Pickles from India

[Mesquite-oh]

It is 2:45am and I am thinking about the grocery store brand pickles I bought at my neighborhood store here in the US. The jar says that they are a product of India. I am thinking about all the people who had to get paid and all the things that had to get done to get them here. Did I miss a step? Am I wrong? Have you ever seen such a weird arrangement to make money?

First there is the Indian guy (or company) who had to buy the land and the machines. Then he has to pay the guys who tend to the land and the machines. He has to pay for stuff necessary to plant and water pickle embryos as well as the people to take care of the pickles and eventually pick them. He might have to pay someone to truck the pickles to the pickle factory. Then he has to pay his white collar people and his taxes to keep things going.

The guy at the pickle factory has to do the same thing. He has to pay for his factory, his machines, the materials and all the employees that go with keeping the factory going as well as make the pickle embryos that he purchased into pickles. He too has to pay for his white collar people and his taxes. Oh, I forgot, my pickles from India come in a very nice sturdy glass container with a sturdy metal top that had to come from a guy who has a factory that he has to pay for his machines, his materials, employees, taxes, white collar guys..blah blah.

Then, somebody with a truck needs to take them to the port (which is run by a guy who..blah blah) where someone else gets paid to load them into a container who puts it on a big ship (which is owned by a guy blah blah) and then needs to be shipped across the freakin' ocean (which I would imagine takes a bit of money) where it reaches a US port (blah blah) where a guy pays to get the pickles trucked to the warehouse (blah blah) where it gets trucked to a big beautiful grocery store (blah blah) just a few minutes from my house where I pick it up, notice that it says "manufactured on 11-05-2005" and take it to the check out stand. The checker swipes the jar and it reads:

$1.59

A buck freakin' fifty nine? I don't understand that at all. Not that I am not appreciative, but there has to be a less complicated way to make a buck than spending 9 months getting pickles to me. Isn't it fun to examine ordinary things in your house and wonder "How the hell did this get here?"

[jjimm]

That's globalisation, innit.

[Rigamarole]

To be fair, he probably makes more than just pickles. And the boat they shipped them on almost certainly had more things on it than those.

[Surok]

Originally Posted by chriscya

It is 2:45am and I am thinking about the grocery store brand pickles I bought at my neighborhood store here in the US. The jar says that they are a product of India.

Wow. What a superb coincidence.

I was trying to buy pickles probably right around the time you posted. I looked at the small print on all the jars, as I often prefer to buy goods manufactured in Russia/ the FSU. I was astounded to see India listed as the manufacturer on all the brands except one.

I had never realized that India (specifically Bangalore) had such a thriving pickle industry.

[jjimm]

When you think about the vast amount of resources required to get them to you, though, it does seem nuts. But if you bought pickles manufactured in the same town as you, I'd bet they'd have problems selling them for $1.59, what with the greater raw material, but most of all labor, costs. Which is why some people complain about globalisation.

Personally, I like to buy produce from people near me as much as I can, but sometimes it's totally impossible - coffee, for example.

[jjimm]

BTW most of the pickles we get in the UK are made in Poland.

[Surok]

Originally Posted by jjimm

BTW most of the pickles we get in the UK are made in Poland.

Yup, I had a vague memory of this while I was on my pickle search. Most of the Krakus brand stuff which I remember from childhood was very good.

That's why I assumed that Russia, being a country where pickles are to be found at every market and on many street corners, would also have a thriving pickle industry. It seems not.

[Mangetout]

Nearly all of the expense items you listed for an india-based pickle manufacturer are also expense items for a domestic pickle manufacturer. OK, the shipping, and distribution costs might be a little higher because of the distance and the international factor, plus there may be some kind of import duties or taxes, but these will be more than offset by the lower costs of materials, manpower and agriculture in India (plus, it's a fair bet that the Indian manufacturer will not be beholden to the same kind of inconvenient restrictions regarding health and safety, employee welfare, mimimum wage and minimum employee age that your domestic producer may).

[Sunspace]

So that's what happened to the pickle factories in Scarborough! And I thought they just put up that fence along the train line so people wouldn't see the seagulls pooping in the tanks.

[Mindfield]

Hey, c'mon. Juan Valdez and one lonely mule had to hand pick every single bean that went into my cup of coffee this morning, and I'm just one of hundreds of mllions who enjoys coffee on a daily basis! You think those workers in Bangalore got it rough? Think of poor Juan!

[Zsofia]

I make my own pickles.

Between the pickle embryo seeds and nurturing and water and fertilizer and dirt and cream for the rash the vines give me and jugs of vinegar and jars and gas to boil a crapload of water and the little stick with the magnet on it I bet I spend more than $1.59 a jar.

It's all about volume.

[Jackknifed Juggernaut]

I think economies of scale may apply in this case. You see, Indians eat alot of pickles; pretty much with every meal. They're usually quite different than the pickled cucumbers we get in the states. Indians pickle every fruit or vegetable imaginable. They also use all sorts of spices. If you can get to an Indian grocery, just take a look at the pickle aisle. So adding one more item for export to the assembly line is probably minor.

[Acsenray]

Originally Posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut

I think economies of scale may apply in this case. You see, Indians eat alot of pickles; pretty much with every meal. They're usually quite different than the pickled cucumbers we get in the states. Indians pickle every fruit or vegetable imaginable. They also use all sorts of spices. If you can get to an Indian grocery, just take a look at the pickle aisle. So adding one more item for export to the assembly line is probably minor.

I don't know how economies of scale apply here, because the Indian-style pickling process uses oil, not brine or vinegar, so I don't understand how that would extend to making American-style pickled cucumbers.

[Acsenray]

When we talk about "pickles" in this thread are we talking about brine-pickled cucumbers?

Because when Indians talk about "pickles," that's not what they mean.

Indians don't eat brine-pickled cucumbers (generally speaking), so if it's the case that most of them are made in India, they'll pretty much be for the export market. Interesting.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Originally Posted by Zsofia

It's all about volume.

Apparently there are some Picklefolk who disagree.

Near a week-long music festival we attended this summer in Michigan, we repeatedly passed a homemade sign stuck out on a farm driveway amongst the fields of dill:

PICKLE
4
SALE

I wonder what else they had in their inventory...

[jjimm]

JJ, IMO to add what Americans call 'pickles' (cucumber in vinegar) to what Indians call pickles would require refitting the entire factory!

[Tapioca Dextrin]

If you think that $1.59 is cheap, then what about Ramen Noodles? $0.20 to ship the box from China is pretty impressive.

[Jackknifed Juggernaut]

Originally Posted by jjimm

JJ, IMO to add what Americans call 'pickles' (cucumber in vinegar) to what Indians call pickles would require refitting the entire factory!

I suppose I'm just showing my ignorance about the pickle producing process. However, what I was thinking was a pickle factory with 50 oil hoses, replacing 1 of these with a vinegar hose.

[Mangetout]

It might require differences in the filling process, but sterilising, capping, labelling and packing of glass jars of product is going to be rather similar regardless of whether it's American or Indian pickles; economies of scale may still apply (although I'm not sure whether they are actually exploited in this way)

[Really Not All That Bright]

So what kind of pickles were you talking about? The US kind (gherkins- baby cucumbers in vinegar), or the Indian kind (chutney, basically)?

[Acsenray]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

So what kind of pickles were you talking about? The US kind (gherkins- baby cucumbers in vinegar)

Gherkins are only one kind of American-style cucumber and not even the most popular kind. The most common varieties of deli pickles are made from full-sized cucumbers. Gherkin (pickles) are made from gherkin (cucumbers), which is a variety of cucumber, not just a baby cucumber.

or the Indian kind (chutney, basically)?

Indian pickles (achar) are not chutney, not even basically. Pickles are storable for long periods. Chutney is meant to be eaten immediately; it's not the result of a preservation process.

[jjimm]

Originally Posted by acsenray

Chutney is meant to be eaten immediately; it's not the result of a preservation process.

Another UK/US/India nomenclature problem: chutney here is pickled veg preserved in sugar and vinegar.

[qubed]

I don't think it spent 9 months getting to you. I think it spent 8 months on your neighborhood store's shelves.

[Mesquite-oh]

Originally Posted by alanak

I don't think it spent 9 months getting to you. I think it spent 8 months on your neighborhood store's shelves.

I am not sure about that. This is a humongus high volume store. If you go shopping at 12:00am, a lot of the shelves are more than half empty. Then an army of guys come out with these forklift things, pretend that you are not there, then start slinging stuff around like they only have 3 minutes to stock the whole store. Those pickles had to be either in transit or being stored somewhere for most of those months. Ten jars of Indian made Polish Crunchy Dills do not last long in my neighborhood, defintely not 8 or nine months.

[Surok]

Originally Posted by jjimm

Another UK/US/India nomenclature problem: chutney here is pickled veg preserved in sugar and vinegar.

It might include fruit, might it not, in UK parlance?

Apple and onion chutney, for example.

[Acsenray]

Originally Posted by jjimm

Another UK/US/India nomenclature problem: chutney here is pickled veg preserved in sugar and vinegar.

Which makes U.K. chutney a third species of condiment, because it's not the same thing as achar, and the statement that the Indian kind of pickles are basically chutney is still wrong.

So what kind of pickles is the OP talking about?

American-style brine or vinegar-pickled cucumbers?
British-style vinegar-pickled onions (or other vegetables)?
Achar (Indian-style oil-pickled vegetables)?
U.K. chutney (sugar-and-vinegar pickled vegetables)?

[Mesquite-oh]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

So what kind of pickles were you talking about? The US kind (gherkins- baby cucumbers in vinegar), or the Indian kind (chutney, basically)?

What kind of pickles are they? Logically, they are the grocery store's brand of "Polish Crunchy Dill", of course. They are 4 inch cucumbers in a spicy vinegar liquid that allegedly is from a recipe of Polish origin. They are very good when chilled- as good as that incredibly expensive $2.29 Stork kind.

I can't even believe that it does not cost more than $1.59 per unit to get the two or three cargo containers full of pickles off the damn boat in Houston (or Los Angeles), onto a trailer or train, then unload them at the distribution center, then get them into trucks again, then take them to the local store and get them placed on the shelves. I am not even talking about the production of the actual product or the shipping from India. Someone, somewhere is getting screwed big time.

[jjimm]

Actuallty, ascenray, you're not entirely correct: the very Indian mango chutney is indeed a preserve, and is very like the British variety (which does indeed sometimes contain fruit).

Anyway, I think the OP is referring to American-style pickles in vinegar.

[Acsenray]

Originally Posted by jjimm

Actuallty, ascenray, you're not entirely correct: the very Indian mango chutney is indeed a preserve

Mango chutney as part of traditional Indian cuisine is meant to be eaten fresh. Of course, any food that is canned or jarred for commercial sale is going to have some preservatory characteristics -- that's the whole point of canning or jarring.

The point remains that "Indian pickle" is achar and chutney is not achar; therefore, the claim that "Indian pickle is basically chutney" is wrong. It's like saying "French pickle is basically mayonnaise."

[jjimm]

Originally Posted by acsenray

the claim that "Indian pickle is basically chutney" is wrong.

Yes, fair enough.