Why aren't there real life rape videos?

[Small British Shop Owner]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't done any first hand research into this for obvious reasons, but I understand from the media that it is relatively easy to lay ones hands on child pornography.

I've never heard about real life snuff videos though, be that rape or rape-murders. It doesn't seem to me that it would be much harder or riskier to "produce" one of these videos and release it onto the internet than it would be to produce a video of child abuse. So why is there so many videos of abuse of one kind but not the other?

[Renob]

For one, I think it's probably easier to victimize a kid than it is to victimize an adult. From what I understand, child pornographers can at times produce their product without the kids knowing they were being victimized. I don't think you can say the same about rape or murder.

But is there really a market for these videoes? Maybe I've never heard of such a market because of the absence of the product, but I don't know that there are a lot of folks clamoring for real rape or snuff films.

[Small British Shop Owner]

Originally Posted by Renob

For one, I think it's probably easier to victimize a kid than it is to victimize an adult. From what I understand, child pornographers can at times produce their product without the kids knowing they were being victimized. I don't think you can say the same about rape or murder.

But is there really a market for these videoes? Maybe I've never heard of such a market because of the absence of the product, but I don't know that there are a lot of folks clamoring for real rape or snuff films.

There are some sick people out there, so I'm sure there's a market. Or people could just record what they enjoy doing themselves.

And I would have thought that people could just victimize the mentally handicapped (or comatoze)?

[panache45]

Originally Posted by Renob

But is there really a market for these videoes? Maybe I've never heard of such a market because of the absence of the product, but I don't know that there are a lot of folks clamoring for real rape or snuff films.

You'd be amazed. Really.

[Paul in Qatar]

Everything is on video nowadays. I note some British fishermen have been caught on a video killing dolphins, for example. So I presume at least some rape videos exist.

[Cervaise]

Originally Posted by Paul in Saudi

I note some British fishermen have been caught on a video killing dolphins, for example. So I presume at least some rape videos exist.

British fishermen rape dolphins?

[El Zagna]

In parts of Asia there is a growing problem of women being raped in trains on their daily commute. These trains are very crowded, and the MO is to get enough guys to surround the victim that they create a barrier to any witnesses. These rapes are often filmed and posted to the Internet. There is a word for this phenomenon but I can't remember what it is. There are also sites devoted to it. I'm sure with a little googling you can find them.

A caveat to anyone looking for titillation: Whatever erotic rape fantasies you may have will quickly evaporate when you see the look on these girls faces - and many are high school age girls. It's pretty awful stuff.

[Guinastasia]

Maybe they don't want a filmed record of their crime? (of course, the same could be said about child porn, so....)

Who knows?

[T_SQUARE]

Originally Posted by El Zagna

In parts of Asia there is a growing problem of women being raped in trains on their daily commute. These trains are very crowded, and the MO is to get enough guys to surround the victim that they create a barrier to any witnesses. These rapes are often filmed and posted to the Internet. There is a word for this phenomenon but I can't remember what it is. There are also sites devoted to it. I'm sure with a little googling you can find them.

A caveat to anyone looking for titillation: Whatever erotic rape fantasies you may have will quickly evaporate when you see the look on these girls faces - and many are high school age girls. It's pretty awful stuff.

Sounds like an urban legend or just a regular old porn shoot where the "victim" is an actress.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Paul in Saudi

Everything is on video nowadays. I note some British fishermen have been caught on a video killing dolphins, for example. So I presume at least some rape videos exist.

Close. They were Brazilian.

[Monkeysaretasty]

Creepy internet pervert checking in.

There are plenty of actual rape videos, along with every sexual deviancy imaginable, on Freenet, though it is slower than dirt. Rape videos are also widely available on various P2P networks as well, though there is a ton of fakes to sort through.

[T_SQUARE]

Originally Posted by Monkeysaretasty

Creepy internet pervert checking in.

There are plenty of actual rape videos, along with every sexual deviancy imaginable, on Freenet, though it is slower than dirt. Rape videos are also widely available on various P2P networks as well, though there is a ton of fakes to sort through.

How do you tell if it is real or not? Didn't those "Faces of Death" videos look like pretty convincing snuff films but turn out to be fake?

[Wee Bairn]

One clue that they're fake- you see the same actress in multiple videos

But seriously, they do exist, not necessarily posted on rape/sex websites. Criminal rapists have at times taped their crimes (the couple in Canada IIRC for one), its just that the media has thankfully drawn the line at televising the ones they get, and I assume many remain court evidence and don't make it to the media. HBO several years ago had some show on shocking crime and played excerpts of one such homemade one.

[Malacandra]

The nearest I've seen, though, is on sites that make it perfectly clear that all pictures are posed for by models, and that their depiction of fantasy rape is emphatically not an endorsement of real rape, which they vilify.

Since there have been people that have recorded violent assault on camera phones, though, I'd be astonished if there weren't some genuine rape videos out there.

[Little Nemo]

Maybe it's just the case that the media hasn't decided to sensationalize rape videos. Using child pornography as an example, there's probably a 10000:1 ratio between the amount of videos people have heard exist to the ones that actually exist.

[Strinka]

That actually happened around here, I think last fall. Several high school boys raped a mentally challenged girl and videotaped it. They tried to sell it at their school and as you might imagine, got caught and arrested pretty quickly. I imagine that's the reason it doesn't happen more often.

[Steve MB]

Originally Posted by Strinka

That actually happened around here, I think last fall. Several high school boys raped a mentally challenged girl and videotaped it. They tried to sell it at their school

Sounds like the victim isn't the only "mentally challeneged" person involved....

[Max Torque]

Originally Posted by Small British Shop Owner

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't done any first hand research into this for obvious reasons, but I understand from the media that it is relatively easy to lay ones hands on child pornography.

I've never heard about real life snuff videos though, be that rape or rape-murders. It doesn't seem to me that it would be much harder or riskier to "produce" one of these videos and release it onto the internet than it would be to produce a video of child abuse. So why is there so many videos of abuse of one kind but not the other?

If you want to be technical, any child pornography video would also be a rape video, if the child is below the age of consent. It may be statutory rather than forcible-stranger, but still rape.

[Small British Shop Owner]

Originally Posted by Max Torque

If you want to be technical, any child pornography video would also be a rape video, if the child is below the age of consent. It may be statutory rather than forcible-stranger, but still rape.

Yes, I had considered that. In fact I was asking this question to do research for my (likely) next Great Debates thread, in which I propose that a lot of child pornography downloaders might just be rape fetishists. But I need the figures first.

[Bridget Burke]

Originally Posted by Small British Shop Owner

Yes, I had considered that. In fact I was asking this question to do research for my (likely) next Great Debates thread, in which I propose that a lot of child pornography downloaders might just be rape fetishists. But I need the figures first.

Well, some who've been found with child porn on their hard drives insisted they were merely "doing research."

Perhaps you should personally investigate what's available on the web, since you find child / rape porn so fascinating. Don't ask someone else to do your dirty work.

Remember that "doing research" excuse. It might come in handy.

[Small British Shop Owner]

Originally Posted by Bridget Burke

Perhaps you should personally investigate what's available on the web, since you find child / rape porn so fascinating. Don't ask someone else to do your dirty work.

Remember that "doing research" excuse. It might come in handy.

Perhaps you shouldn't insinuate what you appear to be insinuating.

[groman]

Originally Posted by Bridget Burke

Well, some who've been found with child porn on their hard drives insisted they were merely "doing research."

Perhaps you should personally investigate what's available on the web, since you find child / rape porn so fascinating. Don't ask someone else to do your dirty work.

Remember that "doing research" excuse. It might come in handy.

This comment brings up an interesting question - how exactly does somebody do research on child pornography in a legit manner?

If you want to study submachine guns in person, you can theoretically file for a Class III permit with the BATF and get submachine guns from federally licensed gun brokers, manufacturers or even in an online auction

If you want to study effects of MDMA you theoretically file for a DEA license and get really expensive E from a chemical supply company.

If you're an academic who wants to, for example, study some aspect of child pornography, what kind of sanction can you receive and is there a legal source of confiscated child pornography?

Along the same lines, what if you're a researcher who wants to study purity of street MDMA. How exactly do you get a hold of street MDMA legally?

[Baron Greenback]

Originally Posted by groman

If you're an academic who wants to, for example, study some aspect of child pornography, what kind of sanction can you receive and is there a legal source of confiscated child pornography?

Along the same lines, what if you're a researcher who wants to study purity of street MDMA. How exactly do you get a hold of street MDMA legally?

In the UK, an application can be made to the Home Office (obviously with the backing of an established academic institution) for access to otherwise illegal materials. Presumably the material can be sourced from the Police or Customs as available.

[chowder]

Seconded

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by Small British Shop Owner

I've never heard about real life snuff videos though, be that rape or rape-murders. It doesn't seem to me that it would be much harder or riskier to "produce" one of these videos and release it onto the internet than it would be to produce a video of child abuse. So why is there so many videos of abuse of one kind but not the other?

The Master Speaks on "Snuff" films (Although article may need updating since the arrival of cell phone cameras, etc.)

[Gr8Kat]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

The Master Speaks on "Snuff" films (Although article may need updating since the arrival of cell phone cameras, etc.)

The website Film Threat recently posted a documentary called "Does Snuff Exist?" It's mostly NSFW so I hope this keeps with the two-click rule:

1. Go to this page http://www.filmthreat.com/index.php?...match=0&page=1

2. Scroll down to 2007-5-15 Does Snuff Exist?

The filmmakers basically agree with Cecil, but also agree with you, Lumpy, that cell phone cameras change everything. In fact, by their definition of "snuff film," (ie, a murder filmed to be distributed commercially) one has already been created by a group of girls who used a cell phone to record themselves beating a man to death and distributed it via email for a fee. No rape involved, but definitely snuff.

[obfusciatrist]

Is this being designed as an actual rape or murder committed and filmed for the explicit purpose of distribution?

Since many rapists and murderers have photographed and taped parts or the entirety of their acts I have no doubt that they exist and that some are in some form of circulation. But that probably wasn't the intention of the filming. Or they have been caught unintentionally by security cameras.

I think the drawback to actually doing it for the sole purpose of distribution is that it can be pretty realistically faked and the fake will have few of the potential repercussions. Plus, more money can be made by faking it and telling people it is fake because then it is socially acceptable for everybody to be entertainment by the torture and or mutilation (see, for example, Hostel II).