Any suggestions for calming a snake-phobic father-in-law?

[DickP]

My wife's dad regularly calls her with dire predictions regarding our snake, a very personable and laid back Australian Jungle Carpet Python. He (my father-in-law) is a regular consumer of garbage television, and my pet theory is that every time the SciFi channel airs "Attack of the Toilet Pythons", he dials the phone.

This is no Burmese or Reticulated Python; Jungle Carpets are tree snakes that pose no danger whatsoever to adult humans, to my knowledge (we do not have children, so that's not an issue).

I've explained this to my father-in-law several times to no effect. I'd like to refer him to some outside sources (websites, books, youtube, whatever) so we can calm him down - any ideas?

Many thanks,

Dick

[River Hippie]

I've been a snake owner since 1978 and it's been my experience that there are some people that can be educated out of snake phobia and a few that it's so deeply rooted that no amount of reason will make any difference.

[Washoe]

I think it’s hopeless. The other day a baby lizard scampered into my class to get out of the sun. Grown women were shrieking and hopping up on top of their chairs to escape the little monster. He was two inches long, max. Some people are squicked out by reptiles and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. If the FIL is convinced that your little green and yellow friend from Down Under is going to kill both of you in your sleep, there’s not going to be any convincing him otherwise.

[dolphinboy]

My wife is so afraid of snakes that she will freak out if she sees a photo of a snake. While she rationally knows that a picture of a snake can't hurt her... it doesn't matter. She will run from the room screaming. There is no way to reason with someone like that. I kept snakes as a kid and have no fear of them. I have tried to gradually introduce the idea that not all snakes are dangerous, but she can't fathom it.

If I were you I would tell him that you don't have an irrational fear of snakes, or any other creature, and that perhaps he should consider working with a therapist. This fear can be cured, but only if the patient is willing to accept the fact that not all snakes are going to kill them.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by dolphinboy

My wife is so afraid of snakes that she will freak out if she sees a photo of a snake. While she rationally knows that a picture of a snake can't hurt her... it doesn't matter. She will run from the room screaming. There is no way to reason with someone like that. I kept snakes as a kid and have no fear of them. I have tried to gradually introduce the idea that not all snakes are dangerous, but she can't fathom it.

If I were you I would tell him that you don't have an irrational fear of snakes, or any other creature, and that perhaps he should consider working with a therapist. This fear can be cured, but only if the patient is willing to accept the fact that not all snakes are going to kill them.

I'm like your wife. (Can't even look at pictures) It has nothing to do with snakes being dangerous -- it's just that they're SNAKES. I don't care how gentle they are, I just don't want to be a around them. And no, I'm not going to try working with a therapist -- I generally don't encounter snakes on a daily basis, and it's not an inconvenience.

I know most snakes aren't going to hurt me. (Especially pictures, duh) But that doesn't stop such a fear. That's what a phobia is -- an irrational fear. Usually it involves gradual exposure over time, I believe. No thank you.


That doesn't mean I think the FIL is being reasonable. I don't want snakes irradicated, or abused, or anything. I just don't want to be around them. Tell him if he calls about the snake again, you'll hang up on him. If he mentions it, just tell him to shut up. Phobias aren't rational -- as said above, you can't rationalize him out of his phobia. You CAN, however, rationalize him out of his behavior about it.

(Strangely though, I like lizards. I think they're cute. Snakes? EEEEEE!!!!!!)

[Scumpup]

I'd just let your FIL be. While I don't have any fear of reptiles, irrational or otherwise, I also don't see the charm of keeping a reptile in one's home. Enjoy whatever it is that you enjoy about your snake and learn to deal with the fact that lots of people will be freaked by your choice of pets.

[Ulfreida]

If he doesn't think he is irrationally afraid of snakes, there is nothing you can do. In my limited experience even people who know they are phobic about something rarely want to do anything but avoid.

If you can get him to admit he has an irrational fear, he might be interested in:

http://web4health.info/en/answers/ph...reat-snake.htm

[Semjaazah]

Appeal to his rationality and admonish his reactions as childish. I would wager that a lot of men would be swayed by a combination of both, and would at least not want to seem cowardly, whether they actually come round to liking it or not.

[Yllaria]

Since he's already on record with "dire predictions", he's in a lose-lose situation as long as you keep the snake. Either his daughter is going to be injured, as he predicted, or he's going to be proved wrong. He has to keep harping because if he stops he's either showing he doesn't care for his daughter or he's admitting that he was wrong.

Is your wife upset by his fretting? Does she sometimes think that maybe he's right? Because if not, he's regularly providing both of you with a big dose of "I'm wrong but I'll never admit it." Which may be irritating, but also has its benefits. You can both practice nodding and saying that you know he's only saying that because he cares, while doing what you've decided to do dispite his warnings.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Refrigerator box, rope, duct tape, and a gross of garter snakes.

Wait--do the opposite of that instead.

[Jaguars!]

Garter box, duct, taped rope and a gross of refrigerators? how is that going to help?

[purplehorseshoe]

Never heard of the animal in question.

* Google image search *

Wow. They're gorgeous!!

[Chessic Sense]

Just do what I do- berate them incessantly for the childish and irrational behavior. Try to make them feel like less of a human being. Bring it up even when the conversation doesn't call for it.

People find it endearing.

[MLS]

Can I tell a snake story? Yes? Thanks.

I came in one day to the whole office in an uproar because the receptionist said she'd seen a snake. I finally found it, behind a file folder on the floor. It was sooooo cute and tiny. Maybe 2 or 3 inches long, and less girth than an earthworm. I scooped it up with a paper cup and set it free in the woods out our back door. Everyone, including our male owner & president was much relieved and thanked me for my bravery. Jeez.

[Anne Neville]

He probably didn't reason himself into this fear, so it's unlikely you will be able to reason him out of it.

His fear is affecting you because a lot of your conversations with him have to do with the snake, is that right? You could try telling him that you're sick of talking about snakes with him. Then, if he brings up snakes, tell him to knock it off or you will hang up/leave. Change the subject to something having nothing to do with snakes. Then hang up or leave if he mentions snakes again. People with phobias are generally capable of not talking about whatever it is that they're afraid of. Most of us can have conversations about other topics.

Oh, and make sure you do not introduce the topic of snakes into any conversation with him. You know where that's going to go, and you don't like it.

[Wheelz]

Take something he enjoys and compile the most alarming statistics you can find. Or make some up.

Him: "I just heard about a guy in Tasmania who was killed by his pet snake! You should get rid of that thing!"
You: "Gosh, Pop, thanks for the heads-up, we'll sure think about that. Hey, did you know 47 people were killed by falling tree limbs while playing bocce ball last year? I think you'd better give that up, it's way too dangerous!"

[Anaamika]

Why can't the wife just tell him to stop calling? He's not going to get over his fear; he's got a closed mind about it, but he can at least stop bugging you.

What's he think the snake is going to do anyway? Eat you or wife?


ETA: And we reptile-owners don't own our pets just to show how "different and unusual" we are. What a rude thing to say. We own them because we like them and they are less mess and less smelly and hairy than dogs and cats. And less responsibility. I own a leopard gecko myself.

[Scumpup]

Originally Posted by Anaamika

Why can't the wife just tell him to stop calling? He's not going to get over his fear; he's got a closed mind about it, but he can at least stop bugging you.

What's he think the snake is going to do anyway? Eat you or wife?


ETA: And we reptile-owners don't own our pets just to show how "different and unusual" we are. What a rude thing to say. We own them because we like them and they are less mess and less smelly and hairy than dogs and cats. And less responsibility. I own a leopard gecko myself.

A plastic lizard would be completely free of odor and mess and hair. I cared for an assortment of amphibians and reptiles as a work study job when I was an undergrad. While there is nothing of which to be afraid, though the venomous species warrant caution, there also seems to be little reason to bring one home. Some will reach the point where they will accept being handled. Most will not. None will ever be able to interact with their owner even on the level that a hamster or parakeet can. They are right there alongside tarantulas and hissing cockroaches as creatures of instinct. They are, at most, biologic decorating accessories. They are no more pets than are the residents of the ant farm I have in my classroom.

[Silver Tyger]

Originally Posted by Scumpup

A plastic lizard would be completely free of odor and mess and hair. I cared for an assortment of amphibians and reptiles as a work study job when I was an undergrad. While there is nothing of which to be afraid, though the venomous species warrant caution, there also seems to be little reason to bring one home. Some will reach the point where they will accept being handled. Most will not. None will ever be able to interact with their owner even on the level that a hamster or parakeet can. They are right there alongside tarantulas and hissing cockroaches as creatures of instinct. They are, at most, biologic decorating accessories. They are no more pets than are the residents of the ant farm I have in my classroom.

You may have a different definition of 'pet' than some of us. There's little reason for most pets. I don't have any currently, but I've taken care of a variety of critters. Snakes are fun and less trouble than, say, rodents. Maybe you won't get the sort of affection you will from other things, but to say you can't interact with them? Silly.

I wouldn't own one, but I know people who like tarantulas (and pet them). You can't even play with fish (or just barely). Are they not pets? If it's an animal and you have to feed and clean up after it, it's a pet.

[DickP]

Hey all:

I'm sorry, I should have clarified: I'm not trying to get the old gent to fall in love with reptiles or anything, I realize that's probably well out of the question.

Here's a typical phone exchange on the topic:

FIL - "So... How long is that snake of yours now? 6 feet? 8?"
Me - "Umm... Maybe 6?"
FIL - "6 feet!? Pythons are dangerous to humans once they reach 6 feet long!"
Me - "Where on earth did you hear that?"
FIL - "This news program! Those pythons kill people!"

Obviously he's never going to like snakes - I realize that. But he's convinced that this one is going to wrap itself around our throats and strangle us in our sleep. I've tried to explain that no constrictor "strangulates" about the throat as a general method of predation; they suffocate by coiling around the chest and restricting expansion of the lungs. Why would snakes evolve to waste their energy and risk injury strangulating animals they couldn't hope to consume? This snake wouldn't go after a house cat, let alone a human child, let alone an adult human.

He'll nod like he's listening, but next time I talk to him he's fretting about the snake twisting itself around our necks and choking us out.

I know he'll never be cozy with the thing, I'm not asking him to be. And I'm not mad about it or anything, I just feel bad that he's worrying needlessly. If there was a "Snakes and You" or something that I could give to him that would clarify that we are not in constant mortal danger I'd like to get to him.

Thanks!

[Condescending Robot]

If you're going to own a socially nonconformist pet just to show how different and unusual you are, you will sometimes have to deal with members of society reacting to the fact that you are doing something different and unusual.

[Silver Tyger]

Originally Posted by Condescending Robot

If you're going to own a socially nonconformist pet just to show how different and unusual you are, you will sometimes have to deal with members of society reacting to the fact that you are doing something different and unusual.

Dude, it's a snake, not freaking piranhas or something. They're pretty and fun to hold and feed.

[blondebear]

Ask your father if he'd like to see a nude photo of Nastassja Kinski, then spring the Richard Avedon portrait on him.

[John Bredin]

IMHO, it has little if anything to do with the snake (or snakes in general) and a whole lot to do with him being (1) a parent and (2) "regular consumer of garbage television."

While I own a car, I commute to and from work by train and I often stay late in the city, not so much for work as for spinning class and to socialize with my city-dwelling friends. My mother watches, listens to, and reads the news constantly and can tell you of every lurid violent crime in the metropolitan area. She has made it rather clear to me that she would prefer me to take a rush-hour train home and not ride after dark. Dark! In Chicago! In the winter! Because, as she tells me with her hands wringing, "things" happen on "the trains" -- no differentiation between Metra and the L, or between 10pm (packed train, can hardly get a seat!) and 3 am, or between an incident that occurred on the West or South Sides and the fact that I pass through the Northwest Side to go home. BTW, I'm quite nearly 40 years' old, not a naive kid.

In other words, if it wasn't the snake, good ol' father-in-law would find some other overhyped well-publicized danger to neurotically fixate focus upon.

[dracoi]

There's not much more I can offer than others have. The best testimonials you'll find on the web are just that. I've owned snakes my entire life; not only am I still alive, but I haven't lost any house guests either. But that's not going to satisfy him precisely because the fear is irrational. He's got to be willing to accept the possibility of being wrong before he will hear you.

But just to give you some talking points:

Some people are better off thinking of snakes in terms of pounds rather than feet. My 4.5-foot boa is around 5 lbs at his normal weight. Most people are surprised by this because they think of 4.5 feet as a small child, not a small cat. Your 6-footer is still going to be under 10 lbs, I'd guess. If you put it in the context of a cat or small dog it might help to show that the snake is no threat to you in a way that the foot measurement doesn't.

I also tell some people about the fact that my snake eats mice, but that even a medium-sized rat is big enough for him to treat it as a threat, not as food.

My snake has also made more converts to the world of snake-lovers than you could imagine, but mostly with kids. We used to lend him to a middle school science class and I heard plenty of stories about parents who wouldn't believe their kids could even be in the same room, let alone holding the snake. I think kids are more willing to change, but I also think the group setting may help. The less-scared kids provide an example of getting over the fear that the more-scared kids use to build up their courage. Maybe you could find an environment like a party or something to pull the snake out for a little socializing?

[anson2995]

Originally Posted by John Bredin

In other words, if it wasn't the snake, good ol' father-in-law would find some other overhyped well-publicized danger to neurotically fixate focus upon.

I agree that it's probably not about the snake, but I don't think it's about consuming hysteria either. He sounds like he's just a worrier who is protective of his daughter and the snake is a way he can express that.

[araminty]

I'm a zoo educator, I often encounter snake phobic people, usually while I have a rainbow boa, a ball python, or a CA mountain king snake in my hands.

OP, my advice is to continue in your same vein - lots of reassuring, safe, even boring exposures to the fact that your pet snake is harmless. Also reassure him that you handle the animal in a responsible manner - you never drape it over a shoulder or wrap it around your neck (right?), and you maintain awareness and control over his head position at all times. Restate, every time he brings snakes up, that pythons aren't venomous. Stress that, although your carpet python is six feet long, he's not as heavy or muscular as the really large species like reticulated or Burmese pythons, that he sees on those (ridiculous) shows.

Imagine you're biting into an apple. Snakes can't do that - their teeth and jaws aren't set up for it. They swallow their prey whole, in one big gulp. A snake is very aware of their limitations - for a 6' python, that's a rat. They will never even consider biting a chunk out of you, because they CAN'T. (This flowed out of me verbatim from my snake presentation, sorry if it sounds like I'm talking to eight year olds - I usually am!)

Scumpup, you're wrong. I work with snakes that obviously enjoy interacting with humans. Maybe it's not obvious to you - maybe you don't understand snake body language very well - but I've had snakes see me through their enclosure doors, come closer in "greeting", nose at the doors, and seem to relish being held, stroked and lightly scratched. Exotic pets aren't for everyone, that's why they're called exotic.

[Scumpup]

Do tell me how animals witha primitive brain, no vocal cords, no facial expression, or even moving eyelids, no mobile fur or feathers or what have you, express their joy to you?
I admit I got my biology degree over 25 years ago, but even back then anthropomorphization was recognized and we were cautioned against it. Not only do I not believe your reptiles are expressing feelings to you, I don't see any compelling evidence that they have anything analogous to human emotions.

[dracoi]

Originally Posted by Scumpup

Do tell me how animals witha primitive brain, no vocal cords, no facial expression, or even moving eyelids, no mobile fur or feathers or what have you, express their joy to you?
I admit I got my biology degree over 25 years ago, but even back then anthropomorphization was recognized and we were cautioned against it. Not only do I not believe your reptiles are expressing feelings to you, I don't see any compelling evidence that they have anything analogous to human emotions.

I would take a middle ground to both of you. Reptiles do have distinct personalities, and they do recognize individual people. I tend to resist the urge to ascribe too much thought or emotion, but there are recognizable signs. My snake does watch us walk around. In a room full of people, he will seek me out and then stick close by me.

These things are probably triggered by fairly primitive thoughts like "Moving things might threats or food, so I should watch out" and "I know this guy's scent and he's never hurt me" rather than "Awww I wuv you this much!" And since two snakes of the same litter (clutch?) will react differently from each other, you have to attribute this to some kind of memory and personality that makes them distinct individuals.

Also, they are not expressionless if you watch body language rather than, say, eyebrows. My snake has totally different postures for fear, hunting, casual exploration, sitting around getting warm, etc. If he's being held a stranger, I know exactly how he feels based on posture and movement. If he's out crawling on the grass, I know when he's "having fun" vs "being afraid." Again, these behaviors may be no more complex than a determination of food/not food and threat/not threat, but it's not "expressionless".

[araminty]

Originally Posted by dracoi

Also, they are not expressionless if you watch body language rather than, say, eyebrows. My snake has totally different postures for fear, hunting, casual exploration, sitting around getting warm, etc. If he's being held a stranger, I know exactly how he feels based on posture and movement. If he's out crawling on the grass, I know when he's "having fun" vs "being afraid." Again, these behaviors may be no more complex than a determination of food/not food and threat/not threat, but it's not "expressionless".

Agreed, thank you.

[araminty]

I never said they "express joy," I said they enjoy interaction with people. Even animals with "primitive" brains avoid aversive stimuli.

I think you'd agree that some snakes consider human contact aversive - these animals retreat from human touch or smell, may strike or bite, may thrash or whip their tails and otherwise move their body quickly to try and pull it from human grasp.

Why, then, is it such a stretch to think the opposite is true? That snakes which are desensitized to handling may lean in to increase the pressure of a scratch, may refrain from striking or pulling away, may actively seek out the positive stimuli they receive when being handled?

[Ulfreida]

Had to share this: darling little snake image

warning: not recommended for the phobic.

[Princhester]

Carpet snakes wouldn't eat an adult cat but there was one lving in the roof of a friend's house that disposed of a couple of their neighbors kittens.