How do the Japanese die?

[Diceman]

This is a question that I've been wondering about for a while. About eight years ago, a friend of mine (who is Filipino-American) told me that Japanese society is so stressfull and demanding that fully 1/4 of Japanese men end their lives by suicide. That they are literally worked to the breaking point by their employers. Is this true? I've heard that the bigwigs in Tokyo expect nothing less than 100% from their employees, but is it really that bad?

[Saint Zero]

if I'm reading This table correctly,your buddy looks to be right.

But that's easy, compared to, say, Estonia with a 64.3, or Belarus with 48.7.

[John Corrado]

There are a few important points to remember when considering the Japanese suicide rate.

First- The Japanese do not really have a stigma against suicide. Shintoism does not condemn suicide (unlike Christianity, which does); and historically, suicide was seen as a way of a dishonorable man return honor to his family.

Second- Japanese culture is less forgiving than most Western culture. You screw up in Japan, you're unlikely to ever undo your mistake (as opposed to here in the U.S., where a great many public figures (in all walks of life) would prefer not to discuss some of the things they did as young adults).

Ergo, you screw up in Japan- make a major mistake in your company, do poorly in your tests to go to the Universities, etc.- you commit suicide in order to restore honor to your family.

[JeffB]

Originally posted by Saint Zero
if I'm reading This table correctly,your buddy looks to be right.

I don't think you're reading that correctly. According to the table, Japan has a suicide rate of 24.3 per 100,000 for men (not 24.3%). That works out to less than 1/40 of 1% per year. The U.S. has a suicide rate of 19.3 -- not that much different.

I also found in the [url="http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/"]CIA World Factbook[/i] that the life expectancy for Japanese males is 77.02 years versus the U.S. life expectancy for males of 72.95 years. It doesn't look like one quarter of Japanese males are committing suicide (unless they are waiting until they are very old).

[JeffB]

Oops, that should have been CIA World Factbook.

[AWB]

Originally posted by Saint Zero
if I'm reading This table correctly,your buddy looks to be right.

But that's easy, compared to, say, Estonia with a 64.3, or Belarus with 48.7.

The table you reference is suicides per 100,000. However, they use the notation "100.000" for that number. What's confusing is that the numbers in the body of the chart should be "2,9", "10,6", "24,3". The author of that chart was inconsistant: either use commas as thousands separator and periods for decimal point or vice versa.

[Boris B]

... for working yourself to death. Usually, it is from some form of stroke ... subarachnoidal hemorhages (sp?) spring to mind. These aren't suicides, per se, so I don't think they would show up on the table. Also, that table is for the Japanese general public, not exactly the demographic we're looking for. The "working yourself to death" deaths are concentrated among the most ambitious corporate workers. I suspect suicides are concentrated among the same demographic. Retirees, soldiers, janitors, schoolteachers, etc., presumably live under completely different conditions.

Actually, there have been lawsuits from the families of people killed by workaholism. They blame the bosses on driving salarymen way behind human limits. I don't know the outcomes.

In any case, I think the suicide rumors are driven by the reality of an over-stressed corporate workforce. Overall Japanese health statistics, with the exception of that one kind of cancer (stomach?), remain excellent.

[Ukulele Ike]

Originally posted by John Corrado
You screw up in Japan, you're unlikely to ever undo your mistake (as opposed to here in the U.S., where a great many public figures (in all walks of life) would prefer not to discuss some of the things they did as young adults).

So, a Japanese version of George W. Bush would have carved out his large intestine with a ceremonial sword rather than run for the Presidency? There's something to be said for this system.

[Sublight]

Death from overwork = Karoshi.

Incidentally, the Japanese Health Ministry released last year's suicide statistics yesterday. The rate was slightly higher than the year before, with a big jump in suicides from "economic distress". The article was rather confusing, though, as it listed "economic distress" and "financial troubles" as two different categories.

On the good side, I suppose, suicides due to sexual problems were down from the previous year. Must be the Viagra.

--Sublight.