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Old 05-22-2019, 04:42 PM
Half Man Half Wit's Avatar
Half Man Half Wit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
This is nonsense. I'm a computer programmer, and there is a literal, practical, real difference between implementing f and f'.
Then it should be easy for you to point out what those differences are in the example I gave, where the physical system is completely identical in each case, and yet, can be taken to implement both f and f'.


Quote:
I'm not seeing any circularity, viscious or not. You're basically saying that if you reach into a bag of red and blue balls and happen to pull out the red one, the fact that it's red (as opposed to being blue) is due to the fact it's a red one.
No. My claim is, a system only computes once it is interpreted as computing. Computationalism says that only computations can interpret things (or exercise any other mental faculty). Thus, in order to compute, some computation must interpret a system as computing. But this is a vicious circle: if physical system P1 must be interpreted as computing C1 by system P2, and the only way it can do so is by implementing C2, then P2 must first be interpreted by P3 via implementing C3 as computing C2, and so forth.

Obviously, P1 cannot interpret P1 as implementing C1, as to do so, it would have to already be implementing C1 to do the interpreting.









Quote:
Your argument (if it worked, which it doesn't) doesn't just disprove minds being computational - there's nothing about your argument that's specific to mind.
Minds are the only sorts of things we know of that are capable of interpretation, so yes, there's a little bit (you know, it's key point) about my argument that's specific to mind.


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It isn't equvalent at all, of course. Your god argument is trying to pull itself up by its bootstraps; the god in question doesn't even exist until it exercises its powers.
Exactly. Just as C1 doesn't exist before P1 is suitably interpreted, and hence, can't be what does the interpreting.

Last edited by Half Man Half Wit; 05-22-2019 at 04:43 PM.