View Single Post
Old 04-01-2019, 10:51 AM
Whack-a-Mole's Avatar
Whack-a-Mole is offline
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 21,176
Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Whack-a-Mole can you not appreciate that Stephanie Carter feels violated by people like you appropriating her image and making up a story to go with it, appropriating her right to her lived experience?
No I don't. I mean, how she describes her feelings of the event is fine. That is totally up to her.

But she was in a very public situation with lots and lots of pictures being taken. She has zero expectation of privacy in that moment.

And, since it jibes very closely with what Flores described it is in the news. Carter can feel "violated" by this all she wants but I see no reason the picture should not be circulated in light of what is in the news. It has been out there for awhile...has Carter been working diligently to get it out of circulation? I'd bet she hasn't.

Passing along cherry picked images in no context of people, insinuating how they were were being mistreated, without their consent and without them claiming such, is violating these people and appropriating their lived experiences for propaganda purposes. It is no more illegal than a kiss on the back of the head without consent, but it is in my mind worse ethically, and much creepier.

As for the question "do men need to explicitly ask for consent before touching a woman?" More appropriately: do humans need to explicitly ask for consent before touching another human?

And I think even you'd agree with iiandyiiii here that it is context and situational dependent. Tapping another person on the shoulder on the subway after they do not hear your excuse me request to move so you get get out? Touching someone with your hip on their hip or even backside as you squeeze by? No verbal consent needed. A third grade teacher holding the hand of a student as they cross the street walking on a field trip? A friend seeing a friend in distress and putting a hand on should or holding their hand? A politician reaching to shake hands or kissing a baby shoved in their face? A doctor reaching out to touch someone who they just gave bad news to?

Consent is sometimes presumed by circumstance.

Intent does matter as well and this is one point where iiandyiiii and I disagree - friendly touch that turns out to be unwanted is not per se "entitlement." That word implies the intent is to get something selfishly and the intent with friendly touch is often meant to be giving something (comfort, support, whatever) not taking. Yes human communication is complicated and there are misunderstandings. With spoken communication and with nonverbal communication. Some people find being addressed by their first name to be nice, others find it presumptuous without explicit consent. Giving something that you thought would be received well that turns out to be something not wanted, is not being entitled; it is being mistaken.
And this news highlights this problem.

We have Flores describing something that looks a lot like what we have many examples of Biden doing, including the picture of Biden and Carter.

Flores flags this as inappropriate.

Carter says it is fine.

Which is it? Who is right?

Is it your position that Biden (or any guy really) can be prosecuted for the same act only depending on how one person feels about that act?
"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any hon. Gentleman will question it." ~John Stuart Mill