2012 NFL Offseason - OTAs and Training Camp

[Omniscient]

The NFL Draft is over, the first 2 or 3 rounds of Free Agency are over, Undrafted Rookies have been signed, a few big trades have been consummated, NFL owners meetings are concluded, OTAs are just around the corner, yup it's time for a new Offseason thread.

If you have an opinion on the state of your team that you'd like to share, this is the place. If you want to ask questions about some of the big FA signing or draft day pickups, we are looking forward to spouting off our thoughts.

Here's the links to the recent 2012 NFL Draft thread and the 2012 NFL Pre-Draft thread. For you gluttons that might have missed it, here's the SDMB Mock Draft thread too.

I don't suppose there's much more intro necessary, everyone knows the drill. The big news of the day is Terrell Suggs blowing out his Achillies tendon either playing basketball or training for his OTA conditioning test. He's talking tough about being back in 4 months for the start of the NFL season but pretty much everyone with any sense is saying his season is over before it started. Big news for the Ravens, he's probably their best player though I personally flavor Ngata and think Suggs is more bark than bite. For a defense getting really, really old this could be a major issue. It will be curious to see if this opens the door for Sergio Kindle to finally get back into the mix after that fractured skull injury.

Oh yeah, and Tebow.

[SenorBeef]

All ginger AFC Championship game.

Calling it now.

[furt]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

Oh yeah, and Tebow.

Who?

[Oakminster]

Things are not looking good for my Saints. Besides the Bounty-gate issues, they have a contract dispute with Brees. He's not happy about the franchise tag, has not signed his tender, and is not participating in team activities. To a certain extent, I can't blame him. He deserves to get paid. I'm afraid the team is going to take a step backwards this year, and may miss the playoffs.

[garygnu]

Bucs win the NFC South.

I think Andy Dalton should dye black stripes in his hair.

[Hamlet]

This is the worst time of year for us football fans. The draft is done, the free agents left are middle of the road at best, and OTA's don't really tell you anything. Now comes the painful, tedious, and incredibly boring 3 1/2 months of next to nothing really happening.

Luckily, I have a wife and kids who love me, a golf game to work on, and a huge trip to Europe to enjoy this summer. The NFL shaped hole in my life will easily be filled. But I still want to find out if Price, Worthy, Miller, and Manning are the answers to an anemic pass rush and whether Morgan Burnett or Charles Woodson can replace the great Nick Collins, and if Aaron Rodgers has a chip on his shoulder after last year's painful loss to the Giants. Unfortunately, those answers, and NFL games, are months away.

[garygnu]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

This is the worst time of year for us football fans. The draft is done, the free agents left are middle of the road at best, and OTA's don't really tell you anything. Now comes the painful, tedious, and incredibly boring 3 1/2 months of next to nothing really happening.
...

And soon the NBA and NHL playoffs will be over, leaving no sports being played at all.

[Great Antibob]

Originally Posted by garygnu

And soon the NBA and NHL playoffs will be over, leaving no sports being played at all.

Well, there's always baseball, I guess.

I'm just kidding. I'm going to take a 3 month nap until the preseason starts.

[kidchameleon]

Originally Posted by garygnu

And soon the NBA and NHL playoffs will be over, leaving no sports being played at all.

What about Arena Football?

[garygnu]

Originally Posted by kidchameleon

What about Arena Football?

Despite having a very good team right here in town, I just can't get into that.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

This is the worst time of year for us football fans. The draft is done, the free agents left are middle of the road at best, and OTA's don't really tell you anything. Now comes the painful, tedious, and incredibly boring 3 1/2 months of next to nothing really happening.

Luckily, I have a wife and kids who love me, a golf game to work on, and a huge trip to Europe to enjoy this summer. The NFL shaped hole in my life will easily be filled. But I still want to find out if Price, Worthy, Miller, and Manning are the answers to an anemic pass rush and whether Morgan Burnett or Charles Woodson can replace the great Nick Collins, and if Aaron Rodgers has a chip on his shoulder after last year's painful loss to the Giants. Unfortunately, those answers, and NFL games, are months away.

Where you going?

And, you mean Perry right?

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

Where you going?

My familia y yo vamos a ir a Espana. And Italy, Germany, Austria, France, and Ireland. We're very excited. I'm just upset that they cancelled NFL Europe, so I can't even enjoy bad American football there.

Originally Posted by Omni

And, you mean Perry right?

Ummm, no, I meant Nick Price. Apparently the Packers have hired him in the hopes he can coach up the front 7 and improve their short game. You know how some coaches have players do yoga to improve flexibility or boxing to improve handwork of the players? The Packers are doing that with Nick Price and golf, hoping to improve chipping and focus. Or was it Vincent Price?

Yeah, I meant Perry.

[furt]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

My familia y yo vamos a ir a Espana. And Italy, Germany, Austria, France, and Ireland.

Damn, that sounds sweet. If you see a high school orchestra performing in Austria, that'll be my nephew.

I'll spend my summer moving to Maryland, so there's that.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

My familia y yo vamos a ir a Espana. And Italy, Germany, Austria, France, and Ireland. We're very excited. I'm just upset that they cancelled NFL Europe, so I can't even enjoy bad American football there.

Awesome, quite the adventure. I'm gonna be in Ireland golfing the week of Memorial Day. If I cross paths with anyone wearing a cheesehead I'll think twice about swinging on them.

[SenorBeef]

Suggs being out, and Lewis and Reed being a year older, I think this may be the year the Ravens defense takes a noticible step back. Flacco has already peaked. Hopefully they will implode and disband.

[SenorBeef]

I will take this moment to randomly declare that Andy Dalton is massively overrated. People act as though he were the center of the Bengal's turnaround, but his play was pretty meh all year. What success he did have was just chucking the ball up to AJ Green - who really is that good. If you look at his stats throwing to everyone but AJ Green, they're pretty bad. Even with AJ Green, they rise to mediocre game manager type levels.

Which is a decent enough performance for a rookie, but I keep seeing him praised as being unexpectedly great or leading the Bengal's season, and I just didn't see anything out of him that was very impressive. He may develop, but right now he's massively overrated.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

I will take this moment to randomly declare that Andy Dalton is massively overrated. People act as though he were the center of the Bengal's turnaround, but his play was pretty meh all year. What success he did have was just chucking the ball up to AJ Green - who really is that good. If you look at his stats throwing to everyone but AJ Green, they're pretty bad. Even with AJ Green, they rise to mediocre game manager type levels.

Which is a decent enough performance for a rookie, but I keep seeing him praised as being unexpectedly great or leading the Bengal's season, and I just didn't see anything out of him that was very impressive. He may develop, but right now he's massively overrated.

I don't pay much attention at all to Cincinnati football talk, so I don't know to what extent he is overrated. But I tend to agree with you that he's a complete "meh" quarterback. That's fine for a rookie, but I also didn't see a lot of "Wow" moments that make me think he's got big upside there. He was the 20th rated QB, he threw for only 6.6 ypc, which is 24th. And, most telling to me, he looked awful against elite defenses (Ravens, Steelers, Texans, and 49ers) and threw 3 interceptions against the Texans in the playoffs. I think it's folly to mention him in the same sentence as Cam Newton when he's much more of a Mark Sanchez type QB.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

I will take this moment to randomly declare that Andy Dalton is massively overrated. People act as though he were the center of the Bengal's turnaround, but his play was pretty meh all year. What success he did have was just chucking the ball up to AJ Green - who really is that good. If you look at his stats throwing to everyone but AJ Green, they're pretty bad. Even with AJ Green, they rise to mediocre game manager type levels.

Which is a decent enough performance for a rookie, but I keep seeing him praised as being unexpectedly great or leading the Bengal's season, and I just didn't see anything out of him that was very impressive. He may develop, but right now he's massively overrated.

I didn't watch enough Bengals games to thoroughly evaluate him, and I'm not sure how raw he is and what his upside could be, but my current opinion on him is that he's very Pennington-esque. Whether he can ever grow beyond that, time will tell.

[furt]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

I didn't watch enough Bengals games to thoroughly evaluate him, and I'm not sure how raw he is and what his upside could be, but my current opinion on him is that he's very Pennington-esque.

If he's Chad Pennington minus the injuries, the Bengals are set at QB for the next decade.

He's not an immortal, but Pennington was Very Good. I suspect Dalton will be Very Good. You can win with a Very Good QB. For a bad team, finding a Very Good rookie QB is a big deal.

[Ellis Dee]

In fairness, he had to step in and fill Carson Palmer's shoes. Palmer was kind of sucky the last few years but for a while there he was a solid franchise quarterback. That Dalton has the same post-season career as Palmer probably helps to drive any overrating that might be going on.

(Am I remembering right that they both appeared in exactly 1 playoff game? I know Carson went out almost immediately after the game started and was looking good up to then, and Dalton threw 3 picks, but 0-1 = 0-1.)

[VarlosZ]

I don't know, I think you might be besmirching the good name of Chad Pennington, who was a pretty awesome quarterback when healthy. Granted, he sat on the bench his first two years while Dalton was thrown in as a rookie, but OTOH Dalton was 23rd in Comp% last year, a rank that could never be associated with Pennington, rookie or no (he's the all-time leader in the stat). So I'm not sure how similar they can be, unless you just meant in terms of overall quality, in which case it strikes me unlikely but is entirely possible.

[An Arky]

Who's the other "ginger" besides Dalton?

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by An Arky

Who's the other "ginger" besides Dalton?

Wheedon, the Browns rookie QB they just drafted.

[furt]

Originally Posted by foiegrasisevil

wheedon, the browns rookie qb they just drafted.

Weeden. Weeden. Weeden.


Whedon.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by VarlosZ

I don't know, I think you might be besmirching the good name of Chad Pennington, who was a pretty awesome quarterback when healthy. Granted, he sat on the bench his first two years while Dalton was thrown in as a rookie, but OTOH Dalton was 23rd in Comp% last year, a rank that could never be associated with Pennington, rookie or no (he's the all-time leader in the stat). So I'm not sure how similar they can be, unless you just meant in terms of overall quality, in which case it strikes me unlikely but is entirely possible.

Originally Posted by furt

If he's Chad Pennington minus the injuries, the Bengals are set at QB for the next decade.

He's not an immortal, but Pennington was Very Good. I suspect Dalton will be Very Good. You can win with a Very Good QB. For a bad team, finding a Very Good rookie QB is a big deal.

I knew this was coming and I know the completion numbers, but I think it's misleading. Pennington sucked. He was the consummate game manager and with a HOF RB he never managed to win anything of note, his career record is a mediocre 46-41. If that's "Very Good" you're welcome to have him. Yeah, he was very accurate inside of 10 yards. Yes, he was a good leader, but that's not all that rare.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by furt

Weeden. Weeden. Weeden.


Whedon.

Ah, the Browns team motto then: "We done".

[PSXer]

With the Saints in disarray it's time for Cam Newton to step up and win the division


the rest of the team can help too I guess

[Omniscient]

I don't care what the stats say, I watched him a lot with my own eyes and I'm sticking with "he sucked." He didn't suck like JaMarcus Russell sucked, but he sucked in his own special way. No team ever circled a Pennington game on their calendar and every team that had him was looking for ways to replace him the minute they saw him use every shred of strength in his body to get the ball to the hash marks.

[furt]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

I don't care what the stats say, I watched him a lot with my own eyes and I'm sticking with "he sucked." He didn't suck like JaMarcus Russell sucked, but he sucked in his own special way. No team ever circled a Pennington game on their calendar and every team that had him was looking for ways to replace him the minute they saw him use every shred of strength in his body to get the ball to the hash marks.

IOW, "Yeah he won games, moved the ball, had excellent stats, earned the respect of his peers, convinced multiple coaches that he was worth building around ... but he sucked because I say he did."

I cannot argue with that logic.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by furt

IOW, "Yeah he won games, moved the ball, had excellent stats, earned the respect of his peers, convinced multiple coaches that he was worth building around ... but he sucked because I say he did."

I cannot argue with that logic.

I'm gonna say that the only one of those statements that I'd agree with is that he had excellent stats, and "excellent" is pushing it a tad. As for winning games, he wasn't anything to write home about and I don't think he got much respect from peers or coaches. You seem to have a wildly inflated opinion of the cult of the Chaz.

[furt]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

I'm gonna say that the only one of those statements that I'd agree with is that he had excellent stats, and "excellent" is pushing it a tad. As for winning games, he wasn't anything to write home about and I don't think he got much respect from peers or coaches. You seem to have a wildly inflated opinion of the cult of the Chaz.

He moved his teams from 6-10 to 9-7. Three different head coaches picked him as starter, and another one drafted him in the first round. You yourself said he was a respected leader. In one of his two healthy seasons, he finished second in MVP voting.

Those are all objective facts that seem to indicate that the guy did not suck. The only objective fact you've provided to support the idea that he was below-avaerage is that his winning percentage was above average. And I'm the one who is part of faith-based cult? (And no, "I watched the games and I know in my heart" is not a fact-based argument.)

I ain't saying he was an immortal; I'm saying he didn't suck, and a longsuffering fanbase would be happy enough to have a healthier version him for a decade. For Cincinnati, the prospect of averaging 9-7 over next decade probably sounds pretty appealing.

[garygnu]

Dalton wasn't great, but "sucked" is doing him a disservice considering the circumstances (a rookie QB on the Bengals).

[President Johnny Gentle]

In related news, Los Angeles loses a relocation candidate. I'm thrilled that the Vikings will be staying.

[mkecane]

Originally Posted by President Johnny Gentle

In related news, Los Angeles loses a relocation candidate. I'm thrilled that the Vikings will be staying.

I was going to post this. I'm happy they'll be the Minnesota Vikings rather than LA, and I guess I'm glad that the public is "only" on the hook for half the cost. But man, New Vikings Stadium, Target Field, TCF Field, Target Center (seems likely to get renovations), and Exel Energy Center, plus renovations at Williams Arena and Mariucci Arena...that's a hell of a lot of money spent on sports.

Things I like about it: it's downtown - I didn't think Blaine would work at all because that's a long way from the people in Edina, Eden Prairie, etc, where I'm guessing a lot of ticket holders live...Arden Hills is closer, but it's that in need of Superfund work?...yes, it will be a dome, but at least that keeps MN a player for the Final Four, Superbowl, and such; and finally, it is apparently going to be soccer-friendly, so MN can get an MLS team and possibly host World Cup matches should the US get the WC again. Still, it's a lot of money, and I'm sure some people will be voted out because of this.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by mkecane

I was going to post this. I'm happy they'll be the Minnesota Vikings rather than LA, and I guess I'm glad that the public is "only" on the hook for half the cost. But man, New Vikings Stadium, Target Field, TCF Field, Target Center (seems likely to get renovations), and Exel Energy Center, plus renovations at Williams Arena and Mariucci Arena...that's a hell of a lot of money spent on sports.

Things I like about it: it's downtown - I didn't think Blaine would work at all because that's a long way from the people in Edina, Eden Prairie, etc, where I'm guessing a lot of ticket holders live...Arden Hills is closer, but it's that in need of Superfund work?...yes, it will be a dome, but at least that keeps MN a player for the Final Four, Superbowl, and such; and finally, it is apparently going to be soccer-friendly, so MN can get an MLS team and possibly host World Cup matches should the US get the WC again. Still, it's a lot of money, and I'm sure some people will be voted out because of this.

I don't have much sympathy for Minnesotans. The stadium situation they've created for themselves is utterly idiotic. Why do they have separate arenas for the Wild and T'Wolves? They have the luxury of having a Big Ten school in the same place as their major sports city, something very few FBS schools can claim, and yet they have complete redundancy of facilities. 2 football stadiums, 2 basketball arenas, 2 hockey arenas, 2 baseball fields. WTF?

When they got the Wild why did they build a new arena? When they built the Target Center why did they not make it functional for Hockey? They did have the Frozen 4 and were almost certainly hoping to get a Hockey team back.

I suppose I understand St. Paul and the University wanting to have their own facilities, especially for college basketball and hockey, but they should have compromised somewhere.

They knew the Superdome needed to be rebuilt when all of these stadiums were agreed to, and they knew that keeping the NFL was far more important than getting the NBA and NHL back. They should have pulled the trigger when the built TCF Field and gotten this done, or they should have said no to the Wild and retrofitted the Target Center for Hockey.

[President Johnny Gentle]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

When they got the Wild why did they build a new arena? When they built the Target Center why did they not make it functional for Hockey? They did have the Frozen 4 and were almost certainly hoping to get a Hockey team back.

The Frozen Four was never held at the Target Center. It was held at the old St. Paul Civic Center, which was replaced by the Xcel.

The reason that the Target Center wasn't built for hockey is that it wasn't built with public funds. The original Timberwolves owners built it themselves, then ended up selling it to the city (after the 1994 mess that nearly sent the Wolves to New Orleans).

The Twin Cities have had at least two major indoor arenas dating back to the 1960s. Target Center opened in 1990 as the third non-campus arena. The North Stars were still in town at that point playing at the Met Center, so there was no thought to building a new hockey arena.

The X opened in 2000 after the NHL refused to allow a franchise to go to either the Target Center or to the Civic Center. The area was going to have two arenas regardless because of civic rivalry, so St. Paul tore down the Civic Center and built the Xcel.

They knew the Superdome needed to be rebuilt when all of these stadiums were agreed to, and they knew that keeping the NFL was far more important than getting the NBA and NHL back. They should have pulled the trigger when the built TCF Field and gotten this done, or they should have said no to the Wild and retrofitted the Target Center for Hockey.

When TCF was built, it was originally proposed as a joint Vikings/Gophers venture. It was shortsightedness on the part of the state legislature that prevented it. Essentially, the Vikings lease kept them from even threatening to move, so they were pushed to the back of the line. There was also no love lost for Red McCombs. Zygi Wilf has his detractors, but he's far more loved as an owner than McCombs ever was.

And the Twin Cities weren't going to let a chance for the NHL to return to slip away either. The Vikings are the most popular team in town, but Minnesota is a hockey state.

[furt]

Originally Posted by President Johnny Gentle

When TCF was built, it was originally proposed as a joint Vikings/Gophers venture. It was shortsightedness on the part of the state legislature that prevented it. Essentially, the Vikings lease kept them from even threatening to move, so they were pushed to the back of the line. There was also no love lost for Red McCombs. Zygi Wilf has his detractors, but he's far more loved as an owner than McCombs ever was.

I think the elected representatives putting so much stock in personal grudges and not looking long-term falls under the heading "don't have much sympathy for Minnesotans": two taxpayer-funded football stadiums a few miles apart is clusterfuck that should lead to politicians getting fired.

In fairness, though ... this is becoming pretty much the norm. I pray for the day Congress takes away pro sports' monopoly protection.

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by President Johnny Gentle

The Frozen Four was never held at the Target Center. It was held at the old St. Paul Civic Center, which was replaced by the Xcel.

The reason that the Target Center wasn't built for hockey is that it wasn't built with public funds. The original Timberwolves owners built it themselves, then ended up selling it to the city (after the 1994 mess that nearly sent the Wolves to New Orleans).

The point is that the city held it and would be holding it often when the Target Center was built.

Public funds or no, that is an amazing oversight. The T'Wolves owners should have been interested in building an arena that could house the Frozen 4 and be the future home of an NHL team. Having 2 tenants is a windfall for a building owner, look at Reinsdorf and Wirtz in Chicago.

The Twin Cities have had at least two major indoor arenas dating back to the 1960s. Target Center opened in 1990 as the third non-campus arena. The North Stars were still in town at that point playing at the Met Center, so there was no thought to building a new hockey arena.

And they could/should have continued to have 2 instead of 5. One for professional sports and one for college sports. Considering the North Stars were still in town, and being considered for a move, it's baffling that the Target Center wasn't considered as a destination for the Stars.

The X opened in 2000 after the NHL refused to allow a franchise to go to either the Target Center or to the Civic Center. The area was going to have two arenas regardless because of civic rivalry, so St. Paul tore down the Civic Center and built the Xcel.

Presumably this was because the Target Center wasn't built as a Hockey Arena.

When TCF was built, it was originally proposed as a joint Vikings/Gophers venture. It was shortsightedness on the part of the state legislature that prevented it. Essentially, the Vikings lease kept them from even threatening to move, so they were pushed to the back of the line. There was also no love lost for Red McCombs. Zygi Wilf has his detractors, but he's far more loved as an owner than McCombs ever was.

And now the citizens are paying upwards of a billion dollar for that pettiness. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Omniscient]

At least he's not one of the seemingly dozen guys with blown Achilles.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

At least he's not one of the seemingly dozen guys with blown Achilles.

What's Patroclus have to do with this?

[Jules Andre]

Jason Peters ruptured his Achilles again. His career is now in jeopardy. That's cool.

[garygnu]

One of the 49ers draft picks, OLB Darius Fleming, is likely out for the season after tearing an ACL.

[Omniscient]

The Eagles signed LeSean McCoy to a long term deal today. "Five-year, $45 million contract, which goes through the 2017 season, with $20.765 in full guarantees." according to PFT. McCoy was still under contract for 2012 and this extension falls right in line with what Foster, DeAngelo Williams and Lynch got recently.

This is interesting to me largely because it will obviously impact what happens with Matt Forte. Forte is 26, compared to McCoy's 23, Foster's 25 and DeAngelo's 29, and has similar productivity to these guys. Personally I think Foster and McCoy are slightly better than Forte because of Forte's issues in the red zone, but Forte is more durable and well rounded. All in all, it's tough to argue that Forte isn't worth an almost identical contract.

So, with a little luck, the Bears will, for better or worse, probably be getting a deal done with Forte soon with this rock-solid comp out there in the news. I can stomach a 5-year, $43M contract even if $8M+ per year is a little high for such a replaceable position. Then again, the Bears are going to run the ball a ton this year and we'll need a horse back there to keep the offense moving and a rookie/free agent wouldn't be able to protect Cutler on blitzes nearly as well.

I think all this will apply to the Ravens and Ray Rice's negotiations too.

[furt]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

The Eagles signed LeSean McCoy to a long term deal today. "Five-year, $45 million contract, which goes through the 2017 season, with $20.765 in full guarantees." according to PFT. McCoy was still under contract for 2012 and this extension falls right in line with what Foster, DeAngelo Williams and Lynch got recently.

This is interesting to me largely because it will obviously impact what happens with Matt Forte. Forte is 26, compared to McCoy's 23, Foster's 25 and DeAngelo's 29, and has similar productivity to these guys. Personally I think Foster and McCoy are slightly better than Forte because of Forte's issues in the red zone, but Forte is more durable and well rounded. All in all, it's tough to argue that Forte isn't worth an almost identical contract.

"Worth it" in an abstract, moral sense, but IMO McCoy is much, much more valuable, insofar as a team doing a signing is going to base it not on what the player has done, but what they expect the player to do in the future.

The difference between 23 and 26 is huge: probably half of great RBs have already had their best seasons by 26, and the very large majority of them have had their best seasons by 27 or 28. That's especially the case when guys are used as heavily as Forte -- lead back on his team for eight straight years -- has been. The odds are that Forte is already closer to the end of his prime than he is to the beginning of it.

Of course, the Bears aren't in the position of picking one or the other, they're just trying to make the best decision given what they have. But it would be entirely rational of them to decide that their best move is franchising Forte for a year or two and then moving on.

[Omniscient]

The Packers signed former 32nd overall pick Phillip Merling today. I remember liking Merlings' potential coming out but haven't seen much of him in Miami. This is one of those all upside FA signings. Merling underperformed but is young enough that there could have been mitigating circumstances. In many ways it reminds me of the Bears adding Okoye last year and that turned out to be something of a success. Hopefully Merling ends up being more of the Merriweather-type signing for the Cheeseheads.

[kidchameleon]

And the union has sued the NFL for collusion. Punishing the Redskins and Cowboys may come back to bite them in the ass.

[TheBoltEater]

Originally Posted by kidchameleon

And the union has sued the NFL for collusion. Punishing the Redskins and Cowboys may come back to bite them in the ass.

I'm usually pro-league on stuff like this - and I'm always anti-Cowboy - but how is this anything other than a textbook example of collusion? There was no salary cap, the league knew there wouldn't be one but they wanted one anyway, so the owners got together and agreed amongst themselves that they would punish anyone who didn't adhere to the non-existent cap.

It's not exactly the same as artificially keeping free agent salaries down, but how is it not collusion?

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by TheBoltEater

I'm usually pro-league on stuff like this - and I'm always anti-Cowboy - but how is this anything other than a textbook example of collusion? There was no salary cap, the league knew there wouldn't be one but they wanted one anyway, so the owners got together and agreed amongst themselves that they would punish anyone who didn't adhere to the non-existent cap.

It's not exactly the same as artificially keeping free agent salaries down, but how is it not collusion?

Supposedly the CBA explicitly forbids lawsuits for actions taken during the lockout.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ollusion-case/

Naturally the NFLPA disagrees with that interpretation. The way I read it is pretty ironclad in the NFLs favor.

[TheBoltEater]

Originally Posted by Omniscient

Supposedly the CBA explicitly forbids lawsuits for actions taken during the lockout.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ollusion-case/

Naturally the NFLPA disagrees with that interpretation. The way I read it is pretty ironclad in the NFLs favor.

Oh I don't think anything will come of the lawsuit. But if I needed any more proof that even the owners were pretty sure that this was an act of collusion, it's that little nugget in the new CBA right there.

"Whereas we're pretty sure we're gonna get in trouble for that whole cap thing, let it be agreed by all parties that, um, anything that happened before we signed this thing never happened so stop talking about it already."

[SenorBeef]

Made a thread to discuss the NFL Rewind packages if anyone is interested.