Who preceded the Nazis as the cliched embodiment of evil?

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

All of the Nazi-revival, swastika-lovin' threads make wonder: before the 1930s, when people wanted to evoke an embodiment of evil authoritarism ("Who do you think you are, honey, Adolf Hitler or somefin? I'll take the trash out when I'm good and goddamn ready") who did they pick? The Czar? The Pope? The titular head of the Republican Party?

I mean, we didn't just decide around 1933 that we needed a symbol of tyranny, did we? Or did we?

[Wallenstein]

the pope's always been popular

[carnivorousplant]

The Vikings were viewed as bad guys by the English as I recall.
The Monguls and the Huns were not highly thought of.

[Mangetout]

Anyway, what have the Romans ever done for us?

[Stranger On A Train]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

Anyway, what have the Romans ever done for us?

• Sanitation,
• medicine,
• education,
• irrigation,
• public health,
• roads,
• a freshwater system,
• baths, and
• public order.

But aside from that, not much.

My vote for 19th century Europe would be Napoleon and the Frenchies.

Going back a bit further, the Spanish Inquisition was pretty unexpected, too.

Stranger

[handsomeharry]

Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train

• Sanitation,
• medicine,
• education,
• irrigation,
• public health,
• roads,
• a freshwater system,
• baths, and
• public order.

But aside from that, not much.

Stranger

I WAS going to say, but what have they done for us lately.
Also, let us remember the Turks. I believe "the Arabs" oculd have worked as well.
hh

[astro]

White Slavers

[Ethilrist]

Satan?

[don't ask]

The Huns or the Prussians.

[Colibri]

The Bolsheviks would be another candidate.

[Sal Ammoniac]

If you're looking at a somewhat earlier day, Napoleon was quite the bogeyman, particularly in England. Parents used him to threaten disobedient children.

[Beware of Doug]

Originally Posted by pseudotriton ruber ruber

I mean, we didn't just decide around 1933 that we needed a symbol of tyranny, did we? Or did we?

I dunno. In the years just before '33, a lot of people outside Germany were seriously considering authoritarianism and totalitarianism as an answer to the misery caused by the Great Depression. Fascist Italy was as much respected as reviled – maybe more so, because they had really cool uniforms and planes.

[Nava]

In Spain, the following are and continue to be popular:
Nero (as Real Evil Guy)
the Pope (as Absolute Power, no evil implied)
the King (again, Absolute Power but no evil implied)
the Goths (the tribe, not the ones who like black lipstick)
Attilah (sp?) and his Huns
Attilah's horse

The Goth Kings (of Spain) are both an example of "a thing you learn by rote" (although we don't any more) and of a real crazy bunch. Whomever had murdered the previous king became king. Real nice family, not.

[twickster]

Originally Posted by Nava

Attilah's horse

Is this a whoosh?

[Ethilrist]

Originally Posted by twickster

Is this a whoosh?

What, you've never heard of a threat based on "... and the horse he rode in on..."? Well, it's that horse.

[Elendil's Heir]

Well, a horse is a horse, of course, of course... even when it's Attila's.

[Operation Ripper]

I'd go with the Huns, they were still calling Germans "Huns" in WWI and WWII I believe.

[Malienation]

Genghis Khan, no question about it!

[panache45]

My guess would be "Atilla the Hun" or "Ivan the Terrible."

[RickG]

The Jews? ;j

-Rick

[Argent Towers]

Originally Posted by RickG

The Jews? ;j

-Rick

This was probably taken as sort of a joke by most people, and forgotten, but I think this answer is the winner. The Jews were indeed the embodiment of evil in most of Europe for the longest time - to the point of being blamed for all kinds of ridiculous things, "blood libels," well poisoning, not to mention economic trouble, and perpetually hated as Christ-killers. Whether or not they actually were evil is beside the point - they were universally reviled. Add to this the "protocols of the elders of zion" bullshit and the common perception that the Jews were in control behind the scenes, and the "authority" stipulation of the OP is fulfilled as well. I don't think any of the other answers given come as close to the mark as the Jews.

[Agnostic Pagan]

Originally Posted by Argent Towers

This was probably taken as sort of a joke by most people, and forgotten, but I think this answer is the winner. The Jews were indeed the embodiment of evil in most of Europe for the longest time - to the point of being blamed for all kinds of ridiculous things, "blood libels," well poisoning, not to mention economic trouble, and perpetually hated as Christ-killers. ...<snip>... I don't think any of the other answers given come as close to the mark as the Jews.

Sorry to double post, but overlooked this. This is sadly true as well. I don't believe the general public had any problems with the portrayal of Shylock and similar characters until after WWII, and too many still don't.

[chrisk]

Originally Posted by pseudotriton ruber ruber

All of the Nazi-revival, swastika-lovin' threads make wonder: before the 1930s, when people wanted to evoke an embodiment of evil authoritarism ("Who do you think you are, honey, Adolf Hitler or somefin? I'll take the trash out when I'm good and goddamn ready") who did they pick? The Czar? The Pope? The titular head of the Republican Party?

I mean, we didn't just decide around 1933 that we needed a symbol of tyranny, did we? Or did we?

As a slight hijack... did people REALIZE around 1933 that the Nazis would be referred to as a symbol of evil, authoritarianism, and tyranny for a long time?? If not... any idea when this started to sink in??

[mack]

Originally Posted by chrisk

As a slight hijack... did people REALIZE around 1933 that the Nazis would be referred to as a symbol of evil, authoritarianism, and tyranny for a long time?? If not... any idea when this started to sink in??

Very roughly speaking, the Night of The Long Knives in 1934 put many people on alert, so to say, and Kristallnacht in 1938 removed any doubt about where things were headed. The invasion of Poland soon followed in 1939. People trickled out of Germany all through the '30s.

[OtakuLoki]

Hmm... shortly before, say, 1933, I'd say that the Red threat was the biggest international boogeyman.

Prior to that, and continuing for much of the same time, was the Yellow threat that CalMeacham already mentioned.

Other epitomes of omnipotent evil would be (in no particular order)

The Okrahna (The secret police of the Czars, and the people who originally faked up The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.)
The Spanish Inquisition
The Jesuits
The Knights Templar
The Huns
The Mongols
The Goths

[saoirse]

Don't forget the Jesuits. Anyone who can steal days is pretty fearsome.

[Askia]

American Negroes. Especially if white women were involved.

:: Looking around. :: Hey, where they at, anyway?

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

OP here. Were any of these groups or individuals actually used (in literature, say) as examples of evil authority? IOW, did the whole Godwin's Law meme begin with the Nazis? Did people employ any handy embodiment of evil that sprang to mind, or were any of these in actual use generally?

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Cossacks.

Irish immigrants in the US.

Injuns (the native american kind.)

[Exapno Mapcase]

Communists have been used as villains since the days of Marx. All union and progressive causes were tainted by the use of communist as a smear against them.

Before WWI there was a huge genre of invasion books in England, using the Germans or even the French as invaders across the Channel.

For the hundred years before that, Napoleon was the symbol of invasion across all Europe outside of France.

For at least 50 years after the Revolution, the British were the symbol of all that was evil in much of America.

The Pope may have been used earlier as a joke, but Catholics were hated and feared for hundreds of years after the Reformation across Protestant Europe.

Barbarians of all sorts were symbols of devastation after the fall of Rome. Not just Huns, but Goths, Vikings, and others.

Western Civ is one long roster of demonizing the enemy. The Greeks thought everyone else were barbarians. That and not Plato is our real heritage.

[Guinastasia]

The German Kaiser was pretty reviled, although he wasn't seen quite as evil as Hitler, but more of an evil, incompetant bufoon.

What about Otto von Bismarck? He was pretty nasty.

[Fish Cheer]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

What about Otto von Bismarck? He was pretty nasty.

Actually, I don't think so. Can you provide a cite?

In his day, I doubt that he was seen much different than other aristocratic statesmen in Europe.

Don't get him mixed up with that Kaiser Wilhelm II / Great War business.

[Wakinyan]

The Jews.

The anti semitism in Europe one hundred years ago was unbelievable.

[Argent Towers]

Originally Posted by Wakinyan

The Jews.

The anti semitism in Europe one hundred years ago was unbelievable.

Good subject for your 88th post, Hitler.

(Just kidding. Jesus!)

[BrainGlutton]

In 16th-Century Europe, everybody was terrified of witches. Terrified enough to . . . well, you know the rest.

In the same century and for some time after, Europe was divided into Catholic and Protestant populations and each demonized the other. "I'll weed the turnips when I'm ready, who are you, the Pope of Rome?" might actually have been used in Protestant countries, who knows?