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Old 05-22-2008, 02:45 PM
Jodi is offline
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 10,786
Originally Posted by pepperlandgirl
What as my panties in a "deep twist" is the fact that, whether you meant to or not, your post reflected the sort of language routinely used to dismiss authors, publishers, and readers in several circles and for the past several decades.
Again, please have the intellectual honesty to address your complaints to whoever the hell merits your snit-fit. I am not "several circles;" I haven't been talking about this "for the past several decades;" I have not been "dismissive;" and I frankly don't give a good goddam if you agree with me or not. Your disagreement -- based on what others have said in "several circles" for "decades" past -- does not negate my opinion.

People don't read romance novels, even if they might enjoy them, because they're all viewed as "just" bodice-rippers for lonely or frustrated housewives. The implication being that romance novels have nothing to offer a thoughtful person because A)there's no thoughtful content because it's just "wank" material and B)it doesn't matter because it's not targeted to a thoughtful audience. I'm sure all readers of romance are aware of those stereotypes--it is right at the bottom of low culture.
And some of that reputation is deserved. A lot of Romance is badly written, pandering crap. A lot of it is good for what it is, but really has very little literary value: it's delicious, entertaining, mostly forgettable, and not particularly good for you, a written candy bar, IOW. That has NOTHING TO DO with the point I was making, which is that modern romance is trending towards other genres -- a point I still stand by. But as far as it goes: I read romance and I'm not ashamed of it, or of anything else I may choose to read. People who choose their reading material based on other people's opinions deserve to be stuck in Chapter 3 of Ulysses for the rest of their lives as they carry it around to impress others.

Now, take that exact same language and apply it to a specific subgenre--it doesn't automatically lose its baggage or implications, just because you may not have intended it.
The hell it doesn't! I meant what I said and you ACKNOWLEDGE that my intent was not as you have construed it, so if this is some fight you want to have, you'd better start having it with some one who intended to pick it.

It might seem really ridiculous to you--hell it probably is really ridiculous--but this is a hotly debated, hotly defended, ongoing issue in the romance community, and in the larger literature community. It's an issue that affects what is written and published, how it is promoted, how authors are treated, and the reputation of publishers, and how the entire community is dealt with in broader literary circles.
None of which has fuck-all to do with me, and make no mistake: I do find it ridiculous, deeply so. Which is simply another reason to stop acting like your position and/or your objections have anything at all to do with anything I said. I'm serious: You want to make this some industry-wide battle taking place is "the romance community" or "literary circles," you had better leave me the fuck out of it. It is intellectually dishonest of you to misrepresent what I say in order to use my post as a strawman for you to air your personal pet grievances on this topic.

You didn't add anything about "women targeted" fantasy, or "women targeted" suspense--even though women are the presumed and intended audience for the other subgenres (and that does affect how books are written as well as promoted). Why not make that distinction there? Why make it only in relation to sexually explicit material?
Oh, I don't know: Probably because I consider porn and/or erotica to be male-centered genres, and having highly sexualize material aimed specifically at women to be a relatively new trend. Or possibly because I wasn't thinking that some poster with a huge honking chip on her shoulder was going to come along and attempt to nitpick my post to death in order to find it objectionable.

Either way, at this point, you'd better climb the fuck down off of me or I'll be seeing you in the Pit.

Last edited by Jodi; 05-22-2008 at 02:47 PM.