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Old 08-20-2016, 12:30 PM
UCBearcats UCBearcats is offline
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If France resumed monarchy, is the occupant of the throne known?

If the French decided that having a monarchy wasn't so bad and decided to have a coronation is the person taking the throne known?
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:51 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Most likely this guy.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:55 PM
Frank Frank is offline
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Most likely this guy.
Or this one.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:55 PM
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King Henry VII (Count of Paris) is the senior heir to the last King. The Wiki paragraph mentions other constructions.

Henri is 83 years old. His oldest son is Prince François of Orléans, Count of Clermont.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:55 PM
Schnitte Schnitte is offline
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If France decided to change its constitution to re-introduce monarchy, they would presumably also adopt a law specifying the line of succession plus identify a new monarch, so the new monarch would be whoever the amended law says it is. I suppose your question is: Assuming that they want to make the person monarch who would be person iof the monarchy had not been abolished in the first place, i.e., who is in direct line of succession to the old royal house. That person is, of course, known; the genealogy of the House of Bourbon or the House of Bonaparte or the House of Orl'eans has not been lost in history or anything like that. That means you have to pick which family, in your hypothetical France, would be the one continuing the monarchy: Would your monarchy be a continuation of the emperors from the Bonaparte family, the last one being Napoleon III., who was deposed in 1870 and died in 1873; or the continuation of the kings from the Orléans family, the last one of which was Louis Philippe I. who abdicated in 1848 and died in 1850, or of the kings from the pre-Revolution era, the House of Bourbon, the last one of which was Henry V., who died in 1830 as king?
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:33 AM
Princhester Princhester is offline
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If France decided to change its constitution to re-introduce monarchy, they would presumably also adopt a law specifying the line of succession plus identify a new monarch, so the new monarch would be whoever the amended law says it is. I suppose your question is: Assuming that they want to make the person monarch who would be person iof the monarchy had not been abolished in the first place, i.e., who is in direct line of succession to the old royal house. That person is, of course, known; the genealogy of the House of Bourbon or the House of Bonaparte or the House of Orl'eans has not been lost in history or anything like that. That means you have to pick which family, in your hypothetical France, would be the one continuing the monarchy: Would your monarchy be a continuation of the emperors from the Bonaparte family, the last one being Napoleon III., who was deposed in 1870 and died in 1873; or the continuation of the kings from the Orléans family, the last one of which was Louis Philippe I. who abdicated in 1848 and died in 1850, or of the kings from the pre-Revolution era, the House of Bourbon, the last one of which was Henry V., who died in 1830 as king?

Mon dieu, we 'ave missed a few. Someone fetch Monsieur Sanson...
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:56 PM
Malden Capell Malden Capell is offline
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The claim is disputed between the Legitimiste and the Orleaniste lines. The Legitimistes claim to be the true line through direct inheritance from Charles X, who was overthrown in 1830. The Orleanistes claim their right through Louis-Philippe, who overthrew Charles X in 1830 but was himself overthrown in 1848.

There's also the Bonapartist claim, from the Napoleonic Emperors, who were overthrown in 1871.
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Old 08-20-2016, 01:38 PM
Wendell Wagner Wendell Wagner is offline
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Here's the Wikipedia entry on the known current successors to various abolished monarchies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ent_pretenders

In several cases it depends who you're going to believe about what happened before the monarchy ended.
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Old 08-20-2016, 01:47 PM
APB APB is offline
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The claim is disputed between the Legitimiste and the Orleaniste lines. The Legitimistes claim to be the true line through direct inheritance from Charles X, who was overthrown in 1830. The Orleanistes claim their right through Louis-Philippe, who overthrew Charles X in 1830 but was himself overthrown in 1848.
It's simpler than that. Or more complicated. With the death of Charles X's grandson, the comte de Chambord, in 1883, the last of the male lines from Louis XV died out. So in the eyes of many of the Legitimists, the next in line was the Orleanist claimant, the comte de Paris, and he had been recognised as such by Chambord before his death. The two obvious rival Bourbon claims therefore merged into one.

But that required accepting Philip V's renunciation of his claim to the French throne on becoming king of Spain. Some Legitimists refuse to do so and it is on that basis that they instead recognise the duc d'Anjou.
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Old 08-20-2016, 01:54 PM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is offline
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Don't forget the Bonaparte claimant, who is likely Charles, Prince Napoleon, though some Bonapartists think it's his son, Jean Christophe, and not him.
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Old 08-20-2016, 08:35 PM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is online now
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What if I want to go old school, and bring back the Merovingians?
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Old 08-20-2016, 09:09 PM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is offline
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What if I want to go old school, and bring back the Merovingians?
Are there any descendants in the direct male line?
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:48 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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The Stuarts claim that they are not only the legitimate heirs to the British throne but also to the French throne. The current Stuart claimant is Franz Bonaventura Adalbert Maria Herzog von Bayern, Duke of Bavaria.
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Old 08-21-2016, 01:34 PM
Johanna Johanna is offline
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The Stuarts claim that they are not only the legitimate heirs to the British throne but also to the French throne.
But that would be on account of the English monarchs had claimed the throne of France for centuries. That claim was renounced by George III in 1801, but nothing the Georges did was legit for the Jacobites, so the English claim to France continued for as long as the Stuart pretenders did.

Last edited by Johanna; 08-21-2016 at 01:34 PM. Reason: +link
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Old 08-21-2016, 11:03 AM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is online now
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Are there any descendants in the direct male line?
Crazy homeless guy in a wagon.
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Old 08-21-2016, 02:33 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Are there any descendants in the direct male line?
There obviously is somebody who is the closest living heir of the Merovingian line. But any attempt to investigate the actual history is overwhelmed by conspiracy nonsense.
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Old 08-21-2016, 03:48 PM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is offline
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There obviously is somebody who is the closest living heir of the Merovingian line. But any attempt to investigate the actual history is overwhelmed by conspiracy nonsense.
They have to be males in the male line.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:07 AM
TYphoonSignal8 TYphoonSignal8 is offline
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Don't forget the Bonaparte claimant, who is likely Charles, Prince Napoleon, though some Bonapartists think it's his son, Jean Christophe, and not him.
That's news, and would have upset Disreali, who from contemporary commentary was quite pleased that Louis Napoleon, Prince Imperial, was skewered by Zulus in the 1880s thereby ending Napoleonic dynastic pretensions.
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Old 08-21-2016, 05:08 PM
Peter Morris Peter Morris is online now
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"No King of England if not King of France"
Henry V.

As far as I know, the monarchy of England has never formally renounced their claims on the French throne. They just stopped pushing it when France became a republic. If the monarchy resumed, so would the British claim.
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:22 PM
drewder drewder is offline
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"No King of England if not King of France"
Henry V.

As far as I know, the monarchy of England has never formally renounced their claims on the French throne. They just stopped pushing it when France became a republic. If the monarchy resumed, so would the British claim.
In 1800 King George the Third, that guy gave up a lot of territory, renounced his claim to the throne of France as part of the Acts of Union 1800 which united Great Britton with Ireland. France had demanded he do so during treaty negotiations in 1797. Also during brief returns of the Monarchy the British never again laid claim to the throne. I suppose they could always claim they didn't mean it but I can't see Elizabeth II claiming to be Queen of France.
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:57 PM
UDS UDS is offline
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. . . Also during brief returns of the Monarchy the British never again laid claim to the throne . . .
Nitpick: hardly [i[that[/i] brief. France was a monarchy continuously from 1804 to 1848 and again from 1852 to 1870.
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:08 AM
drewder drewder is offline
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Nitpick: hardly [i[that[/i] brief. France was a monarchy continuously from 1804 to 1848 and again from 1852 to 1870.
If your monarchy is around less than a single person's lifespan it's pretty brief as far as monarchies go.
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Old 08-22-2016, 08:02 PM
UDS UDS is offline
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If your monarchy is around less than a single person's lifespan it's pretty brief as far as monarchies go.
France was a monarchy for most of the nineteenth century. That's not a "brief return" of monarchy. The first French Republic lasted 12 years; the second 4 years. It took about 90 years from the French Revolution for the French to establish a republic that actually endured - the Third Republic, established in 1870. Prior to that, it was more or less continuous monarchy, with a couple of republican interruptions.
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Old 08-22-2016, 08:21 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is offline
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Nitpick: hardly [i[that[/i] brief. France was a monarchy continuously from 1804 to 1848 and again from 1852 to 1870.
Who had learned nothing and forgotten nothing.
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:06 AM
PatrickLondon PatrickLondon is offline
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Who had learned nothing and forgotten nothing.
I think that quote was originally applied to the immediate Restoration monarchy, under Louis XVIII and Charles X - hence the revolution of 1830. Louis Philippe obviously didn't learn enough to stave off the revolution of 1848, but he had enough to adapt the monarchy to some extent. It certainly wasn't applied to the Second (Bonaparte) Empire - though perhaps, in view of Louis Napoleon's failures in international grandstanding, it should have been.
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Old 08-21-2016, 10:21 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is offline
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Who gets the ring?
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:01 AM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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That Wikipedia article is a nice way to go down a rabbit hole for a morning; the ones that aren't "hereditary" are particularly interesting. I may start putting "Reincarnation of Jebtsundamba Khutuktu VIII, the last reigning Khan (1911–1924)" on my resume.
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:19 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is offline
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No, when I posted that, nor now for that matter. Why?
  #29  
Old 08-23-2016, 05:32 PM
drewder drewder is offline
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I would think if France voted for the return of the monarchy that whoever was the most politically powerful person or family in France would suddenly discover their close relationship to the French crown.
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