"American Pie" - the name of the plane???

My brother just sent me a list of stuff, and included on it was the "fact" that the name of the plane Buddy Holly died on was "American Pie". It seems this is too obvious to have never shown up anywhere. Does anyone know if this is true? Do small planes even have names?

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Smile when you say that..

Cecil covered some possible meanings of the lyrics of "American Pie" in Return of the Straight Dope. (I don't think there is an on-line copy of this column available.) And, from memory, I believe he said the song's title was a general reference to the phrase "as American as apple pie", which as I remember it was the general consensus at the time the song came out.

The idea that the doomed plane was named "American Pie" is an urban legend that seems to have cropped up around 1990 or so. (I would guess this was due to a befuddled GenX'er trying to make sense out of one of the more obscure Boomer pop anthems: e.g. "Rosebud" refers to a sled, so "American Pie" must refer to an airplane).

The best review of this topic I found was at the Kentucky Connect site, which notes: "Here is a sampling of correspondence we have received about "February 3, 1959: The Day The Music Died." Many wrote to thank us for our site and to offer suggestions. Some wrote asking for information. We have tried to answer every message. Far and away the most-often asked question was "what was the name of plane." The answer: It did not have a name, just a number: N 3794N.

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whitetho@ipass.net == Thomas H. White == Cary, NC
Radio history page: http://www.ipass.net/~whitetho/index.html

Actually, TSD never said anything about apple pie. For us who actually read books, even Cecil was kinda confused. But for good reason. Mr. McLean said, to quote, "Songwriters should make their statements and move on, maintaining a digified silence". WhatEVER!

Actually, TSD never said anything about apple pie. For us who actually read books, even Cecil was kinda confused. But for good reason. Mr. McLean said, to quote, "Songwriters should make their statements and move on, maintaining a digified silence". WhatEVER!

Actually, TSD never said anything about apple pie. For us who actually read books, even Cecil was kinda confused. But for good reason. Mr. McLean said, to quote, "Songwriters should make their statements and move on, maintaining a digified silence". WhatEVER!

I think some people fail to appreciate the beauty of the English language. The use of metaphor in songs is part of what makes song writing an artform.

Using "Miss American Pie" as a metaphor for a more innocent age is a briliant poetic allusion.

If American Pie was an actual entity (wheather an airplane or a pastry) my respect for McLean's talents as a wordsmith would be greatly deminished.

That Kentucky Connect site was kinda fun to come upon. I live in Lexington and am new to this site.

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"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" -- Albert Einstein

'Weird Al' Yankovic's new Star Wars parody song is based on "American Pie". See The Saga Begins for more details.

The airplane that crashed was a small Beechcraft Bonanza, as I recall. Airplanes that small are rarely named. Usually you only see unique names on large transports or military aircraft.

I don't know the name of the plane. But my mother-in-law's maiden name was Castine. And one time, a few years ago, she and her sisters all went to Castine, Maine to visit. They got their picture in the local newspaper, but since it was quite a few years after "American Pie" was written, I don't think therre was any mention of them in the song.

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Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you'll never see him in church again.
---Steve Brow

Dont forget also, that American Pie rhymes with the word bye. Songwriting is often a simple process of wordplay. And if it "sounds cool" thats what its all about. But I liked the suggestion that it was a metaphor for innocence.

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I don't really have a good source on any of this, but the way I had always understood it was that American Pie was the nickname of said plane that Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, and "Fats" Domino all perished in, and that the song in general was mourning the end of a more inoncent era. I Was also under the impression that "The Day the Music Died" reffered to an event at a football stadium where a marching band was violently forced off the field during an important game. I don't remember the details, but I was told by my father that it had made the news long ago, and was termed "The Day The Music Died." Mr. McClean's song, as a whole, however, was very moving (to me at least) and conveyed a very powerful message.

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Empress of the lands of Cheese and high preistess of Dairy. Gyunyun kawatte, oshiokyo!

Not Fats Domino. The Big Bopper.

People just don't want to let go of this silly "it's the name of the plane" UL.

I heard that "The Day The Music Died" was the headline from a newspaper reporting the plane crash.

Cess, I can't say that nopaper ran that headline, but it generally fails a plausibility test on a few points:

A) As big as Rock and Roll later got, in 1959 a lot of "mainstream" America was still hoping that it was just a fad that would go away.

B) As talented as Buddy Holly was, he had not yet achieved Superstar status (meaning instant recognition outside the Rock and Roll community) at the time of his death.

C) Newspapers of the fifties were fairly stuffy creatures that would be unlikely to use that sort of title for a small plane crash.

NekoYouma, the "marching band" version I heard was the reverse of yours: an anti-war protest (or some similar event) was prevented at a half-time show because it would have interfered with the "regularly scheduled" bands' performances. I have no idea whether this actually happened or was simply vivid imagination of all the people trying to fit events into the lyrics.


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Tom~

Papabear-thanks for the correction. It's been a while since this topic has come around, so I can't say brain is anything better than mouldy canteloupe. I really ought to look into this marching band thing, though...

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Empress of the lands of Cheese and high preistess of Dairy. Gyunyun kawatte, oshiokyo!

At the time the song came out in 1971 I was in 11th grade, and there was endless speculation about what various parts of the song might refer to. Two of the "marching band" theories of the time that I remember said the phrase "the marching band refused to yield" was:

1) a symbolic reference to the continuing Vietnam War (which was still going on when the song came out)

2) a reference to the long popularity of the Beatles--with the "marching band" reference being their Sgt. Pepper costumes.

I don't remember anyone ever talking about a real-lfe marching band incident. And I don't think we are ever going to know for sure unless we can get Don McLean to start posting to this board.

I can also understand why Don McLean is unhappy with this one song overshadowing the rest of his work. He had some wonderful songs--If We Try, Dreidel, the original version of Castles in the Air, Fool's Paradise, to name a few--which unfortunately aren't played anymore.

It could be worse. I heard Arlo Guthrie, one time, joking about how he only had one song that ever got airplay--and only one day each year!

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Tom~

Whitetho-
Not for nothing, snickerdoodle, but "Rosebud" DOES refer directly to a Sled. "American Pie" isn't a plane. Not only was "Rosebud" a creative and fascinating fulcrom upon which "Citizen Kane" was tipped to and fro, but one of the prop sleds made for the film now resides in the office of Steven Spielberg.
I don't know what happened to the others. As a veteran of many shoots, I can only surmise that several others were burned during the shooting of the climactic moment of "Citizen Kane"....now, THERE is a ?? for Cecil.
How many sleds were there, and does anyone else have one? Best to All,
Typer

"Rosebud" WAS the sled.

I don't usually respond to people who misstate what I meant in a post, for fear of starting a flamewar, but here goes. I thought it was obvious to anyone that my point was that sometimes people can get too literal, for example, extending the fact that there was an actual burning sled with "Rosebud" written on it at the close of Citizen Kane, to believing that the plane that went down in Iowa must have had "American Pie" splashed on its side, which, of course, it didn't.

In any event, Citizen Kane wasn't really about a sled, it was a thinly disguised biography of publisher Randolph Hearst. And there is a theory that Rosebud was a very intimate nickname for his mistress, Marion Davies. See Topkis v. Vidal for more details.

A sled from the movie recently sold at auction at Christies for $233,500--this may be the Spielberg sled, since he bought Clark Gable's Best Actor Oscar at the same auction. See: Auction Highlights for more details.

[Camilla]

What a silly topic. But now that you've polluted my mind, I'll pollute yours.

Why "American Pie"? Because in 1971 McLean was writing a lament for times gone by, before the American teenage world seemed to be falling apart, before Vietnam and assassinations and demonstrations and tear gas replaced in their minds Miss America, apple pie, newspaper deliver boys, going parking in a big-finned Chevy, school football games, dances in the gym, and whatever else he could think of that rhymed and evoked an America that liked Ike.

That what he wrote worked so well--sold so well--demonstrates how easily we succumb to phantom nostalgia, to a sad yearning for the return of something we never had and that we wouldn't like if we could get.

The next hit off that album was a lament for Van Gogh. McLean had a knack for making people sad for (and buy records about) dead men about whom they otherwise know or care nothing.

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McLean himself said:

"So when people ask me what "American Pie' means, I tell them it means I don't ever have to work again if I don't want to."
http://www.don-mclean.com/

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[Polycarp]

It was clearly a prophetic reference to the recently released teen-grossout movie of the same name. Life imitates art!