Archie says his job gets "kind of butthole at times" in 1947 newspaper comic

[Revtim]

When it's not prime, of course.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...g=4081%2C91102

[jsc1953]

WTF???

I'll have to check my Dictionary of American Slang, to see if "butthole" ever meant anything other than, you know, anus.

[aceplace57]

He means the job is boring.

Originally Posted by Revtim

When it's not prime, of course.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...g=4081%2C91102

[Revtim]

I thought he meant it stinks. You know, like butthole.

[aceplace57]

every butthole needs boring.

[fiddlesticks]

Stuff like that makes it a crime Google is going to abandon that newspaper archive of theirs.

Check the editorial section in the following days to see if any blue-hairs wrote in to complain about Archie being a potty-mouth.

[RealityChuck]

"Butt" has many more meanings that its most common current one. The OED gives one usage of butt-hole as a dead end.

I would assume it was common 40s slang, since Bob Montana tended to keep up on it. I would expect that the bluenoses would not have thought of the connection we do.

[Larry Mudd]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

"Butt" has many more meanings that its most common current one. The OED gives one usage of butt-hole as a dead end.

I would assume it was common 40s slang, since Bob Montana tended to keep up on it. I would expect that the bluenoses would not have thought of the connection we do.

The usually fairly reliable Online Etymology Dictionary asserts that the familiar usage dates from the 1950s.

It does seem striking that "butt-hole" would pass without comment in the 1940s, after more than five hundred years of common usage of "butt" meaning "ass." I can't think of any synonyms for "bum" that "hole" might be appended to without sounding much too rude for publication. (Though I guess Horace Rumpole managed to squeak by... )

[Biffy the Elephant Shrew]

Originally Posted by Larry Mudd

(Though I guess Horace Rumpole managed to squeak by... )

If there's one thing I can't stand, it's a squeaky rumpole.

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

"Butt" has many more meanings that its most common current one.

This. A butt used to be a wine-keg and the butt hole was where you poured out the wine. Similarly, a bung was a cork and a bung hole used to be where you poured stuff out of a barrel. It was from these meanings that butt hole and bung hole became slang terms for an anus.

[The Tooth]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

This. A butt used to be a wine-keg and the butt hole was where you poured out the wine. Similarly, a bung was a cork and a bung hole used to be where you poured stuff out of a barrel. It was from these meanings that butt hole and bung hole became slang terms for an anus.

I remember Bill Nye doing a vacuum demonstration with an oil drum. He was clearly enjoying himself sort of not-explaining to the kiddies about the bung and where he was about to put it.

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

This. A butt used to be a wine-keg and the butt hole was where you poured out the wine. Similarly, a bung was a cork and a bung hole used to be where you poured stuff out of a barrel. It was from these meanings that butt hole and bung hole became slang terms for an anus.

Seems possible but unlikely, given that "butt" has meant "buttocks" almost exactly as long as it has meant "keg". According to the OED, the earliest attested uses for "bung" and both senses of "butt" date from 1440 to 1450.

[samclem]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

"Butt" has many more meanings that its most common current one. The OED gives one usage of butt-hole as a dead end.

I would assume it was common 40s slang, since Bob Montana tended to keep up on it. I would expect that the bluenoses would not have thought of the connection we do.

I'm not sure of that at this point.

This is one of the more intriguing finds.

Jon Lighter wrote the book on American Slang, and he has NO listing for "butthole" to mean anything that would pass a censor in 1947.

The current OED online has a single cite for "butt hole" to mean something innocent

butt-hole n. a blind hole, a cul-de-sac.1905 Westm. Gaz. 3 Mar. 3/2 The old dog's got him [sc. a badger] in a butt hole.

. I assume that's what you're referring to, Chuck?

I'll run this one by the linguist list and see what turns up.

[Sam A. Robrin]

The tradition continues:

http://www.newsfromme.com/2012/04/08/great-scott/

[Larry Mudd]

Originally Posted by samclem

The current OED online has a single cite for "butt hole" to mean something innocent .

Tangentially, this reminds me of the time my francophone wife asked me about the line 'our own private cul de sac' in that Pretenders song, which she did not recognize as french.

I assured her that "Mon cul et mon sac vous appartiennent." ("My ass and my bag are all yours." )

[Ellen Cherry]

I remember in middle school we were either issued or found laying around some old health textbooks from the 1950s, or perhaps earlier. This would have been the 1970s. They seemed really ancient to us. In it, we found several teenager social-situation scenarios. Much hilarity ensued when we beheld a drawing of a guy bombing out when asking a girl for a date. After she walked away in disgust, he yelped, "What a boner I pulled!"

We howled as only 14-year-olds can. I am, however, still slightly snickering at the memory.

[Kimstu]

Originally Posted by Larry Mudd

Tangentially, this reminds me of the time my francophone wife asked me about the line 'our own private cul de sac' in that Pretenders song, which she did not recognize as french.

I assured her that "Mon cul et mon sac vous appartiennent." ("My ass and my bag are all yours." )

Wow, you call your wife "vous" instead of "tu" even when making obscene innuendos to her? Now there's good old-fashioned chivalry for you.

[bup]

The crossword puzzle sucks. 11x13? No theme? Majorly butthole.

[Baffle]

On the next page in that link are some really fascinating classified ads. Some things change, like the jobs specifying coloured people, and some things don't, like the jobs asking for salespeople to work on commission. "Prefer man accustomed to making $7500 per year or more. Liberal commission. Established territory."

[Mr. Miskatonic]

Oh, that Jiggs....

[Larry Mudd]

Originally Posted by Kimstu

Wow, you call your wife "vous" instead of "tu" even when making obscene innuendos to her? Now there's good old-fashioned chivalry for you.

But of course! Most of my French is learned from old disco tracks; that's the convention.

[Anonymous Coward]

I had no idea they had archives of old papers on Google. There go my lunch hours.

From the New York Age Sept 6 1890

Anti-Courting Device
http://i.imgur.com/z8X55.jpg

[fiddlesticks]

The following day Archie gets a 30 minute break from his usher job and sets out for a quickie at the chok'lit shop, whereby he is given a prime ribbing from Reggie and the gang for his military-like uniform.

Here's my favorite headline I've found looking for other papers that carried Archie around the same time:
The Deseret News: April 2, 1947: Easter Party Set For Shut-ins at Jewish Center

How very nice!

[Polycarp]

Originally Posted by fiddlesticks

Here's my favorite headline I've found looking for other papers that carried Archie around the same time:
The Deseret News: April 2, 1947: Easter Party Set For Shut-ins at Jewish Center

How very nice!

You have to consider where it's from: Salt Lake City is the one place in the world where a Jew can be a Gentile!

[Kimballkid]

I wonder if the interest rates on the 5, 10, 20 and 50 dollar loans in the money to lend section of the ads were as bad as the payday loan places of today.

[RealityChuck]

will shakespere and i were on an airplane and he saw the sign on the restroom door that says 'occupied.' we shared a lot of knowing laughs over that one, but bill always like course jocosity.

[CalMeacham]

Using the Google N-Gram viewer, I find that "butthole" has been used pretty much in its present sense from about 1960 on, but before that there was a blip in the early 1900s in which it does, indeed, mean cul-de-sac.

"The Living Age" from 1912 (Vol. 275)

A "Butthole Mining Company" is listed in Nevada in 1904

http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph...=0&smoothing=3

The English Place-Name Society lists a "Butthole Field" from 1800

[Bumbershoot]

Originally Posted by CalMeacham

Using the Google N-Gram viewer, I find that "butthole" has been used pretty much in its present sense from about 1960 on, but before that there was a blip in the early 1900s in which it does, indeed, mean cul-de-sac.

"The Living Age" from 1912 (Vol. 275)

A "Butthole Mining Company" is listed in Nevada in 1904

http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph...=0&smoothing=3

The English Place-Name Society lists a "Butthole Field" from 1800

"What do you do for a living?"

"I work at Butthole Mining."

"...You get paid for that?"

[drastic_quench]

Originally Posted by Bumbershoot

"What do you do for a living?"

"I work at Butthole Mining."

"...You get paid for that?"

Wrecked 'em!?

[Exapno Mapcase]

The Bunghole theory of child-rearing

at about the age of thirteen, a child should be placed inside a large wine barrel with a bunghole on the side. The lid should then be nailed onto the barrel and the child fed through the bunghole until s/he reaches the age of eighteen. Then the bung should be pounded in.

I'm quoting this page just because it's more convenient than typing it out. This has been around since I've been a kid.

[Bumbershoot]

Originally Posted by CalMeacham

Using the Google N-Gram viewer, I find that "butthole" has been used pretty much in its present sense from about 1960 on, but before that there was a blip in the early 1900s in which it does, indeed, mean cul-de-sac.

"The Living Age" from 1912 (Vol. 275)

A "Butthole Mining Company" is listed in Nevada in 1904

http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph...=0&smoothing=3

The English Place-Name Society lists a "Butthole Field" from 1800

[I came up with a better one and it was too late to edit]

"What do you do for a living?"

"I work at Butthole Mining."

"So...you're a proctologist?"

[Intergalactic Gladiator]

Originally Posted by Bumbershoot

[I came up with a better one and it was too late to edit]

"What do you do for a living?"

"I work at Butthole Mining."

"So...you're a proctologist?"

"Find many nuggets?"

[samclem]

Preliminary report back from the American Dialect Mailing List.

1. Suggestion that it might have been altered in the newspaper on Google. Checked against another newspaper same strip and it's a match.

2. The cul-de-sac theory. But not much to suggest it was teen slang in the 1940s.

3. A suggestion from Jon Lighter that you shouldn't rule out just yet a person/persons changing it before it went to press. Montana would not likely have used that term in that situation as it was NOT teen slang. "Prime" was teen slang. Prof. Lighter never found an incidence of it being used in that time frame.

Stay tuned.

[vivalostwages]

Originally Posted by Bumbershoot

[I came up with a better one and it was too late to edit]

"What do you do for a living?"

"I work at Butthole Mining."

"So...you're a proctologist?"

"Or a gastroenterologist?"

[Rodgers01]

Originally Posted by fiddlesticks

The following day Archie gets a 30 minute break from his usher job and sets out for a quickie at the chok'lit shop, whereby he is given a prime ribbing from Reggie and the gang for his military-like uniform.

I like that in 1947 they had the Marine Corps Hymn in jukeboxes!

[Kimstu]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

will shakespere and i were on an airplane and he saw the sign on the restroom door that says 'occupied.' we shared a lot of knowing laughs over that one, but bill always like course jocosity.

coarse jocosity
catches the crowd
ellipsis

hi there archy how you doing
question mark

[LegendHasit]

butthole
buttonhole

oops, wrong thread

[Larry Mudd]

I don't know.about the rest of you, but for my own part (now that I know we have a perfectly good English alternative with an established usage,) I don't expect to ever use the term 'cul de sac' again. Unless I am speaking French, I guess, and can hope to make a crude anatomical pun out of it.

Huh-huh. "My own part." I slay me.

[Jenaroph]

I'm thinking preventing diaper rash plus a feminist push towards "daddy can change diapers too ya know" but...yeah, that would NEVER get off the drawing board today.

[Kimstu]

Originally Posted by Jenaroph

I'm thinking preventing diaper rash plus a feminist push towards "daddy can change diapers too ya know" but...yeah, that would NEVER get off the drawing board today.

Plus an attempt to make baby care look like MANLY work by throwing in the auto mechanics' slang verb "lube" for "apply greasy substance to".

Back in the day when the average ad viewer automatically associated the word "lube" with car engines rather than sexual penetration, that might well have been seen as a clever slogan.

[jbaker]

The American Dialect Society discussion has pretty much wrapped up, I think.

1. "Butthole" was not offensive in 1947. The modern use of "butthole" to mean "anus" had not yet come into existence (though it was around the corner) and people did not yet make the connection. Apparently people just thought it was an unknown but innocuous term and moved on. If people had thought it were an offensive use, the strip would certainly have been pulled; a strip like this would have been reviewed by literally dozens or even hundreds of editors.

2. Nobody knows what the cartoonist meant, other than that it was something in contrast to "prime." This was not just a nonce use, but the only known example of predicative use of "butthole." A number of suggestions were aired, but none were thought to be particularly convincing or supported by much evidence.

[Evil Captor]

They did all sorts of stuff along these lines back in the day. Here's a 1944 cover from a Marvel Comics publication: Gay Comics.

Link spoilered because other images around the cover are NSFW in an R-rated sort of way:

SPOILER:

Gay comics cover.

[Larry Mudd]

"Gay," "Swish," and "Blow?" That's an accidental innuendo trifecta!

[jsc1953]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

They did all sorts of stuff along these lines back in the day. Here's a 1944 cover from a Marvel Comics publication: Gay Comics.

If you like bizarre comic book covers with snarky commentary, you could spend all day here. I know I have.

[TBG]

Wow, Lady Plushbottom got SERVED

[Patch]

Kinda hard to ignore Batman's Boner.

[The Shroud]

Is it possible the Newspaper Google scanned was altered by somebody (a la drawing mustaches on photos)? Or does it show up in other sources?

[jbaker]

Originally Posted by The Shroud

Is it possible the Newspaper Google scanned was altered by somebody (a la drawing mustaches on photos)? Or does it show up in other sources?

There are at least two different newspapers that ran the strip with "butthole." This makes it unlikely that the usage was either vandalism to the scanned copy or vandalism at a specific newspaper when the strip was first run.

[Tammi Terrell]

But, as Ben Zimmer notes in his 28 April post to ADS-L, one of the (now four) newspapers known to have run that particular strip published a version in which "butthole" appears as illegible or partially so. Ben found this case in newspaperarchive.com's reproduction of page 11 of The Zanesville (Ohio) Times Recorder. The entire page is now viewable at the URL below. Interestingly, it's just that one word that's particularly difficult to read; even the teeniest print on the page is easier to make out.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...cky/Archie.jpg

So, perhaps -- as Ben suggests -- someone at the Zanesville paper was familiar with an offensive meaning for "butthole" and decided to have the word obscured before that day's issue went to press.

Further, as Ben points out in another posting, Green's Dictionary of Slang records a 1942 usage of "butt-hole" to signify, well, "anus," so at least the hyphenated form was known to some segment of America as a synonym for "asshole" when "butthole" appeared in Montana's strip.

[Tammi Terrell]

Actually, the PDF version of that page from the Zanesville paper has much better resolution. For the next couple of weeks the PDF can be viewed at

http://tinyurl.com/brk35f5