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-   -   Virginia gov. yearbook page has Klan and blackface pictures (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=870014)

Bijou Drains 02-01-2019 04:05 PM

Virginia gov. yearbook page has Klan and blackface pictures
 
I don't think this is going to end well for him assuming he had control over the material on the page .

https://pilotonline.com/news/governm...d70e09b50.html

Procrustus 02-01-2019 04:09 PM

1984? That would have been offensive in 1954. Jesus, what's wrong with people?

Bijou Drains 02-01-2019 04:13 PM

talk is that he is the guy in blackface. He is a Dem. and the Lt. Governor is also a Dem if he were to quit.

JohnT 02-01-2019 04:23 PM

Man, GOP oppo research is for shit. No wonder they have to buy it from Russia!

Anyway, Northam's gotta go, especially if it is him and/or he had editorial control of this page and/or he attended the fucking party.

Fuck it. He should just go.

Thudlow Boink 02-01-2019 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Procrustus (Post 21465272)
1984? That would have been offensive in 1954. Jesus, what's wrong with people?

I know, right? Who wears plaid pants like that?

Snarky_Kong 02-01-2019 04:34 PM

If he's either person or if he chose the picture he should resign.

Crazy.

Bijou Drains 02-01-2019 04:37 PM

med school says the pictures are legit and the publication was student produced.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b08710475367de

octopus 02-01-2019 04:42 PM

Well, well, well...

So much dumb stuff preserved for eternity.

Bijou Drains 02-01-2019 04:45 PM

have to wonder if this turned up in a simple google search , if so that does show really bad research before the election by the GOP. Or maybe they just started contacting members of his class to see if anyone had this kind of document.

Procrustus 02-01-2019 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bijou Drains (Post 21465347)
have to wonder if this turned up in a simple google search , if so that does show really bad research before the election by the GOP. Or maybe they just started contacting members of his class to see if anyone had this kind of document.

Well, it probably wouldn't have struck the GOP as offensive.

Royal Nonesutch 02-01-2019 05:19 PM

The Good Doctor is probably feeling a mite sick about right now.

Hopefully they can "keep him comfortable" while his political career is lovingly, humanely terminated...

F. U. Shakespeare 02-01-2019 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bijou Drains (Post 21465347)
have to wonder if this turned up in a simple google search , if so that does show really bad research before the election by the GOP. Or maybe they just started contacting members of his class to see if anyone had this kind of document.

It doesn't make the Dems research look very good either.

Thudlow Boink 02-01-2019 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong (Post 21465322)
If he's either person or if he chose the picture he should resign.

This was 35 years ago when he was young and in school. I'm not sure it tells us much about the man he is today (but the way he responds to it will)—and that's what I think should determine whether or not he should resign.

Rhodes 02-01-2019 05:31 PM

State Senate Minority Leader Richard L. Saslaw is defending him. To paraphrase, "Hey, it's not nice to look at people's pasts. Sure wouldn't want anyone paying attention to whatever I did as a young adult!"

HurricaneDitka 02-01-2019 05:32 PM

That guy is having a BAD week.

bobot 02-01-2019 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bijou Drains (Post 21465259)
I don't think this is going to end well for him assuming he had control over the material on the page .

https://pilotonline.com/news/governm...d70e09b50.html

Well ho-lee fucking shit. That was my first thought. Second? "The fucking school agreed to put that in the yearbook"??
Anyway, fuck that guy. Sorry he's a Democrat in Redville, but fuck him.

Procrustus 02-01-2019 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink (Post 21465405)
This was 35 years ago when he was young and in school. I'm not sure it tells us much about the man he is today (but the way he responds to it will)—and that's what I think should determine whether or not he should resign.

Maybe. I'll try to keep an open mind. But I was in school 35 years ago and would never in a million years have 1) dressed like that and 2) thought it so benign that I would allow a photo like that to be put in a yearbook.

People in the 1980s really did have a clue about racism and shit. Or should have.

jayjay 02-01-2019 05:56 PM

My first reaction was "He was so young and it was so long ago."

My second reaction was "But Kavanaugh..."

He should probably resign, and I say this as a hyperpartisan Democrat. While also acknowledging that there would be no possibility of that happening if he were Republican.

Bijou Drains 02-01-2019 06:03 PM

every Dr. in the yearbook will be contacted by the media if they can be located. They will probably have reporters at their offices 1st thing Monday

Snarky_Kong 02-01-2019 06:04 PM

He admitted that he's one of the people in the photo.

Get out please. Jesus Christ.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.a16387890d80

Royal Nonesutch 02-01-2019 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong (Post 21465439)
He admitted that he's one of the people in the photo.

Well, with personal integrity like that, it's clear that the "White House" is a place where he would feel very comfortable indeed...

FlikTheBlue 02-01-2019 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobot (Post 21465415)
Well ho-lee fucking shit. That was my first thought. Second? "The fucking school agreed to put that in the yearbook"??
Anyway, fuck that guy. Sorry he's a Democrat in Redville, but fuck him.

Agreed that he should resign, but Virginia is no longer Redville, and the governorship should be safely blue assuming the Democrats run a decent candidate in the next election.

jayjay 02-01-2019 06:17 PM

Not to mention that the Lt. Gov. is also a Democrat, so if he does resign as he should the gov will still be Dem.

Northern Piper 02-01-2019 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465342)
Well, well, well...

So much dumb stuff preserved for eternity.

And that's before iPhones!

Thudlow Boink 02-01-2019 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Procrustus (Post 21465417)
Maybe. I'll try to keep an open mind. But I was in school 35 years ago and would never in a million years have 1) dressed like that and 2) thought it so benign that I would allow a photo like that to be put in a yearbook.

People in the 1980s really did have a clue about racism and shit. Or should have.

But that's not my point. What you're saying isn't relevant to what I said. It wasn't about the excusability or okayness of what he did—it was about who he is today.

Condemning someone for being racist (or racially insensitive or whatever) is one thing. Condemning someone for having been racist decades ago, if they've grown up and wised up since then, is something else.

bobot 02-01-2019 06:26 PM

That's true, and if he'd like to prove it he can quit his high paying pension including government job, and volunteer his services in impoverished areas. That's how he demonstrates what he believes rather than pay lip service to what he wants you to believe he believes.

Typo Negative 02-01-2019 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink (Post 21465468)
Condemning someone for being racist (or racially insensitive or whatever) is one thing. Condemning someone for having been racist decades ago, if they've grown up and wised up since then, is something else.

I agree. What kind of public servant has he been? Judge him by that. Do we believe in rehabilitation or do we just pay lip service to the idea? Do we believe that people can change or not?

Blank Slate 02-01-2019 06:32 PM

Is it a great opportunity for the Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax? Virginia governors cannot serve successive terms. Should Northam resign and Fairfax take over, would he be eligible to run in 2021? If so, that would be advantageous.

Kolak of Twilo 02-01-2019 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayjay (Post 21465464)
Not to mention that the Lt. Gov. is also a Democrat, so if he does resign as he should the gov will still be Dem.

Actually, Lt. Gov Justin Fairfax does seem to be a pretty decent guy. And I bet there won't be any pictures of him dressed up in Klan gear in his yearbook or anywhere else.

asahi 02-01-2019 06:35 PM

I'm a democrat who wants democrats to win as much power as possible, but Northam is fvcked. There's no way he can recover. If this had been discovered during the campaign and if voters had voted for him in spite of it, that would have been one thing. But there's no way we can support Northam now. The Commonwealth can do better.

ITR champion 02-01-2019 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayjay (Post 21465431)
My first reaction was "He was so young and it was so long ago."

My second reaction was "But Kavanaugh..."

He should probably resign, and I say this as a hyperpartisan Democrat. While also acknowledging that there would be no possibility of that happening if he were Republican.

Since I'm not a member of either major political party, I'm not obligated to take a partisan stance. I don't care what was in Brett Kavanaugh's high school yearbook. I don't care what was in Ralph Northam's med school yearbook. Why should I care?

I know plenty of people who said or did stupid or offensive things while in high school, college, or grad school, and then grew up and became model citizens. I don't see any advantage to anyone in creating a culture where the dumbest thing that a person said in their youth circles back and harms them 30 years later. Who benefits from that?

Procrustus 02-01-2019 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink (Post 21465468)
But that's not my point. What you're saying isn't relevant to what I said. It wasn't about the excusability or okayness of what he did—it was about who he is today.

Condemning someone for being racist (or racially insensitive or whatever) is one thing. Condemning someone for having been racist decades ago, if they've grown up and wised up since then, is something else.

As I said, I'd keep an open mind. Are there really people who were that clueless as young adults who have now seen the light? I'm trying to imagine what he could say to convince me he realizes how awful that was and how he's changed.

Dacien 02-01-2019 06:51 PM

My first reaction is that plucking these photos from time and place, 40 years ago, and parading them around as if that's the same person he is today is very distasteful. I think the whole practice is unseemly. However, 1984 wasn't particularly a time when it wouldn't have been outrageous then, either.

Hard to make a call on this. One thing I do know is, if this had been even a low-level staffer in the current administration, there would certainly be much, much less reasonable discussion about this than we have now.

Manda JO 02-01-2019 06:54 PM

If he were 16, I could understand. Teenagers are super dumb and they don't question the norms around them. But Medical School? That's not being a dumb kid. Jesus.

RTFirefly 02-01-2019 06:58 PM

What's really necessary here is that the VA Democratic Party shouldn't wait to see whether Northam resigns on his own, before getting together a delegation to tell him he needs to do so at his earliest convenience.

It's time to step up and deal with it in a way that unarguably puts it behind us. Or, to put it cynically, try to figure out how to flip the VA Senate and House of Delegates this fall (yeah, 2019 is election year in Virginia; it's always an election year in Virginia) with only lukewarm turnout by people of color.

monstro 02-01-2019 07:03 PM

He's my gov. I like what he's been doing, especially with regards to the Chesapeake Bay (not that that's my bread and butter or anything :)).

That said, this is not good at all. If he had browned up his face to look like, say, Eddie Murphy, I wouldn't give a good gotdamn. But this isn't innocent cosplay. That picture shows a couple of edgelords trying to get laughs off of racism and terrorism, from an audience that was overwhelmingly privileged enough to never have to worry about those things. And now one of those edgelords has been rewarded with the governorship.

I don't want him to resign, but I know why others are calling for it. The racial climate of the country is not great right now. If we have another Charlottesville this year, it's not going to be cute when the governor calls for us all to get along and those who don't want that redirect everyone's attention to that yearbook picture. The Dems also need a clean house to lie in stark contrast with the GOP's dirty one. As long as there are dust bunnies under the bed, the GOP can play the "both sides" card.

Northam has done a great job in the little time he's had. He can take pride in this if he does step down.

RTFirefly 02-01-2019 07:41 PM

"Coonman"? Jesus H. on a unicycle.

(And how did I not know there was a town in VA called "Onancock"? :eek:)

VA NAACP is calling for his resignation.

Resign, dude. It's over.

Miller 02-01-2019 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 21465559)
"Coonman"? Jesus H. on a unicycle.

(And how did I not know there was a town in VA called "Onancock"? :eek:)

VA NAACP is calling for his resignation.

Resign, dude. It's over.

Okay, what does "DYKES" mean in this context? Anyone know?

manson1972 02-01-2019 07:52 PM

I don't understand how none of this came up when he was running.

Riemann 02-01-2019 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typo Negative (Post 21465476)
I agree. What kind of public servant has he been? Judge him by that. Do we believe in rehabilitation or do we just pay lip service to the idea? Do we believe that people can change or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Procrustus (Post 21465505)
As I said, I'd keep an open mind. Are there really people who were that clueless as young adults who have now seen the light? I'm trying to imagine what he could say to convince me he realizes how awful that was and how he's changed.

If this was just an isolated (if utterly clueless) mistake, he can be rehabilitated. His life isn't over, he isn't going to prison.

But I don't see how he can be rehabilitated as governor. The job is not all about him. It's about the people he represents - and they surely have a right to transparent certainty about anyone in such a position.

It feels pretty pathetic to be talking about ethical standards for those in public office given who we have in the White House. But perhaps that just makes it all the more important for Dems to hold the line.

RTFirefly 02-01-2019 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manson1972 (Post 21465573)
I don't understand how none of this came up when he was running.

Gillespie is probably already on the phone to his oppo research firm, demanding his money back.

Riemann 02-01-2019 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manson1972 (Post 21465573)
I don't understand how none of this came up when he was running.

Josh Lyman would have been all over it.

iiandyiiii 02-01-2019 07:58 PM

I voted for him and like the job he's done so far, but he should step down.

Dacien 02-01-2019 08:02 PM

I just don't think I can jump on board with asking him to step down over an almost 40-year-old photo of him in blackface/in a KKK hood in what is clearly a jocular display. I say this as a staunch conservative. If he had been pictured at a KKK rally, or had been wearing blackface at some kind of political rally, there's a stronger argument there, but this is a yearbook photo.

Again, I say this as a pretty strong conservative. If the new standard is to judge our elected officials on tasteless photos from decades upon decades ago in context that clearly doesn't represent true evil, we're all in for a rough time. We need to be reasonable about this.

Blank Slate 02-01-2019 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller (Post 21465568)
Okay, what does "DYKES" mean in this context? Anyone know?

Here ya go.

What the hell is a coonman?

iiandyiiii 02-01-2019 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacien (Post 21465588)
I just don't think I can jump on board with asking him to step down over an almost 40-year-old photo of him in blackface/in a KKK hood in what is clearly a jocular display. I say this as a staunch conservative. If he had been pictured at a KKK rally, or had been wearing blackface at some kind of political rally, there's a stronger argument there, but this is a yearbook photo.

Again, I say this as a pretty strong conservative. If the new standard is to judge our elected officials on tasteless photos from decades upon decades ago, we're all in for a rough time. We need to be reasonable about this.

Maybe in a vacuum, but in today's America? With a white supremacist tolerator and enabler in the WH, and a deadly white supremacist attack just about a year ago in VA? Virginia needs a governor with the moral authority to oppose white supremacism as effectively as possible.

Riemann 02-01-2019 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blank Slate (Post 21465595)
What the hell is a coonman?

It's presumably a nickname he acquired as a direct result of that outfit.

asahi 02-01-2019 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii (Post 21465584)
I voted for him and like the job he's done so far, but he should step down.

Yes, and it's because he withheld this information during the campaign.

asahi 02-01-2019 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii (Post 21465596)
Maybe in a vacuum, but in today's America? With a white supremacist tolerator and enabler in the WH, and a deadly white supremacist attack just about a year ago in VA? Virginia needs a governor with the moral authority to oppose white supremacism as effectively as possible.

Agreed.

Dacien 02-01-2019 08:32 PM

This whole thing is just ghoulish the more I think about it. With future elected officials having grown up saturated in social media, we're in for a heck of ride.

flurb 02-01-2019 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink (Post 21465405)
This was 35 years ago when he was young and in school.

C'mon, he was in medical school. He would have been 24 or 25 when this was published. That's well beyond the "youthful indiscretion" threshold.

galen ubal 02-01-2019 08:43 PM

According to his Wiki page, he was born in 1959. So, 24 or 25 years old indeed.

Dude needs to go.

asahi 02-01-2019 08:56 PM

I vote dem and I am dem, but I didn't ever think I'd support Dixie Crat.

Superdude 02-01-2019 08:58 PM

To me, it's about being consistent with the outrage. If this had been a Republican politician, many of us (myself included) would have been calling for him to resign.

I have no dog in the actual fight, as I don't live in Virginia, but he should step down, and the sooner, the better.

Dacien 02-01-2019 08:59 PM

People are floating the conspiracy theory that Northam disrupted the abortion narrative with his remarks on the subject, and so suddenly this photo has surfaced to get rid of him. Igniting the passions of the pro-life segment with "infantacide" and "late-term abortion" talking points is undesirable, the theory goes.

Super tinfoil hat stuff, but interesting nonetheless. Really odd that this photo never surfaced until now.

El_Kabong 02-01-2019 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asahi (Post 21465610)
Yes, and it's because he withheld this information during the campaign.

Yeah. He never mentioned this little ticking time bomb to his campaign staff? He did, and they said "Yeah, go ahead and run anyway"? He forgot all about it until just now? Only the first one sounds remotely plausible, at least to me.

I don't live in Virginia, so my opinion doesn't count, but if I did, I'd want him to resign. I'm sure there's at least one other person qualified for the position who doesn't have that baggage weighing him down.

Chronos 02-01-2019 09:11 PM

Quote:

Quoth Dacien:

This whole thing is just ghoulish the more I think about it. With future elected officials having grown up saturated in social media, we're in for a heck of ride.
No doubt a lot of people will be filtered out by what they've said and done on social media. Is that a bad thing? Our elected officials are only a very small fraction of the population, and they should be better than us as a whole. It's inherent in the concept that we must filter the population very aggressively in order to choose our leaders. Is this a worse filter than whatever else we'd be using?

Yes, obviously this was meant as a joke. And what that tells us is that he's the kind of guy who finds this sort of thing funny. Given the choice of a politician who finds this sort of thing funny or one who doesn't, I'll take the latter.

Dacien 02-01-2019 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos (Post 21465656)
No doubt a lot of people will be filtered out by what they've said and done on social media. Is that a bad thing? Our elected officials are only a very small fraction of the population, and they should be better than us as a whole. It's inherent in the concept that we must filter the population very aggressively in order to choose our leaders. Is this a worse filter than whatever else we'd be using?

Yes, obviously this was meant as a joke. And what that tells us is that he's the kind of guy who finds this sort of thing funny. Given the choice of a politician who finds this sort of thing funny or one who doesn't, I'll take the latter.

Yeah but it was 35 years ago. I'm super not comfortable with this standard. Context matters. Like, I'm super pro-life with reasonable concessions (12 weeks seems reasonable to me) so there's no love lost if this guy goes, but are we really going to judge 59-year-old Governor Ralph Northam on 24-year-old Med Student Ralph Northam? Are we not allowed to view individuals on how they've behaved and acted for all of their adult lives save a few years?

It's extremely disquieting. We pluck a photo out from 35 years ago and that wipes away everything he stands for and everything he fights for? His job as a Governor and his work on the issues in that role comes down to a 35-year-old tasteless photo?

I'd be making these same arguments for a Republican or a Democrat.

Riemann 02-01-2019 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacien (Post 21465646)
People are floating the conspiracy theory that Northam disrupted the abortion narrative with his remarks on the subject, and so suddenly this photo has surfaced to get rid of him. Igniting the passions of the pro-life segment with "infantacide" and "late-term abortion" talking points is undesirable, the theory goes.

Super tinfoil hat stuff, but interesting nonetheless. Really odd that this photo never surfaced until now.

I'm not sure I follow - is the conspiracy theory that a pro-choice Democrat has always known about this, and has now put it out there because they don't like how his comments have influenced the debate?

Maybe that's "tinfoil hat" stuff, I don't know, but it doesn't seem any stranger than the fact that it didn't come to light when he was running.

Dacien 02-01-2019 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riemann (Post 21465671)
I'm not sure I follow - is the theory that a pro-choice Democrat has always known about this, and has now put it out there because they don't like how his comments have influenced the debate?

Basically. The major cog that seems to be turning the machine is the fact that this photo only just came out now, days after he ignited a firestorm of debate over "infanticide". And that discussion really shifted the abortion debate into an extreme area that favors pro-life talking points.

black rabbit 02-01-2019 09:38 PM

Option 1: Mea maxima culpa. A full and complete accounting of the facts, and let the chips fall where they may.

Option 2: Resign.

Option 2 is probably the path of least resistance. What I've seen to date doesn't even come close to Option 1.

octopus 02-01-2019 09:43 PM

I’m in favor of the concept of redemption. If he’s doing a good job now, according to the voters of VA, then stuff that happened 20+ years ago should be looked at as what it is. Youthful foolishness. It was very poor taste but it wasn’t criminal.

With cell phones, social media, and an eternal internet I think we should be a bit more nonchalant about decades old or even a decade old incident of jackassery.

Dacien 02-01-2019 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465693)
I’m in favor of the concept of redemption. If he’s doing a good job now, according to the voters of VA, then stuff that happened 20+ years ago should be looked at as what it is. Youthful foolishness. It was very poor taste but it wasn’t criminal.

With cell phones, social media, and an eternal internet I think we should be a bit more nonchalant about decades old or even a decade old incident of jackassery.

If you were to judge me even by who was just ten years ago, you'd be looking at a completely different person. I'm embarrassed, regretful, and ashamed of some of the mistakes I've made just ten years ago! If I was fighting for what I believed in today with a new outlook, in a more mature and well-adjusted place, and somebody brought up some awful thing I did in my twenties, I'd feel deeply wronged. That's not who I am today, that's not what I stand for, and I distance myself from those mistakes completely, and have moved forward from them.

This is called being human. And our elected officials are no different.

Riemann 02-01-2019 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacien (Post 21465699)
If you were to judge me even by who was just ten years ago, you'd be looking at a completely different person. I'm embarrassed, regretful, and ashamed of some of the mistakes I've made just ten years ago! If I was fighting for what I believed in today with a new outlook, in a more mature and well-adjusted place, and somebody brought up some awful thing I did in my twenties, I'd feel deeply wronged. That's not who I am today, that's not what I stand for, and I distance myself from those mistakes completely, and have moved forward from them.

This is called being human. And our elected officials are no different.

And if you spoke so honestly about this before you were elected, I might well vote for you.

Inigo Montoya 02-01-2019 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayjay (Post 21465431)
My first reaction was "He was so young and it was so long ago."

My second reaction was "But Kavanaugh..."

Well, exactly. They both did rude shit decades ago. One seems to have grown out of the insensitivity, and the other not so much.

octopus 02-01-2019 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riemann (Post 21465705)
And if you spoke so honestly about this before you were elected, I might well vote for you.

If politicians have to recollect every affair, every off color joke or comment, every poor choice in robes and pointy hats we might be in for a long series of confessionals. Imagine if everyone’s internet search history was public knowledge. :eek::eek::eek:

AK84 02-01-2019 10:08 PM

This is Governor Post Birth Abortion’s?
Not the smartest is he.

Defensive Indifference 02-01-2019 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya (Post 21465711)
Well, exactly. They both did rude shit decades ago. One seems to have grown out of the insensitivity, and the other not so much.

Yeah, Kavanaugh was a douchebag kid who grew up to be a douchebag adult and lied about being a douchebag kid. Northam at least admitted (mostly, but without saying which person is him) to being a douchebag and offered an actual apology, not an I'm-sorry-if-you-were-offended fake apology. I lean toward thinking he should resign, but I see Northam and Kavanaugh as very different.

ITR champion 02-01-2019 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos (Post 21465656)
No doubt a lot of people will be filtered out by what they've said and done on social media. Is that a bad thing? Our elected officials are only a very small fraction of the population, and they should be better than us as a whole. It's inherent in the concept that we must filter the population very aggressively in order to choose our leaders. Is this a worse filter than whatever else we'd be using?

Yes, obviously this was meant as a joke. And what that tells us is that he's the kind of guy who finds this sort of thing funny. Given the choice of a politician who finds this sort of thing funny or one who doesn't, I'll take the latter.

Recall that a few weeks ago, the Academy Awards chose Kevin Hart to host the Oscars this year. And shortly thereafter, he was dropped from the job due to some bad jokes on Twitter about homosexuality. And since then, they haven't been able to find anyone to take his place.

If a certain job means having every stupid or offensive thing a person has ever posted online or made public anywhere else will be dragged out in public at great length, and then used to wreck one's career, the number of people willing to do that job may suddenly drop. To zero, in some cases.

If the Democrats decide that every poorly chosen, decades-old joke by one of their politicians should be a career ender, they might likewise find that the number of people wanting to run for office as Democrats will decrease.

Riemann 02-01-2019 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465712)
If politicians have to recollect every affair, every off color joke or comment....

Slippery slope nonsense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465712)
...every poor choice in robes and pointy hats we might be in for a long series of confessionals.

Perhaps it seems overly strict to you, but yes I do think any prospective candidate for high office should disclose to the voters every time they have shown such appalling judgment as to dress up in blackface and KKK outfit, pose for a photo, and be proud of the funny joke.

Dacien 02-01-2019 10:25 PM

There's a lot of hot takes out there, but this Twitter thread is worth your time.

https://twitter.com/RobGeorge/status...29774500057089

octopus 02-01-2019 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riemann (Post 21465729)
Slippery slope nonsense.



Perhaps it seems overly strict to you, but yes I do think any prospective candidate for high office should disclose to the voters every time they have shown such appalling judgment as to dress up in blackface and KKK outfit, pose for a photo, and be proud of the funny joke.

It’s not slippery slope at all. People really aren’t thinking through the combination of eternal storage of video, text, and audio; global dissemination with social media; and demands for purity.

I don’t think it’s overly strict as it is counterproductive. If people don’t feel there is redemption, especially for something that’s just very poor taste and isn’t illegal, then you run the risk of people who decide it’s not worth the effort to evolve. It’s a bit like prison. Do you want prison to strictly punish and be a place for retribution or should it be a place for rehabilitation?

octopus 02-01-2019 10:55 PM

Now CNN supposedly listed the governor as a Republican. You know that was no accident.

Riemann 02-01-2019 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465764)
Now CNN supposedly listed the governor as a Republican. You know that was no accident.

Right, definitely not an accident. Because nobody has spotted it, their clever ruse has pulled the wool over our eyes, and now everyone believes he's a Republican.

boytyperanma 02-01-2019 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465764)
Now CNN supposedly listed the governor as a Republican. You know that was no accident.

It probably was, when I saw the headline "Calls for resignation as VA governor apologizes for racist year book photo" I assumed he was a Republican. Republicans usually have all the 'best' racists.

We'll see if CNN makes an on air correction or if they go the FOX News route and mention it on a web page somewhere or in some cases never make a correction at all.


I don't care if it was over 30 years ago. That means he's had over 30 years to apologize. Instead he 'forgot' about it or actively buried it. He's only chosen to apologize after he was caught. He needs to go.

galen ubal 02-01-2019 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465764)
Now CNN supposedly listed the governor as a Republican. You know that was no accident.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boytyperanma (Post 21465788)
It probably was, when I saw the headline "Calls for resignation as VA governor apologizes for racist year book photo" I assumed he was a Republican. Republicans usually have all the 'best' racists.

We'll see if CNN makes an on air correction or if they go the FOX News route and mention it on a web page somewhere or in some cases never make a correction at all.


I don't care if it was over 30 years ago. That means he's had over 30 years to apologize. Instead he 'forgot' about it or actively buried it. He's only chosen to apologize after he was caught. He needs to go.

Might want to note that "supposedly". I was just over on CNN's website; where the story identifies him as "Virginia's Democratic governor", and the video of the story, in an image of his statement, shows him as "D - Virginia" Just where did you hear that he was "supposedly" misidentified on CNN, octopus?

octopus 02-01-2019 11:30 PM

https://youtu.be/yAXmGjtSBAM

Around second 17 in that video. Could be a Russian deepfake video though.

galen ubal 02-01-2019 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465809)
https://youtu.be/yAXmGjtSBAM

Around second 17 in that video. Could be a Russian deepfake video though.

I was about to concede it looked genuine, and then I did a little more digging.
First off, the part you point to puts the misidentification right over what looks like his official title bit. Okay, maybe they do that, and mistakes happen.
Then, a bit further in at about second 51, the chyron correctly identifies him as (D) - Virginia.
I looked a bit down the page, where it says it's "CNN Politics Network", which sounded a little odd to me. Clicking on that will take you to this page, and then clicking the "About" button takes you here.
Quote:

Description
CNN Politics Networks brings all the latest and breaking news of Unites States Of America to you.
Like and Subscribe!!!
Thank You!!!
Details
Location: India
Stats
Joined Dec 20, 2018
164,329 view
So, on balance, I'd say it's a fake.

galen ubal 02-01-2019 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galen ubal (Post 21465814)
I was about to concede it looked genuine, and then I did a little more digging.
First off, the part you point to puts the misidentification right over what looks like his official title bit. Okay, maybe they do that, and mistakes happen.
Then, a bit further in at about second 51, the chyron correctly identifies him as (D) - Virginia.
I looked a bit down the page, where it says it's "CNN Politics Network", which sounded a little odd to me. Clicking on that will take you to this page, and then clicking the "About" button takes you here.

So, on balance, I'd say it's a fake.

*laughing at myself*

After all that work, I had the bright idea to go to CNN's actual YouTube site, and there it is, at about 40 seconds in.
Mea culpa, octopus, you were right.

Northam should still resign. :D

Riemann 02-01-2019 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galen ubal (Post 21465822)
Mea culpa, octopus, you were right.

So your prior news that the story about CNN's fake news was fake news was fake news?

nearwildheaven 02-02-2019 01:04 AM

I haven't read the whole thread, but I know that I am not the only person who is wondering what kind of weirdo they had for a yearbook advisor.

PastTense 02-02-2019 01:37 AM

Quote:

Pressure is mounting on Virginia Democratic Gov. Ralph Northam to resign.
Northam, who apologized earlier Friday for appearing in a racist yearbook photo showing one person dressed in blackface and another in the Ku Klux Klan's signature white hood and robes, became a politician with few allies after a series of calls from prominent Virginia Democrats loosened the governor's hold on his job.
Statements from the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, the Virginia House and Senate Democrats and former Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe -- who was governor when Northam was lieutenant governor -- ratcheted up the tension on Friday night. In the span of 30 minutes, the three groups and Northam's predecessor all announced they believed the governor must step aside.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/01/polit...ign/index.html

BigT 02-02-2019 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITR champion (Post 21465724)
Recall that a few weeks ago, the Academy Awards chose Kevin Hart to host the Oscars this year. And shortly thereafter, he was dropped from the job due to some bad jokes on Twitter about homosexuality. And since then, they haven't been able to find anyone to take his place.

No, what happened there was that people found Kevin Hart's old tweets (which he hadn't deleted), and he was asked if he would apologize. He refused to apologize. That is why he lost the job. (Afterwards, he started apologizing, but it was too late. And then he started running around do a "woe is me" tour that only made people hate him worse.)

And, no, we don't have to worry about every little problem someone has in the past. We are talking about a guy who dressed up in blackface, standing by someone in KKK robes, in the 1980s as some sort of joke. This is not a small thing.

There's no reason to think this is a common problem. Even most racists weren't that openly racist in the 1980s.

I also don't like that we have to go through the forgiveness talk every time. It's not that hard. You have to repudiate your actions, apologize sincerely, show you care about the people you hurt, and make some sort of amends for the issue.

It is unlikely he has already done this, since this whole thing was a secret no one knew about it. He doesn't get forgiveness until he does. Thus, he needs to step down.

Then there's the optics. Do you really think it's a good idea to have "coonman" stay on for the Dems? Don't you think that the Pubs would have a field day with that? Politics very often isn't fair. It wasn't fair that Clinton lost, either.

Ronald Raygun 02-02-2019 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465741)
It’s not slippery slope at all. People really aren’t thinking through the combination of eternal storage of video, text, and audio; global dissemination with social media; and demands for purity.

I don’t think it’s overly strict as it is counterproductive. If people don’t feel there is redemption, especially for something that’s just very poor taste and isn’t illegal, then you run the risk of people who decide it’s not worth the effort to evolve. It’s a bit like prison. Do you want prison to strictly punish and be a place for retribution or should it be a place for rehabilitation?

No one's saying he can't be rehabilitated. We're just saying he should resign. I don't mind if he, say, returns to private practice.

Royal Nonesutch 02-02-2019 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defensive Indifference (Post 21465723)
I lean toward thinking he should resign, but I see Northam and Kavanaugh as very different.

I see Northam and Kavanaugh as being very different too.

Kavanaugh was a spoiled shit who wrote some vile, ugly things about young women in his yearbook back when he was 16 or 17 years of age, clearly showing him to be a smug, arrogant little bastard.

Northam proudly dressed up in the ceremonial garb of a racist hate group that savagely, indiscriminantly murdered thousands of Americans on the basis of ethnicity or religion, a group that still in the minds of millions of Americans today is spiritually akin to German Nazis of the 1940's, back when he was a 25 year-old medical student.

Paul in Qatar 02-02-2019 04:20 AM

There is not enough lipstick in the entire world to pretty up this pig of a story. He will gone within hours.

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riemann (Post 21465603)
It's presumably a nickname he acquired as a direct result of that outfit.

The "Coonman" nickname was in his VMI undergrad yearbook; the blackface/KKK pic was in his med school yearbook.

'Coon' was of course another derogatory term for an African-American person, like 'n****r.'

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK84 (Post 21465720)
This is Governor Post Birth Abortion’s?
Not the smartest is he.

I need to tell you that you are repeating a falsehood. You may be unaware of that. But please consider yourself aware now.

Royal Nonesutch 02-02-2019 05:32 AM

Speaking of Northam and Kavanaugh, I fervently hope that as we speak, somewhere, someone is delevoping a wacky, Hi-Proof Hijinks filled sit-com in the tradition of the "Odd Couple", "Perfect Strangers" or "Sid & Nancy" naturally to be called "Dr. Coonman & De Judge" which would follow our lovingly mismatched heroes on their weekly misadventures, filled with plenty of boofing, ralphing, "'Skis with Timmy'' and the Birthin' of Nigra' Babies, and of course in the end most importantly, lots learning and personal growth...

"Remember, tune into FOX Tuesdays at 9 for 'Dr. Coonman & De Judge', more fun than a trip to the Devil's Triangle"

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465741)
If people don’t feel there is redemption, especially for something that’s just very poor taste and isn’t illegal, then you run the risk of people who decide it’s not worth the effort to evolve. It’s a bit like prison. Do you want prison to strictly punish and be a place for retribution or should it be a place for rehabilitation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Raygun (Post 21465879)
No one's saying he can't be rehabilitated. We're just saying he should resign. I don't mind if he, say, returns to private practice.

Bingo. I think it's analogous to all those evangelical preacher scandals of the 1980s (e.g. Jim Bakker). They'd be exposed, confess their sins with much weepery, and then expect that forgiveness meant they got to go on as before.

Well, it doesn't work like that. After shit like that, if you repent, you're accepted back into the flock. But you don't get to keep on being the shepherd.

Same here. Nobody's casting Ralph Northam into the outer darkness; we're just saying he can't be Governor anymore. Too many people would be too uncomfortable having a leader who'd ever done that.

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nearwildheaven (Post 21465854)
I haven't read the whole thread, but I know that I am not the only person who is wondering what kind of weirdo they had for a yearbook advisor.

It was med school. These were adults. They didn't need a faculty advisor.

Hell, I was on the college paper during my undergraduate days in the early to mid 1970s. I don't think we even had a faculty advisor, but if we did, his role would have had to be pretty minimal, because I have no memory of such a person.

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 05:49 AM

Northam's office announced last night that he'll be holding a press conference at 10am today. I would assume that he will announce his resignation at that time.

The Democratic caucuses in both the VA House of Delegates and VA Senate have called on him to resign. Terry MacAuliffe, his predecessor as governor, has called on him to resign. Presidential candidates (Kamala Harris and Julian Castro that I know of) have called on him to resign.

Ancient Erudite 02-02-2019 05:52 AM

One thing I never quite understood is why the Democrats tolerated the presence of Senator Robert Byrd, a known KKK Man as a Democratic Senator. Perhaps because the governor at times in West Virginia was a Republican and could pick his replacement?

If the Lt. Governor happened to be a Republican, it would be fascinating to see the responses here.

The photo is a hideous disgrace. He should step down immediately.

Bijou Drains 02-02-2019 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nearwildheaven (Post 21465854)
I haven't read the whole thread, but I know that I am not the only person who is wondering what kind of weirdo they had for a yearbook advisor.

I think for med school they probably don't have anybody on the faculty looking into this kind of minor stuff. Those faculty treat patients as well as teach so they don't have a lot of spare time

Blank Slate 02-02-2019 06:30 AM

It's a damn shame a solid progressive like Tom Periello lost to Northam in the primary. I lived in Charlottesville briefly and had the pleasure of voting for him in his successful run for Congress in 2008. Periello always knew which party reflected his own values. Northam voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004, and ran as a Demcrat forthe state senate in 2007 because he didn't stand a chance of unseating the Republican incumbent in the primary. Always beware of conversions borne by expedience. The GOP can have him back.

ElvisL1ves 02-02-2019 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite (Post 21465936)
One thing I never quite understood is why the Democrats tolerated the presence of Senator Robert Byrd, a known KKK Man as a Democratic Senator.

If you really wanted to understand, you would. In short, he outgrew his youthful ignorance and recanted.

You might also look into the Southern Strategy, while you're at it.

hajario 02-02-2019 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite (Post 21465936)
One thing I never quite understood is why the Democrats tolerated the presence of Senator Robert Byrd, a known KKK Man as a Democratic Senator. Perhaps because the governor at times in West Virginia was a Republican and could pick his replacement?

What the fuck were they supposed to do? They couldn’t stop him from running as a Democrat.

Quote:

If the Lt. Governor happened to be a Republican, it would be fascinating to see the responses here.
What an incredibly shitty and hypocritical comment. The responses would be exactly the same. What was fascinating was all of the comments from Republicans at first who were eagerly waiting for “spin” from tbe Democrats. Instead, without exception, they all called for him to resign. I’m sorry that you were disappointed by them doing the right thing.

iiandyiiii 02-02-2019 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite (Post 21465936)
One thing I never quite understood is why the Democrats tolerated the presence of Senator Robert Byrd, a known KKK Man as a Democratic Senator.

It's because he never sought to hide his past, and admitted and recognized how terrible it was, and apologized for it, committing himself to opposing racism as a Senator.

However, the existence of a dead, reformed racist Democrat does not excuse the continued support of Republicans for many living unreformed and unapologetic racists, including the current occupant of the WH, who spent years spreading a racist, evidence free conspiracy theory, who has praised white supremacists, and who has said many racist things himself.

Chronos 02-02-2019 07:50 AM

I will admit to being somewhat curious as to why this is only surfacing now, and not back during the campaign. It's not like yearbooks are deeply-buried secrets, and there are actual professionals in political campaigns paid to do opposition research.

But regardless of the reason, it's irrelevant. It has somehow turned up now, and it is disqualifying.

Biotop 02-02-2019 07:51 AM

I also voted for him and think he has done a good job so far. He should resign.

Ancient Erudite 02-02-2019 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii (Post 21465971)
It's because he never sought to hide his past, and admitted and recognized how terrible it was, and apologized for it, committing himself to opposing racism as a Senator.

However, the existence of a dead, reformed racist Democrat does not excuse the continued support of Republicans for many living unreformed and unapologetic racists, including the current occupant of the WH, who spent years spreading a racist, evidence free conspiracy theory, who has praised white supremacists, and who has said many racist things himself.


So you are saying any racists who follow Bryd's ( former KKK Man ) lead whether its a genuine change of heart or not can do the same?

Sorry, I don't subscribe to that line of thought. I see a double standard. If Byrd was a Republican, he would have been forced out.

Jonathan Chance 02-02-2019 08:01 AM

That is, of course, ridiculous. Byrd functioned in other times and attempting some sort of gotcha bit derides both sides of the discussion. It shows a lack of effort and seriousness.

Now, onto something real. I heard about this on the radio yesterday and at first:

1. Huh. There's some sort of problem with his yearbook. Survivable.

2. Uh oh. It's in a picture he's in. Blackface. Dang. Maybe some sort of idiot frat thing he was near. Not good, but OK.

3. He says he's IN the picture. OK, that's a...weird...disclaimer. But how bad could it be.

4. See pic. Well, he's either the guy in blackface or he's in the klan outfit. Damn. That's it for him, then. At least that accounts for the weird 'in the picture' thing.

HMS Irruncible 02-02-2019 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITR champion (Post 21465486)
Since I'm not a member of either major political party, I'm not obligated to take a partisan stance. I don't care what was in Brett Kavanaugh's high school yearbook. I don't care what was in Ralph Northam's med school yearbook. Why should I care?

Not caring about past racist or sexist behavior is implicitly a partisan stance because it is the same stance as the Republican party. Perhaps you're not a card-carrying member, but if you support what they support and attack what they attack, then that's really a distinction without a difference. Nobody buys it.

iiandyiiii 02-02-2019 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite (Post 21466021)
So you are saying any racists who follow Bryd's ( former KKK Man ) lead whether its a genuine change of heart or not can do the same?

Sorry, I don't subscribe to that line of thought. I see a double standard. If Byrd was a Republican, he would have been forced out.

The Republicans haven't forced out their current unapologetic racists. It's a joke to suggest that they'd force out a reformed racist who apologized.

You're not living in reality. Trump's world is not reality.

Fiddle Peghead 02-02-2019 08:08 AM

Nm.

Jonathan Chance 02-02-2019 08:13 AM

The Moderator Speaks
 
As a matter of fact, I'm going to call the Byrd stuff out as a hijack.

It's worthy of its own thread, mind you. But in this one it's a distraction.

No more of it, please.

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hajario (Post 21465970)
What was fascinating was all of the comments from Republicans at first who were eagerly waiting for “spin” from tbe Democrats. Instead, without exception, they all called for him to resign.

Hell, some of them didn't even bother to wait.

Erick Erickson called out the left as a bunch of hypocrites for their silence about Northam at 5:34pm EST yesterday, when the story was still breaking, and nobody had really had time to comment in the minutes since it had been verified that this wasn't a Photoshop job by a right-wing 'news' site.

A little over-eager there, Erick? :rolleyes:

Then he had to take a whole 'nother line on everything once essentially the entire Democratic world said Northam had to go. Why anyone takes this dipshit seriously is beyond me.

Riemann 02-02-2019 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 21465916)
The "Coonman" nickname was in his VMI undergrad yearbook; the blackface/KKK pic was in his med school yearbook.

'Coon' was of course another derogatory term for an African-American person, like 'n****r.'

So maybe this wasn't the first time he dressed up in blackface? It would seem to be quite a coincidence if he got such a nickname some other way, and the yearbooks would suggest that he was rather proud of both the costume and the nickname.

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 08:32 AM

A couple of things from Twitter, because they said it better than me. (And why rephrase someone's 280-character tweet?)

1)
Quote:

Republicans: "See?! This is clearly racist. Ralph Northam should resign."

Democrats: "I mean, yeah, we totally agree. He should resign."

Republicans: "You're such hypo--oh... uh, well, okay."

Democrats: "So, what about Trump?"

Republicans: .............................
Or what about Rep. Steve King, or Rep. Steve 'I'm David Duke without the baggage' Scalise.

2)
Quote:

Republicans actively support leaders who sexually assault, are racist, xenophobic. No one really expects them to care, and they don't. Democrats force out popular and effective leaders who sexually assault, are racist, xenophobic. Everyone expects them to care, and they do.

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riemann (Post 21466056)
So maybe this wasn't the first time he dressed up in blackface? It would seem to be quite a coincidence if he got such a nickname some other way, and the yearbooks would suggest that he was rather proud of both the costume and the nickname.

That would be my WAG, certainly.

Less than a half-hour until his presser. I've got to run errands, so I guess I'll hear about it when I get back.

Riemann 02-02-2019 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 21466065)
A couple of things from Twitter...

They Republicans are slow off the mark. I'm surprised nobody has come up with the unfalsifiable:
"If the Lt-Gov was a Republican, you wouldn't force him to resign, so you are hypothetical hypocrites".

RitterSport 02-02-2019 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riemann (Post 21466071)
They Republicans are slow off the mark. I'm surprised nobody has come up with the unfalsifiable:
"If the Lt-Gov was a Republican, you wouldn't force him to resign, so you are hypothetical hypocrites".

See post 93 of this very thread, from the guy who says that a Republican racist would have been drummed out of office. Hilarious!

I'm not from Virginia and I'm a little tired of the Democrats having to keep a pristine house while racists, harassers, and philanderers in the Republican party continue on in their merry way, but ultimately I like that the Dems have a much cleaner house. So, I vote resign.

Riemann 02-02-2019 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RitterSport (Post 21466085)
See post 93 of this very thread...

Ah, right, I must have failed to read that post carefully for some reason I can't imagine.

Thudlow Boink 02-02-2019 09:23 AM

A question (not trying to make any point, just wondering):

What if he had done the same thing, but there wasn't a photo of it? What if one of his classmates had come forward and said "I remember that time he dressed up in blackface, and went to a party with that other guy dressed in a KKK outfit," and plenty of other people corroborated it? Same facts, but perhaps different emotional reaction without the visual. Would there be the same level of outrage?

Dacien 02-02-2019 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galen ubal (Post 21465822)
*laughing at myself*

After all that work, I had the bright idea to go to CNN's actual YouTube site, and there it is, at about 40 seconds in.
Mea culpa, octopus, you were right.

Northam should still resign. :D

These days, you're 100% justified in being skeptical in everything.

Riemann 02-02-2019 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink (Post 21466120)
What if he had done the same thing, but there wasn't a photo of it?

I suppose then he might have claimed that he and a buddy stupidly improvised a costume one time while drunk, and he totally regretted it the next morning.

The peripheral circumstances in the actual case are much more serious indictments of his judgment and principles - and it's not just the visual impact per se. It's the fact that a lot of careful (sober) thought and design clearly went into these costumes; and in deliberately placing the photo in the public record in his yearbook he wasn't even neutral about it, he was proud of it - after presumably having some considerable time to consider the matter. As a 25-year-old.

Dacien 02-02-2019 09:40 AM

NYT Political Correspondent is reporting that Northam is now claiming to Dem leadership that it is not, in fact, him in the racist photo.

Which is quite odd, because he already apologized for it.

Riemann 02-02-2019 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacien (Post 21466128)
These days, you're 100% justified in being skeptical in everything.

Cite?

Dacien 02-02-2019 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riemann (Post 21466148)
Cite?

I see what you did there.

Thudlow Boink 02-02-2019 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riemann (Post 21466141)
I suppose then he might have claimed that he and a buddy stupidly improvised a costume one time while drunk, and he totally regretted it the next morning.

The peripheral circumstances in the actual case are much more serious indictments of his judgment and principles - and it's not just the visual impact per se. It's the fact that a lot of careful (sober) thought and design clearly went into these costumes; and in deliberately placing the photo in the public record in his yearbook he wasn't even neutral about it, he was proud of it - after presumably having some considerable time to consider the matter. As a 25-year-old.

These are good points. Although, do we know that it was he who chose to include the photo in the yearbook?

Ludovic 02-02-2019 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayjay (Post 21465431)
My first reaction was "He was so young and it was so long ago."

My second reaction was "But Kavanaugh..."

He should probably resign, and I say this as a hyperpartisan Democrat.

I say he doesn't resign. No use shooting yourself in the foot with your opponents gun. I'm not feeling charitable these days.

It might be politically wise to resign, but I think trolling the GOP's two facedness will make me feel better than punishing this person right about now.

Riemann 02-02-2019 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink (Post 21466154)
These are good points. Although, do we know that it was he who chose to include the photo in the yearbook?

I mean, if you want to propose the most generous narrative one could possibly imagine, let's really go for it...

He got the nickname "coonman" years before from a knife fight with a family of raccoons. Years later, because of the hilarious double meaning of the nickname, naughty college buddies prepared an extremely elaborate joke costume with blackface, got him completely drunk and convinced him to wear it, posed next to KKK guy, then took a photo. You can't tell that he's so drunk that he doesn't know what he's doing because, you know, blackface - and the invisible broom propping him up. And the college yearbook has a tradition that your buddies can contribute the most embarrassing photo of you they can find and you have no veto.

hajario 02-02-2019 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos (Post 21466014)
I will admit to being somewhat curious as to why this is only surfacing now, and not back during the campaign. It's not like yearbooks are deeply-buried secrets, and there are actual professionals in political campaigns paid to do opposition research.

But regardless of the reason, it's irrelevant. It has somehow turned up now, and it is disqualifying.

I don’t think it occurred to most people that there would be a student produced Medical School yearbook. Are those common? I’m sure that they looked at his High School ones. But someone knew about it and dropped it right after his first big controversy.

jayjay 02-02-2019 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ludovic (Post 21466155)
I say he doesn't resign. No use shooting yourself in the foot with your opponents gun. I'm not feeling charitable these days.

It might be politically wise to resign, but I think trolling the GOP's two facedness will make me feel better than punishing this person right about now.

You don't show that you respect and value your coalition partners by ignoring their concerns so you can schadenfreude more. The Democratic party is a coalition party that's made up, in large part (not majority, but very large part), by African-Americans, and this is a slap in the face to them, generally. It's not a good look at all to be saying "We should ignore this because it was something that happened decades ago."

Magiver 02-02-2019 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Procrustus (Post 21465505)
As I said, I'd keep an open mind. Are there really people who were that clueless as young adults who have now seen the light? I'm trying to imagine what he could say to convince me he realizes how awful that was and how he's changed.

He could say "some of my best Lt Governors are African American".

It's hard to chalk this up to youthful indiscretion. This was the reasoning skills of an adult in medical school in 1984. This is how he wanted to be remembered. Unless it was from a stage play on the evils of racism I can't imagine how he can explain this.

He didn't just shoot himself in the foot politically he cast a shadow over his medical career.

BobLibDem 02-02-2019 11:11 AM

We all know how this will end. He will resign, no later than Feb 3. If he was a Republican, this would be quickly forgotten. But Democrats are, and should be, held to a higher standard- as Al Franken can attest.

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21466215)
He could say "some of my best Lt Governors are African American".

ISWYDT, but I'll still note that Fairfax isn't his Lt Gov: in Virginia, each of the three statewide officials (Gov, Lt Gov, AG) run separately and are voted on separately. A VA gubernatorial candidate doesn't pick a Lt Gov candidate as his/her running mate.


ETA: now they're saying the presser will be at 2:30pm.

hajario 02-02-2019 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobLibDem (Post 21466246)
We all know how this will end. He will resign, no later than Feb 3. If he was a Republican, this would be quickly forgotten. But Democrats are, and should be, held to a higher standard- as Al Franken can attest.

He made an announcement a couple of hours ago and said that he has no intention of resigning. He also said that it wasn’t actually him in the picture which is irrelevant in my opinion. It’s arguably worse.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-blackface-kkk

Fretful Porpentine 02-02-2019 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hajario (Post 21466260)
He made an announcement a couple of hours ago and said that he has no intention of resigning. He also said that it wasn’t actually him in the picture which is irrelevant in my opinion. It’s arguably worse.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-blackface-kkk

Say what, now? If it wasn't him, what earthly explanation can he offer for saying yesterday that it WAS him? I was originally in the "having worn an outrageously offensive costume at a party 35 years ago isn't necessarily so damning that he should resign" camp, but the way he's handling this has been so bizarre and weasely that it seems to say a lot about his character today.

Dacien 02-02-2019 11:37 AM

Northam considering facial-recognition software to exonerate him, according to NYT source. This is all very bizarre.

iiandyiiii 02-02-2019 11:38 AM

I suspect he's scrambling and desperate and maybe a bit in denial, and that he'll accept the need to resign in the next day or two.

Riemann 02-02-2019 11:42 AM

As a matter of interest, valid reasons for recall in the Virginia statute:

Quote:

...Neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties when that neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of the office...
And the petition must exceed 10% of votes cast when he was elected.

https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governi...ll_in_Virginia
https://ballotpedia.org/States_with_...all_provisions

If he flatly refuses to resign, I can't see how he could be recalled based on that statute.

Left Hand of Dorkness 02-02-2019 11:43 AM

I'm perfectly willing to hear him out--it's not like a nuclear bomb is gonna explode if he doesn't resign by Monday--but unless his explanation is both remarkable and convincing, he needs to go.

(Remarkable + convincing could be something like, "I had a black girlfriend in college, which led to a bunch of racist fuckers calling me "Coonman" and putting that in the yearbook without my permission. One of those same racist fuckers went to medical school with me and put this picture on my yearbook page to continue his harassment of me. I did my best to ignore him, thinking that you don't feed the trolls, but now I regret that. The name of this guy is Bob Smith, and here are the school records that prove my account, and here's another member of the yearbook staff who remembers his odious pranks and will testify under oath about them."

I don't expect a remarkable + convincing account.)

iiandyiiii 02-02-2019 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness (Post 21466298)
I'm perfectly willing to hear him out--it's not like a nuclear bomb is gonna explode if he doesn't resign by Monday--but unless his explanation is both remarkable and convincing, he needs to go.

(Remarkable + convincing could be something like, "I had a black girlfriend in college, which led to a bunch of racist fuckers calling me "Coonman" and putting that in the yearbook without my permission. One of those same racist fuckers went to medical school with me and put this picture on my yearbook page to continue his harassment of me. I did my best to ignore him, thinking that you don't feed the trolls, but now I regret that. The name of this guy is Bob Smith, and here are the school records that prove my account, and here's another member of the yearbook staff who remembers his odious pranks and will testify under oath about them."

I don't expect a remarkable + convincing account.)

If it were something like that, then I think it would have stuck in his psyche even after all these years, and that would have been his first response.

Dacien 02-02-2019 12:07 PM

There's always room for some levity, and Charles C. W. Cooke provides it:

"Given how his week is going, there has to be some chance that Northam was the guy who attacked Smollett."

k9bfriender 02-02-2019 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink (Post 21465405)
This was 35 years ago when he was young and in school. I'm not sure it tells us much about the man he is today (but the way he responds to it will)—and that's what I think should determine whether or not he should resign.

Not that young, and certainly old enough to know better. I would not hold it against him if I found out he was my doctor, or my neighbor, or my client. But, we do need to hold the people who not only set policy, but also act as role models to a higher standard. There are plenty of people in this world who want power, we can afford to be a bit picky as to who we give those reins to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacien (Post 21465624)
This whole thing is just ghoulish the more I think about it. With future elected officials having grown up saturated in social media, we're in for a heck of ride.

Not that much. That we have more information to make informed decisions about who we choose to represent us is not a bad thing. The only ones who would think it is a bad thing are those with something to hide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacien (Post 21465699)
If you were to judge me even by who was just ten years ago, you'd be looking at a completely different person. I'm embarrassed, regretful, and ashamed of some of the mistakes I've made just ten years ago! If I was fighting for what I believed in today with a new outlook, in a more mature and well-adjusted place, and somebody brought up some awful thing I did in my twenties, I'd feel deeply wronged. That's not who I am today, that's not what I stand for, and I distance myself from those mistakes completely, and have moved forward from them.

This is called being human. And our elected officials are no different.

Yes, that would be a good description of the lack of accountability that is rather rampant int he Republican party these days. "Well yeah, what I did was awful, but you should feel ashamed of yourself for bringing it up."

If you know you did awful things in your 20's, apologize for them now and start your repentance for your sins. Getting upset that someone brings up something that you did, and only offering a grudging non-apology if that for "anyone who may have been offended", is too little too late.

Since you know these awful things you did, should you ever run for office, I would suggest getting out in front, and laying them out before you get too far in your campaign. Your voters may reward your honesty, and find your repentance to be sincere, or they may find your actions too egregious to accept. Either way, they are making an informed decision as to whether or not you are what they want to lead them.

If you hide it, and they only find out after, then they will be less forgiving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by octopus (Post 21465712)
If politicians have to recollect every affair, every off color joke or comment, every poor choice in robes and pointy hats we might be in for a long series of confessionals. Imagine if everyone’s internet search history was public knowledge. :eek::eek::eek:

I can remember every single time in my life that I have dressed up in blackface or klan robes, can you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITR champion (Post 21465724)
Recall that a few weeks ago, the Academy Awards chose Kevin Hart to host the Oscars this year. And shortly thereafter, he was dropped from the job due to some bad jokes on Twitter about homosexuality. And since then, they haven't been able to find anyone to take his place.

If a certain job means having every stupid or offensive thing a person has ever posted online or made public anywhere else will be dragged out in public at great length, and then used to wreck one's career, the number of people willing to do that job may suddenly drop. To zero, in some cases.

Depends on the perks of the job. If getting a MW job at McDonalds required that sort of background check, then no one would want to flip burgers.
Quote:

If the Democrats decide that every poorly chosen, decades-old joke by one of their politicians should be a career ender, they might likewise find that the number of people wanting to run for office as Democrats will decrease.
There is no shortage of people who desire power. Winnowing that field down to those who have not dressed up in blackface with a KKK member shouldn't prevent us from finding qualified candidates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boytyperanma (Post 21465788)
It probably was, when I saw the headline "Calls for resignation as VA governor apologizes for racist year book photo" I assumed he was a Republican. Republicans usually have all the 'best' racists.

We'll see if CNN makes an on air correction or if they go the FOX News route and mention it on a web page somewhere or in some cases never make a correction at all.

Yeah, when I first saw the healding, I thought, "Gee, 'nother racist Republican... wait, I thought they elected a democrat as governor. Yeah, well, fuck. He's gotta go."
Quote:

I don't care if it was over 30 years ago. That means he's had over 30 years to apologize. Instead he 'forgot' about it or actively buried it. He's only chosen to apologize after he was caught. He needs to go.
He had to have known that that existed, and hoping that something like that just doesn't come out shows poor judgement as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nearwildheaven (Post 21465854)
I haven't read the whole thread, but I know that I am not the only person who is wondering what kind of weirdo they had for a yearbook advisor.

As an adult, they are probably given pretty free authority over the content, but still... someone should have thought that was a bad idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite (Post 21465936)
If the Lt. Governor happened to be a Republican, it would be fascinating to see the responses here.

What do you think would be different? Democrats would be calling for a republican to step down as well.
Quote:

The photo is a hideous disgrace. He should step down immediately.
Hey, fascinating, we agree on something.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Riemann (Post 21466170)
I mean, if you want to propose the most generous narrative one could possibly imagine, let's really go for it...

He got the nickname "coonman" years before from a knife fight with a family of raccoons. Years later, because of the hilarious double meaning of the nickname, naughty college buddies prepared an extremely elaborate joke costume with blackface, got him completely drunk and convinced him to wear it, posed next to KKK guy, then took a photo. You can't tell that he's so drunk that he doesn't know what he's doing because, you know, blackface - and the invisible broom propping him up. And the college yearbook has a tradition that your buddies can contribute the most embarrassing photo of you they can find and you have no veto.

I was thinking more or less along the same lines for the extenuating circumstances that would make this less horrific.

And even still, you should come out ahead of it. When you first think about going into politics, you say, "So, I have an embarrassing* story of when I was in medical school..."



*embarrassing may not be the right word, but it would be up to a politician to come up with the right words.

Thudlow Boink 02-02-2019 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9bfriender (Post 21466338)
There is no shortage of people who desire power.

That's not the relevant number. Sometimes it seems that there is indeed a shortage of people who desire power and can be trusted with it.

Riemann 02-02-2019 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacien (Post 21466335)
There's always room for some levity, and Charles C. W. Cooke provides it:

"Given how his week is going, there has to be some chance that Northam was the guy who attacked Smollett."

Or if Northam's the guy on the left, maybe the same people attacked him on the way home from a party, and he can corroborate Smollett's story.

Try2B Comprehensive 02-02-2019 12:31 PM

Not responding to anyone in particular here, but I am not too afraid that politicians' pasts are going to be sifted through going forward. Some people will have pics from the theater club, or maybe golf or volleyball, or here they are at a party with a beer (and they're only 20!!1!1), maybe doing something a little silly like W Bush's cheerleader pic. That might have been a little embarrassing.

But then there is Governor Klan. Or coonman, one of those. Every time he says something, this pic is going to come up again. There's dorky stuff like W's cheerleader stuff, and then there is fondling an unconscious woman in military garb, and then there is dressing up like the fucking Klan- or one of their stereotypes. OMG. That scene at the end of Pink Flamingos in which Devine appears to eat fresh dog poop? Gives me the willies just to remember it, but at least that was in context with the rest of the movie.

Chess club past? Debate club maybe? Young Republicans? Churchy breeders association? Business leaders of tomorrow, or Boy Scouts, or maybe Habitat for Humanity? Track team? Guitar nerd? 90s slacker stoner? Goth girl? Angry poet? Used to be fat? Really awkward tan suit? The time before you had cosmetic surgery?

No, the fucking Klan. :smack:

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacien (Post 21466289)
Northam considering facial-recognition software to exonerate him, according to NYT source. This is all very bizarre.

Not sure that'll help him prove that he's not the guy wearing the Klan hood.

Riemann 02-02-2019 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 21466381)
Not sure that'll help him prove that he's not the guy wearing the Klan hood.

Not even "enhance"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhF_56SxrGk

Littleman 02-02-2019 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 21465916)
The "Coonman" nickname was in his VMI undergrad yearbook; the blackface/KKK pic was in his med school yearbook.

'Coon' was of course another derogatory term for an African-American person, like 'n****r.'

In fact the character that the person in the photo is dressed as was known as " the dandified coon". In real blackface genre.


Why do people want to know which is him?
Which would be better or worse?

RitterSport 02-02-2019 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magiver (Post 21466215)
He could say "some of my best Lt Governors are African American".

It's hard to chalk this up to youthful indiscretion. This was the reasoning skills of an adult in medical school in 1984. This is how he wanted to be remembered. Unless it was from a stage play on the evils of racism I can't imagine how he can explain this.

He didn't just shoot himself in the foot politically he cast a shadow over his medical career.

...and that's why I think Trump and Steve King, at least, should resign.

--Not Magiver

RitterSport 02-02-2019 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite (Post 21465936)
One thing I never quite understood is why the Democrats tolerated the presence of Senator Robert Byrd, a known KKK Man as a Democratic Senator. Perhaps because the governor at times in West Virginia was a Republican and could pick his replacement?

If the Lt. Governor happened to be a Republican, it would be fascinating to see the responses here.

The photo is a hideous disgrace. He should step down immediately.

...and that's why I think Donald Trump and Steve King, at least, should resign.

--Not Ancient Erudite

k9bfriender 02-02-2019 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink (Post 21466346)
That's not the relevant number. Sometimes it seems that there is indeed a shortage of people who desire power and can be trusted with it.

Right, and it is up to the public to determine if they can be trusted. The public should make an informed decision. Having this out there informs the public.

you with the face 02-02-2019 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine (Post 21466278)
Say what, now? If it wasn't him, what earthly explanation can he offer for saying yesterday that it WAS him?

Maybe his fixer is telling him to play this like Trump would.

Velocity 02-02-2019 01:30 PM

The 1985 Northam and 2019 Northam are two different versions of the same person (presumably.) It's not the 1985 high schooler Northam that is going to be making legislative, gubernatorial and political decisions; it's the 2019 version.


What someone has done in the past shouldn't matter so much as who they are today.

hajario 02-02-2019 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity (Post 21466456)
The 1985 Northam and 2019 Northam are two different versions of the same person (presumably.) It's not the 1985 high schooler Northam that is going to be making legislative, gubernatorial and political decisions; it's the 2019 version.


What someone has done in the past shouldn't matter so much as who they are today.

1985 Medical School Student in his mid-20s Northam.

Jonathan Chance 02-02-2019 01:35 PM

The Moderator Speaks
 
That is right at the fucking edge, Rittersport.

EVERYONE LISTEN UP.

This thread is on best behavior status. Any shot at another poster - any at all - will lead to sanction. And I'm not talking mod notes, here.

I hope that's clear.

kenobi 65 02-02-2019 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity (Post 21466456)
It's not the 1985 high schooler Northam that is going to be making legislative, gubernatorial and political decisions

As has been noted already several times in this thread, in 1985, Northam was not a high schooler. He was 24 or 25 years old, and he was a college graduate, and in medical school.

bobot 02-02-2019 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine (Post 21466278)
Say what, now? If it wasn't him, what earthly explanation can he offer for saying yesterday that it WAS him? ...

I'll tell you one thing, if it wasn't me in a picture like that you can believe I'd be screaming it from the first accusation. Also, I'd want to know back then what the fuck it was doing on my yearbook page.

asahi 02-02-2019 01:45 PM

What's amazing is that it hadn't been leaked before. Any of his old classmates must have kept on old yearbook laying around somewhere, and I'm sure some of them remembered the photo - that image is kinda hard to un-see and forget. Northam's career in politics has pretty much coincided with the social media age, so it's remarkable that he made it this far without being exposed already. I guess it's only in the past few months that his profile has been big enough for his opponents to care.

Try2B Comprehensive 02-02-2019 01:46 PM

So, he put on blackface at a dance party some other time, which is why he can now clearly remember that he is not one of the guys in that photo.

Does that count as an alibi?

kaylasdad99 02-02-2019 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocity (Post 21466456)
The 1985 Northam and 2019 Northam are two different versions of the same person (presumably.) It's not the 1985 high schooler Northam that is going to be making legislative, gubernatorial and political decisions; it's the 2019 version.

Nitpick: 1984 medical schooler. Born in 1959. Aged 24 when that yearbook was released.

Dacien 02-02-2019 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive (Post 21466484)
So, he put on blackface at a dance party some other time, which is why he can now clearly remember that he is not one of the guys in that photo.

Does that count as an alibi?

What else can he say after his admission yesterday, really?

Edit: So he had never seen or knew about this photo until now. Hmm.

Edit 2: He described the "coonman" moniker as simply two individuals who referred to him that way and he has no idea why.

Dacien 02-02-2019 01:58 PM

Someobody is claiming he said, "I vividly don't remember..."

If that's true (I didn't hear it), that's a great line.

All this aside, his true best line was "That is not who I am." Which is true. He's obviously not a racist.

Velocity 02-02-2019 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 (Post 21466485)
Nitpick: 1984 medical schooler. Born in 1959. Aged 24 when that yearbook was released.

Ok, my bad. I was off.

Omar Little 02-02-2019 02:23 PM

Wait a minute, let’s give this guy a chance to explain himself. Maybe he was in Maryland at the time at a party with Squee lifting weights and drinking beer!

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 02:26 PM

Speaking of 'off,' I was sure wrong about him resigning today!

What a fucking nightmare for Virginia Democrats.

UltraVires 02-02-2019 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine (Post 21466278)
Say what, now? If it wasn't him, what earthly explanation can he offer for saying yesterday that it WAS him? I was originally in the "having worn an outrageously offensive costume at a party 35 years ago isn't necessarily so damning that he should resign" camp, but the way he's handling this has been so bizarre and weasely that it seems to say a lot about his character today.

This is the issue I have with his response and he dodged the question several times. If he only dressed with shoe polish makeup one single time in the Michael Jackson dance contest, then why yesterday did he say it was him or did he think it could have possibly been him?

Why wouldn't after five minutes of thought say that no, it wasn't him?

However, I agree with you that even if it was him so long ago it isn't a reason to resign.

But, I have learned something today. It is offensive if a white person is dressing as a black person for Halloween or some other such informal party, to use dark makeup to get in character? Why is that? I'm not talking about a black minstrel face with the ruby red giant lipstick type of character. I understand that is offensive. But a white person now in 2019 simply cannot portray a black person at these informal gatherings?

Bijou Drains 02-02-2019 02:28 PM

Can someone be kicked out of a party? I don't think that is an option. Most states you list your party at voter registration and you can change it when you want.

DrDeth 02-02-2019 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayjay (Post 21465431)
My first reaction was "He was so young and it was so long ago."

My second reaction was "But Kavanaugh...".

There is a huge difference between resigning a job for which you were elected by the will of the people- vs simply not getting a promotion to a better job.

If those revelations about Kavanaugh had come out after he had joined the Supreme Court, I would say "Too late!".

I say he should not resign. But if he does, that's Ok too.

k9bfriender 02-02-2019 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bijou Drains (Post 21466548)
Can someone be kicked out of a party? I don't think that is an option. Most states you list your party at voter registration and you can change it when you want.

You aren't kicked out of the party, you are removed from any leadership roles in that party, along with any backing for campaigns for elected positions.

iiandyiiii 02-02-2019 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraVires (Post 21466546)
But, I have learned something today. It is offensive if a white person is dressing as a black person for Halloween or some other such informal party, to use dark makeup to get in character? Why is that? I'm not talking about a black minstrel face with the ruby red giant lipstick type of character. I understand that is offensive. But a white person now in 2019 simply cannot portray a black person at these informal gatherings?

That's considered offensive because of the history of blackface -- white people using white supremacist tropes to mock and denigrate the humanity of black people in performances. Without that history, you could dress as whomever you like. But in today's world, any attempt to darken a white (or light-skinned) person's face in America for a costume is likely to bring up thoughts of blackface.

UltraVires 02-02-2019 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDeth (Post 21466554)
There is a huge difference between resigning a job for which you were elected by the will of the people- vs simply not getting a promotion to a better job.

If those revelations about Kavanaugh had come out after he had joined the Supreme Court, I would say "Too late!".

I'm not following this point. If the idea is that because of action X we don't want a person to be our Governor for the next four years, why is it not equally valid if you find out six months after election to say that because of action X we don't want him there for the next three and a half?

I don't think he should resign, but he is killing himself with this poor explanation and dodging the obvious question he was asked several times.

I think that something along the lines of "I have always abhorred racism, but I grew up in a rural area of the Tidewater area of Virginia. Some of my friends who were not as progressive as me on race would sometimes get drunk and dress up in KKK hoods and blackface as a joke. At the time, I did not realize that this "joke" was not funny at all and has real harmful implications for many people. That is one of the reasons that 25 year olds are too young to become governor. I think my record for the past thirty years, blah, blah, blah" I could accept.

Now, many others might not be able to accept it, but people can change and grow. But his explanation of why he said it was him, or why he believed that it could have possibly been him when he states with certainty that the only time it happened was the Michael Jackson thing just doesn't make sense. He was given several opportunities to answer that question but he reverted to his talking points.

DrDeth 02-02-2019 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraVires (Post 21466575)
I'm not following this point. If the idea is that because of action X we don't want a person to be our Governor for the next four years, why is it not equally valid if you find out six months after election to say that because of action X we don't want him there for the next three and a half?
.

Do you not see the difference between getting fired and being denied a promotion?

HMS Irruncible 02-02-2019 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDeth (Post 21466554)
If those revelations about Kavanaugh had come out after he had joined the Supreme Court, I would say "Too late!".

The thing with Kavanaugh is different though. Those were contested allegations that depended on the testimony of a few people. It was totally appropriate during confirmation and I wish it sank Kavanaugh, but sitting judges or governors shouldn't be burdened with that kind of stuff. Also, politically speaking, it's a heavy lift to impeach a SCOTUS judge.

But if something incontrovertible and criminal came out about Kavanaugh? Yes, impeach the man, no matter how long ago. It blows my mind that we barely touched the issue of $200,000 credit card debt he had... for baseball tickets. Who even has $200,000 in credit card debt? Who were these tickets for and what happened to them? How did he pay off $200,000 in credit card debt? I suspect there's at least 1 crime hiding in there, I think it should be investigated, and if proven, then he should be impeached.

A governor's position is also different in that it is an explicitly partisan position. Democrats have a right and duty to decide who they want to represent them and who they want to work with. If they decide a governor doesn't represent who they are, and his lieutenant is also a Democrat, then it's obvious they should ask him to step down and thwart his legislative agenda until he does so. It's a no-brainer.

I would struggle with this a little more if it meant handing the governorship to a Republican. Democrats would have to decide which is worse, the embarrassment and hypocrisy of tolerating a past racist, or giving Republicans the reins to continue gutting voter's rights in Virginia, which is a serious problem there and everywhere else. You don't cling to one principle if it means giving a position of power to someone likely to offend that principle even more severely. Would be a tough call and I'm glad it isn't necessary.

RitterSport 02-02-2019 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance (Post 21466466)
That is right at the fucking edge, Rittersport.

....

Sorry! Won't happen again.

RS

suranyi 02-02-2019 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 21466544)
Speaking of 'off,' I was sure wrong about him resigning today!

What a fucking nightmare for Virginia Democrats.

This is why I don’t make political predictions. A week ago Virginia Democrats seemed unstoppable. Now this.

octopus 02-02-2019 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omar Little (Post 21466541)
Wait a minute, let’s give this guy a chance to explain himself. Maybe he was in Maryland at the time at a party with Squee lifting weights and drinking beer!

I’m looking forward to the SNL opener that will reenact this incident.

hajario 02-02-2019 04:50 PM

I am surprised that we have yet to hear from anyone who was in med school with him or the editor of that year book. If we have that one page, we should, by now have the whole thing online.

Sherrerd 02-02-2019 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blank Slate (Post 21465954)
It's a damn shame a solid progressive like Tom Periello lost to Northam in the primary. I lived in Charlottesville briefly and had the pleasure of voting for him in his successful run for Congress in 2008. Periello always knew which party reflected his own values. Northam voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004, and ran as a Demcrat forthe state senate in 2007 because he didn't stand a chance of unseating the Republican incumbent in the primary. Always beware of conversions borne by expedience. The GOP can have him back.

I will bet you a dollar that Northam (inevitably, within 48 hours, I think) resigns---and announces he is now a proud member of the Republican Party, because that is the party of integrity, not like those nasty Democrats.

And the GOP will embrace him enthusiastically.

SlackerInc 02-02-2019 04:55 PM

That’s horrifying. Probably more consequential for the Democratic Party as a whole is his abortion stance, which pro-abortion rights activists pressure all Dems to adopt. A majority of Americans support the right to first trimester abortion but not so much after that. Which is where Democrats should plant themselves to best contrast themselves with “every sperm is sacred” or at least “life begins at conception” extremists.

Tamerlane 02-02-2019 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraVires (Post 21466546)
But a white person now in 2019 simply cannot portray a black person at these informal gatherings?

Nope, not IMO and for the reasons iiandyiiii stated. It's a bit like not being able to get away using a swastika in your wedding procession even though you are a devout Buddhist and it has nothing to do with Nazism in your eyes. You can get away with it if you're Robert Downey Junior in a major motion picture, but only if you approach it from exactly the right angle( which Tropic Thunder did IMHO ).

Sherrerd 02-02-2019 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamerlane (Post 21466732)
Nope, not IMO and for the reasons iiandyiiii stated. It's a bit like not being able to get away using a swastika in your wedding procession even though you are a devout Buddhist and it has nothing to do with Nazism in your eyes. You can get away with it if you're Robert Downey Junior in a major motion picture, but only if you approach it from exactly the right angle( which Tropic Thunder did IMHO ).

Yep. Immortal line chastising the black-face Downey Jr. character, given to one of the main characters who was a black guy:

Quote:

You're Australian. Be Australian.


(my emphasis)

JohnT 02-02-2019 05:16 PM

When you're getting trolled by North Korea, ya gotta go.

https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status...428278272?s=19

Left Hand of Dorkness 02-02-2019 05:24 PM

His insistence he's not in the photos is bizarre.

Who's in the photos?

The idiot in blackface shouldn't be too hard to identify for some enterprising reporter. When that idiot is found, they can be gently asked to tell who the idiot in the hood is.

That photo has a story and a history and a setting and a context. Finding that out seems the next step.

And Northam needs to give a complete goddamn account of anything at all he knows about that photo--and if it comes out that he's prevaricating even the slightest, that it.

But the whole thing is so bizarre.

Mr Smashy 02-02-2019 05:26 PM

Not too good a week for the Dems. First Lieawatha has to apologize to the Cherokees and admit that she isn't an indian. Then it comes out that Kamala slept her way to the top (although I'm not crazy about her new campaign slogan, "I'm with Whore"). Then Northam (D-Racist) says it's OK to kill kids after birth. Now he also admits to wearing blackface.

Ouch.

Mr Smashy 02-02-2019 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlackerInc (Post 21466730)
That’s horrifying. Probably more consequential for the Democratic Party as a whole is his abortion stance, which pro-abortion rights activists pressure all Dems to adopt. A majority of Americans support the right to first trimester abortion but not so much after that. Which is where Democrats should plant themselves to best contrast themselves with “every sperm is sacred” or at least “life begins at conception” extremists.

The guy is on tape on WTOP saying it's OK to consider killing a baby.... after it is born. Yeesh.

k9bfriender 02-02-2019 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlackerInc (Post 21466730)
That’s horrifying. Probably more consequential for the Democratic Party as a whole is his abortion stance, which pro-abortion rights activists pressure all Dems to adopt. A majority of Americans support the right to first trimester abortion but not so much after that. Which is where Democrats should plant themselves to best contrast themselves with “every sperm is sacred” or at least “life begins at conception” extremists.

How likely do you think it will be that Democrats will share that unsupported and incorrect view of his position on abortion?

I certainly see republicans pushing that line, trying to convince democrats to stop supporting him based on that sort of falsehood, but I like to think that democrats will be able to avoid falling for such lies.

bobot 02-02-2019 05:35 PM

Paraphrasing his new story: Oh yeah, I've done the blackface thing before, just not that particular time because I would goldurrned remember standing next to a guy dressed up as a kkk dude, and I don't, so there.

SlackerInc 02-02-2019 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9bfriender (Post 21466779)
How likely do you think it will be that Democrats will share that unsupported and incorrect view of his position on abortion?

I certainly see republicans pushing that line, trying to convince democrats to stop supporting him based on that sort of falsehood, but I like to think that democrats will be able to avoid falling for such lies.


What was it in my comment that you quoted that was an “unsupported” and “incorrect” “falsehood”? :dubious:

Mr Smashy 02-02-2019 05:53 PM

Democrats: "Yeah, I know we made the Grand Cyclops of the KKK our Senate leader, but that just doesn't seem racist enough"

Northam: "Hold my beer"

Chronos 02-02-2019 05:53 PM

As to how this came out now, my guess is that someone said to a friend, "Hey, I went to school with the Governor. Here, let me show you my yearbook... wait, what the hell!?". This person, whoever it was, never noticed the picture before because usually, when you get your yearbook, you check all of the pages that have you on them, you maybe check the pages for your friends, and then you flip through a few other pages at random and put it on a shelf to gather dust. Some other folks might have noticed the picture before, but, well, we already know that there's at least one other person in his circle of friends who's cool with this sort of costuming. In other words, it wasn't any particular reason for it coming out now; it just happened to be now.

But as for that... The one page in the yearbook that everyone does turn to is their own. In the schools I've been at, they even give all of the buyers a little slip of paper saying what pages they're on. If that's not him in the picture, why didn't he raise holy Hell as soon as he saw it?

k9bfriender 02-02-2019 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlackerInc (Post 21466797)
What was it in my comment that you quoted that was an “unsupported” and “incorrect” “falsehood”? :dubious:

Nothing in your comment was a falsehood. Simply that I took it that you implied that republicans would mischaracterize his position with falsehoods.

They seem to think that he supports killing babies after birth, and that he supports a bill that would allow late term abortion on demand, and will push that lie. I am just of the opinion that democrats are not stupid enough to fall for it.

k9bfriender 02-02-2019 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos (Post 21466806)
As to how this came out now, my guess is that someone said to a friend, "Hey, I went to school with the Governor. Here, let me show you my yearbook... wait, what the hell!?". This person, whoever it was, never noticed the picture before because usually, when you get your yearbook, you check all of the pages that have you on them, you maybe check the pages for your friends, and then you flip through a few other pages at random and put it on a shelf to gather dust. Some other folks might have noticed the picture before, but, well, we already know that there's at least one other person in his circle of friends who's cool with this sort of costuming. In other words, it wasn't any particular reason for it coming out now; it just happened to be now.

But as for that... The one page in the yearbook that everyone does turn to is their own. In the schools I've been at, they even give all of the buyers a little slip of paper saying what pages they're on. If that's not him in the picture, why didn't he raise holy Hell as soon as he saw it?

I have no idea, but how popular are college year books? I have friends who went to and graduated college, and none of them have a yearbook. Maybe med school is different, and the students are more interested in them.

Complete speculation, but I would not be surprised if he has never owned or even opened a copy of his 1985 medical college year book.

Mr Smashy 02-02-2019 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9bfriender (Post 21466811)
Nothing in your comment was a falsehood. Simply that I took it that you implied that republicans would mischaracterize his position with falsehoods.

They seem to think that he supports killing babies after birth, and that he supports a bill that would allow late term abortion on demand, and will push that lie. I am just of the opinion that democrats are not stupid enough to fall for it.

Except that IS what Northam said. His quote was:

"If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."

This was in the context of partial birth abortion. What did you think they were going to talk about, whether the Nats should re-sign Harper?

Sherrerd 02-02-2019 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9bfriender (Post 21466814)
I have no idea, but how popular are college year books? I have friends who went to and graduated college, and none of them have a yearbook. Maybe med school is different, and the students are more interested in them.

Complete speculation, but I would not be surprised if he has never owned or even opened a copy of his 1985 medical college year book.

I believe he has said exactly that.

And as hajario commented a few pages back, most of us wouldn't assume that there even is such a thing as a "medical school yearbook." So the fact that neither Democrats nor opposition-researching Republicans looked for one, may be less surprising than initial reactions would indicate.

SlackerInc 02-02-2019 06:30 PM

Good point. I think of yearbooks as mainly a high school thing.

Bone 02-02-2019 06:36 PM

Moderating
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Smashy (Post 21466770)
Not too good a week for the Dems. First Lieawatha has to apologize to the Cherokees and admit that she isn't an indian. Then it comes out that Kamala slept her way to the top (although I'm not crazy about her new campaign slogan, "I'm with Whore"). Then Northam (D-Racist) says it's OK to kill kids after birth. Now he also admits to wearing blackface.

Ouch.

I'm not sure which is more offputting - the thinly veiled racism or the misogyny. Both are not appropriate here. While the recent story about Harris and Brown is in the news and discussion may or not be appropriate - insinuating she slept her way to the top and the whore comment are not without actual evidence. Knock it off.

[/moderating]

Thudlow Boink 02-02-2019 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9bfriender (Post 21466814)
I have no idea, but how popular are college year books? I have friends who went to and graduated college, and none of them have a yearbook.

I'm guessing they're more popular at a small, perhaps residential college where everybody knows everybody else, than at a large university or a commuter college.

dalej42 02-02-2019 06:46 PM

Yeah, we may have had a yearbook in college, but I sure don’t remember it. I know I had my photo taken for my college ID when I was a freshman and I think I had to get a new one for my junior year, but we certainly didn’t have the annual photo sessions like we did in high school.

Perhaps a medical school is different as you’re more likely to know most of your classmates as opposed to a large undergraduate university. But, even still, I can t imagine having much of an interest in yearbooks at 25.

Fun fact: my senior year high school yearbook has only a few signatures since they were delayed and we didn’t get them until after graduation. We had a post graduation yearbook signing party, but most people had already gone their separate ways.

DrDeth 02-02-2019 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Smashy (Post 21466850)
Except that IS what Northam said. His quote was:

"If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."

How does that allow for the killing of said infant?

Jonathan Chance 02-02-2019 07:21 PM

The Moderator Speaks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Smashy (Post 21466805)
Democrats: "Yeah, I know we made the Grand Cyclops of the KKK our Senate leader, but that just doesn't seem racist enough"

Northam: "Hold my beer"

I already declared Byrd to be out of bounds.

Warning issued. Be better.

RTFirefly 02-02-2019 07:48 PM

Sens. Tim Kaine and Mark Warner, and Rep. Bobby Scott, have made a joint statement saying Northam needs to resign.

Earlier in the day, I noticed statements to that effect from Biden, Pelosi, and Bernie Sanders.

It's getting to the point where the list of major VA and US Dem politicians who haven't said Northam should resign is shorter than the list of those that have.

Northern Piper 02-02-2019 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherrerd (Post 21466852)
I believe he has said exactly that.



And as hajario commented a few pages back, most of us wouldn't assume that there even is such a thing as a "medical school yearbook." So the fact that neither Democrats nor opposition-researching Republicans looked for one, may be less surprising than initial reactions would indicate.



Then they're incompetent. They shouldn't assume anything, but actually do, you know, research!

I may be biased by the fact that I have yearbooks for all three years I was in law school. I'm not surprised that there were med school yearbooks.

Chronos 02-02-2019 08:20 PM

My college had a yearbook. And while it might not occur to us to look for them, well, we're not professional opposition researchers.

nearwildheaven 02-02-2019 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 21465933)
It was med school. These were adults. They didn't need a faculty advisor.

Hell, I was on the college paper during my undergraduate days in the early to mid 1970s. I don't think we even had a faculty advisor, but if we did, his role would have had to be pretty minimal, because I have no memory of such a person.

Editor, advisor, whatever - obviously a nutcase here. :dubious:

Northern Piper 02-02-2019 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hajario (Post 21466722)
I am surprised that we have yet to hear from anyone who was in med school with him or the editor of that year book. If we have that one page, we should, by now have the whole thing online.



They're too busy shredding their own copies, having looked at their own pages from 30+ years ago, and recoiledv in horror, saying "What was I thinking?!?"

nearwildheaven 02-02-2019 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asahi (Post 21466480)
What's amazing is that it hadn't been leaked before. Any of his old classmates must have kept on old yearbook laying around somewhere, and I'm sure some of them remembered the photo - that image is kinda hard to un-see and forget. Northam's career in politics has pretty much coincided with the social media age, so it's remarkable that he made it this far without being exposed already. I guess it's only in the past few months that his profile has been big enough for his opponents to care.

Agreed.

I do understand that people generally don't look at their yearbooks much after they initially get them, BUT even if he didn't have one, SOMEONE would have had to let their kids, for instance, look at it, and the kids would say something like, "Is that the same man who's the governor?"


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