm usually reading books that are focused on a particular aspect of American history. So I'll leave survey recommendations to others. (You are right to be wary of politically slanted histories, though. There are plenty that slant strongly left or right.)

Joseph J. Ellis (already mentioned) has written several books on members of the Revolutionary generation: Founding Brothers, American Sphinx: The Character of Thomas Jefferson, His Excellency (George Washington). Those are all entertaining and informative reads.

You mention the Civil War. If you've got a LOT of time on your hands, you could read Shelby Foote's The Civil War: A Narrative (3 Volume Set). If that much reading is daunting, I recommend Ken Burns's excellent (and very entertaining) documentary The Civil War.

Robert V. Remini has written several excellent books on Andrew Jackson and his era. If, for example, you want to understand the Trail of Tears and how it happened, you might try Andrew Jackson and His Indian Wars.

CalMeacham 02-14-2007 11:11 AM

These themselves aren't good history books, but I think of them in the same vein as Jearl D. Walker's "Flying Circus of Physics" -- they're collections of odd but interesting details about history, with the references so you can look them up in the original journals or books. Again, like the physics book, they're NOT just collections of obscure and entertaining miscellanea that are ultimately of little use -- reading this stuff and looking it up will actually give you a deeper and more thorough understanding of what's really important. But you won't get it if you only read the compendia themselves.

The books are Richard Schenkman's Legends, Lies, and Cherished Myths of American History and the unfortunately titled I Love Paul Revere, Whether He Rode or Not (that title is a quote from Warren G. Harding). By the time Schenmkman wrote Legends, Lies, and Cherished Myths of World History he was clearly running out of steam -- it's not as good as the others. similar comment on his first book, One-Night Stands with American History. But they're fun reads. Schenkman had a brief showe on, I think, the Discovery Channel. and there's an audiotape of Gary Owens reading LLaCMoAH, but he sounds as if he didn't see the material before, and frequently doesn't believe it. Plus it's abridged, and, of course, lacks the references. but Owens has a great voice.
\

http://www.amazon.com/Legends-Cheris...e=UTF8&s=books


http://www.amazon.com/Love-Paul-Reve...e=UTF8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/Legends-Cheris...e=UTF8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/Legends-Cheris...e=UTF8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/One-Night-Amer...e=UTF8&s=books

Fiddle Peghead 02-14-2007 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magellan01
If you read this er, recollection, of history, make sure you read plenty of other stuff, as it is written from a particular viewpoint (leftist).

If this advice is relevant (and I think it is), shouldn't birdmonster also ask other dopers to go back and state what particular viewpoint the books they have recommended here are written from, before he decides which if any of them to read?

Exapno Mapcase 02-14-2007 01:13 PM

Most history books are not written from a particular viewpoint unless you yourself have one that colors your view of neutral. Zinn and Johnson are among the few well known to the public who work from a consciously partisan stance.

Older history books do tend to be written from what was then neutral but is today obviously skewed: white males conquered the country through heroic feats. More modern books do tend to avoid this with varying degrees of success but it would be hard to encapsulate how well a book achieves this. And because it is adored by the public, Great Man works are in vogue once more, as evidenced in the books by Ron Chernow and David McCullough. (Chernow is the most boring writer in the world, IMO. McCullough can write rings around him blindfolded.)

I tried consciously in my list to give books that were old and new, written by academics and amateurs, and biased toward narrative history rather than hagiographies to get around various biases. But you can't start someone who hasn't read any history with just a few books and not include a host of hidden assumptions that can only be recognized and accounted for by years of reading.

That's the basic problem behind any of these "give me something to read" threads. The OP gets dozens and dozens of recommendations when only one or two are required and there is no good way to choose among them. I always wonder a year later what if anything has come out of them.

magellan01 02-15-2007 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead
If this advice is relevant (and I think it is), shouldn't birdmonster also ask other dopers to go back and state what particular viewpoint the books they have recommended here are written from, before he decides which if any of them to read?

You make a good point.

Speaking for myself, the Paul Johnson I mentioned book is right of center, (but not as far from it as Zinn). Myself, I left out many more skewed takes on history. As good as I think they might be, I think that someone should get a good overall view of history. Afterwards, they'll be able to read the more ideological takes with a better understandeing and appreciation. Same with the types of books offered by CalMeachem. Interesting, often fun, reads, but a basic grounding in history should come first. Of course, YMMV.

Captain Amazing 02-16-2007 10:14 AM

If you're looking for a Civil War history that's less daunting than Shelby Foote's. youi might also want to look at James McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom".

Birdmonster 02-16-2007 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead
If this advice is relevant (and I think it is), shouldn't birdmonster also ask other dopers to go back and state what particular viewpoint the books they have recommended here are written from, before he decides which if any of them to read?

I'd of course appreciate it if anyone clued me in as to which particular bias their book(s) champion. Of course, before I really hunker down and buy a few (if it wasn't obvious from the get-go [it was], it is now: I'll need a whole bunch of books), I was planning on doing some research in addition to the recommendations here. Apparently, some strong feelings on this Loewen fellow and I can't tell you fact one.

But so far: thanks a million. This is really valuable for me as a starting block. When the thread dies down, I'll let you know which ones seemed the most appropriate.

Exapno Mapcase: Thanks for the clarification and the oh so brief summation of historical biases. I appreciate you gifting me a wide range of possibilities here.

spoke-: Your comments on Andrew Jackson were among the first reminders that I knew squat about American History. I still think we should replace him (MLK!), but, hey, thought you should know.

I'd like to do a personal howdy to all, but my boss is giving me the hairy eyeball. Until soon.

magellan01 02-16-2007 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase
(Chernow is the most boring writer in the world, IMO. McCullough can write rings around him blindfolded.)

Wow. I disagree. I've read two Chernow books, Titan and Alexander Hamilton, and really enjoyed them, particularly the AE book.

Kkrose 02-16-2007 01:48 PM

Don't Know Much About History By Kenneth C. Davis. Is the book I usually recommend to people asking what you are asking. It's a very readable overall history of the United States. It's meant for people who aren't big time history buffs but want to know more. In my opinion.

Intelligently Designed 02-16-2007 05:06 PM

Rewriting/embellishing/falsifying history is also a part of history. Reading a history book written in, say, 1912 might not tell you much about what really happened before that, but it may tell you a lot about how things were in 1912...

DSYoungEsq 02-16-2007 05:45 PM

Another good author to learn about the Civil War from is Bruce Catton. He wrote a three-volume work for the Centennial, and has numerous single volume works covering the war from various perspectives. He has a very interesting way of getting at the story by looking at personalities.

RikWriter 02-16-2007 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VCO3
This should be in Cafe Society. Please ask to have it moved.

Check out Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States of America.


He said he DIDN'T want an overtly political and biased book. :rolleyes:

Spoke 02-16-2007 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdmonster
spoke-: Your comments on Andrew Jackson were among the first reminders that I knew squat about American History. I still think we should replace him (MLK!), but, hey, thought you should know.

Thanks for the shout-out Birdmonster.

And I don't necessarily disagree about Jackson and the $20 bill. I just don't think Jackson was a moustache-twirling villain who awoke each morning wondering what new evil he could inflict on the poor innocent Indian. History is (much) more complicated than that. For one thing, Jackson didn't have a moustache.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kkrose
Don't Know Much About History By Kenneth C. Davis. Is the book I usually recommend to people asking what you are asking. It's a very readable overall history of the United States. It's meant for people who aren't big time history buffs but want to know more. In my opinion.

I haven't read this book, but I have friends who used Don't Know Much About History as a starting point. Some of the Amazon reviews suggest a strong liberal bias though, so be careful. (And I say that as a liberal myself.)

It's really hard to find history written with no bias at all. Everybody has some bias that shows through in their work. The best thing to do, really, is to read two or three different perspectives on the same event(s) and then draw your own conclusions.

Birdmonster 02-16-2007 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoke-
Thanks for the shout-out Birdmonster.

I haven't read this book, but I have friends who used Don't Know Much About History as a starting point. Some of the Amazon reviews suggest a strong liberal bias though, so be careful. (And I say that as a liberal myself.)

Credit where credit's due.

I've actually been leaning towards this one for a variety of reasons. First off, Kkrose came out of the dark cave of lurkerdom to recommend it. Always worth something, methinks. Secondly, you're right: I'm realizing there is no bias-free history. I'm thinking about trying to offset it with something fairly conservative, but not overtly so. Paul Johnson's book sounds like a good start. Neither sound as far from center as Zinn, who, while interesting, isn't what I want to learn about right now. I don't want to play the outraged liberal at parties. I want to get an overview, find what I feel is the most interesting stuff in our history, and get expertice on those certain eras & movements. There are seriously gaping holes in my knowledge right now. Plus, I want to slay my roommates at Jeopardy. I'm petty like that.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:31 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2019 STM Reader, LLC.