Straight Dope Message Board

Straight Dope Message Board (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/index.php)
-   Cafe Society (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   No olives?!? What goes in the Martini, then? (https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=800169)

Ukulele Ike 08-02-2016 09:53 PM

No olives?!? What goes in the Martini, then?
 
I don't care for lemon peel. If I want boozy lemonade, I'll make a Tom Collins.

No green olives in the fridge tonight. No pickled onions for a Gibson.

So I made a big dollop of iced gin with a splash of vermouth and dropped a piparra in the bottom of the glass. That's a small mild Basque pepper pickled in vinegar. It was EXCELLENT. I may dub it the "Ukulele Ike."

What other pickled things have you put in your Martinis when no olives were available? Or WOULD you?

I wouldn't use a kosher half-sour; it would displace too much gin.

The Other Waldo Pepper 08-02-2016 09:55 PM

I've never tried 'em, but my father swears by pickled pearl onions.

TriPolar 08-02-2016 10:10 PM

Best bet is a vodka martini, hold the vermouth and the garnish.

Ukulele Ike 08-02-2016 10:25 PM

Thanks for nothing, buddies.

I said "no pickled onions," and cold vodka in a glass is a drink only fit for a pig of a Krushchev. Unless I have a spread of good caviare and pickled mushrooms.

teela brown 08-02-2016 10:34 PM

I'll bet one of those little French cornichons would go well. They're pretty tiny, too, so they won't take up too much room.

madmonk28 08-02-2016 10:36 PM

Cold vodka is not a martini, it's cold vodka is for people who don't like booze. Try a pickled jalapeño or cherry pepper.

Little Nemo 08-02-2016 10:39 PM

Wouldn't be a problem around here. I'd just run over to the local Walmart (which is open twenty-four hours a day) and buy a jar of olives.

This is what you get for choosing to live in a small town that doesn't offer the conveniences of modern living.

standingwave 08-02-2016 11:22 PM

No olives?! Where are you, Korea? Without olives, a martini just doesn’t quite make it: https://youtu.be/2lDyDx32YJE#t=2m40s

__________
If you must, this sounds interesting... (but to hell with vodka, I'd make it with gin.)

Garlic Black Pepper Vodka Martini

2 ounces vodka, Hangar 1 used here*
1/2 ounce dry vermouth, Vya Extra Dry used here
1 garlic clove, sliced
2 grinds black pepper, on the coarse side

In a shaker 2/3 filled with ice, combine vodka, vermouth, garlic slices and black pepper. Shake hard for 20 seconds and strain into a chilled cocktail glass. Optionally add the garlic slices back to the glass.

Aspenglow 08-02-2016 11:27 PM

No vodka.

In the absence of an olive, I'd use a pickled green bean. Or two. (Also delicious in Bloody Marys!)

TYphoonSignal8 08-03-2016 02:16 AM

Pickled ginger.

Channing Idaho Banks 08-03-2016 02:37 AM

Pickled tomato. Or Pickled herring.

Smapti 08-03-2016 04:07 AM

Never tried it, but for some reason I'm thinking a cube of bleu cheese would work well.

yo han go 08-03-2016 08:19 AM

Raw chicken heart just scratched from your bare foot would also be a good alternative. (Might be that we are escalating this to quickly)

RealityChuck 08-03-2016 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper (Post 19526030)
I've never tried 'em, but my father swears by pickled pearl onions.

That's a Gibson, not a martini.

Ike Witt 08-03-2016 09:29 AM

What is the difference between a Gibson and a Martini? Is is just the garnish?

Ukulele Ike 08-03-2016 10:24 AM

Yeah...you can have a Martini with a twist of lemon or a Martini with an olive, but you have to call a Martini with a pickled onion a Gibson.

DrFidelius 08-03-2016 11:06 AM

I have a copy of an ultimate martini book around here somewhere. If I can find it I can read off some of the alternative garnishes.

One I remember is to use some hot sauce instead of vermouth and garnish with a shrimp. I think this would work better with a vodka martini than most gins.

JRDelirious 08-03-2016 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmonk28 (Post 19526126)
Cold vodka is not a martini, it's cold vodka is for people who don't like booze. Try a pickled jalapeño or cherry pepper.

Ya got it, a martini contains gin (default) or vodka, plus a measurable, detectable amount of vermouth. Garnished iced vodka/gin is not a martini.

Ukulele Ike 08-03-2016 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrFidelius (Post 19527110)
One I remember is to use some hot sauce instead of vermouth and garnish with a shrimp.

A COOKED shrimp, I hope.

At what point does changing the garnish (or the vermouth ingredient) change the name of the drink? There's an English thing where they put a few dashes of bitters into a glass of gin, but that's just called a "pink gin."

If you put a whiskey sour into a tall glass, filled it with ice, and topped it with seltzer, you'd have a John Collins, the whiskey alternative to a Tom Collins. But making the same drink with vodka or rum yields a Vodka Collins or a Rum Collins....no proper Christian name given.

A Gimlet is a whiskey sour made with gin. A Daiquiri is a Gimlet made with rum.

I think I need to go lie down.

JRDelirious 08-03-2016 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike (Post 19527298)
If you put a whiskey sour into a tall glass, filled it with ice, and topped it with seltzer, you'd have a John Collins, the whiskey alternative to a Tom Collins. But making the same drink with vodka or rum yields a Vodka Collins or a Rum Collins....no proper Christian name given.

A Gimlet is a whiskey sour made with gin. A Daiquiri is a Gimlet made with rum.

I think I need to go lie down.

Y'know, you didn't have to sample them all.

Tim R. Mortiss 08-04-2016 10:49 AM

My first choice of martini garnish is always a pickled mushroom. Blue cheese stuffed olive is second.

But I have had a very nice martini garnished with a black olive stuffed with salmon mousse. That was good!

Duke of Rat 08-04-2016 11:10 AM

I'd think any pickled veggie would do in a pinch, it's the vinegary whang that the olive brings to the drink that you're after, right?

dougie_monty 08-04-2016 11:20 AM

How about a cherry?
In one old magazine cartoon a hostess tells her shocked guests, some of whom have already started sipping their martinis,
"I was out of olives, so I used clams."

DrDeth 08-04-2016 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriPolar (Post 19526070)
Best bet is a vodka martini, hold the vermouth and the garnish.


We call that "straight vodka". There's no martini there. It's like "a margarita , hold the triple sec and lime, no salt". aka straight tequila.

pulykamell 08-04-2016 11:37 AM

Actually, a gin sour is a different drink than a gimlet. Similar, sure, but not the same. If I ask for a gimlet and get gin and sour, it's getting sent back. Gin and Rose's for me, or Roses cut with lime juice if you're feeling fancy. I've made it with homemade like syrup, but I just need the Rose's for it to taste right to me.

AllShookDown 08-04-2016 12:07 PM

I have no idea but I got an olive in my manhattan when I ordered one at a craft beer bar because I just couldn't choke down another bitter craft beer.

OldGuy 08-04-2016 12:55 PM

If you use a black olive it could be an Althea Gibson.

Though that name is likely too old for most of you.

Little Nemo 08-04-2016 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrFidelius (Post 19527110)
One I remember is to use some hot sauce instead of vermouth and garnish with a shrimp.

A Treiftini.

harmonicamoon 08-04-2016 08:58 PM

A friend of mine would make martunis with a pickled tomato. I never really liked martunis, but I loved those pickled tomatoes. They were about the size of a nickel. Delicious.

Saint Cad 08-04-2016 09:06 PM

Too bad I just threw out an old jar of pickled jalapeno slices. I'd experiment and let you know.

Ukulele Ike 08-04-2016 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Rat (Post 19529675)
I'd think any pickled veggie would do in a pinch, it's the vinegary whang that the olive brings to the drink that you're after, right?

Good point. You want a lashing of salt and vinegar as you sip the last of the drink.

Still, you want to avoid certain flavors. I have some cornichon-sized garlic-dill pickles that are extremely delicious, but I don't think I want garlic or dill in my aperitif.

The piparra, though, was delightful.

wolfman 08-04-2016 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike (Post 19527004)
Yeah...you can have a Martini with a twist of lemon or a Martini with an olive, but you have to call a Martini with a pickled onion a Gibson.

So If you made one with an olive half and an onion half stuck together you'd have a Martison?

Duke of Rat 08-05-2016 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Cad (Post 19531173)
Too bad I just threw out an old jar of pickled jalapeno slices. I'd experiment and let you know.

I love using jalapeno stuffed olives, something about the heat/booze just does it for me.

kayT 08-05-2016 11:10 AM

If you come to my house and there are no green olives in my fridge, bake a casserole because I am dead.

Ukulele Ike 08-05-2016 12:16 PM

That came off as rather macabre on first reading....

Vinyl Turnip 08-05-2016 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TYphoonSignal8 (Post 19526473)
Pickled ginger.

No need for name-calling.

Voyager 08-05-2016 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Cad (Post 19531173)
Too bad I just threw out an old jar of pickled jalapeno slices. I'd experiment and let you know.

About the only martini I've had in 30 years is a Cajun martini made with a jalapeno. It was part of a special Cajun menu set up by Paul Prudhomme to educate New Yorkers about real Cajun food.

dougie_monty 08-05-2016 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip (Post 19532632)
No need for name-calling.

Maybe Ginger SHOULD lay off the sauce. ;)

swampspruce 08-05-2016 12:58 PM

Do you like limes? A twist of lime peel, a small slice of key lime, or a bit of meyer lemon peel also does the trick. My wife doesn't like lemons at all, but she does like limes and meyer lemons so that's what goes in hers. I get three jalapeno or blue cheese stuffed olives in mine.
I've also been playing around with bitters and Dillon's wormwood bitters was really good for a change up. I like using Tanquery 10 or Hendrick's for gin.

Ukulele Ike 08-05-2016 02:39 PM

Blue cheese stuffed olives seem to be a Chicago thing. I'm frequently offered them when I'm in the Windy City.

My preference is anchovy-stuffed, but I like anchovies. Francesca's on Taylor Street has a barkeep that will stuff an anchovy into a naked pitted olive just for me. I tip him well.

Here in New York, custom olives don't happen to me in bars. I keep my eye out for anchovy-stuffed olives in fancy-food stores, although I have also found them in ordinary groceries.

Baker 08-05-2016 08:50 PM

Ukelele Ike, this is a hijack, but if you like anchovies I want to know, have you ever tried bagna cauda, the hot oil dip from Italy?

As Dr. Franklin said to Michaeal Garibaldi, on Babylon 5, "I can feel my arteries hardening just being in the same room with it."

dougie_monty 08-05-2016 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baker (Post 19533632)
Ukelele Ike, this is a hijack, but if you like anchovies I want to know, have you ever tried Bagna Cauda, the hot oil dip from Italy?
[...]

What about him? :D

BubbaDog 08-08-2016 02:59 PM

I have a case of queen olives each stuffed with a garlic clove and a Jalapeno slice shipped to my house twice a year.

I get them from a winery in Gilroy California which claims to be the Garlic capitol of the world. Any martini without two of those olives is an inferior drink.

RealityChuck 08-08-2016 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike Witt (Post 19526879)
What is the difference between a Gibson and a Martini? Is is just the garnish?

Pretty much. Both are gin and vermouth, plus garnish. There are variations in the ratios of gin to vermouth, but martinis have variations of that, too. Wikipedia gives the same ratio of gin and vermouth for both drinks: 6:1.

Of course, nowadays, martini usually signifies "vodka martini," just as it used to signify "dry martini." "Martini" was the name of a different drink with a 1:1 ratio of gin and sweet vermouth.

DrFidelius 08-08-2016 04:41 PM

I have learned to order "martini, gin, dry, olives, up" when in prior years I only needed to say "a Martini, please."

Duke of Rat 08-08-2016 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubbaDog (Post 19538835)
I have a case of queen olives each stuffed with a garlic clove and a Jalapeno slice shipped to my house twice a year.

I get them from a winery in Gilroy California which claims to be the Garlic capitol of the world. Any martini without two of those olives is an inferior drink.

These Mezzetta Olives are the ones at my grocery. Love 'em, even without booze.

DrDeth 08-08-2016 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrFidelius (Post 19539140)
I have learned to order "martini, gin, dry, olives, up" when in prior years I only needed to say "a Martini, please."

up?

bump 08-08-2016 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulykamell (Post 19529761)
Actually, a gin sour is a different drink than a gimlet. Similar, sure, but not the same. If I ask for a gimlet and get gin and sour, it's getting sent back. Gin and Rose's for me, or Roses cut with lime juice if you're feeling fancy. I've made it with homemade like syrup, but I just need the Rose's for it to taste right to me.

Yup. And a daiquiri is essentially a rum sour made with lime juice instead of lemon (or vice-versa; I think the daiquiri came first).

Cocktails/mixed drinks come in "families", which means that they're essentially the same drink, but made with slightly different ingredients. So a daiquiri and a whiskey sour fall into the same family- both are spirits, sour & sugar. Similarly, the older versions of the Martini (gin, vermouth, orange bitters) fall very squarely into the same family as the Manhattan (bourbon, red vermouth, aromatic bitters).

Garnishes typically aren't the decisive factor in the naming of a drink; most of the older ones (like say.. pre-Prohibition) had fast and loose garnishing rules- if you read the old books, there are rarely any hard and fast rules- they suggest things like nuts as garnishes in martinis, etc...

Aspenglow 08-08-2016 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDeth (Post 19539166)
up?

Not over ice.

madmonk28 08-08-2016 05:59 PM

Having a martini right now: 3oz Bombay, 1/4 oz Dolin vermouth, dash of Jade v.s. 1898 absinthe and an olive stuffed with almond. Not bad.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:45 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2017 Sun-Times Media, LLC.