Cool gadgets that went (almost) nowhere

[IAMBIC]

Near the top of the list must be the Apple MessagePad (Newton).

Also, I vaguely remember a Panasonic VCR that hooked up to your telephone line (the same way you hook up an answering machine), so that you could dial in and remotely program it to record a TV show. Anybody else remember this?

Any other cool "flops"?

[Zsofia]

The videophone. It seems that there's always this feeling that it's a technology whose time has come, although I can't imagine why. For a while it really looked like people would buy them maybe - it was an actual videophone gadget (I think they even had one on Loveline) as opposed to videoconferencing through your computer which I guess some people actually do. An actual videophone unit.

[Queen Bruin]

I had the Sega channel way back when. It was a Sega cartridge that had a cable connection. You'd plug it into your Genesis and get 20 different games a month. It was really annoying to get Mortal Kombat 3 because they'd split the characters up into two seperate games that you had to download, cutting down on your choices. That and you couldn't save RPGs. But we got specialty games you couldn't get elsewhere: some Tetris knockoff that was really good, and Pong!

[Shalmanese]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

The videophone. It seems that there's always this feeling that it's a technology whose time has come, although I can't imagine why. For a while it really looked like people would buy them maybe - it was an actual videophone gadget (I think they even had one on Loveline) as opposed to videoconferencing through your computer which I guess some people actually do. An actual videophone unit.

It's because the camera and the screen are in different places so it's disocncerting talking to people since they aren't looking directly at you. Also, lots of people just dont want others to see what they looked like.

Personally, I was disappointed the segway was such a flop.

[Beware of Doug]

The videophone is amazing, if only because it is probably the longest-lived failed invention ever. It has cropped up in some working experimental form over and over again since at least 1930, only to be promptly shoved aside each time.

You'd think that after all this time the phone people would have caught on that nobody wants the goddamn thing. BUT! NOOoooooo. Every few years, there it is again. It's getting to be the technological equivalent of the old pull-the-quarter-out-of-your ear trick: no one cares anymore, especially since in this case, we don't even get to keep the quarter.

Enough already with the videophone.

[NoPretentiousCodename]

Originally Posted by Beware of Doug

....Enough already with the videophone.

Deaf people really like them. My brother and all his friends in the deaf community all use them. I think they even have a video relay operator now (to translate between hearing and deaf callers). So in that limited regard, they are met with a degree of success.

That and cell phones with text messaging.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

[quote=Beware of Doug] You'd think that after all this time the phone people would have caught on that nobody wants the goddamn thing.[quote]

It's interesting to note that even in Star Trek, in all its various incarnations, anything resembling a videophone is hardly ever seen. To my recollection, the one landmark SF movie where videophones do figure fairly prominently is 2001: A Space Oddysey. The specific context in which it was used--a father talking to his little girl, is a good example of why one might actually want to have this technology available. You probably don't want to see your boss's face when he calls you at the office, but I imagine most people wouldn't mind seeing their loved ones, and it's odd that this particular application wasn't enough to push the technology further along.

[Governor Quinn]

My pick's an oldie, but a goodie:

Victor Home Recording units.

They offered you the ability to record radio programs for later listening, and were the only method availible for ordinary people in their homes (other than contracting a recording firm) until reel-to-reel tape recorders.

However, they had the misfortune to be introduced in October 1930. As a result, they were dead by the late 1930's, due to a lack of customers.

[squeegee]

Originally Posted by Spectre of Pithecanthropus

It's interesting to note that even in Star Trek, in all its various incarnations, anything resembling a videophone is hardly ever seen.

Maybe I'm missing your intent, but the videophone in Star Trek seems quite common. It's certainly not used as a plot device often -- I'm sure it's cheaper and more expedient to shoot Kirk/Picard/whatever talking to a disembodied voice from the bridge and receiving an offscreen answer -- but there are numerous examples of characters having discussions with a talking head on a console.

[Reply]

Originally Posted by Spectre of Pithecanthropus

It's interesting to note that even in Star Trek, in all its various incarnations, anything resembling a videophone is hardly ever seen.

What do you mean? All the captains use video links to communicate with other ships when they hail them and put 'em onscreen. If that's not a (big) videophone, I don't know what is.

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

Personally, I was disappointed the segway was such a flop.

It was bound to be. Now, sure, it can be a great personal vehicle, but it has one major and a couple minor design problems:

1. Where does it run? It's a motor vehicle, but the "rider" is sort of a pedestrian. Many areas won't let it ride on the sidewalk, as it goes too fast, and it could be a mild danger and a significant annoyance to real pedestrians. It's too slow to go on the street. Every area doesn't have bike paths, and even so, bikes go faster, and they won't want you there.

2. No cargo space- when people go places, they want to take things with them- to wrok, your computer that case you've been working on, and shopping- what you;ve bought on the way back.

3. You stand, not sit- and dudes are lazy.

But it's #1 that killed it- no use buying something that can't go anywhere!

[Shalmanese]

Originally Posted by DrDeth

It was bound to be. Now, sure, it can be a great personal vehicle, but it has one major and a couple minor design problems:

1. Where does it run? It's a motor vehicle, but the "rider" is sort of a pedestrian. Many areas won't let it ride on the sidewalk, as it goes too fast, and it could be a mild danger and a significant annoyance to real pedestrians. It's too slow to go on the street. Every area doesn't have bike paths, and even so, bikes go faster, and they won't want you there.

2. No cargo space- when people go places, they want to take things with them- to wrok, your computer that case you've been working on, and shopping- what you;ve bought on the way back.

3. You stand, not sit- and dudes are lazy.

But it's #1 that killed it- no use buying something that can't go anywhere!

If everyone had a segway, then everyone would want a segway. If nobody has a segway, then nobody would want one precisely because of point no 1. I was just hoping that it would reach a certain critical mass where cities could be re-designed around it like Kaman claimed. I think it was a mistake to release it in the US first, I think it would have been accepted much more readily in Europe.

The problem the segway wanted to solve, in my mind, is this last mile problem with personal transport. Say you live a mile away from the train station and the other train station is a mile away from your work. What are your choices for getting to work? You can't drive to the train station because theres nowhere to park there. You can bike there but you can't take the bike onto the train so you'll have to walk at the other end. You can walk to the train station but it's a mile both ways. Finally, you can just give in and drive to work, if you can find a parking spot for less than $10 a day. With a segway, and appropriate infrastructure support, you've solved this problem! The money you save on car support alone well justifies buying a segway, even at $5000. You just ride your segway onto the train and park it in a built in booth, get off the train, ride it to work and park it into a designated employee segway parking lot.

And because Americans are so attached to their cars, it's hard to imagine ever doing completely without one. But in Europe, you can do stuff like go shopping and put all your groceries at a designated dropoff point where it will then be delivered to you later in the day. If your computer needs to be repaired, the repairman can pick it up from your house and return it when it's fixed etc.

I think the segway was a genuinely viable product that, sadly, never got the support it needed to gain it's full potential.

[LSLGuy]

In safety-mad America, you've also got the challenge that a Segway goes fast enough that falling off the thing will injure the rider.

If you hit an obstacle, such as a curb or piece of debris in the road, you go face-first onto the cement after your private parts get thwacked by the handlebar. So very quickly people will be wanting bicycle helmets, elbow pads, etc. And what do you do with all that gear when you get to the store or to school or work?

The folks that ride bikes for transport now put up with lugging all that stuff around when they get where they're going, but that's because they're fanatics, or kids with no choice.

Putting up with that degree of inconvenience will never be a mainstream American value.

Prsonally, I'd like to have one, but more than that I'd like to have a use for one. Sadly, that's just not happening, even in my bike-friendly suburban world with the long commute.

[scr4]

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

Say you live a mile away from the train station and the other train station is a mile away from your work. What are your choices for getting to work?

The Sewgay is not a very good solution for this problem. It would take up too much space in the train, and subway stations must be redesgned to eliminate escalators and have wider passages. A much better solution - and this is very common in Japan - is to have a bicycle storage facility at the station. You can keep a cheap bike in storage at the station near your work. Other solutions include buses, vans operated by the employer, and folding bikes.

IMHO the only "problem" the Segway was designed to solve was: "We spent all this money developing a 2-wheel balancing system for the iBOT (electric wheelchair), but the market for those isn't very big. How can we make more money with this technology?"

[BlackKnight]

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

You can bike there but you can't take the bike onto the train so you'll have to walk at the other end. ... You just ride your segway onto the train and park it in a built in booth, get off the train, ride it to work and park it into a designated employee segway parking lot.

Why not just make it so you can bring your bike on the train? That would require only very minor changes, whereas what you suggest would require massive changes to infrastructure.

[buttonjockey308]

Originally Posted by DrDeth

It was bound to be. Now, sure, it can be a great personal vehicle, but it has one major and a couple minor design problems:

1. Where does it run? It's a motor vehicle, but the "rider" is sort of a pedestrian. Many areas won't let it ride on the sidewalk, as it goes too fast, and it could be a mild danger and a significant annoyance to real pedestrians. It's too slow to go on the street. Every area doesn't have bike paths, and even so, bikes go faster, and they won't want you there.

2. No cargo space- when people go places, they want to take things with them- to wrok, your computer that case you've been working on, and shopping- what you;ve bought on the way back.

3. You stand, not sit- and dudes are lazy.

But it's #1 that killed it- no use buying something that can't go anywhere!

Hell, it costs like 3 grand, and if it rains, you still get wet. Talk about a deal killer.
No, what killed it is that the damn thing costs $3,000 plus and won't keep you dry when it rains. Stupid.

[ralph124c]

Link:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1978...Electronics_R2

&hash=item35bb3e3113

I had one of these things-it was net to useless.
Looked cool, though

[Ranchoth]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

The videophone. It seems that there's always this feeling that it's a technology whose time has come, although I can't imagine why. For a while it really looked like people would buy them maybe - it was an actual videophone gadget (I think they even had one on Loveline) as opposed to videoconferencing through your computer which I guess some people actually do. An actual videophone unit.

You actually can buy those—my aunt & uncle and my grandparents got a couple, a few months back. (You hook it up to your phone line, and your TV set. The framerate isn't great, but it's workable.)

Anyway...

Nixie Tubes

Jet Packs. (Later Bell models, as I remember, not only had a true jet engine, but an endurance time of seven minutes.) Or the Williams Aerial Survey Platform.

RCA Videodiscs. Or Phonovision discs.

Flamethrowers. (Maybe "went nowhere" is too strong, but they have kind of died out.)

The Pedfersen Device

[Beware of Doug]

Ranchoth: That Phonovision story borders on the sci fi. Imagine - they could record TV (back when there hardly was TV). But they couldn't figure out how to play it back - it was just noise-on-a-record until computer frequency analysis and filtering.

I submit for your approval Thaddeus Cahill's unbelievable Telharmonium. was the first truly electric musical instrument. It was the talk of New York in 1907. By 1908 it had gone broke. By 1912 it was back. Only now, nobody cared.

Want your flying (or floating) car? Consider the Aerocar and Amphicar.

[Scott Plaid]

Originally Posted by Ranchoth

[url=http://www.cedmagic.com/selectavision.html]RCA

I own one of those! Phonographic video! I've got "Star Wars" War of the Worlds", "Dracula" and a few more. As with anything, there are collectors around for them. The picture quality was sloigly higher then with a VCR.

[Unintentionally Blank]

Originally Posted by Scott Plaid

I own one of those! Phonographic video! I've got "Star Wars" War of the Worlds", "Dracula" and a few more. As with anything, there are collectors around for them. The picture quality was sloigly higher then with a VCR.

And most importantly, Han shoots first!

[beowulff]

Originally Posted by Ranchoth

Nixie Tubes

Nixie tubes were not a flop.
They were an enormous success, and were produced by the multi-millions. They just happened to have a relatively short product life (maybe 2 decades). But before they were displaced by better and cheaper technology, they dominated digital displays.

[SuperNelson]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

The videophone. It seems that there's always this feeling that it's a technology whose time has come, although I can't imagine why. For a while it really looked like people would buy them maybe - it was an actual videophone gadget (I think they even had one on Loveline) as opposed to videoconferencing through your computer which I guess some people actually do. An actual videophone unit.

There are thousands of them out there right now being used for Video Relay Service for the speech and hearing impaired. One of the more popular ones for home use is the DLink i2eye. It's essentially a set top box for your TV (thereby putting the camera right above the TV screen) with a high enough frame rate for real time sign language, and a price in the sub-$200 range.

[SuperNelson]

Originally Posted by IAMBIC

Near the top of the list must be the Apple MessagePad (Newton).

Also, I vaguely remember a Panasonic VCR that hooked up to your telephone line (the same way you hook up an answering machine), so that you could dial in and remotely program it to record a TV show. Anybody else remember this?

Any other cool "flops"?

Here's what really ended up happening to the Newton and that VCR: They were cutting edge products that created a new market, but didn't evolve enough to keep up with their imitators. For example, this January, I was on vacation in London, and realized I had forgotten to tell my TiVo to record the Superbowl. We were walking through Soho, and I saw the London Apple Store. I ducked into the store, took out my Palm handheld, and connected to Apple's open WiFi network. I then used TiVo's online scheduling service to tell my TiVo at home to record the Superbowl. A few minutes later, I had an email confirmation. The PDA and remotely schedulable DVR are the natural descendants of the Newton and Panasonic VCR - they just aren't made by Apple or Panasonic.

[Scissorjack]

The Segway was just the son of the Sinclair C5; a solution looking for a problem.

[minor7flat5]

I remember reading an article in some cool magazine (Popular Science?) in the late 70s that showed the inner workings of Polavision.

Never heard of Polavision?
It was to home motion picture film what Polaroid cameras were to still photography. Here's a picture.
Very cool process, but it came much too late for anyone to be interested; video cameras were already appearing on the consumer market.

I have always wanted a Xircom Rex PDA. This was a tidy little pda that was fully built within a PCMCIA card. So small it slips into any pocket. No docking station needed -- just plug it in to the PC card slot. Clearly, it was no good for data entry, but I just want my contacts and my meeting schedule. It's a shame that it died and I am left to carry a Palm device.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Originally Posted by minor7flat5

I remember reading an article in some cool magazine (Popular Science?) in the late 70s that showed the inner workings of Polavision.

I remember that. IIRC, you got a silent movie that lasted 2-3 minutes.

There was also the Fisher Price PXL-2000 video camera for kids.

It used HQ audio cassettes! These things go for BIG money on eBay. I understand film school students lust after them.

[IAMBIC]

Originally Posted by minor7flat5

I have always wanted a Xircom Rex PDA. This was a tidy little pda that was fully built within a PCMCIA card. So small it slips into any pocket. No docking station needed -- just plug it in to the PC card slot. Clearly, it was no good for data entry, but I just want my contacts and my meeting schedule. It's a shame that it died and I am left to carry a Palm device.

I owned one for a few months shortly after it was introduced. It came with a small pad of paper where you could jot down phone numbers and appointments so you could enter them at your computer and then synchronize. Ended up being too awkward.

I considered mentioning it in the OP.

[DocCathode]

Tablet Computers

A few major companies released tablet computers in the early nineties. They bombed. Several of them (IIRC including Microsoft) tried again about two years ago. I'd use my tablet pc for some things, but it has no floppy drive and I can't get the data transfer cable to work (I may need to put a Windows 3.1 partition on this computer).

Wire Recorders

As the name suggests, you could record sound onto wire. Quality wasn't great. You needed a very long cable for more than a few minutes. Then, open reel tape machines debuted.

Re Nixie Tubes

I love those things. I wish I could pump the gas back in and reseal them.

Re Segway

The busses here have bike racks on the front. You are allowed to bring a bike onto the train (though I think they may require the purchase of bike permit)

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

Because bikes are inherently big,

The Segway was what 3 feet high by 2 feet wide by a foot long

you can't carry them up stairs easily

It's a hell of lot easier to carry a bike up stairs than to carry an 80 pound Segway.

[aruvqan]

*sigh* The Cook and Clean Center

I had a miniscule apartment that had one of these...I owned just enough stuff that I didn't bother putting anything in the cupboards, I just ran the dishwasher every morning as I went to work, and everything was ready when I got home=)

Also, can't find any link online, but around 1990 or so, in the Navy Exchange catalog they had a spiffy toy, an appliance you put a washed potato in, and filled a bin with oil, and it would slice and fry potato chips and conveyor belt them out into a paper towel lined plate=) ... sort of a toy like those coffee maker/toasteroven/heating tray thingy that you can find in gizmo catalogs=)

[Ranchoth]

The "Echo" communication satellite—basically, a big, metalicized balloon that radio signals were bounced off of. There's just something oddly charming about it.

[Shalmanese]

Originally Posted by DocCathode

The Segway was what 3 feet high by 2 feet wide by a foot long

It's a hell of lot easier to carry a bike up stairs than to carry an 80 pound Segway.

My quote was that bikes are inherently big. Theres nothing stopping us apart from technology from making a segway that's not much broader across than your shoulders and weighs next to nothing.

Bikes, on the other hand, are limited by their form factor to be a certain size which means even if they weighed nothing, they would still be tricky to take up stairs.

[GorillaMan]

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

Bikes, on the other hand, are limited by their form factor to be a certain size which means even if they weighed nothing, they would still be tricky to take up stairs.

For the second time, I'll ask the same question: have you never seen a folding bike?

[scr4]

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

My quote was that bikes are inherently big. Theres nothing stopping us apart from technology from making a segway that's not much broader across than your shoulders and weighs next to nothing.

The narrower you make the Segway, the less stable it becomes during cornering. And you stay on a Segway while riding a train? Wouldn't you have to get off and stand beside it? What if you are sitting down, is there room under the seat for a Segway?

Segways are inherently heavier than bikes. Both have two wheels and a drivetrain, but in addition the Segway has a battery and motor.

Originally Posted by Unintentionally Blank

A folding bike is a cute eccentricity, but you wouldn't WANT to fold and unfold it every day, twice a day, in a commute.

Why not? I used to. My Brompton takes 20 seconds to fold, and perhaps another 20 seconds to pack into a shoulder bag.

[Cornelius Tuggerson]

Originally Posted by DocCathode

Wire Recorders

As the name suggests, you could record sound onto wire. Quality wasn't great. You needed a very long cable for more than a few minutes. Then, open reel tape machines debuted.

I know an amusing anecdote about these. The Soviet air force opted to use wires as a recording medium for audio alerts to pilots(they are supposedly not susceptible to the EM charge and would not break if a nuclear weapon was detonated close, but not too close to the plane). This design decision implied an interesting feature - it had to be a woman’s voice that was recorded onto the wire as a male voice was too low key to be heard clearly enough. So during one of the routine test flights of some fighter plane the audio system kicked in and said something like:
"Engine Failure in Engine 4; Automatic Fuel Shut Off Engaged"
To which the pilot that was flying the plane responded by saying something along the lines of - "AHHHH!! HOLY SHIT!! WOMAN ON BOARD" and ejecting promptly, even though the malfunction was not a very serious one. So even such a great haven for useless technologies as the Soviet air force couldn't prevent the demise of wire recording.

[Amazon Floozy Goddess]

Ok, this is pretty underwhelming, and not really that cool, but it was when it came out -

Calculator watches.

My dad had one of the first kinds that came out. he got it at Radio Schlock. Big and chunky and pretty unattractive, but as a kid it fascinated me because, hey, there was a calculator in it!! And the buttons were so tiny!! Unfortunately, there was something wrong with it and it was far from accurate. I remember one time playing with it and it claimed that 2 + 16 = 28.

[ouryL]

Originally Posted by IAMBIC

Near the top of the list must be the Apple MessagePad (Newton).

Also, I vaguely remember a Panasonic VCR that hooked up to your telephone line (the same way you hook up an answering machine), so that you could dial in and remotely program it to record a TV show. Anybody else remember this?

Any other cool "flops"?

Who says it flopped?
It is still used in some of the older VTR's, but has been superceded by the internet.

[IAMBIC]

Originally Posted by ouryL

Who says it flopped?
It is still used in some of the older VTR's, but has been superceded by the internet.

So you're saying you know about VTR's (VCR's) that can be remotely programmed by phone? What models?

The only think I remember about this is one ad that I saw in a magazine about 15 years ago.

Also, I don't understand what you mean when you say that it "has been superceded by the internet." Can you program your VTR through the internet? (I'm not talking about TiVo or a PVR - Personal Video Recorder.)

[Ethilrist]

The Gyrojet.

[LawMonkey]

Originally Posted by Ethilrist

The Gyrojet.

Tee-hee! I love these--what's better than a gun you can render completely harmless by sticking your finger over the barrel?

They were also a regular part of my kit back when I played Cyberpunk 2020 (pen & paper cyberpunk RPG). Back then I had no idea that they really existed; it just sounded like an awesome idea and damage increased with range. Perfect for a sniper who works at extreme ranges.

[Chronos]

And PDAs are also alive and well, and nearly ubiquitous. They've just got a new name now, and most of them are also phones.

[Lemur866]

It is interesting to see how 7 years ago people were complaining about PDAs and Tablets and videophones and e-readers and how they didn't work. Well, it's 2012 and everyone's got one now. Most people aren't using the videophone feature of their phone, but they could it they wanted to. I've used facetime on my iPod touch plenty of times to chat between me, my wife and my kids when the family is separated. But that's the thing. I only want to use facetime with my loved ones. I have no desire to see or be seen by anyone else.

[VOW]

Years ago, there was an Andy Rooney segment on "60 Minutes" where he demonstrated a really neat gizmo a fan had sent him. It peeled citrus fruit.

It vaguely resembled a potato peeler. You cut through the rind around the equator, inserted the blunt end underneath the peel at the cut, and separated the fruit from the peel.

The two halves of the peel would come off, and VOILÁ! A perfect, naked citrus fruit!

I said, "I GOTTA have that!"

A few years later, I actually found the gizmo. I bought several for gifts.

I still have mine around someplace. It DOES take longer to use than doing the traditional peeling.

But it is STILL incredibly cool!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtvkHOkTZT8


~VOW

[VOW]

Um, Snowboarder:

You work for GSA by any chance?


~VOW

[Mdcastle]

Segway may be a mildly sucessful product in absolut terms, but it's a flop relative to the hype before it came out: "100,000 units the first year". "More money in the first year than any startup in history". "As big of deal as a PC"." More important than the internet." And all the hype about how it was going to revolutionize transportation.

[Mister Rik]

Originally Posted by Mdcastleman

Segway may be a mildly sucessful product in absolut terms, but it's a flop relative to the hype before it came out: "100,000 units the first year". "More money in the first year than any startup in history". "As big of deal as a PC"." More important than the internet." And all the hype about how it was going to revolutionize transportation.

So basically, Kamen was trying to pull a Steve Jobs, without the benefit of actually being Steve Jobs

[BrotherCadfael]

Originally Posted by Amazon Floozy Goddess

Ok, I've seen photos of Segways, but what's the amazing thing about them? They look like Jetson-esque scooters to me.

I'd have to say they are more Smokey Stover-esque than Jetson-esque. Two wheels, not none.

[Arabella Flynn]

Nthing the PixelVision cameras. I actually had one of these when I was a kid. It was evidently so little known, at least where I was, that I thought I had made the whole thing up until I saw it mentioned on the Dead Media List working notes.

There were lots of audio and video formats that never quite made it. MovieCDs (not Video CDs -- these were for computers, coded in some variant of QuickTime, and the last one I found proudly proclaimed it would work on Windows 3.1), CEDs, Betamax (which did go on to accomplish something on the industrial side, dying out as a consumer format), MiniDisks (which were popular in Asia but died quickly here in the US), SelectaVision (which was holography-based, in 1969), true quadrophonic record albums, and even weirder things.

One thing I kind of wish had hung on is the automat. Some of the BoLoCo shops here in Boston have a quasi-automat setup, where you punch an order into a touchscreen near the door and only pick up/pay at the counter. I can understand why they died -- as noted, inflation made it difficult to pay for meals with only coins, and bill acceptors took a very long time to function reliably -- but there's no reason one wouldn't work now that everyone uses magnetic cards to pay for things.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

Originally Posted by bouv

Unless you spent half a million on R&D before you even sold the first one...

Segway spent half a million dollars on R&D and made a quarter billion in sales? Even with a modest profit, that sounds like a win to me.

Originally Posted by Mdcastleman

Segway may be a mildly sucessful product in absolut terms, but it's a flop relative to the hype before it came out: "100,000 units the first year". "More money in the first year than any startup in history". "As big of deal as a PC"." More important than the internet." And all the hype about how it was going to revolutionize transportation.

I know I look at things differently than most people, but I ignore hype in considering success. The market may say if you predict sales of a million units of something and actually sell 100,000 the product is a loser. I say if that 100,000 generated great profits for you, it's a win. Similarly, companies get slammed on market share. ("OMG! They only have 10% market share! They're losers!"). If that 10% market share is generating massive profits and fantastic cash flow, then they aren't losers. (NOTE: None of my examples here apply directly to Segway).

[bouv]

Originally Posted by Gary "Wombat" Robson

Segway spent half a million dollars on R&D and made a quarter billion in sales? Even with a modest profit, that sounds like a win to me.

Sorry, mean half a billion.

You have to look at net profits over the whole life of the thing, from concept to now.

I don't know if that quarter billion is gross, net, or whatever...my point is, just giving a dollar amount in sales does nothing to tell us if it was profitable or not, and if so, by how much.