D & D on the Straight Dope setup thread. (In Middle Earth FA63)

[What Exit?]

1. Please let me know how much of Middle Earth you know. (Book Knowledge, Movie knowledge or both)
2. If you know 1st edition rules.
3. Let me know what type of character you would like to play. You should already have some idea reading this thread what I allow and don't.

The turns will be 2 days or when all are in. I think with two day turns I can handle up to 8 players. I'll see how it goes.
We will be dice free.

It will be mostly 1st edition D&D game in ME. The game would lean to the heroic rather than the mundane. Magic Items will rarely match up to the rulebooks and monsters are different; heavy on Undead, Orc types, Trolls and evil humans.

Character Races would come from Humans, Dunedain, Woses (Drúadan, Pukel Men), Beornings, Noldorians, Sindarin or Silvan Elves, Khazad and other Dwarves and of course the Hobbits.
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It looks like the early consensus is to start at 3rd level. This will also allow for very variable ages of characters.
Proficiencies:
Fighters get 4 and 1/3 so start with 5 in this case. May specialize in one weapon, gaining a +1 to hit and +2 dam and +1 on initiative.
Rangers get 3 and 1/3 so start with 3. They may toss the extras into Tracking and Herbology.
Wizards only get one and rarely add. No restrictions in this world on type, but Staff are the traditional weapon as Wizards also work towards building a powerful magic staff. This gets complicated, but won’t matter until 11th level.
Thieves get 2 to start. They may also specialize, but specialization must be in a back-stabbing weapon.
Clerics get 2 I think, I need to check, but weapons vary by Valar Patron.
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As a compromise for game play, alchemy is flourishing and potions are available. Wizards are training up in Minas Tirith, Dol
Amroth, Ithilien, Fornost and Umbar.
Rangers always do well in my games as do Hobbit treasure finders. Dwarves make great front line fighters, I try to start them with better armor than average.
Elves have a huge advantage in life span and resistances.
As I have a lot of Undead roaming around, I generally don’t have automatic life drains. I usually give characters a saving throw against paralysis, possibly with a +/- depending on the creature. Expect to see a lot of Orcs, Uruk Hai and Wargs.
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I don't allow Assassins at all. I actually cannot (will not) ref evil characters. I should have mentioned that in the thread and I will. Believe me, playing evil in my worlds, leads to a short unhappy character life. I have not allowed an evil PC in nearly 20 years now.

I do allow odd things like Hobbit & Elven Bards that start as F/TH multi-class and then become a Bard sometime between 6th to 9th level. I have allowed Ranger/Bards where the character goes to 10th as a Ranger and then switches to Bard. This is restricted to the long lived Dunedain.

Dwarves could be clerics of Aüle. They may still use axes as a weapon choice but prefer large war hammers and war shields.

Elves cannot be Clerics or Druids at all.

Did I mention that there are no Gnomes? If you really want a Gnome, we can make you some stunted off family of Dwarves I suppose.
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I think I will rely on PMs, Posts and Email for game play, I am very uncomfortable with IM and I don’t want the extra headache. Just me being me, I understand this is odd these days.
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I need to work up a system for combat where players give general directives so more than a round could be resolved at a time.

My rough early idea is along the lines of:

Bowyers: I will endeavor to keep the orcs at medium bow range providing cover for those in melee and moving forward or back at a steady pace as needed. If I am rushed, I will turn and run, I will look for already injured orcs and try to finish them off where possible.

Or Melee guys, I will strive to find the leader, but at all times seek to work as a unit protecting each others flanks. If the numbers appear too bad or our injuries mount I will attempt to disengage long enough to quaff my potion of speed.

Or Spellcasters: I will seek an optimal time and grouping of the enemy to use my sleep spell. In the meantime, if I see enemy spell casters, I am prepared to magic missile them to attempt to disrupt their spells. When and if I run out of spells, I will cautiously approach the battle and look for safe opportunities to hit an orc from the blind side with my weapon.

Or Hobbits: I'll hide until it is really inconvenient, attempt to take on the biggest orc on the battle field and then have to be rescued by the wizard
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Note on time: I am looking at FA 63 for the starting time.
In this year: • 63 - Meriadoc Brandybuck, aged 102, and Pippin leave the Shire to live in Gondor; death of Éomer, aged 93, whose son Elfwine ascends the throne of Rohan.
Sam went over the see in 61, Eldarion is 20 born in 43FA. There are also 3 younger daughters.
Notes: this means that Aragorn, Faramir, Arwen, Merry, Pippin & Sam, Gimli & Legolas are all around. Elrohir & Elladan keep Rivendell going with Glorfindel among the Lords still in residence. Radagast is maintaining his residence in Southern Mirkwood and is currently training up a small group of specialized spell casters that we will call Druids. I won’t encourage Clerics, but I can accommodate one if truly desired. The Cleric would pick a Patron from among the Valar. The abilities of the Clerics would be less generalized than in the players handbook.


Some other background:
It is safe to assume a post-war baby boom and rapid population growth throughout Gondor and Arnor, Timing it is 63 FA which interestingly is about as far as we are from WWII. The difference being that Gondor and Arnor are being rebuilt under the sure and steady hand of Aragorn and Arwen with help from the Elves and the Dwarves. The Glittering Caves is a going concern and Legolas had led a small number of his folk to reside in Ithilien and aid Faramir & Aragorn in War & Peace. Osgiliath is rebuilding quickly and Minas Tirith now has Mithril Steel Gates.

The Orthanc is under the Stewardship of Fangorn, but a small colony of humans live in harmony with nature in Isengard. The Tower was cleaned out by Gandalf, Radagast & Arwen with some help from her brothers.

Probable Characters so far:
CatInASuit: Hobbit rogue (a Took Treasure Finder)
appleciders: Elven wizard or maybe Human.
Elendil's Heir: Human fighter (Gondorian)
NAF1138: Dwarven fighter for Aglarond but born at Erebor and fought at Battle of Dale in the War.
d_odds: Human ranger (Dale) Descendant of People that fought at the Battle of Dale
Koldanar: No character idea yet.

[What Exit?]

Just so you understand, the War Shield is actually a weapon and shield. It is spiked with sharp hardened edges and the entire thing is made out of strong steel.

You could fight Battle Axe and War Shield and the same time. It can be handy to have that extra attack and defense at the same time.

To put things in perspective.

A basic orc gets a D8 hit points. Lets say an average of 6HP.

The Dwarven Axe (both hands) does 2-12 versus Orc sized creatures and 1-10 versus large.

The Battle Axe does 1-8 vs. any creature.
The War Shield does 2-7 vs Orc size and 1-6 vs large.

There is also something called penetration. This is where the Dwarven Axe (Dwaxe) shines and the Battle Axe and War Shield are not as good.

Basically the Dwarven Axe is excellent at cutting through heavy armor and other too and not great.

Against Orcs this rarely matters as they tend to crappy armor, but against well armored humans, the Dwaxe would be a better choice. The War Hammer is also excellent for penetration.

You might want to specialize in Axes and take War Shield and switch of on weapons depending on the foe. Go with Baxe and Was Shield vs. Orcs and lightly armored weak foes and go with the Dwaxe vs. well armored.

I will send my Penetration and weapons chart via Email to anyone that wants to see it. It is in Excel.

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

I will send my Penetration and weapons chart via Email to anyone that wants to see it. It is in Excel.

I think I will take that. Email is in my profile.

And since you asked at the top of the thread:

1. I have read the hobbit a half dozen times, and have watched the animated verison more times then I can count while I was growing up. I have read LOTR only once. But have seen all three live action movies in original and extended editions, as well as the Bakshi animated movie. I know the big stuff, but know where to look to find out the rest.

2. I know almost nothing about D&D let alone any specific edition rules. All I know about D&D I learned from Order of the Stick, which (it is turning out) isn't that bad a start.

3. Dwarf fighter. I like axes.

[D_Odds]

Quick errata, Jim. If Sam sailed from the Grey Havens in 61 (actually, I think it was in 62, but that is getting really nit-picky ), then he won't be around in 63. Faramir will be quite old and telling PC's to get off his lawn.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by D_Odds

Quick errata, Jim. If Sam sailed from the Grey Havens in 61 (actually, I think it was in 62, but that is getting really nit-picky ), then he won't be around in 63. Faramir will be quite old and telling PC's to get off his lawn.

Good Point. That is what I get for pulling parts of too many posts, PMs and Emails into one.

Faramir will be old, but remember he is from a high house of the Dunedain and was young for the war. he was born in 2983 and so was only 38. It is Eowyn who will be very aged. She was born in 2995 and was 26 for the war. In 63 she will be 89 already. Ancient for her people. Faramir still has 19 more year and will remain fairly hale until nearer the end.

Samwise did leave in 62, another mistake. I should not have done that from memory.

Jim

[What Exit?]

Thanks to a timely QtM post in another thread, we have a handt reference for the Seven houses of the Dwarves.

Longbeards (Durin Folk or Khazad), Firebeards, Broadbeams, Ironfists, Stiffbeards, Blacklocks, & Stonefoots (Stonefeet?)

[OneCentStamp]

I'd like to join. I'm pretty familiar with Tolkien as well as D&D 1st Edition.

How about a Rohirrim fighter, maybe a fellow on horseback with spear, sword and, in a pinch, bow?

[D_Odds]

Just keeping you honest! I'll assume the first 100 orcs we face are all aiming for me as payback.

Brin of Dale has served as a scout, mostly on border patrol, in the lands surrounding twice re-built Dale. Most of his service has been tracking goblin raiding parties and marking their lairs and camps for the stronger patrols. He is known for his bow skills, something he has practiced since the first time his mother told him the story of Bard, former King of Dale and Slayer of Smaug the Magnificent.

[appleciders]

Damn burrahobbits ate my post. Here's the retyped version:

What's a proficiency? I know nothing. If I'm right in assuming that it's a learned skill with a weapon, then as a wizard I'll take the staff, naturally, with a personal preference for a slightly smaller, lighter, and quicker weapon than Gandalf or Saruman.

Deor, named for the seventh King of Rohan, a distant relation, is a seventh son of a seventh son of a poor Rohirrim family of Edoras and has been sent off to Minas Tirith for his initiation into the arcane arts by the masters there. Growing up in Rohan, he's quite skilled with horses but has no natural talent, only experience. Slighter and smaller than his brothers, he's an intellectual with an interest in both the natural world and magic, leading his family to send him off to Minas Tirith after being identified by Radagast as a potentially skilled wizard. He's also got a natural interest in alchemy but has never been given a chance to learn anything about it. And, if OneCentStamp is ok with it, Deor is OneCentStamp's youngest brother.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by appleciders

Damn burrahobbits ate my post. Here's the retyped version:

What's a proficiency? I know nothing. If I'm right in assuming that it's a learned skill with a weapon, then as a wizard I'll take the staff, naturally, with a personal preference for a slightly smaller, lighter, and quicker weapon than Gandalf or Saruman.

Deor, named for the seventh King of Rohan, a distant relation, is a seventh son of a seventh son of a poor Rohirrim family of Edoras and has been sent off to Minas Tirith for his initiation into the arcane arts by the masters there. Growing up in Rohan, he's quite skilled with horses but has no natural talent, only experience. Slighter and smaller than his brothers, he's an intellectual with an interest in both the natural world and magic, leading his family to send him off to Minas Tirith after being identified by Radagast as a potentially skilled wizard. He's also got a natural interest in alchemy but has never been given a chance to learn anything about it. And, if OneCentStamp is ok with it, Deor is OneCentStamp's youngest brother.

Sounds good, Wizards only get one proficiency to start anyway.

It would not be Radagast, he only trains the Druids and occasionally helps the Bards and Spell using Rangers.

Minas Tirith has several Wizards and perhaps you show some high wild aptitude as a youngin' like turning your older bossy sister bright blue. That would get your family to send you off to a Wizards as an apprentice (drudge and bond servant).

I think we could even play up the alchemy as your secondary skill if you like. You won't be great at it or have a lab, but you should gain skill as you advance in identifying potions.

Jim

[appleciders]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Sounds good, Wizards only get one proficiency to start anyway.

It would not be Radagast, he only trains the Druids and occasionally helps the Bards and Spell using Rangers.

Minas Tirith has several Wizards and perhaps you show some high wild aptitude as a youngin' like turning your older bossy sister bright blue. That would get your family to send you off to a Wizards as an apprentice (drudge and bond servant).

I think we could even play up the alchemy as your secondary skill if you like. You won't be great at it or have a lab, but you should gain skill as you advance in identifying potions.

Jim

OK, so it's a human wizard of some kind that spots me. That's find.

I figured on playing up alchemy a bit after a while.

Picking a staff as a weapon (besides being in character) will allow me some better options in the end as a spellcaster, right? That's what I'm sort of understanding.

[OneCentStamp]

Originally Posted by appleciders

And, if OneCentStamp is ok with it, Deor is OneCentStamp's youngest brother.

As long as I'm allowed to be quietly envious of his arcane talents, and quietly resentful of my job as the humanshield arrowcushion front line warrior.

ETA: Whoo-hoo! 6000 posts!!

[appleciders]

Originally Posted by OneCentStamp

As long as I'm allowed to be quietly envious of his arcane talents, and quietly resentful of my job as the humanshield arrowcushion front line warrior.

That's ok, I'll be openly whiny, snarky, and generally little-brother-y in return

[CatInASuit]

Greetings all,

Say hello to Mulligan Took, more commonly known as Mal. A nephew of the noble Gondor Knight Peregrin Took, he has come to Minas Tirith to help in the rebuilding of Gondor.

Not a warrior, just here to help out in any way he can.

Oh, and he can cook better than you as well.

[Malacandra]

Hiya,

1) Yup. Book. Seen the movie but book is canon and you know my reputation already.
2) Yup, since 1979.
3) I'll try out one of these modified bards of yours, then. Male Mirkwood elf, answers to "Starharp", can't find my Silmarillion at the moment to try to translate that into Elvish. Put me down for a pair of shortswords and elf bow.

I'll work up some backstory as we go along.

[glee]

1. Read Hobbit, LoTR, Silmarilion, Bombadil poetry (heck, all of 'em!); seen Bakshi and own Jackson's Extended Edition

2. Been playing 1st edition constantly since 1979 (plus running school roleplaying club for 17 years)

3. Happy to play a Druid (can Woses* be Druids? otherwise Human**)

*Ghan-Buri-Ghan
**Treebreeze

Are your proficiencies in weapons (or are you briniging in non-weapon ones)?

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Malacandra

Hiya,

1) Yup. Book. Seen the movie but book is canon and you know my reputation already.
2) Yup, since 1979.
3) I'll try out one of these modified bards of yours, then. Male Mirkwood elf, answers to "Starharp", can't find my Silmarillion at the moment to try to translate that into Elvish. Put me down for a pair of shortswords and elf bow.

I'll work up some backstory as we go along.

Silven or Sindarin is the next question, it is minor, but important.

This should help...
Sindarin
harp/gandel
harp(play a)/gann(ad)o-
harper/talagant

star/gil[geil],él[elenath]
star(small)/tinu
starlight/gilgalad

Quenyan
harp/ngande
harp(little)/ngandelle
harp(play a)/nganda-
harper/tyalangen,ngandáro
harping/ngandele

star/elen
star(Star-jewel)/Elemmíre
star(twinkling)/tingilinde,tingilya
star(Waters)/Nénar
stare/tirila-
starlight/ilma,silma
starlike/elvea

Originally Posted by glee

2. Been playing 1st edition constantly since 1979 (plus running school roleplaying club for 17 years)

3. Happy to play a Druid (can Woses* be Druids? otherwise Human**)
*Ghan-Buri-Ghan

Are your proficiencies in weapons (or are you briniging in non-weapon ones)?

Actually Woses make great Druids. It also helps counter that fact that they are the shortest lived of the player races. The have a "natural" affinity with Druidic arts. All Druids get a herbology skill that progresses as they do. You might want to take one of your proficiencies in the traditional blowgun or small bow at least. Natural Poisons are definitely in your usage and culturally considered normal.
You can apply your second prof. to better herbology if you like or some other major secondary ability.

Sonds like we started playing around the same time. I started with D&D the 3 book set in 1976. We switched to AD&D when the DMs Guide came out. Many in my early got the first printing. I still have mine, but of course it is well worn.

Jim

[What Exit?]

CatInASuit: Hobbit rogue (a Took Treasure Finder)
appleciders: Human Wizard from Rohan.
Elendil's Heir: Human fighter (Gondorian) Sailor & probably Horseman and Navigator. Awaiting more info.
NAF1138: Dwarven fighter for Aglarond but born at Erebor and fought at Battle of Dale in the War. Armourer
d_odds: Human Ranger (Dale) Descendant of People that fought at the Battle of Dale. Archer, Tracker and lesser Herbologist
Koldanar: No character idea yet. (need more feedback)
Malacandra: Elvish Bard (Fighter/Thief to start) Bowyer and swords.
glee: Wose Druid and therefore our primary healer at this point. Trained/Training under Radagast himself.
OneCentStamp: Rohirrim fighter, maybe a fellow on horseback with spear, sword and, in a pinch, bow?

We have a good diverse party, minimizing my need to fill in with NPC's. This is a good thing.

I think that fills what I can handle. In case someone drops out early, someone could still sign up as 1st alternate.

[OneCentStamp]

So I'm not in, after all? That's fine; I'm happy to stand by as an alternate in case someone drops out before the campagin starts.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by OneCentStamp

So I'm not in, after all? That's fine; I'm happy to stand by as an alternate in case someone drops out before the campagin starts.

Sorry, check the edit.

[D_Odds]

Originally Posted by OneCentStamp

So I'm not in, after all? That's fine; I'm happy to stand by as an alternate in case someone drops out before the campagin starts.

I think Jim messed up and will be by in a second to fix things.

ETA: See, I told ya!

[glee]

Originally Posted by glee

Happy to play a Druid (can Woses* be Druids? ... )
*Ghan-Buri-Ghan

Are your proficiencies in weapons (or are you bringing in non-weapon ones)?

Originally Posted by whatexit?

Actually Woses make great Druids. It also helps counter that fact that they are the shortest lived of the player races. The have a "natural" affinity with Druidic arts. All Druids get a herbology skill that progresses as they do. You might want to take one of your proficiencies in the traditional blowgun or small bow at least. Natural Poisons are definitely in your usage and culturally considered normal.
You can apply your second prof. to better herbology if you like or some other major secondary ability.

Sonds like we started playing around the same time. I started with D&D the 3 book set in 1976. We switched to AD&D when the DMs Guide came out. Many in my early got the first printing. I still have mine, but of course it is well worn.

Jim

I remember going to an exhibition at Olympia, London in about 1980 when the DM Guide first came out over here. They sold all 400 copies in 20 minutes!



I'm delighted to be a Wose Druid, as the character has clear motivation.

I'm still not quite sure about the proficiencies, because my AD+D 1st Edition PH only has weapon proficiencies.
(Clerics get 2 initially, and one every 3 levels, if I remember correctly.)

I would like to take one (preferably missile) weapon.
I certainly like the sound of the blowpipe, but would using natural poison cause any alignment problem? Perhaps I could stick to paralysing only?
(If I don't learn a melee weapon, do I attack at a -3 penalty?)

I am happy to be the main healer and so presumably herbology helps with that?
If it does, put me down for advanced herbology.

Background:

My character's tribe is still grateful to Aragorn for driving the Uruk-Hai out of Rohan, and giving us land rights.
I have volunteered to go into the World and help repay this kindness.
As I want to preserve the natural beauty of Middle Earth, it made sense to be trained by Radagast, so I can challenge those who would destroy forests.
In a party, I would try to gather information from plants and animals. I would hold back in a fight, looking to heal (and perhaps 'Summon Insects').
My ambition is to meet an Ent!

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Silven or Sindarin is the next question, it is minor, but important.

This should help...
Sindarin
harp/gandel
harp(play a)/gann(ad)o-
harper/talagant

star/gil[geil],él[elenath]
star(small)/tinu
starlight/gilgalad

Quenyan
harp/ngande
harp(little)/ngandelle
harp(play a)/nganda-
harper/tyalangen,ngandáro
harping/ngandele

star/elen
star(Star-jewel)/Elemmíre
star(twinkling)/tingilinde,tingilya
star(Waters)/Nénar
stare/tirila-
starlight/ilma,silma
starlike/elvea

Gil-Gandel sounds perfectly cromulent, then. Thinking it over, thanks to the film that two-swords idea sounds a little derivative, and I'll amend that to a single bastard sword. If it's possible to tailor thief skills at all, I'll incline towards stealth more, manipulation less - we have a treasure-finder already.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Malacandra

Gil-Gandel sounds perfectly cromulent, then. Thinking it over, thanks to the film that two-swords idea sounds a little derivative, and I'll amend that to a single bastard sword. If it's possible to tailor thief skills at all, I'll incline towards stealth more, manipulation less - we have a treasure-finder already.

Actually, go with the Long and Short. That is a great choice in my world and is common to Elves. You can specialize in the swords or the bow. I would recommend the bow. As an Elf of Greenwood you will be picking up a +1 to hit with the Long & Short swords and the Elf Bow.

I still need to know if you are going with Sindar or Silven. Sindar will work better for a Bard. Silven are typically the stronger though.

As to the thieving part, it can be handy to have two people to Open Locks and Detect Traps early, but we can sacrifice the Pick Pockets and push more into the Read Magic and moving silently part. The Treasure Finding Hobbit will by nature be better at the Locks & Traps anyway. He will be much worse at the climbing walls. He will also quickly outpace you as you are multiclass and he has the easiest experience chart by far. You already have a racial advantage on the stealth and hearing portions.



glee: The proficiencies are as per the 1st Ed PH. The variant is I start everyone with reasonable secondary skills. In your case, you can sacrifice a weapon to be even better at herbology. Druids, especially Wose Druid are great herbologist.

As to the weapons, blowdart could be used with paralysis poisons or deadly poisons. You are a True Nuetral, your primary allegiance will be to the woods and nature. You are by nature very anti-orc and despise undead to a degree that only Paladins could match, so you work well with good parties, but would probably want to lay to waste perfectly legal developers that wiped out woods.

I have to check the PH, but 2 +1/4lvls sounds like the Proficiencies for Druid. If you take Blowgun or Bow and a special in Herbology, you will be without a melee skill until 4th level. That is not to far away and has a slight advantage. You could be learning it in game.

D_Odds: The Hobbit, the two Rohirrim and the man of Gondor are already in Minas Tirith. The Wose lives close and should not be a problem. I am even considering a pilgramage to visit the "White Tree".

The Dwarf is not too far, it could be as simple as visiting the big city with Gimli. Simple enough.

Only the two from the North get tricky. I will probably come up with some way for you to travel together to the city. You might be simple messengers. Give me a little time.

Koldanar is going to pass as he has some time limitations. So we either start with 8 or have room for one more.

I have to build an Email list next, is everyone's Email public? Otherwise please Email me so I have your address.

Jim

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Actually, go with the Long and Short. That is a great choice in my world and is common to Elves. You can specialize in the swords or the bow. I would recommend the bow. As an Elf of Greenwood you will be picking up a +1 to hit with the Long & Short swords and the Elf Bow.

I still need to know if you are going with Sindar or Silven. Sindar will work better for a Bard. Silven are typically the stronger though.

As to the thieving part, it can be handy to have two people to Open Locks and Detect Traps early, but we can sacrifice the Pick Pockets and push more into the Read Magic and moving silently part. The Treasure Finding Hobbit will by nature be better at the Locks & Traps anyway. He will be much worse at the climbing walls. He will also quickly outpace you as you are multiclass and he has the easiest experience chart by far. You already have a racial advantage on the stealth and hearing portions.

Okay. I don't see where picking pockets would fit into the character conception I'm coming up with, so that can go.

Let's make him a Sindarin Elf, of the southern portion of Eryn Lasgalen, the "Wood of Green Leaves" as it was renamed at the end of the Third Age. That's the part that was settled by Celeborn and named "East Lorien". Gil-Gandel saw service during the War as part of a unit of scouts and raiders, and has turned to minstrelsy during the ensuing peace. In order to advance to the higher ranks of his chosen profession, he has to compose an epic lay or saga based on events he has witnessed or participated in. His ongoing mission is to collect material for this.

[glee]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

glee: The proficiencies are as per the 1st Ed PH. The variant is I start everyone with reasonable secondary skills. In your case, you can sacrifice a weapon to be even better at herbology. Druids, especially Wose Druid are great herbologist.

As to the weapons, blowdart could be used with paralysis poisons or deadly poisons. You are a True Nuetral, your primary allegiance will be to the woods and nature. You are by nature very anti-orc and despise undead to a degree that only Paladins could match, so you work well with good parties, but would probably want to lay to waste perfectly legal developers that wiped out woods.

I have to check the PH, but 2 +1/4lvls sounds like the Proficiencies for Druid. If you take Blowgun or Bow and a special in Herbology, you will be without a melee skill until 4th level. That is not to far away and has a slight advantage. You could be learning it in game.

If Herbology helps at all with healing, I'll happily delay a melee weapon proficiency until my next proficiency.
I think there are party characters much better at fighting than me!

I appreciate the offer on poison, but think I will stick to paralysing. I revere life and poison just feels wrong.

According to my PH, Druids get 2 proficiencies at 1st level and 1 every 5 levels. I believe this means 6th level before I get another one (I assume you meant 5th level in your example above).

[D_Odds]

So, we've got two jealous brothers, a ranger with an inferiority complex, a dwarf and a Took. This Fellowship for the Fourth Age is going to look more like the cast to Spamalot than Camelot.

[D_Odds]

To help out What Exit? in what is, to me, the hardest part of the game, I'm going to group the known PCs by general area:

Rohan
appleciders: Human Wizard from Rohan
OneCentStamp: Rohirrim fighter, maybe a fellow on horseback with spear, sword and, in a pinch, bow
glee: Wose Druid and therefore our primary healer at this point. Trained/Training under Radagast himself (note: training under Radagast might also put him in Mirkwood)

Gondor
Elendil's Heir: Human fighter (Gondorian) Sailor & probably Horseman and Navigator. Awaiting more info

Erebor / Mirkwood
Malacandra: Elvish Bard (Fighter/Thief to start) Bowyer and swords
NAF1138: Dwarven fighter for Aglarond but born at Erebor and fought at Battle of Dale in the War. Armourer
d_odds: Human Ranger (Dale) Descendant of People that fought at the Battle of Dale. Archer, Tracker and lesser Herbologist

Shire
CatInASuit: Hobbit rogue (a Took Treasure Finder)

For expediency, I might put the Took and Gondorian fighter in Rohan as a diplomatic mission (much the way that Boromir and Gimli ended up in Rivendell). That way, Jim only needs to bring together two seperate groups. Of course, if it were a Brandybuck Treasure Finder, then being in Rohan would be a natural.

Of course, I may just be speaking out of my arse, and Jim is a much better GM than I ever was, and he already has a plan to bring together the group.

[Elendil's Heir]

I'm in. I'd already emailed What Exit? my character profile for Thoroncir, age 20, a swordsman, mariner and sea-knight of Gondor now looking for adventure on land. If you need more info, O great GM, just let me know here or via email.

I believe I know LOTR pretty well, but it's been decades since I played AD&D and I'm pretty rusty on the rules.

[appleciders]

OK, my e-mail's public.

Can anyone (anyone knowledgeable, not necessarily What Exit) explain to me the game mechanics for being a wizard in D&D? I've never played before and after reading on the internet about spellbooks, schools of magic, familiars, and god-knows what all, I'm mightily confused.

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by appleciders

OK, my e-mail's public.

Can anyone (anyone knowledgeable, not necessarily What Exit) explain to me the game mechanics for being a wizard in D&D? I've never played before and after reading on the internet about spellbooks, schools of magic, familiars, and god-knows what all, I'm mightily confused.

Hey, that is a good question (and leads to one of my own). What should/where should I look to help get me up to speed on how to actually play this game once we are done making the characters? I seem to be doing fine tracking things down on the net and asking Jim an insane amount of questions for now, but are there some good reliable sources I can use to help me start actually playing?

[appleciders]

Originally Posted by NAF1138

Hey, that is a good question (and leads to one of my own). What should/where should I look to help get me up to speed on how to actually play this game once we are done making the characters? I seem to be doing fine tracking things down on the net and asking Jim an insane amount of questions for now, but are there some good reliable sources I can use to help me start actually playing?

This is the site that I'm getting all confused from.

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by appleciders

This is the site that I'm getting all confused from.

Oh yeah, that is the one that caused me to PM Jim repeatedly yesterday. It seems to assume you know what you are doing already. Also it seems to have almost nothing in the way of AD&D v.1 rules. Should I track down a player guide or something? Is there an equivalent somewhere on the net for free?

[glee]

Originally Posted by appleciders

OK, my e-mail's public.

Can anyone (anyone knowledgeable, not necessarily What Exit) explain to me the game mechanics for being a wizard in D&D? I've never played before and after reading on the internet about spellbooks, schools of magic, familiars, and god-knows what all, I'm mightily confused.

The mechanics have changed with each new edition (and most games have a few local rules).
However my trusty 1979 1st Edition Players Manual sits beside my computer, so here are the basics (What Exit? can tell you about any changes he uses...):

The Magic-User (MU) does not use armour or shields, can absorb less damage than other character classes (and is pretty weak at fighting).

However they can memorise a set number of spells (depending on their level) each morning, and use them that day. Many of these are powerful, or of real use to the party.
Note that the casting can be interrupted by a successful enemy attack, so Magic-Users usually stand behind the mighty Fighters, away from enemy blows.

For example a 3rd level MU can memorise, then cast, two 1st level and one 2nd level spell per day.
If they have a magic device, such as a Wand of Fear, they can use that to cast extra spells (but these devices are rare and expensive!)

They rely on using a wide range of spells, such as:

Magic Missile (1st), Fireball (3rd) (Offensive)
Shield (1st), Stoneskin (4th) (Defensive)
ESP (2nd), Clairvoyance (3rd) (Informational)
Levitate (2nd), Fly (3rd) (Movement)

MUs need a good Intelligence (Int) characteristic to give themselves a better chance of learning each spell they want to use, and to cast higher-level spells.
For example, 14 Int gives a 55% chance to learn a new spell, and allows 7th level spells to be cast. An 18 Int gives 85% and 9th level respectively.

MUs carry their spells in books, and study them each morning. They can carry lots of books, but must choose just a few spells to learn each day.
If they fail to learn a spell (Int roll), they can never memorise it.

The 1st level spell Find Familiar is interesting. Paying 100 gold and spending up to a day casting gives the MU a good chance (75% at 3rd level) to summon a loyal companion / guard / scout.
The vast majority are animals (like a cat or a toad) and the MU can automatically communicate with it. There is a 5% chance that a powerful magical being will turn up.
The MU gets some extra health, but if the familiar is killed, the MU loses that, plus some extra health - permanently.
So if you do use this spell, look after your familiar!

[appleciders]

And if I'm reading rightly, I can have a given number of spells of given levels prepared and ready to cast at any time, those spells remain prepared and ready to cast indefinitely, and I can't stockpile loads of spells by studying for days and never casting any.

Also, how on earth can I tell what edition of rules I'm reading online? For example, I don't see on the site I'm looking at anything about the 5% chance of a powerful magical being showing up and death of a familiar results in a loss of XP, not health. That makes me suspect that I'm reading a different edition. For that matter, I'm given to understand that there's a difference between straight D&D and AD&D, though it seems like we're using both terms to mean AD&D and that we're actually playing 1st edition AD&D. Is there a place online where I can see 1st edition rules, since those seem to be exactly what we're using? Or are the rule changes minor enough that I shouldn't worry?

And more specifically to What Exit, being 3rd level, do I start out with spells that I would have learned in leveling up, or do I just have access to what I find in-game?

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by appleciders

Can anyone (anyone knowledgeable, not necessarily What Exit) explain to me the game mechanics for being a wizard in D&D? I've never played before and after reading on the internet about spellbooks, schools of magic, familiars, and god-knows what all, I'm mightily confused.

Primer for AD&D 1st Ed/Jim's MERP rules:
At 3rd level you have 2 1st and 1 2nd level spell. Additionally you get 3 cantrips + 1 per level. Cantrips are very simple little weak spells like the ability to change to color of your hair for a few hours or cause someone to sneeze (they get a save) etc.

Additionally to add some flexibility spell points may be traded off.
A 1st = 3 cantrips, a 2nd = 1+2 cantrips, a 3rd=2 1st or a 2nd. Trading done yield a number of spell points equal to the level -1. You may also trade up. This required 50% more points than the level. So to get an extra 3rd, you would need 5 spell points. example would be 2 2nds + 1 1st.

Starting spells are those you have in a spell book. You will start the game with several 1st and 2nd level spells. You will then need to learn by trade or reward more spells or may research more spells. I will probably be nice and start you with a random 3rd level spell also.

BTW: Mages get a Read Magic ability of Intelligence*2+5%xLevel. (2*Int+5*Lvl)

The Find Familiar Spell and the Identify are too very important ones.

I'll ask, is there a smallish animal you have a strong affinity to? I will probably design your familiar based on that.

Identify is a spell that gives you a chance to identify magic item abilities. Generally you don't memorize this, but you will have it.

Originally Posted by Malacandra

Okay. I don't see where picking pockets would fit into the character conception I'm coming up with, so that can go.

Let's make him a Sindarin Elf, of the southern portion of Eryn Lasgalen, the "Wood of Green Leaves" as it was renamed at the end of the Third Age. That's the part that was settled by Celeborn and named "East Lorien". Gil-Gandel saw service during the War as part of a unit of scouts and raiders, and has turned to minstrelsy during the ensuing peace. In order to advance to the higher ranks of his chosen profession, he has to compose an epic lay or saga based on events he has witnessed or participated in. His ongoing mission is to collect material for this.

This sounds great. I forgot to ask, what is your chosen instrument?

Originally Posted by NAF1138

Hey, that is a good question (and leads to one of my own). What should/where should I look to help get me up to speed on how to actually play this game once we are done making the characters? I seem to be doing fine tracking things down on the net and asking Jim an insane amount of questions for now, but are there some good reliable sources I can use to help me start actually playing?

I don't know any specific web sites for 1st addition. But I will try to provide a primer over the next weak. I will send out weapon charts, Herb lists and some maps. I will send appleciders details on his spells.

Originally Posted by glee

If Herbology helps at all with healing, I'll happily delay a melee weapon proficiency until my next proficiency.
I think there are party characters much better at fighting than me!

I appreciate the offer on poison, but think I will stick to paralysing. I revere life and poison just feels wrong.

According to my PH, Druids get 2 proficiencies at 1st level and 1 every 5 levels. I believe this means 6th level before I get another one (I assume you meant 5th level in your example above).

Glee, I am happy you are a 1st Ed player. As a Druid you will have far more spells than the Mage. Do you own Unearthed Arcana? I allow some spells from there.

Herbology is mostly about healing, though in your case it might also be about blow dart additives.


Beginning of the Primer
I roll a random special ability for each character. I have my own chart that I use.
I will determine starting money and base items. Each of you will have at least one magic item of some sort.
I will send out Stats and Hit Points.
I will provide typical height and weight ranges and life expectancies.
You will each have a secondary ability. Most of these are pretty much determined.

Proficiency Table I use:
Class, Starting Weapon Proficiencies, Non Proficiency Weapon use penalty & what level you get your next Proficiency. Note: if 1/3, you get it at 3rd.
Class.... | S |Non|Next
Cleric.... | 2 | -3 | 1/4|
Druid.... | 2 | -4 | 1/5| (1@14th)
Fight.... | 4 | -2 | 1/3|
Paladin. | 3 | -2 | 1/3|
Ranger. | 3 | -2 | 1/3|
Wizard. | 1 | -5 | 1/6|
Illusion. | 1 | -5 | 1/6|
Thief... | 2 | -3 | 1/4|
Bard.....| * | -2 | 1/5|

Proficiency groups:
Xbow: all cross bows
Elf Bow: specific to rapid firing special Elven Bow.
Bows: Short, Long & Composition Bows.
Sword: Long & Short
Blades: Short Sword, Dagger & Parry Blade
2 handed: 2H & Bastard
Axe: Battle, Great & Dwarven
Small Axe: Throw or fight with Hand Axe
Lances: All Lances
Spears: Spears, Javelins & Pikes
Poleaxe: Poleaxe, Halberd, Voulge, Bardiche
Maces: Maces & Morning Star
Flails: Infantry or Horse
Darts: Darts & throwing knives.
Dagger: Throw or Melee

War Shield: Fight with a Dwarven War Shield.

Two weapon Fighting:
Dexterity Reaction plays big in this.

A Dwarf as an example could use Battle Axe and War Shield. He suffers a -1 & -3 to hit reduce by Dex Reaction.

Many Elves use Long & Short Sword or Dual Short Swords. Long & Short needs a high Strength and Dex. Penalties can be as bad as -2/-4 or as little as no penalty.
For Short and Short, Penalties are usually 0/-2.

Some Hobbits like dual knives and a brace of Knives. Assuming a high dex, they have no penalties and also throw a knife, while fighting with the others.

Exceptional Humans will use two weapons, but typically are more prone to Larger Swords.

Bows get two shots per round except the Elven Bow that gets 3.

Strong Bows may be available, but no one will start with one. They add strength bonuses and are therefore a fearsome weapon.

Xbows are slow, with the Heavy only shooting once every two rounds. However there is a compromise for Dwarves. An exceptional well crafted Dwarven Xbow that shoots every round and has nearly the penetration of a heavy.

Dwarves and Knights of Gondor and Rohan typically have the toughest armor. Rangers tend to Chain Mail and hope to get the well made Elven Chain that is strangely enough typically built by Dwarves instead. There is a long story behind this.

More to come...

[glee]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Glee, I am happy you are a 1st Ed player. As a Druid you will have far more spells than the Mage. Do you own Unearthed Arcana? I allow some spells from there.

The Druid will not only be fun to play, but I knew there would be more spells (and I get higher level ones quickly too!). Of course every party needs a healer.

I do indeed have Unearthed Arcana.
From there I hope I can use these:

1st level Ceremony, Detect Poison
2nd level Flame Blade, Goodberry, Reflecting Pool*, Slow Poison

*My group think this is too low level compared to the MU equivalent...

I expect to get at 3rd level 3*1st, 2*2nd, 1*3rd level spells, plus Wisdom bonuses.
Typical spells considered for adventuring:

1st: Speak Animals, Detect Magic, Animal Friendship, Entangle, Faerie Fire
2nd: Cure Light Wounds, Goodberry, Flame Blade, Heat Metal, Charm Person or Mammal
3rd: Summon Insects, Call Lightning

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Herbology is mostly about healing, though in your case it might also be about blow dart additives.

Perfect.

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Beginning of the Primer
I roll a random special ability for each character. I have my own chart that I use.
I will determine starting money and base items. Each of you will have at least one magic item of some sort.
I will send out Stats and Hit Points.
I will provide typical height and weight ranges and life expectancies.
You will each have a secondary ability. Most of these are pretty much determined.

Proficiency Table I use:
Class, Starting Weapon Proficiencies, Non Proficiency Weapon use penalty & what level you get your next Proficiency. Note: if 1/3, you get it at 3rd.
Class.... | S |Non|Next
Cleric.... | 2 | -3 | 1/4|
Druid.... | 2 | -4 | 1/5| (1@14th)
Fight.... | 4 | -2 | 1/3|
Paladin. | 3 | -2 | 1/3|
Ranger. | 3 | -2 | 1/3|
Wizard. | 1 | -5 | 1/6|
Illusion. | 1 | -5 | 1/6|
Thief... | 2 | -3 | 1/4|
Bard.....| * | -2 | 1/5|

Proficiency groups:
Xbow: all cross bows
Elf Bow: specific to rapid firing special Elven Bow.
Bows: Short, Long & Composition Bows.
Sword: Long & Short
Blades: Short Sword, Dagger & Parry Blade
2 handed: 2H & Bastard
Axe: Battle, Great & Dwarven
Small Axe: Throw or fight with Hand Axe
Lances: All Lances
Spears: Spears, Javelins & Pikes
Poleaxe: Poleaxe, Halberd, Voulge, Bardiche
Maces: Maces & Morning Star
Flails: Infantry or Horse
Darts: Darts & throwing knives.
Dagger: Throw or Melee

I assume blowpipe is a special!
Also you give proficiencies earlier than I do (not a problem!).

Are you happy with me puttiing all this on the thread, or would you like an e-mail about my character?

[What Exit?]

A favor please: Everyone playing, send me an Email. It will save me a little Time. D_Odds & Elendil's Heir already have.

Originally Posted by glee

I do indeed have Unearthed Arcana.
From there I hope I can use these:

1st level Ceremony, Detect Poison
2nd level Flame Blade, Goodberry, Reflecting Pool*, Slow Poison

*My group think this is too low level compared to the MU equivalent...

I expect to get at 3rd level 3*1st, 2*2nd, 1*3rd level spells, plus Wisdom bonuses.
Typical spells considered for adventuring:

1st: Speak Animals, Detect Magic, Animal Friendship, Entangle, Faerie Fire
2nd: Cure Light Wounds, Goodberry, Flame Blade, Heat Metal, Charm Person or Mammal
3rd: Summon Insects, Call Lightning

Perfect.

I assume blowpipe is a special!
Also you give proficiencies earlier than I do (not a problem!).

Are you happy with me puttiing all this on the thread, or would you like an e-mail about my character?

Your spells from Arcana are all ones I allow.
Thanks for the spell list, post, PM or Email all work.
Blowpipe is a special.

Originally Posted by glee

There's no MU specialisation in 1st Edition (but I don't know the MERP rules that What Exit? is using).

No spell specialization from the start. A Wizard with a staff does end up specialized in a group or class of spells. Examples would be Fire Spells or Detection spells or Dispelling Magic.

Originally Posted by Malacandra

glee is totally going to kick butt. I'll just have to avoid hand to hand like the plague, what with being functionally indistinguishable from a fighter/thief for many levels to come.

Bow wouldn't normally be a bard weapon, of course, but whoever heard of a Sindar using a sling?

Bow is a standard Bardic weapon in my game, their is even a synergy between Bow and Harp. The Bards are fairly Celtic or Welsh in nature, so I have always allowed bow. Sling is a Hobbit weapon in my mind.

As to HtoH combat, I was expecting you to mix that and bowing. That was why I suggested the dual weapons.

Jim

[Elendil's Heir]

Things are shaping up very nicely indeed! This is gonna be fun. I don't think I specified it, What Exit?, but Thoroncir's skill would be with a longsword, not a short.

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Bow is a standard Bardic weapon in my game, their is even a synergy between Bow and Harp. The Bards are fairly Celtic or Welsh in nature, so I have always allowed bow. Sling is a Hobbit weapon in my mind.

As to HtoH combat, I was expecting you to mix that and bowing. That was why I suggested the dual weapons.

Jim

Understood, and Gil-Gandel will cause a fair bit of grief with those two weapons, but on F/Th hit points and armour he won't do it for long, so he'll have to pick a time and a place; nor, I expect, will he have quite the muscle of one or two of those others.

Having a quick look through the party, we have three fighters and a ranger who should be much better hand to hand artists, and taking experience tables and so on into account the druid and the burrahobbit won't be appreciably worse. Archery is where GG is going to shine, so I'll have to take a metric assload of arrow-points with me and spend a lot of time fletching. (That came out as "feltching", but I don't think we want to go there.)

[D_Odds]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Dwarves and Knights of Gondor and Rohan typically have the toughest armor. Rangers tend to Chain Mail and hope to get the well made Elven Chain that is strangely enough typically built by Dwarves instead. There is a long story behind this.

Well, maybe those Rangers of the North or them Elven Ranger types can get that fancy Westernesse or Elven chain, but us simple men of Dale have to make do with whatever hides we can get and treat. Besides, if I'm tracking a goblin camp, last thing I want is some metal clinking, giving away my position. Chainmail is nice when you know ahead of time you are going into a fight, but for everyday purposes, the scout will stick with his leathers. - Brin

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by D_Odds

Well, maybe those Rangers of the North or them Elven Ranger types can get that fancy Westernesse or Elven chain, but us simple men of Dale have to make do with whatever hides we can get and treat. Besides, if I'm tracking a goblin camp, last thing I want is some metal clinking, giving away my position. Chainmail is nice when you know ahead of time you are going into a fight, but for everyday purposes, the scout will stick with his leathers. - Brin

Can't afford the nice stuff from the Lonely Mountain these days? Dwarves don't teach your boys metalsmithing? Not that I've a word to say against leather, you understand - you're right about the noise. (But then, men and dwarves alike make so much noise you could shoot them in the dark. ) -- Gil-Gandel

[appleciders]

Based on my diligent but uncomprehending research, I like hawks.

[appleciders]

Also, it seems like there's some character choices to make by specializing, so when you're picking out my starting spells, I'd like to specialize in Evocation, forgoing Necromancy (I'm no goody two-shoes, but you have to draw the line somewhere) and Abjuration (Magic walls? I got into this for the flash-and-dazzle, not some boring barriers!)

[glee]

Originally Posted by appleciders

Also, it seems like there's some character choices to make by specializing, so when you're picking out my starting spells, I'd like to specialize in Evocation, forgoing Necromancy (I'm no goody two-shoes, but you have to draw the line somewhere) and Abjuration (Magic walls? I got into this for the flash-and-dazzle, not some boring barriers!)

There's no MU specialisation in 1st Edition (but I don't know the MERP rules that What Exit? is using).

[Malacandra]

Jim, not unnaturally Gil-Gandel plays the harp - usually a small one like you'll find here as a great harp is a bit of a pain to carry around, though he enjoys playing one when he gets the chance.

(Looks like Finnish impact on Quenya there - kantele, anyone?)

[MHaye]

Originally Posted by Malacandra

(Looks like Finnish impact on Quenya there - kantele, anyone?)

If I remember my reading of JRRT's biography correctly, the primary inspiration for Quenya was Finnish.

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by MHaye

If I remember my reading of JRRT's biography correctly, the primary inspiration for Quenya was Finnish.

I'm sure you do remember correctly - I was just amused to see the root word so recognisable. (Which wasn't going to be that easy, as I don't speak Finnish.)

glee is totally going to kick butt. I'll just have to avoid hand to hand like the plague, what with being functionally indistinguishable from a fighter/thief for many levels to come.

Bow wouldn't normally be a bard weapon, of course, but whoever heard of a Sindar using a sling?

[D_Odds]

Well, StarShine, as I said, when you know a fight is coming, the heavy stuff comes in right handy. But my job is usually getting there first, alone, and marking the spot. Goblins and orcs may have pointy ears just like you, but they don't hear near as well. But I'd rather not risk sounding like I've gotten a pocketful of coin heading to the tavern when I'm all alone following a score or more of the uglies. And them Wargs, they hear too damn well for my tastes. Good thing the orcs and goblins are so smelly, plus I know how to track downwind, because they know how to smell too damn well too.

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by D_Odds

Well, StarShine, as I said, when you know a fight is coming, the heavy stuff comes in right handy. But my job is usually getting there first, alone, and marking the spot. Goblins and orcs may have pointy ears just like you, but they don't hear near as well. But I'd rather not risk sounding like I've gotten a pocketful of coin heading to the tavern when I'm all alone following a score or more of the uglies. And them Wargs, they hear too damn well for my tastes. Good thing the orcs and goblins are so smelly, plus I know how to track downwind, because they know how to smell too damn well too.

StarHarp, if you please. We should compare notes some time, friend Brin - it sounds as if we have some experiences in common. Mind you, some of my training will be of no use to you, such as the etiquette that warns a man not to mention an Elf's physiognomy and an Orc's in the same breath.