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  #1  
Old 01-09-2015, 06:39 AM
obbn obbn is offline
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His head just popped right off!

Hello Everyone,

I'm reading a book now called American Warrior: The true story of a Ranger legend by Gary O'Neil. This is an autobiographical book covering Mr. O'Neil's time as a special forces soldier. It's been a quite interesting read so far, but I'm having a hard time buying what I'm reading. If what O'Neil says of his time in special forces are true he makes even Rambo look like the biggest pussy to ever walk the face of the earth. This guy is the Forrest Gump of military men, apparently being involved in every military event from Vietnam to the Gulf War. And of course he is a master of every weapon ever invented and a Bruce Lee equal when it comes to martial arts.

I've looked his name up on Wikipedia and apparently he was in the special forces, but how much of his book is true, I just don't know. I was believing it for the most part until I read a passage last night where he claims to have, using nothing more than his bare hands, decapitated a enemy soldier. He then threw the severed head at another enemy, hitting him square in the chest causing him to run away in terror.

So my question is: Is it possible to remove a human head with nothing but a quick twisting motion and human strength? From his book:

Instantly, I was back in combat. All my American Warrior Free Fighting practice got unleashed. React. React. React. No thought involved. I grabbed the one guy closest to me, a small guy but real strong, and spun him around. Using his body weight I put my arm around his head and twisted, and I pulled his head right off his body. That was not my intent. It just happened. I just grabbed him, put him in that technique, threw his body, and his head snapped and ripped. Taking somebody’s head off is not as difficult as people imagine. You just need enough torque and anger. Then out of the corner of my eye I saw somebody else coming toward me, so I flipped the head and hit him right in the chest. Nobody’s real comfortable having a head thrown at him. He scrambled away from it, terrified.



So, what do you think? Possible or compete bullshit?

Last edited by obbn; 01-09-2015 at 06:43 AM.
  #2  
Old 01-09-2015, 07:09 AM
Smitty Smitty is offline
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I'm going to call shenanigans on this one. Sounds like a complete load of horse shit.
  #3  
Old 01-09-2015, 07:47 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
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"It could be his head wasn't screwed on quite right










But I think that the likeliest reason of all

May have been that his heart

was two sizes too small."
  #4  
Old 01-09-2015, 07:52 AM
obbn obbn is offline
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Oh, correction. It wasn't Wikipedia I found him on, butan article about him on the US Army's website:

http://www.army.mil/article/42408/Fo..._Hall_Of_Fame/.
  #5  
Old 01-09-2015, 08:08 AM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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It had happened before. From the documentary Crank Yankers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat Goldtwait
My momma had a baby and it's head popped off.
  #6  
Old 01-09-2015, 08:16 AM
obbn obbn is offline
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It had happened before. From the documentary Crank Yankers.
I would think am infant head would be relatively easy to detach. This guy is claiming he took a full grown man's head off, like he was removing a twist cap off a bottle.
  #7  
Old 01-09-2015, 09:03 AM
Anaamika Anaamika is offline
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I say it's bullshit.
  #8  
Old 01-09-2015, 10:25 AM
RitterSport RitterSport is offline
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I would think am infant head would be relatively easy to detach. This guy is claiming he took a full grown man's head off, like he was removing a twist cap off a bottle.
Crank Yankers was a TV comedy show with puppets. So, whoosh, I guess.
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Old 01-09-2015, 09:13 AM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is online now
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It's pretty difficult to take somebody's head off even with a heavy axe. Also calling bullshit.
  #10  
Old 01-09-2015, 11:23 AM
leahcim leahcim is offline
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It's pretty difficult to take somebody's head off even with a heavy axe.
Which is why "executioner" was a job, back in the day, instead of making capital punishment a "get a couple of guys together and pull real hard" situation.
  #11  
Old 01-09-2015, 09:24 AM
Ranger Jeff Ranger Jeff is offline
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The SF guys I knew, although reeking of confidence, were more likely to describe incidents like that like "Well, I got into a bit of a fix but managed to wiggle my way out of it" if they were talking to muggles.
  #12  
Old 01-09-2015, 09:30 AM
Johnny L.A. Johnny L.A. is offline
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The first thing I thought of was (F-word used twice, so possibly NSFW)

Last edited by engineer_comp_geek; 01-09-2015 at 12:22 PM. Reason: added spoiler tags around NSFW link
  #13  
Old 01-09-2015, 09:44 AM
RickJay RickJay is offline
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People who brag about their Rambo-like exploits are always lying. Always.

When they made a movie about Audie Murphy, staring Audie Murphy, a legitimate real-life Rambo, Murphy insisted they tone down his genuine exploits a bit.
  #14  
Old 01-09-2015, 10:02 AM
Lucas Jackson Lucas Jackson is offline
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Not possible, complete horseshit.
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:13 AM
Zeldar Zeldar is offline
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Maybe he's just gilding the lily and it was really more like this!
  #16  
Old 01-09-2015, 10:16 AM
longhair75 longhair75 is offline
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People who brag about their Rambo-like exploits are always lying. Always.

When they made a movie about Audie Murphy, staring Audie Murphy, a legitimate real-life Rambo, Murphy insisted they tone down his genuine exploits a bit.
Among firearms enthusiasts, there seem to be a huge number of people who were Marine Recon Special Operations Snipers. There are also a great many who are former Navy Seal Team Special Operations Snipers.

They are on the internet, so it must all be true
  #17  
Old 01-09-2015, 06:06 PM
bubba001 bubba001 is offline
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Originally Posted by longhair75 View Post
Among firearms enthusiasts, there seem to be a huge number of people who were Marine Recon Special Operations Snipers. There are also a great many who are former Navy Seal Team Special Operations Snipers.

They are on the internet, so it must all be true
I've noticed, in a long career of drinking, that most everybody I've ever met that told me that they were in Nam, was either a Marine sniper, special forces, black ops guy, or CIA. I question if a lot of these folks were ever in the military at all. I've had guys that were several years younger than me, tell me that they were in the Vietnam. One guy told me that he was a door gunner during the Tet offensive in 68? I was 13 in 68, and he was 5 years younger than I. The same idiot told me that he was a seal, a marine aviator, LURP, and a few other things. When somebody tells me that they were in that war, I immediately think "Bullshit".
  #18  
Old 01-09-2015, 06:10 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Originally Posted by bubba001 View Post
I've noticed, in a long career of drinking, that most everybody I've ever met that told me that they were in Nam, was either a Marine sniper, special forces, black ops guy, or CIA. I question if a lot of these folks were ever in the military at all. I've had guys that were several years younger than me, tell me that they were in the Vietnam. One guy told me that he was a door gunner during the Tet offensive in 68? I was 13 in 68, and he was 5 years younger than I. The same idiot told me that he was a seal, a marine aviator, LURP, and a few other things. When somebody tells me that they were in that war, I immediately think "Bullshit".
Yeah but if the US Army posted a website about them, I'd be less inclined to say "Bullshit".

Read obbn's post #4.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:42 PM
Patch Patch is offline
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Yeah but if the US Army posted a website about them, I'd be less inclined to say "Bullshit".

Read obbn's post #4.
Quote:
"We lost 60,000 troops, but we killed over eight million," O'Neal said. "That's almost a nine to one ratio."
Apparently he took a blow or two to the ol' melon over the years.
  #20  
Old 01-09-2015, 08:17 PM
aruvqan aruvqan is offline
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Originally Posted by bubba001 View Post
I've noticed, in a long career of drinking, that most everybody I've ever met that told me that they were in Nam, was either a Marine sniper, special forces, black ops guy, or CIA. I question if a lot of these folks were ever in the military at all. I've had guys that were several years younger than me, tell me that they were in the Vietnam. One guy told me that he was a door gunner during the Tet offensive in 68? I was 13 in 68, and he was 5 years younger than I. The same idiot told me that he was a seal, a marine aviator, LURP, and a few other things. When somebody tells me that they were in that war, I immediately think "Bullshit".
I can immediately think of several that were in the military at that time. My dad was an officer driving a desk and had nothing to do with the actual fighting [at that point in time he was doing logistics] and a couple of marines, both carried guns and walked a lot - though since one guy was small and skinny they stuffed him down tunnels occasionally. My dad's army buddies of the time were also all officers driving desks ... and mrAru had an uncle who was a pilot - making deliveries to Antarctica from Australia and absolutely nothing to do with the actual war zone. Basic boring duties [OK, the marines had some interesting times, but they were basic grunt types.]
  #21  
Old 01-10-2015, 05:46 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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I've noticed, in a long career of drinking, that most everybody I've ever met that told me that they were in Nam, was either a Marine sniper, special forces, black ops guy, or CIA.
I've literally never had anyone tell me they were any of those things. I mean I have plenty of friends who were Marines and whatnot. And in my previous line of work doing corporate data forensics consulting, I met a number of people professionally who were ex CIA, ex NSA, even former Halliburton. But none of them claimed to do anything more than what we did professionally - sift through databases and email servers and perform analysis.


Also, bullshit on pulling a mans head off. Try just pulling one of your fingers off. You can't do it!
  #22  
Old 01-10-2015, 08:41 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is offline
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Also, bullshit on pulling a mans head off. Try just pulling one of your fingers off. You can't do it!
I jus_ did and now i_ is _eally ha_d _o _ype comple_e wo_ds. _hanks _o_ no_hin_, je_k!

S__an_e_
  #23  
Old 01-12-2015, 03:00 PM
Dung Beetle Dung Beetle is offline
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Also, bullshit on pulling a mans head off. Try just pulling one of your fingers off. You can't do it!
No, but I'm farting up a storm!
  #24  
Old 01-16-2015, 02:18 AM
Melbourne Melbourne is offline
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Also, bullshit on pulling a mans head off. Try just pulling one of your fingers off. You can't do it!
Of course you can. It's why I don't wear a ring. Happens when your ring gets cought on a truck, or a fence, or a machine. Happens to kids when their ring gets cought on a merry-go-round.

I've never hear of an industrial accident where a mans hand is ripped off: typically, a hand does NOT come off: the machine sucks your whole lower arm in and mangles on it.

For heads, the nearest I can think of is hair: all to easy to have a chunk of your scalp ripped off.

Never heard of a head getting popped off except in band-saw accidents, and those are just old war stories machinests tell.
  #25  
Old 03-01-2017, 12:12 PM
Philliam Philliam is offline
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Originally Posted by bubba001 View Post
I've noticed, in a long career of drinking, that most everybody I've ever met that told me that they were in Nam, was either a Marine sniper, special forces, black ops guy, or CIA. I question if a lot of these folks were ever in the military at all. I've had guys that were several years younger than me, tell me that they were in the Vietnam. One guy told me that he was a door gunner during the Tet offensive in 68? I was 13 in 68, and he was 5 years younger than I. The same idiot told me that he was a seal, a marine aviator, LURP, and a few other things. When somebody tells me that they were in that war, I immediately think "Bullshit".
The first rule of Vietnam Vet Club: You don't talk about Vietnam Vet Club.
  #26  
Old 01-10-2015, 09:43 PM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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Originally Posted by longhair75 View Post
Among firearms enthusiasts, there seem to be a huge number of people who were Marine Recon Special Operations Snipers. There are also a great many who are former Navy Seal Team Special Operations Snipers.

They are on the internet, so it must all be true
Here in Minnesota, we even had one elected Governor who was a Navy Seal before the Navy had formed Seal teams!
  #27  
Old 01-21-2015, 08:36 PM
picunurse picunurse is offline
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Among firearms enthusiasts, there seem to be a huge number of people who were Marine Recon Special Operations Snipers. There are also a great many who are former Navy Seal Team Special Operations Snipers.

They are on the internet, so it must all be true
Seals never talk about being Seals, only posers do.

Anatomicly, the skin is VERY difficult to tear in a healthy, young adult. There are many strong muscles in the neck that are necessary since the head is so heavy. Otherwise we'd all have our heads lying on our sholders. The spine, with its cartilaginous joints is not as strong as others, but is protected by the mass od muscles surounding it. The trachea and esophagus are both strong.

It was once calulated how much weight it would take to tear off the head of a hanged man*. It was well over 600 lbs.





*It had to do with a prisoner on death row in Washington who gained ~ 400 lbs, then said that hanging would be cruel and unusual punishment, since his head would be torn off.
Because the calculations showed his head might come off the law was changed to either hanging or injection.
He expected his sentance to be changed to life, but instead he change the law.
  #28  
Old 01-09-2015, 03:44 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
People who brag about their Rambo-like exploits are always lying. Always.

When they made a movie about Audie Murphy, staring Audie Murphy, a legitimate real-life Rambo, Murphy insisted they tone down his genuine exploits a bit.
My experience has shown the same, but this guy is on the US Amy site, and is known to be a top Ranger and Green Beret.
  #29  
Old 01-11-2015, 10:31 AM
RickJay RickJay is offline
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My experience has shown the same, but this guy is on the US Amy site, and is known to be a top Ranger and Green Beret.
I'm sure he legitimately was a very brave and accomplished soldier, but he's still lying about some of the details. You can't pull a man's head off.
  #30  
Old 01-09-2015, 10:09 AM
johnpost johnpost is offline
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keeping your head on a swivel isn't always the best thing.
  #31  
Old 01-09-2015, 01:19 PM
gotpasswords gotpasswords is offline
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Originally Posted by johnpost
keeping your head on a swivel isn't always the best thing.
My head is literally on a swivel, and there's so much anatomy holding the spine together and surrounding it to make the idea of just popping a head off absurd.

One of the primary ligaments that holds the vertebrae together from the base of the skull to the pelvis is the anterial longitudinal ligament, and its mean breaking load is described as 600 Newtons. Tensile strength of the ligamentum flavum is 300 N, and the third end-to-end spinal ligament is the posterior longitudinal ligament, coming in at a relatively puny 67-138 N. (From: Sanford J. Larson & Dennis J. Maiman (1999) Surgery of the Lumbar Spine

And that's not counting the resistance offered by the muscles such as the scalenes and trapezius, and the skin.
  #32  
Old 01-09-2015, 11:39 AM
wevets wevets is offline
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Sometimes older 1977- and 1978-model heads have been known to pop off under low pressure situations, like high-altitude mountaineering or attempting to remember the phone numbers of ex-lovers, but I believe they were all recalled and the faulty pins that caused the problem were replaced. He must just have come across one of those older heads that had not been repaired.

Last edited by wevets; 01-09-2015 at 11:39 AM.
  #33  
Old 01-09-2015, 11:53 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
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Sometimes older 1977- and 1978-model heads have been known to pop off under low pressure situations, like high-altitude mountaineering or attempting to remember the phone numbers of ex-lovers, but I believe they were all recalled and the faulty pins that caused the problem were replaced. He must just have come across one of those older heads that had not been repaired.
Well, heck, the Trollenberg units had no problem pulling off heads, even of mountaineers. But they weren't human beings, after all. And they usually froze them, first.
  #34  
Old 01-09-2015, 12:01 PM
Just Asking Questions Just Asking Questions is offline
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(assuming this guy really was a SF soldier) Why do people write crap like this? Maybe us muggles don't know for sure, but his fellow SFers know. Does the author get calls from his old SF buddies where they laugh and make fun of him?
  #35  
Old 01-09-2015, 12:08 PM
Shodan Shodan is online now
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Considering the amount of force needed to break the neck in cadavers, under "ideal" conditions, is in excess of 800 N (cite - pdf), and adding to that the further force required to shear the soft tissues and decapitate the subject, I would say that someone being able to bring off a bare-handed beheading is implausible in the extreme - especially unintentionally.

The British government put together a table to determine how far a hanging subject should be dropped in order to break the neck and kill, but without severing the head. Note that a 120-lb. subject needs to be dropped well over seven and a half feet in order to reliably break the neck. To actually sever the head, one would have to generate considerably more force over a considerably shorter distance, and is thus that much less likely.

I would say that Mr. O'Neil is telling a good story rather than being strictly accurate.

tl;dr version - BS.

Regards,
Shodan
  #36  
Old 01-09-2015, 01:24 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is online now
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I would say that Mr. O'Neil is telling a good story rather than being strictly accurate.
If the blurb is anything to go by, he's telling a really awful story.
Quote:
The epic story of one of America's greatest soldiers, Ranger Hall of Fame member Gary O'Neal, who served his country for forty years

Chief Warrant Officer Gary O’Neal is no ordinary soldier. For nearly forty years, he has fought America’s enemies, becoming one of the greatest Warriors this nation has ever known. Part Native American, O’Neal was trained in both military combat and the ways of his native people, combining his commitment to freedom with his respect for the enemy, his technical fighting skills with his fierce warrior spirit.

From his first tour in Vietnam at seventeen to fighting in both Gulf wars, O’Neal was nothing less than a super soldier. A minefield of aggression bordering on a justice-seeking vigilante, O’Neal kept fighting even when wounded, refusing to surrender in the face of nine serious injuries and being left more than once. O’Neal earned countless military honors as a member of the elite Army Rangers corps, a founding member of the legendary first Department of Defense antiterrorist team, a member of the Golden Knights Parachuting Team, and more, devoting his life to training the next generation of soldiers. His unbelievable true stories are both shocking and moving, a reminder of what it means to be a true American hero.

In O’Neal’s own words, he "wasn’t born a warrior"—life made him one. American Warrior will serve as inspiration for American men and women in uniform today, as well as appeal to the countless [it cuts off here on Amazon.com].
  #37  
Old 01-09-2015, 02:09 PM
Dag Otto Dag Otto is offline
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The British government put together a table to determine how far a hanging subject should be dropped in order to break the neck and kill, but without severing the head. Note that a 120-lb. subject needs to be dropped well over seven and a half feet in order to reliably break the neck. To actually sever the head, one would have to generate considerably more force over a considerably shorter distance, and is thus that much less likely.
Sure but that is for a rope. This guy used his hands. Probably Wolverine hands.
  #38  
Old 01-15-2015, 11:55 AM
ScrapStitching ScrapStitching is offline
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tl;dr version - BS.

Regards,
Shodan
Excellent tl;dr

I'd want to know the 'using his weight' and 'torque' that made this possible. There's a lot of stuff to tear and break before a head comes off.
  #39  
Old 01-19-2015, 02:38 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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I'd want to know the 'using his weight' and 'torque' that made this possible. There's a lot of stuff to tear and break before a head comes off.
It reads like he held the head steady and spun the body around.
  #40  
Old 01-09-2015, 12:22 PM
buddha_david buddha_david is offline
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From his book:
Nobody’s real comfortable having a head thrown at him.
I LOL'ed.
  #41  
Old 01-09-2015, 01:13 PM
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It's not well known that heads are screwed on with a left hand thread. Most people would try to unscrew them anti-clockwise which would just tighten them more. I guess that this guy knew the secret.

Last edited by bob++; 01-09-2015 at 01:13 PM.
  #42  
Old 01-09-2015, 01:23 PM
zoid zoid is offline
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The A2s always were a bit twitchy
  #43  
Old 01-09-2015, 01:34 PM
md2000 md2000 is offline
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It's hard enough to pull a piece of raw steak into pieces, and those are sliced across the grain usually... and aged... and drained, and the sinews detached. It's hard enough to pull apart uncooked chickens.

I can't imagine a head popping off - it seem at the very very least there'd be some stringy connections left, turning his maneuver into a game of bloody tetherball and getting the head back in his face. Plus, wouldn't there be blood galore gushing all over the place, all over him? I mean he's basically hugging this guy to his chest and letting loose many pints of blood, probably up into his own face. I would imagine blood gushing all over the place and splattered all over him would be as intimidating as a flying head, if not more, yet not a word about that aspect...
  #44  
Old 01-09-2015, 02:07 PM
chacoguy chacoguy is offline
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I'm reading the same book and I've gotten to the point of just skimming. Between his invention of 'Rex Kwon Do' and doing a fucking Sun Dance, to all of his ninja bullshit, I've pretty much just given up.
  #45  
Old 01-09-2015, 07:43 PM
obbn obbn is offline
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I'm reading the same book and I've gotten to the point of just skimming. Between his invention of 'Rex Kwon Do' and doing a fucking Sun Dance, to all of his ninja bullshit, I've pretty much just given up.
Well, at least we only paid $1.99 for this work of fiction. I am assuming you got it from Amazon in e book format too. It was on sale last week.

Last edited by obbn; 01-09-2015 at 07:47 PM.
  #46  
Old 01-09-2015, 08:18 PM
chacoguy chacoguy is offline
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It's NOT FICTION! Those bad guys totally killed his family in front of him, but then, inexplicably, left Mr. Green Beret, Ninja Death Dude alive, because there's no way that it would turn out any way other than well.

I'm pretty convinced that he's a real person whom served well and did some crazy stuff. He's still full of shit, just like that guy that cornholed Jesse Ventura, or something.

ETA: responding to obbn.

Last edited by chacoguy; 01-09-2015 at 08:20 PM.
  #47  
Old 01-09-2015, 08:28 PM
obbn obbn is offline
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It's NOT FICTION! Those bad guys totally killed his family in front of him, but then, inexplicably, left Mr. Green Beret, Ninja Death Dude alive, because there's no way that it would turn out any way other than well.

I'm pretty convinced that he's a real person whom served well and did some crazy stuff. He's still full of shit, just like that guy that cornholed Jesse Ventura, or something.

ETA: responding to obbn.
I call dibs on NINJA DEATH DUDE for a band name!
  #48  
Old 01-09-2015, 08:55 PM
chacoguy chacoguy is offline
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No, that should be your personal name; like Sting or Bono.
  #49  
Old 01-10-2015, 12:08 PM
Poysyn Poysyn is online now
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Winnipeg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chacoguy View Post
I'm pretty convinced that he's a real person whom served well and did some crazy stuff. He's still full of shit, just like that guy that cornholed Jesse Ventura, or something.

ETA: responding to obbn.
I actually read American Sniper by Chris Kyle, and I will say most of what he wrote about reads pretty true (there was no mention of Ventura), mostly since he doesn't go on and on about how badass he is/was - he does go on about how professionally most of the soldiers he worked with acted, and that his high count was mostly due to being in the right place at the right time.

I have friends that are SOF - they next to never talk about it with most people, although they have shared with me, mostly because I don't ask about it but still have some understanding so they don't have to explain everything.

Last edited by Poysyn; 01-10-2015 at 12:08 PM.
  #50  
Old 01-09-2015, 02:21 PM
April R April R is offline
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You all have to post exerpts, like a straight dope serial of BS. It would be amazing
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