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-   -   Virginia gov. yearbook page has Klan and blackface pictures (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=870014)

Left Hand of Dorkness 02-10-2019 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omar Little (Post 21480161)
Those black politicians calling on Northampton to resign:

The entire Virginia legislative black caucus
The nation's and Virginia's first black governor: Douglas Wilder
Former Atty general, Eric Holder
Sen. Kamala Harris
NAACP president Derrick Johnson
Rep. Bobby Scott

I mean, yeah, it's interesting. I don't understand the reason for the difference between "All the Virginia legislative black caucus say to resign" and "only a little more than a third of black Virginians want him to resign." But the difference is there, and we should be looking at it.

Just as blackface's impact is largely symbolic, it's possible the caucus's calls for resignation are largely symbolic. Maybe they know he's unlikely to resign, but want him to recognize what thin ice he's on.

Or maybe the poll was taken at a different point during this clusterfuck of a news story than the caucus's call was made.

I dunno. It's interesting.

Snowboarder Bo 02-10-2019 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gov. Ralph Northam
Virginia needs someone that can heal. There’s no better person to do that than a doctor. Virginia also needs someone who is strong, who has empathy, who has courage and who has a moral compass. And that’s why I’m not going anywhere.

https://apnews.com/46f93a03c59740938ed521eb92b81cc6

Chronos 02-10-2019 05:33 PM

You know who's better at healing racial divides than a doctor?

Someone who doesn't think it's funny to dress in blackface with a KKK member

Snowboarder Bo 02-10-2019 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos (Post 21481313)
Someone who doesn't think it's funny to dress in blackface with a KKK member

Do you think that accurately describes Ralph Northam right now?

tomndebb 02-10-2019 08:59 PM

Moderating
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Royal Nonesutch (Post 21480436)
Like the old saying goes, "Better the Dr. Coonman you know..."

Dropping a racial slur (even if anti-white and even if originally spoken/written by the subject of the thread) does nothing to move the discussion forward.
Do not do this again.
[ /Moderating ]

DSYoungEsq 02-11-2019 08:59 AM

:eek: Just to make things really easy on him, the Governor yesterday referred on a news talk program to the first slaves brought to Virginia as "indentured servants".

Chronos 02-11-2019 09:11 AM

Quote:

Quoth Snowboarder Bo:

Do you think that accurately describes Ralph Northam right now?
He's given no reason to think otherwise.

Inbred Mm domesticus 02-11-2019 09:18 AM

Indentured servants? I’d bet he believes the Civil War was about States’ Rights and calls it the War of Northern Aggression.

Gyrate 02-11-2019 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq (Post 21482086)
:eek: Just to make things really easy on him, the Governor yesterday referred on a news talk program to the first slaves brought to Virginia as "indentured servants".

To quote Wikipedia:
Quote:

In 1619, the first documented Africans came to Jamestown—about 50 men, women, and children aboard a Portuguese slave ship that had been captured in the West Indies and brought to the Jamestown region. They most likely worked in the tobacco fields as indentured servants. The modern conception of slavery in the United States was formalized in 1640 (the John Punch hearing) and was fully entrenched in Virginia by 1660.
Bolding mine.

CarnalK 02-11-2019 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inbred Mm domesticus (Post 21482120)
Indentured servants? I’d bet he believes the Civil War was about States’ Rights and calls it the War of Northern Aggression.

He's technically correct, apparently, but that was a pretty dumb thing to say.
Quote:

That same year [1619], the first Africans (around 50 men, women and children) arrived in the English settlement; they had been on a Portuguese slave ship captured in the West Indies and brought to the Jamestown region. They worked as indentured servants at first (the race-based slavery system developed in North America in the 1680s) and were most likely put to work picking tobacco.
https://www.history.com/topics/colon...rica/jamestown

Eta: ninja'd!

He did acknowledge that in the interview:
Quote:

Well, it has been a difficult week,” Northam said. “And — and, you know, if you look at Virginia’s history we’re now at the 400-year anniversary, just 90 miles from here in 1619 the first indentured servants from Africa landed on our shores in Old Point Comfort, what we call now Fort Monroe.”

CBS interviewer Gayle King interjected: “Also known as slavery.”

“Yes,” Northam said.

RTFirefly 02-11-2019 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarnalK (Post 21482149)
He's technically correct, apparently, but that was a pretty dumb thing to say.

https://www.history.com/topics/colon...rica/jamestown

Eta: ninja'd!

He did acknowledge that in the interview:

Depends on one's definition of 'technically' AFAICT:
Quote:

The social status of the first Africans in Jamestown was confusing, and perhaps deliberately ambiguous. Records from 1623 and 1624 list the black inhabitants of the colony as servants, not slaves. In these same records, however, white indentured servants are listed along with the year in which they were to attain freedom; no such year accompanies the names of black servants.

Rick Kitchen 02-11-2019 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq (Post 21482086)
:eek: Just to make things really easy on him, the Governor yesterday referred on a news talk program to the first slaves brought to Virginia as "indentured servants".

The first slaves brought to Virginia were indentured servants.

RTFirefly 02-12-2019 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen (Post 21482714)
The first slaves brought to Virginia were indentured servants.

So are you saying the first slaves brought to Virginia weren't really slaves, but rather indentured servants who could expect to be freed at the end of their term?

Or are you saying they were called indentured servants, but were in fact slaves?

I'm genuinely unclear on your meaning.

slash2k 02-12-2019 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTFirefly (Post 21483864)
So are you saying the first slaves brought to Virginia weren't really slaves, but rather indentured servants who could expect to be freed at the end of their term?

Or are you saying they were called indentured servants, but were in fact slaves?

I'm genuinely unclear on your meaning.

At least some of the blacks originally brought to Virginia as "indentured servants" eventually did earn their freedom; see for example Anthony Johnson. Others seem to have been in a murkier status; Johnson himself owned the contract for John Casor and was not obligated to release him at the end of term. There's actually a fair amount of debate among historians about the transition from indentured servitude to slavery for Africans in Virginia Colony, and it's not altogether clear what the correct answer is.

Falchion 02-12-2019 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slash2k (Post 21484346)
At least some of the blacks originally brought to Virginia as "indentured servants" eventually did earn their freedom; see for example Anthony Johnson. Others seem to have been in a murkier status; Johnson himself owned the contract for John Casor and was not obligated to release him at the end of term. There's actually a fair amount of debate among historians about the transition from indentured servitude to slavery for Africans in Virginia Colony, and it's not altogether clear what the correct answer is.

I understand that we say that its murky. But I thought it was fairly well established that the first blacks in Virginia (the "20 and odd Negroes") were capture from a Portuguese slave ship and brought to Virginia. How could there be a term of indenture under those circumstances?

CarnalK 02-12-2019 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falchion (Post 21484373)
I understand that we say that its murky. But I thought it was fairly well established that the first blacks in Virginia (the "20 and odd Negroes") were capture from a Portuguese slave ship and brought to Virginia. How could there be a term of indenture under those circumstances?

Because of the laws on the books at the time. Slavery didn't get enshrined into law in Virginia until around 1640.

slash2k 02-12-2019 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falchion (Post 21484373)
I understand that we say that its murky. But I thought it was fairly well established that the first blacks in Virginia (the "20 and odd Negroes") were capture from a Portuguese slave ship and brought to Virginia. How could there be a term of indenture under those circumstances?

The legal institution of slavery, the framework of laws setting the rules for holding people in servitude for life, didn't exist yet in Virginia. However, there was an existing system for buying and selling indenture contracts, so it is at least plausible to see a situation where the rules of indenture were applied to these strangers who arrived by other means. For example, "I have to pay $X per year for a contract for this English or Scottish immigrant; I have to pay $X * Y for this African person, so we'll consider that to be Y years' term of service for him to work off what I paid for his labor."

Rick Kitchen 02-12-2019 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falchion (Post 21484373)
I understand that we say that its murky. But I thought it was fairly well established that the first blacks in Virginia (the "20 and odd Negroes") were capture from a Portuguese slave ship and brought to Virginia. How could there be a term of indenture under those circumstances?

The Africans had been baptized as Christians when they were under Portuguese control, and in those days, the English couldn't bring themselves to enslave baptized Christians.

Allegedly.

octopus 02-21-2019 02:53 PM

The honorable governor of Virginia has demonstrated the perfect response to these sort of things. Wait a week or two and the media will have moved on.

Covfefe 02-21-2019 03:14 PM

Perhaps that is working out for him. It seems most of the prior aftermath was rocky and handled clumsily by him. It got to the point half the time I'd see a headline about him, I'd have to make sure it wasn't coming from The Onion.

Covfefe 02-27-2019 06:38 PM

.....

Quote:

A Virginia state employee has complained that her eighth-grade daughter was upset during a tour of the historic governor’s residence when first lady Pam Northam handed raw cotton to her and another African American child and asked them to imagine being enslaved and having to pick the crop.

“The Governor and Mrs. Northam have asked the residents of the Commonwealth to forgive them for their racially insensitive past actions,” Leah Dozier Walker, who oversees the Office of Equity and Community Engagement at the state Education Department, wrote Feb. 25 to lawmakers and the office of Gov. Ralph Northam (D).

“But the actions of Mrs. Northam, just last week, do not lead me to believe that this Governor’s office has taken seriously the harm and hurt they have caused African Americans in Virginia or that they are deserving of our forgiveness,” she wrote.
Isn't he going to get sick of his every move being under a microscope at some point?

alphaboi867 02-28-2019 09:17 PM

Isn't that a standard part of the tour for all visitors, regardless of race?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Bijou Drains 05-22-2019 03:36 PM

Investigation says they can't determine if he is in the picture in blackface

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/22/72579...re-scandal-bro


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