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  #1  
Old 01-30-2017, 01:18 AM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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Sci-Fi weapons with BAD design flaws

Death Star...no not THAT flaw...can only fire its mega weapon at approximentally 40%(?) of its viewable area at any one time. It really needs escorts. That it was unaccompanied by escorts should have been a dead giveaway that it WAS A TRAP!!

Doomsday Machine. Ok granted you can't penetrate its neutronium hull, but that doesn't mean you have to do strafing runs. Just sit over its axis. And btw....that thing being so ancient?? It would have its own eco-system by the time Enterprise encountered it.

Imperial walkers. Of ffs, stop flying in front of them. Ok yes theyre shielded. Still.

Others?
  #2  
Old 01-30-2017, 01:57 AM
coremelt coremelt is offline
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Tie Fighters: The "wings" are either heat sinks or solar panels depending on who you believe. Either way they're a terrible design since they cut off a fair chunk of visibility for the pilot and don't seem to serve any purpose as armour.
  #3  
Old 02-18-2017, 02:36 PM
TBG TBG is offline
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Tie Fighters: The "wings" are either heat sinks or solar panels depending on who you believe. Either way they're a terrible design since they cut off a fair chunk of visibility for the pilot and don't seem to serve any purpose as armour.
They have a worse design flaw. No hyperdrive. Your cap ship leaves without you, or gets destroyed/captured, you're shit outta luck. Enjoy floating in space the rest of your life (aka until your air runs out). Doesn't apply to certain advanced models, like the one Darth Vader flew in Star Wars (or he never would have been in either of the sequels), but the base model is pretty much a "hey, you're just cannon fodder, heh heh, empire"

They also don't have shields... That's just great in your primary fighter...

X-wings have both hyperdrives (obviously, they're how Luke travels to/from Dagobah) and shields. No wonder the Rebels were able to find recruits, no matter the numbers advantage of the Empire.
  #4  
Old 02-21-2017, 08:13 AM
Half Man Half Wit Half Man Half Wit is offline
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They have a worse design flaw. No hyperdrive. Your cap ship leaves without you, or gets destroyed/captured, you're shit outta luck. Enjoy floating in space the rest of your life (aka until your air runs out).
Well, but that's really just the Empire's idea of motivation: defend your cap ship at all costs, or...
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Old 01-30-2017, 02:51 AM
snfaulkner snfaulkner is offline
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Pulse rifles firing 10mm explosive tip caseless standard light armor piercing rounds are good for rupturing primary heat exchangers inside what are basically giant fusion reactors.
  #6  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:16 AM
Asuka Asuka is offline
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Pulse rifles firing 10mm explosive tip caseless standard light armor piercing rounds are good for rupturing primary heat exchangers inside what are basically giant fusion reactors.
The bigger problems with the M41A Pulse Rifle being the fact it has incredibly simplistic gutter/trench iron sights as well as a digital round counter that can't be seen without removing your eyesight from the sight picture. These looked better on-screen than they would in real combat which is why they did it.

The first person video games based on the Alien franchise managed to fix this in two separate but simple ways. They either always have the player character fire the weapon from the hip (much like in the actual movie) thus there's no need for the iron sights as well as you can still see the round counter while firing. Or they add a simple optic to the top that also has a build-in round counter there as well below the red dot sight.
  #7  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:35 AM
Dr. Strangelove Dr. Strangelove is offline
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Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world, eh?

Spaceball 1/Mega Maid had a self-destruct button which was too easily pressed, and irreversible (like a rain coat).
  #8  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:39 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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Light sabres need crossguards.
  #9  
Old 01-30-2017, 04:55 AM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is offline
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From one of the Vorkosigan novels I recall this quote on the subject of buying weapons:

"Stay away from the sale on neutron hand grenades. For those with a strong throwing arm."
  #10  
Old 01-30-2017, 06:41 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
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From one of the Vorkosigan novels I recall this quote on the subject of buying weapons:

"Stay away from the sale on neutron hand grenades. For those with a strong throwing arm."
Actually, the real-life version was almost as bad.

The Davy Crockett was the smallest nuke the US ever designed and built. It had extremely poor shielding (so even hauling the thing around was dangerous) and no abort function. If it was fired, it would go off. And if it didn't go far enough, you were screwed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_C...lear_device%29
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:03 AM
asterion asterion is offline
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Actually, the real-life version was almost as bad.

The Davy Crockett was the smallest nuke the US ever designed and built. It had extremely poor shielding (so even hauling the thing around was dangerous) and no abort function. If it was fired, it would go off. And if it didn't go far enough, you were screwed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_C...lear_device%29
The Fat Man from Fallout is objectively a terrible idea. A man-portable (not crew-served) nuclear weapon launched via catapult on the battlefield. The only thing that makes it work is the game mechanics.
  #12  
Old 01-30-2017, 07:49 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
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The Fat Man from Fallout is objectively a terrible idea. A man-portable (not crew-served) nuclear weapon launched via catapult on the battlefield. The only thing that makes it work is the game mechanics.
The Wikipedia article notes the similarity between the Davy Crockett and the Fat Man.
  #13  
Old 01-30-2017, 07:05 PM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
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Light sabres need crossguards.
Fuck that. First lightsabres need to be sabres. What they get in the movies are lightswords ffs !

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Originally Posted by asterion
The Fat Man from Fallout is objectively a terrible idea. A man-portable (not crew-served) nuclear weapon launched via catapult on the battlefield. The only thing that makes it work is the game mechanics.
Loosely based on a true thing though. Google the Davy Crockett nuclear recoilless rifle. That piece of wacko insanity actually saw field deployment, too ! The Cold War was a weird time to be alive...
(fake EDIT : so very ninja'd on that one )
  #14  
Old 02-01-2017, 12:44 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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Fuck that. First lightsabres need to be sabres.
Yes, basket hilts could also work. But how are you going to get the blade to curve?
  #15  
Old 02-01-2017, 11:09 AM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
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Yes, basket hilts could also work. But how are you going to get the blade to curve?
The same way you get it to have a finite length
  #16  
Old 01-30-2017, 06:57 AM
BeepKillBeep BeepKillBeep is offline
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Death Star...no not THAT flaw...can only fire its mega weapon at approximentally 40%(?) of its viewable area at any one time. It really needs escorts. That it was unaccompanied by escorts should have been a dead giveaway that it WAS A TRAP!!
This is not so. The Death Star was bristling with turbo laser and blaster batteries. We even see them in the movies. The Death Star definitely did not need escort ships.
  #17  
Old 01-30-2017, 05:47 PM
Declan Declan is offline
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This is not so. The Death Star was bristling with turbo laser and blaster batteries. We even see them in the movies. The Death Star definitely did not need escort ships.
The DS was armed to hold off capital ships, not fighter attacks. Even when the republican forces started their attack run, they only had 30 x and y wings, so when Darth takes it to them, they only had maybe four or five ties on screen, when they should have had 10 or 20 squadrons hitting the republicans in a meeting engagement, even before they got within range of the DS.

The only thing that we can conclude from this, is that the DS was designed to be assaulted by Imperial forces, should the commander of said DS go rogue and reach for the purple. As that worthy would have been the second most powerful man in the galaxy, with no apparent fail safes.
  #18  
Old 01-30-2017, 06:52 PM
smiling bandit smiling bandit is offline
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The only thing that we can conclude from this, is that the DS was designed to be assaulted by Imperial forces, should the commander of said DS go rogue and reach for the purple. As that worthy would have been the second most powerful man in the galaxy, with no apparent fail safes.
Sith happens.

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Are SW blasters laser weapons? I always assumed that they fired charged particle beams.
Never entirely clear. The color we see could just be a tracer so the users know where the heck they just fired.


Just from Star Wars: The Double-bladed lightsaber. Using two lightsabers. Arguably lightsabers altogether, however cool they are.


In Iron Man 3, the Mark 42 armor. Good concept... has some slight issues with stability. And impacts. And not knocking Tony on his butt.


In Batman Begins, the armor prototype. Yes, it's good, but Lucius Fox was being a bit silly to complain that Pentagon was too focused on the cost (three hundred thousand per suit), given that the same amount of money could be better spent almost any other possible way.


Also from Star Trek, the Bat'leth. And even the later, better-made Federation phasers are so poorly designed than the power supply can actually fall out accidentally, plus the whole thing is not ruggedized at all. The Enterprise-D had a saucers separation thingy, which was so useless is was forgotten for the almost the entire TNG series. And that's not getting into all of the outright insane weapons that various mad scientists attempted to create, all of which went disastrously wrong in some way.
  #19  
Old 01-30-2017, 08:34 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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. . . Also from Star Trek, the Bat'leth. . . .
What's wrong with them? They look cool, and they seem to combine the benefits of a sword, axe, and quarterstaff. Have people gone out and sparred with them, to reveal they don't actually work very well?
  #20  
Old 01-30-2017, 08:59 PM
smiling bandit smiling bandit is offline
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What's wrong with them? They look cool, and they seem to combine the benefits of a sword, axe, and quarterstaff. Have people gone out and sparred with them, to reveal they don't actually work very well?
While some people are that nerdy ( ), the big problem is that you can't actually do anything useful with it. Anybody with any real weapon would hurt you very badly in a heartbeat. You could do alright parrying with it, but you're not going to actually do more than surface damage unless they stand around and let you - which worked out really well for Worf because he had the writers on his side. And the moment you try to go on the offense you've just painted up a massive target on your face. Your best bet would be to either throw it at your foe and run away while he ducks.

Yes, it looks cool, but it's a terrible design. One supposes it could be some kind of ceremonial dueling weapon, since those don't have to make any kind of sense. But that's not really how it's presented. Also, the grip is designed so badly that you're actually working against yourself; it would be mildly painful to use and impossible to properly swing.
  #21  
Old 01-30-2017, 07:46 PM
BeepKillBeep BeepKillBeep is offline
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The DS was armed to hold off capital ships, not fighter attacks. Even when the republican forces started their attack run, they only had 30 x and y wings, so when Darth takes it to them, they only had maybe four or five ties on screen, when they should have had 10 or 20 squadrons hitting the republicans in a meeting engagement, even before they got within range of the DS.

The only thing that we can conclude from this, is that the DS was designed to be assaulted by Imperial forces, should the commander of said DS go rogue and reach for the purple. As that worthy would have been the second most powerful man in the galaxy, with no apparent fail safes.
Bah. Pure New Republic revisionism. The Death Star had plenty of starfighters available. There was no flaw with it as a weapon (well other than that one little flaw introduced by vile treachery). The true flaw was in the leadership. The arrogance of Grand Moff Tarkin and Darth Vader in assuming that there was no threat from the starfighters. A competent commander would have engaged the rebel scum with the full capabilities of the Death Star and they would have been destroyed.

Man, still craving a sub. I wonder if Subway is still open.

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 01-30-2017 at 07:47 PM.
  #22  
Old 01-30-2017, 09:43 PM
Declan Declan is offline
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Bah. Pure New Republic revisionism. The Death Star had plenty of starfighters available. There was no flaw with it as a weapon (well other than that one little flaw introduced by vile treachery). The true flaw was in the leadership. The arrogance of Grand Moff Tarkin and Darth Vader in assuming that there was no threat from the starfighters. A competent commander would have engaged the rebel scum with the full capabilities of the Death Star and they would have been destroyed.

Man, still craving a sub. I wonder if Subway is still open.
The stench is strong with these imperial sjw's.

DS only had one shot, one. After that it takes time to recharge the big gun, something like 24 hours according to the Death Star Tome. So you blow the big gas giant, and yeah big meteors are going to fall on Y4, long after the Republic forces have vacated the area that you just turned into an asteroid belt.

Sure blame Tarkin, no wait he is dead, Blame Vader, no he is equally dead, anyone with a pulse that you can think of to blame.
  #23  
Old 02-01-2017, 10:32 AM
Vicsage Vicsage is offline
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Sharks with freakin' laser beams.
  #24  
Old 01-30-2017, 08:30 AM
Just Asking Questions Just Asking Questions is offline
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Next Gen "dustbuster" phasers. There appears to be no aiming mechanism at all, not even a rudimentary bump on top to aim by. I'm not convinced the beam even comes out in the same direction each time. It seems to be controlled more by the special effects folks than the actual internal mechanism.
  #25  
Old 01-30-2017, 08:47 AM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is online now
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Next Gen "dustbuster" phasers. There appears to be no aiming mechanism at all, not even a rudimentary bump on top to aim by. I'm not convinced the beam even comes out in the same direction each time. It seems to be controlled more by the special effects folks than the actual internal mechanism.
It good design. It's just piss poor tactics. Trying to am a phaser is like trying to aim a machine gun: why bother?

The way to use the phasers is to wave them back and forth in the general direction of the enemy. The beams are traveling at the speed of light; no one is going to dodge that.
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Old 01-30-2017, 09:42 AM
gnoitall gnoitall is offline
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It good design. It's just piss poor tactics. Trying to am a phaser is like trying to aim a machine gun: why bother?

The way to use the phasers is to wave them back and forth in the general direction of the enemy. The beams are traveling at the speed of light; no one is going to dodge that.
Unless you're a Scalosian all hopped up on whatever radiation-induced weirdness makes them move faster than the Flash on meth. Then you can sidestep a phaser II beam just fine.
  #27  
Old 01-30-2017, 08:45 AM
Steve MB Steve MB is offline
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My favorite is the lampshade hanging on the Goa'uld staff weapon:

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Originally Posted by Jack O'Neill
This (holds up staff weapon) is a weapon of terror. It's made to intimidate the enemy. This (holds up P90 SMG) is a weapon of war. It's made to kill the enemy.
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  #28  
Old 01-30-2017, 08:54 AM
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The Death Star has a more inexplicable flaw - while it can travel interstellar distances in a matter of days, it takes hours to get to the other side of a planet.
  #29  
Old 01-30-2017, 09:05 AM
Maus Magill Maus Magill is offline
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The Death Star has a more inexplicable flaw - while it can travel interstellar distances in a matter of days, it takes hours to get to the other side of a planet.
"I say we're in range now." - What Tarkin should have said.
  #30  
Old 01-30-2017, 09:47 AM
gnoitall gnoitall is offline
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"I say we're in range now." - What Tarkin should have said.
While it's true that a Grand Moff doesn't have to be reasonable or patient, it doesn't make the attack on Yavin IV practical until it's actually practical. The Death Star had to get around Yavin, the gas giant primary, to get a shot at the inhabited moon.

I suppose he should have had the on-duty navigator spaced* for not bringing the Death Star out of hyperspace with a clear line of fire. Seems like orbital insertion planning is a serious training shortfall in the Imperial Fleet.

*He even could have used Darth Vader's line: "You have failed me for the last time."
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Old 01-30-2017, 09:58 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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While it's true that a Grand Moff doesn't have to be reasonable or patient, it doesn't make the attack on Yavin IV practical until it's actually practical. The Death Star had to get around Yavin, the gas giant primary, to get a shot at the inhabited moon.
I believe he was alluding to this.
  #32  
Old 01-30-2017, 11:11 AM
Maus Magill Maus Magill is offline
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I believe he was alluding to this.
Close - There was one where he just blew up Yavin.
  #33  
Old 02-02-2017, 03:36 PM
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The Death Star has a more inexplicable flaw - while it can travel interstellar distances in a matter of days, it takes hours to get to the other side of a planet.
I dunno...seems true to life to me. I can fly clear across the country in a few hours and then spend a few more taxiing to the gate.
  #34  
Old 02-02-2017, 04:08 PM
gnoitall gnoitall is offline
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I dunno...seems true to life to me. I can fly clear across the country in a few hours and then spend a few more taxiing to the gate.
And you DO NOT want to know how the Imperial Transportation Security Agency manages the pre-boarding security checks.
  #35  
Old 02-02-2017, 04:17 PM
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And you DO NOT want to know how the Imperial Transportation Security Agency manages the pre-boarding security checks.
"Are you carrying any Samsung Note 7 phones?"

"No, these aren't the droids you're looking for."
  #36  
Old 03-01-2017, 08:53 AM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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The Death Star has a more inexplicable flaw - while it can travel interstellar distances in a matter of days, it takes hours to get to the other side of a planet.
You can't enter hyperspace from a gravity well. Creating artificial gravity wells is how you prevent ships from escaping by jumping away.
  #37  
Old 01-30-2017, 09:50 AM
Intergalactic Gladiator Intergalactic Gladiator is online now
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Maybe they had to come out of hyperspace on the other side of Yavin. Flying through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, you know.
  #38  
Old 01-30-2017, 09:59 AM
The Stainless Steel Rat The Stainless Steel Rat is online now
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Both Stars (Trek and Wars) have all these advanced ships with these ultra-modern weapons, but when they engage each other it's always in sighting distance of the other ship, a few thousand miles at most. You'd think that someone would have developed weapons that worked a long distances by now...which they have, no reason phasers or turbo lasers only have a limited range.
  #39  
Old 01-30-2017, 10:19 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
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My big issue with the whole Death Star Yavin IV thing is why didn't someone say, "Fuck it, blow up the gas giant."

I don't know what it would do to an orbiting moon but I'm willing to bet it won't be anything good.
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:06 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is online now
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Both Stars (Trek and Wars) have all these advanced ships with these ultra-modern weapons, but when they engage each other it's always in sighting distance of the other ship, a few thousand miles at most. You'd think that someone would have developed weapons that worked a long distances by now...which they have, no reason phasers or turbo lasers only have a limited range.
The weapons don't seem all that powerful either. Even when the shields are down, the worst a photon torpedo or phaser seems to do is maybe put a cannonball hole in the hull and short out some control panels.

A modern anti-ship missile or torpedo will basically do this to a warship. These guys are firing anti-matter bombs at each other.
  #41  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:13 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Blasters and Phasers dont seem to be any much better than modern small arms. Except Phasers can stun.
  #42  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:20 PM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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Blasters and Phasers dont seem to be any much better than modern small arms. Except Phasers can stun.
As said above...in theory a phaser would be as effective as a "Death flashlight" Hell they even have a wide beam setting.

But I can only recall it being used once to sweep a group of people. That crappy second season TNG ep with the mute diplomat.
  #43  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:28 PM
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Blasters and Phasers dont seem to be any much better than modern small arms. Except Phasers can stun.
Blasters can stun too, which IIRC was used exactly one time.
  #44  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:40 PM
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Blasters and Phasers dont seem to be any much better than modern small arms. Except Phasers can stun.
Well, Phasers are intelligent weapons. They can heat a rock to glowing heat or, just as easily, completely disintegrate a person leaving no residue, depending on the current need :-)

I once read an article (Larry Niven? Isaac Asimov?) on the whole idea of laser pistols. Apparently, not a really great idea. If the other guy is wearing the right color garment, it might just (briefly) reflect off. And you don't get a nice hole when you shoot someone -- you get, at the cost of a massive expenditure of energy, a messy sort of steam explosion. Hard to see any real benefit vs passing a piece of high velocity steel or lead through the same object. Maybe for long distances, you don't have to worry about windage or gravity, but you do have to worry about diffraction and beam spreadage. Also, if there are any specular surfaces around, you could put your eye out.


Also, I wouldn't want to be *anywhere* around a variable sword or any other type of monofilament infinitely sharp weapon unless I was wearing a protective suit, because the mere idea of fighting or even being in the same room with a flailing length of "cut anything in half" gives me the willies.
  #45  
Old 03-01-2017, 08:59 AM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Blasters and Phasers dont seem to be any much better than modern small arms. Except Phasers can stun.
No recoil.

Little or no range or windage adjustments necessary.

Almost unlimited ammo.
  #46  
Old 02-17-2017, 12:42 PM
squidfood squidfood is offline
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Maybe they had to come out of hyperspace on the other side of Yavin. Flying through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, you know.
It occurs to me that the rebels are smart. Hyperspace is more difficult to navigate around large gravity wells. Pick a small moon next to a large gas giant, to greatly limit the entry points for capital ships (or death stars) dropping in on you.

We see more evidence for hyperspace risk on the assault on Hoth. The admiral didn't come out of hyperspace "too early" just because he was dumb - he probably followed standard Imperial protocols for safe distance given the stated mission. And after all, the assault succeeded completely as a military mission. That he should take greater outside-the-books risks with the whole fleet because Darth Vadar's sole purpose was to stop one person from slipping away in a small ship - hardly his fault he messed up that part.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:31 PM
CaptMurdock CaptMurdock is offline
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Originally Posted by squidfood View Post
It occurs to me that the rebels are smart. Hyperspace is more difficult to navigate around large gravity wells. Pick a small moon next to a large gas giant, to greatly limit the entry points for capital ships (or death stars) dropping in on you.

We see more evidence for hyperspace risk on the assault on Hoth. The admiral didn't come out of hyperspace "too early" just because he was dumb - he probably followed standard Imperial protocols for safe distance given the stated mission. And after all, the assault succeeded completely as a military mission. That he should take greater outside-the-books risks with the whole fleet because Darth Vadar's sole purpose was to stop one person from slipping away in a small ship - hardly his fault he messed up that part.
Actually, IIRC, Ozzel had the fleet come out of hyperspace close to the system (as General Veers tried to justify it, he thought he would surprise the rebels). Problem was, he couldn't really get close enough to Hoth to deny the rebels any time to prepare a counter-assault/evacuation (as we saw, most of the important assets -- not to mention the stars of the movje -- were able to be moved off the planet). If Ozzel had come of HP further away, the rebels might not have noticed them before the fleet could be properly deployed to prevent the rebels from escaping.

OTOH, I do think you're correct on the Death Star/Yavin questions.
  #48  
Old 02-17-2017, 01:45 PM
squidfood squidfood is offline
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Originally Posted by CaptMurdock View Post
If Ozzel had come of HP further away, the rebels might not have noticed them before the fleet could be properly deployed to prevent the rebels from escaping.
Ah that's right! And just went and looked at the clip to confirm - I got it wrong there.

This put me in mind of something else in terms of design flaws. If we can talk about defensive systems instead of weapons, in Hoth: (1) why was the Imperial ship knocked offline so easily by the ion cannon, and (2) if ion cannons have that effect on capital ships, why aren't ion cannons used more? Seems like a huge defensive mistake/hole somehow.
  #49  
Old 02-17-2017, 05:14 PM
smiling bandit smiling bandit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidfood View Post
This put me in mind of something else in terms of design flaws. If we can talk about defensive systems instead of weapons, in Hoth: (1) why was the Imperial ship knocked offline so easily by the ion cannon, and (2) if ion cannons have that effect on capital ships, why aren't ion cannons used more? Seems like a huge defensive mistake/hole somehow.
The cannon is massive, and we actually don't know they aren't used. Given that the Empire felt the need to build a planet-busting superweapon, they probably didn't think the fleet alone was able to take on hardened planetary defenses and win. Of course, on reason for that would likely be that, as stationary defenses, they can't guard anyplace else on the planet and can only fire into medium orbit at best. (Star Wars, being made by nerds for nerds, actually lists all the information on Wookiepedia.) Sure enough, the ion cannon the rebels had wouldn't have been able to hit anything - except that Ozzel brought the fleet in too close.
  #50  
Old 02-18-2017, 01:46 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidfood View Post
Ah that's right! And just went and looked at the clip to confirm - I got it wrong there.

This put me in mind of something else in terms of design flaws. If we can talk about defensive systems instead of weapons, in Hoth: (1) why was the Imperial ship knocked offline so easily by the ion cannon, and (2) if ion cannons have that effect on capital ships, why aren't ion cannons used more? Seems like a huge defensive mistake/hole somehow.
If my nerd-fu serves me correctly, ion cannons are basically a giant EMP gun for disabling ships without damaging them and they are frequently used. To take down the star destroyer, you would presumably need a massive one like the battery on Hoth.

I think you are missing the biggest design flaw of all. Giant orbital defense guns like the one on Hoth are highly effective at turning a 1 mile long warship into a 1 mile long unguided projectile in low orbit, ready to fall out of the sky.
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