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#1
05-01-2012, 05:30 PM
 Sheriru Guest Join Date: Apr 2012

What is your humble opinions on this...

What if every human being who committed an inhuman act, and given second chances failed to be taken, was put into a rocket and shot into the sun?

My opinion is that first it would aid in controlling population. Two is that it would leave a more thoughtful, intelligent minority to spawn into a more informed and respectful society. Three is that we'll conserve resources that the people used--and a smarter human mind will find solutions to our depleting resources on this earth.

Give clear explanations and reasonable examples. I'll love reading diverse opinions ^_^

Last edited by Sheriru; 05-01-2012 at 05:33 PM.
#2
05-01-2012, 05:33 PM
 kaylasdad99 Charter Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 18,219
Then may I suggest that you put a question like this in IMHO?
#3
05-01-2012, 05:42 PM
 Derleth Guest Join Date: Apr 2000
Well, one GQ answer is that shooting something into the Sun is a lot more energy-intensive than, say, shooting them to Mars or Jupiter.

The reason is that to shoot someone into the Sun, you have to counteract all the inertia that's keeping them orbiting the Sun when you start out. Given that they're moving around the Sun at a pretty fair clip, this requires a lot of fuel, and that's just to get them to stop orbiting; to actually move them towards the Sun faster than they'll naturally fall requires even more fuel.

On the other hand, getting someone to Mars requires imparting to them enough extra velocity to move them to an orbit near Mars, which works with their current inertia, not against it. Their current velocity relative to the Sun is actually something in your favor in this case. Now, just giving them the bare minimum to move their orbit out to eventually impact on Mars is going to be really, really slow, but it'll take less fuel than the bare minimum needed to get them to impact the Sun.
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#4
05-01-2012, 05:49 PM
 I_Know_Nothing Charter Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chicagoland(West Burbs) Posts: 739
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Derleth Well, one GQ answer is that shooting something into the Sun is a lot more energy-intensive than, say, shooting them to Mars or Jupiter.
Or just shooting them.
#5
05-01-2012, 05:36 PM
 Sheriru Guest Join Date: Apr 2012
Oh! Sorry, I'll post it there, thank you
#6
05-01-2012, 05:41 PM
 Colibri SD Curator of Critters Moderator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Panama Posts: 21,474
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru Oh! Sorry, I'll post it there, thank you
You don't need to, I've moved this one.
#7
05-01-2012, 05:37 PM
 Smeghead Guest Join Date: Apr 2000
Well, there are a few obvious flaws:

1 - Who gets to determine what an "inhuman act" is?
2 - Who determines guilt?
3 - Being shot into the sun sort of limits the appeals process. No system of justice is perfect. How many innocent people are you willing to shoot into the sun in the name of progress?
4 - Why the sun? That seems like a very wasteful use of resources. There are lots of easier and cheaper ways to kill people than to build each one a one-shot rocket capable of reaching the sun. Especially if you're thinking of doing this enough to impact overall human population levels.
5 - You make the unspoken assumption that "committing an inhuman act" correlates to "low intelligence". I don't think that assumption is supported by historical data.
#8
05-01-2012, 05:51 PM
 Sheriru Guest Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Smeghead Well, there are a few obvious flaws: 1 - Who gets to determine what an "inhuman act" is? 2 - Who determines guilt? 3 - Being shot into the sun sort of limits the appeals process. No system of justice is perfect. How many innocent people are you willing to shoot into the sun in the name of progress? 4 - Why the sun? That seems like a very wasteful use of resources. There are lots of easier and cheaper ways to kill people than to build each one a one-shot rocket capable of reaching the sun. Especially if you're thinking of doing this enough to impact overall human population levels. 5 - You make the unspoken assumption that "committing an inhuman act" correlates to "low intelligence". I don't think that assumption is supported by historical data.
An inhuman act is something that we as humans know is wrong, such as torturing a helpless animal/human, killing innocent people with no reason, or raping. Things only a truly messed up person could do.

Well, the whole reason I posted this was to get factual answers. I really can't explain anything behind this. It was just a random idea, I haven't done research on it.
:P
#9
05-01-2012, 05:56 PM
 Trinopus Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 4,759
Terrible waste of good rockets.
#10
05-01-2012, 05:59 PM
 Sheriru Guest Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Trinopus Terrible waste of good rockets.
Yeah, but it would create filth to have piles of human bodies... burning them would cause pollution... maybe we could throw them into a volcano?
#11
05-01-2012, 09:45 PM
 Trinopus Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 4,759
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru Yeah, but it would create filth to have piles of human bodies... burning them would cause pollution... maybe we could throw them into a volcano?
But it's really good filth! Fertilizer! Line 'em up out in the broccoli fields and shoot 'em.*

All while singing "The Circle of Life."

#12
05-01-2012, 06:00 PM
 dracoi Guest Join Date: Dec 2008
Is there a single example in all of human history of a law/punishment preventing a behavior entirely?

If hanging every horse thief and murderer in the Old West wasn't enough to prevent horse-thieving and murdering, why do you think that shooting them into the sun would be any different?

What is described in the OP sounds like a recipe for totalitarian leaders, sneaky criminals and frightened innocents.
#13
05-01-2012, 09:45 PM
 Smeghead Guest Join Date: Apr 2000
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru An inhuman act is something that we as humans know is wrong,
Again, what part of "we as humans" gets to do the deciding? We're not all going to agree. If no one else, the guy strapped to the rocket is going to object.

How about the other objections I raised? No ideas there?
#14
05-01-2012, 10:30 PM
 kaylasdad99 Charter Member Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 18,219
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru An inhuman act is something that we as humans know is wrong
We as humans know that capital punishment is wrong. Always and everywhere (even on the sun).

So NOW you got a damn PARADOX on yer hands. Nice goin'...NOT!
#15
05-01-2012, 05:40 PM
 Colibri SD Curator of Critters Moderator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Panama Posts: 21,474
Moving to IMHO.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator
#16
05-01-2012, 05:47 PM
 Qadgop the Mercotan Charter Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Slithering on the hull Posts: 21,148
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru What is your opinion on this. What if every human being who committed an inhuman act, and given second chances failed to be taken, was put into a rocket and shot into the sun?
It's very, very difficult to send a rocket into the sun.

That's counter-intuitive, I know. One would think the gravity of the sun would draw it right in.

But most objects shot towards the sun just end up in orbit around the sun. To actually have the rocket's payload truly "shot into the sun" takes far, far more fuel than just orbiting the sun does.

So that makes your proposition more difficult.
#17
05-01-2012, 06:05 PM
 Robot Arm Guest Join Date: Jun 2000
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan It's very, very difficult to send a rocket into the sun. That's counter-intuitive, I know. One would think the gravity of the sun would draw it right in. But most objects shot towards the sun just end up in orbit around the sun. To actually have the rocket's payload truly "shot into the sun" takes far, far more fuel than just orbiting the sun does. So that makes your proposition more difficult.
A direct trajectory into the sun requires a lot of energy, but I've read of cases where unmanned probes took a very circuitous route to their destination. The Galileo probe flew by Venus and Earth, twice, on its way to Jupiter. Could we use a close flyby of another planet to redirect our inhuman scum onto a path that would intersect the sun?
#18
05-02-2012, 08:38 AM
 CarnalK Guest Join Date: Jul 2000
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Robot Arm A direct trajectory into the sun requires a lot of energy, but I've read of cases where unmanned probes took a very circuitous route to their destination. The Galileo probe flew by Venus and Earth, twice, on its way to Jupiter. Could we use a close flyby of another planet to redirect our inhuman scum onto a path that would intersect the sun?
Yeah, you'd think a degrading orbit would be easy to set up. Am I wrong?
#19
05-02-2012, 09:41 AM
 chrisk Charter Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Southern ontario Posts: 5,657
Quote:
 Originally Posted by CarnalK Yeah, you'd think a degrading orbit would be easy to set up. Am I wrong?
Yes. Degrading orbits only happen when there's a thick enough atmosphere to slow down whatever's orbiting.

There's an awful lot of pretty good vacuum between us and the Sun. Orbits might eventually degrade, but I'd estimate that we're talking well into the hundreds of millions of years for anything to degrade right into the sun. After all, the Earth's orbit around the sun is not degrading much, and a good thing too!

It might be easier just to shoot them off into orbit and say that the sun will catch up to them when it reached red-giant stage.
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Last edited by chrisk; 05-02-2012 at 09:42 AM. Reason: there's a d in 'and'
#20
05-02-2012, 10:09 AM
 CarnalK Guest Join Date: Jul 2000
Quote:
 Originally Posted by chrisk Yes. Degrading orbits only happen when there's a thick enough atmosphere to slow down whatever's orbiting. There's an awful lot of pretty good vacuum between us and the Sun. Orbits might eventually degrade, but I'd estimate that we're talking well into the hundreds of millions of years for anything to degrade right into the sun. After all, the Earth's orbit around the sun is not degrading much, and a good thing too! It might be easier just to shoot them off into orbit and say that the sun will catch up to them when it reached red-giant stage.
So setting up a satellite to orbit the Sun would be relatively easy compared to orbiting the Earth?
#21
05-02-2012, 10:25 PM
 Apollyon Guest Join Date: Feb 2000
Quote:
 Originally Posted by chrisk ...I'd estimate that we're talking well into the hundreds of millions of years for anything to degrade right into the sun.
So... we have to put the rocket’s villainous cargo into cryogenic suspension so that they survive the millions of years required for the orbit to degrade… and build a rocket that will last millions of years and not melt until it actually reaches the sun?

Well… I can’t say I care much for the OP’s proposition but those technologies could be worthwhile.

May I propose that we put off the “shooting them into the sun” phase until we have the foundation technologies in place?
#22
05-01-2012, 05:56 PM
 Sheriru Guest Join Date: Apr 2012
No, committing crimes against anyone or anything shows your insanity and heartlessness. You can't justify why a person tortures another without reason. The only reason would be that they're cruel and don't deserve to live to destroy other peoples' lives.
#23
05-03-2012, 01:50 PM
 mlees Guest Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru No, committing crimes against anyone or anything shows your insanity and heartlessness.
Heh. Have you heard about PETA?

Using animals for food, and murdering them for their hides is Eeee-ville and cruel.

All you need is for someone who agrees with that philosophy to get appointed to be the "Rocket to the Sun Czar".
#24
05-01-2012, 05:59 PM
 DianaG Guest Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru Three is that we'll conserve resources that the people used--and a smarter human mind will find solutions to our depleting resources on this earth.
By building rockets to send to the sun? Really? Are you unfamiliar with every other method of killing people? Because every single one of them is far less resource-intensive than building rockets to send to the sun.
#25
05-01-2012, 05:59 PM
 TriPolar Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: rhode island Posts: 19,758
Isn't shooting people into the sun an inhuman act? If not, what is?
#26
05-01-2012, 06:02 PM
 Sheriru Guest Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
 Originally Posted by TriPolar Isn't shooting people into the sun an inhuman act? If not, what is?
How are we supposed to stop this world from becoming cruel? Anyone have ideas?
#27
05-01-2012, 07:04 PM
 The Hamster King Charter Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 8,749
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru How are we supposed to stop this world from becoming cruel? Anyone have ideas?
The social contract is enforced through the voluntary consent of the bulk of the citizenry, not by draconian punishments.
#28
05-01-2012, 07:04 PM
 Oakminster Guest Join Date: Jun 2006
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Derleth Well, one GQ answer is that shooting something into the Sun is a lot more energy-intensive than, say, shooting them to Mars or Jupiter.
And several orders of magnitude more energy-intensive and expensive that just shooing them in the head.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru How are we supposed to stop this world from becoming cruel? Anyone have ideas?
We aren't. The world was a cruel place from the time life began, and it will be a cruel place long after you're dead. Survival of the fittest.
#29
05-01-2012, 07:20 PM
 Robot Arm Guest Join Date: Jun 2000
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Oakminster We aren't. The world was a cruel place from the time life began, and it will be a cruel place long after you're dead. Survival of the fittest.
Nasty, brutish, and short.

SPOILER:
Those are my attorneys.
#30
05-01-2012, 07:38 PM
 Little Nemo Charter Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Western New York Posts: 47,886
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru How are we supposed to stop this world from becoming cruel? Anyone have ideas?
I have to feel that if your plan to making the world a better place involves genocide that maybe it needs rethinking.
#31
05-02-2012, 07:26 AM
 Mangetout Charter Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Kingdom of Butter Posts: 47,510
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Little Nemo I have to feel that if your plan to making the world a better place involves genocide that maybe it needs rethinking.
Nitpick: mass execution, probably not genocide, but your point still stands.
#32
05-01-2012, 06:05 PM
 Munch Guest Join Date: Mar 2000
So, failing the ability for civilization to actually, physically shoot them into the sun, you're completely out of ideas? We take that out of the equation and your whole proposal just falls apart like a house of cards?

Last edited by Munch; 05-01-2012 at 06:05 PM.
#33
05-01-2012, 07:20 PM
 jtgain Guest Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Munch So, failing the ability for civilization to actually, physically shoot them into the sun, you're completely out of ideas? We take that out of the equation and your whole proposal just falls apart like a house of cards?
Why can't I have my sharks with friggin' lasers on their heads?
#34
05-01-2012, 07:24 PM
 Qadgop the Mercotan Charter Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Slithering on the hull Posts: 21,148
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jtgain Why can't I have my sharks with friggin' lasers on their heads?
That'd be cool if the lasers were targeting lasers.
#35
05-01-2012, 06:07 PM
 YogSosoth Guest Join Date: Nov 2008
I would say we'll soon run out of rockets
#36
05-03-2012, 05:23 AM
 Colophon Guest Join Date: Sep 2002
Quote:
 Originally Posted by YogSosoth I would say we'll soon run out of rockets
Here's an idea: we build more rockets! Nasty people shipped to a fiery solar death and lower unemployment in one fell swoop. The OP's a genius, I tells ya!
#37
05-01-2012, 06:40 PM
 Siam Sam Elephant Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bangkok Posts: 20,705
My own preferred method -- assuming they resume nuclear testing -- is to strap them to the device out in the desert or Pyongyang or wherever they're setting it off.
#38
05-01-2012, 07:26 PM
 The Man With The Golden Gun BANNED Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,136
Uhhh...it would encourage scientists to develop faster, more powerful, and more efficient rockets?

Because that's about the only upside to this plan I can think of.
#39
05-01-2012, 07:32 PM
 Qadgop the Mercotan Charter Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Slithering on the hull Posts: 21,148
Who would be in charge of loading these people into their death rocket? What kind of person will it turn them into, being an executioner like that?
#40
05-01-2012, 08:02 PM
 EmAnJ Guest Join Date: Jan 2007
What if these acts of inhumanity (according to the OP) were justified? For instance, you speak of harming/abusing animals. Does that mean you don't eat meat? You don't use products tested on animals? What about human torture - does that include torture in the course of war? It's commonly used, so should all of those people be shot in to the sun as well?

Your idea is very flawed, in multiple way. Good try though.
#41
05-01-2012, 10:42 PM
 DianaG Guest Join Date: Dec 2005
I think we're supposed to be rationing our answers. How many does that allow us?
#42
05-02-2012, 06:44 AM
 Sheriru Guest Join Date: Apr 2012
I would just like scientific answers. I figured this little randomized proposition would have multiple flaws. I'm glad that you all are helping me discover these.

Be aware that I would not actually shoot people at the sun... :P it's common sense that doing such a thing would create chaos everywhere... I merely wanted clear and justified conclusions. Good thinking, people!
#43
05-02-2012, 08:12 AM
 Smeghead Guest Join Date: Apr 2000
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru I would just like scientific answers.
To what question?
#44
05-02-2012, 09:53 AM
 kayaker Guest Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru I would just like scientific answers.
Why not just relocate them to New Jersey? Much closer, yet similarly inhospitable.
#45
05-02-2012, 07:01 AM
 Scumpup Guest Join Date: Mar 2003
Work with me here...What if, instead of rocketing them into the sun, we built specialized facilities where such people might be confined, under guard, until such time as our legal system determines they may be released? Think of it as a form of penitance.
#46
05-03-2012, 11:13 AM
 tdn Guest Join Date: Feb 2000
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Scumpup Work with me here...What if, instead of rocketing them into the sun, we built specialized facilities where such people might be confined, under guard, until such time as our legal system determines they may be released? Think of it as a form of penitance.
Wouldn't it be better to eventually kill them after some time in those facilities? Or would that be controversial?

I love it when we see new ideas like this.
#47
05-02-2012, 07:46 AM
 Omar Little Guest Join Date: Apr 2000
Seems like the death sentence for anything the OP considers an "inhuman" act is a bit severe for my sense of justice. I'll pass on electing the OP as supreme leader. Next.
#48
05-02-2012, 09:44 AM
 mlees Guest Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sheriru What is your humble opinions on this... What if every human being who committed an inhuman act, and given second chances failed to be taken, was put into a rocket and shot into the sun? My opinion is that first it would aid in controlling population.
Do you believe that the majority of humans are "inhumane" and deserving of the death penalty? If not, it seems to me that the population levels would still rise. (Unless you also outlaw unapproved/unlicensed procreation.)

Quote:
 Two is that it would leave a more thoughtful, intelligent minority to spawn into a more informed and respectful society.
What? I don't see how you could make that conclusion.

If all of the convicts that were executed were right handed, do you believe that the human race would suddenly develope more left handed, or ambidexterous traits?

Quote:
 Three is that we'll conserve resources that the people used--and a smarter human mind will find solutions to our depleting resources on this earth.
Note: Three seems to be a variant of Two.

More people were killed/are being killed by other humans (in raw numbers) in the last century than at any other period in recorded history. Does the average IQ of humans really seem to be getting higher, over all, because of this? (I vote "no, we're just getting more efficient at killing each other.")

Kill all the undesirables, eh? People who tinker with that idea never seem to consider themselves as part of that unlucky subset.

Last edited by mlees; 05-02-2012 at 09:46 AM.
#49
05-04-2012, 04:24 PM
 Sheriru Guest Join Date: Apr 2012
Everyone, I know we all have different opinions in this case. And let me please tell you that I'm not as educated as all of you. Someday I will, yes, but I've got many years ahead of me.

I didnt exactly mean to say "evil people die, smart people live". If the cruel people are removed, wouldn't this world be better? Shooting to the sun is out of the question...

And I know for a fact I'm not heartless or cruel. I'm actually a person whose life is being ruined by disrespectful people... it's hard to want to live with them around.

All I want is to live without being thrashed by today's gruesome society of drug-addicts, rapists, and murderers...

please try not to get angry, also
#50
05-04-2012, 04:51 PM
 Sheriru Guest Join Date: Apr 2012
Everyone, I know we all have different opinions in this case. And let me please tell you that I'm not as educated as all of you. Someday I will, yes, but I've got many years ahead of me.

I didnt exactly mean to say "evil people die, smart people live". If the cruel people are removed, wouldn't this world be better? Shooting to the sun is out of the question...

And I know for a fact I'm not heartless or cruel. I'm actually a person whose life is being ruined by disrespectful people... it's hard to want to live with them around.

All I want is to live without being thrashed by today's gruesome society of drug-addicts, rapists, and murderers...

please try not to get angry, also

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