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  #1  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:24 AM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Let's psychoanalyze the hell out of "The Wizard of Oz"

Brought to you by the Campaign to Get Skald to Post About Something Other Than Tolkien in CS

Please note that I wrote "The Wizard of Oz," with quotes and everything. I am, in other words, referring to the 1939 movie starring Judy Garland; if I'd meant the book, I'd have written The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, and if I'd meant the characters there'd have been no quotation marks.

TNT played the movie several times over the horror-days, and though ordinarily I might not have bothered with it, I learned that my son's sister, "Liz," who is living with us now, has never seen it, which gave me an excuse to indulge. So as Liz, Mrs. Rhymer, and I sat down to watch the whole thing through, I noticed something about the Cowardly Lion: his behavior is only a more extreme version of Dorothy's. Several times during the movie, Dorothy cowers in the face of danger, only to forget her fear when Toto or one of her friends is in danger. Since the whole Oz experience is but a dream, it seems likely that Dorothy was working through her own feelings of powerlessness and inadequacy in imagining the Lion's behavior.

That's just my thought, of course. Anybody else want to take a swing at it?
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:46 AM
mbh mbh is offline
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If we view the Wizard as a paternal figure, and the Witch of the West as a maternal figure, we must conclude that Dorothy wanted to kill her mother and have sex with her father.

Oh, and the balloon is a phallic metaphor. It goes off prematurely.

Last edited by mbh; 01-12-2009 at 11:48 AM.
  #3  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:48 AM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is online now
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The delivery of the broomstick is clearly an attempt to restore potency to the father figure, rescued from the emascualting mother figure.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:04 PM
mbh mbh is offline
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Been a long time since I saw the film. If I remember right, there was a sequence in which the Wicked Witch causes poppies to bloom along the Yellow Brick Road, which puts them to sleep. The Good Witch then kills the poppies with a snowstorm.

Clearly, Dorothy recognized that her dependence on opiates might prevent her from reaching her goals. Unfortunately, she merely replaced a heroin addiction with a cocaine addiction.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:05 PM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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We have to view Glinda as a meddlesome old passive agressive bitch. First of all she puts the shoes on Dorothy, who doesn't want them. This only ensures the witch will "off" Dorothy to get them.

Sure the West Witch was a bit miffed about her sister dying but that was only a trivial feeling.

Glinda "Could've" told Dorothy about going home ASAP, but chose not to do so hoping she'd get killed.

With the East Witch and West Witch gone and Glinda already assuming control of the North and South and amalgamating them into one, and the Wizard gone you can only assume what hell Glinda would wreck digused in the name of good.

Dorothy was a classic moron. When Glinda told her that the shoes had great power, Dorothy never asks nor makes any attempt to figure them out. When the West Witch is shocked by them, Dorothy never seemed to make the connection she could have hopped at the West Witch charging her while shocking her with her foot.

The racist Lion, remember him saying "I do believe in spooks," when black people obviously exist is nothing more than a weak attempt at humour. Instead of dealing with the situation he is trying to deflect from his danger by telling racist jokes. The flying monkeys are also clearly a racist joke, at the expense of African Americans.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:23 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Originally Posted by Markxxx View Post
We have to view Glinda as a meddlesome old passive agressive bitch. First of all she puts the shoes on Dorothy, who doesn't want them. This only ensures the witch will "off" Dorothy to get them.

Sure the West Witch was a bit miffed about her sister dying but that was only a trivial feeling.

Glinda "Could've" told Dorothy about going home ASAP, but chose not to do so hoping she'd get killed.

With the East Witch and West Witch gone and Glinda already assuming control of the North and South and amalgamating them into one, and the Wizard gone you can only assume what hell Glinda would wreck digused in the name of good.

Dorothy was a classic moron. When Glinda told her that the shoes had great power, Dorothy never asks nor makes any attempt to figure them out. When the West Witch is shocked by them, Dorothy never seemed to make the connection she could have hopped at the West Witch charging her while shocking her with her foot.

The racist Lion, remember him saying "I do believe in spooks," when black people obviously exist is nothing more than a weak attempt at humour. Instead of dealing with the situation he is trying to deflect from his danger by telling racist jokes. The flying monkeys are also clearly a racist joke, at the expense of African Americans.
Um...that's a POLITICAL reading, not a PSYCHOLOGICAL reading. You seem to be missing the central idea of the thread. Since everything between Dorothy getting knocked out by the cyclone and waking up to find Auntie Em looking down on her is a dream, Glinda can hardly be called "passive-aggressive" towards Dorothy; she's PART of Dorothy. Why does Dorothy's subconscious set up the situation to prevent herself from going home? Why is Glinda the only major Oz character without a real-world analogue? For that matter, why doesn't Uncle Henry have an Oz analogue?
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:49 PM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
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The Scarecrow, Tinman, and Cowardly Lion never existed at all, but were Dorothy's manifestations of her id, ego, and superego.
  #8  
Old 01-12-2009, 12:49 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas View Post
The Scarecrow, Tinman, and Cowardly Lion never existed at all, but were Dorothy's manifestations of her id, ego, and superego.
Which was which, or is the word "respectively" meant to be implied?

Last edited by Skald the Rhymer; 01-12-2009 at 12:50 PM.
  #9  
Old 01-12-2009, 12:52 PM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
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Respectively. The Scarecrow wants what it wants and doesn't think about it, the Tinman comes up with a way to get it ignoring all feelings, and the Cowardly Lion is the perfect representation of the idea that "Conscious doth make cowards of us all." It's only with courage that we overcome the superego.
  #10  
Old 01-12-2009, 01:32 PM
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As soon as Dorothy gets to Oz, the first thing that happens is that she kills the Wicked Witch of the East. This is clearly a reference to her mother, who died in childbirth bearing Dorothy. For further proof of that, note that she first lands in Munchkintown...the Munchkins, with their diminutive stature, clearly represent infants. Further, after the witch is killed, her slippers wind up on Dorothy's feet...this is Dorothy's "inheritance", so to speak. Her protests to Glinda and the Munchkins that "I didn't mean to kill her", shows her residual guilt at her mother's death.

Glinda, who appears at this point, is Dorothy's idealized version of her mother, glimmering and beautiful, but ultimately, unable to help her. At the same time Glinda appears, so appears the Wicked Witch of the West, upset that Dorothy "killed my sister", and demanding the slippers the Wicked Witch of the East had. The Wicked Witch of the West is, of course, no one other than Aunt Em (or at least Dorothy's image of Aunt Em), whose sternness Dorothy fears (Aunt Em was the disciplinarian, compared to her more laid back Uncle Henry), and who she feels resents her for, as Dorothy sees it, "killing her sister (Dorothy's mother).

Glinda being dead, is unable to help her "get home" (i.e., reenter into the loving family structure that Dorothy feels she misses out on due to her absent mother), so Dorothy has to go to the Emerald City and see the Wizard (Uncle Henry, as will be explained later).

So, Dorothy sets off, and along the way meets her personal insecurities (the scarecrow, tin man, and lion, representing Dorothy's own feelings of stupidity, fear of inability to love, and cowardice.) These images are so well known that I don't really have to go into much detail, I'm sure, although I will point out that feelings of inadequacy, emotional abandonment and timidness aren't uncommon among orphans).

So, after meeting her companions (although, of course, her neuroses really are with her always), she manages to get to the Emerald City, where she meets the Wizard, who seems at first to be a terrifying figure, but, as we will learn, is really less impressive in fact (much like Uncle Henry, who as the head of a rural Kansas family, should be the paterfamilias, but in fact, has turned over the leadership role to Aunt Em.). The Wizard will help her get home, but only if she kills the Witch and brings back her broomstick. (Dorothy has externalized all her negative feelings at her situation...her orphanhood, the poverty in which she lives, etc., and placed it all on Aunt Em. Aunt Em has become, for Dorothy, the source of all her misery. How much better it would be, she thinks, how possible it would be for me to have a home, a real home, if Aunt Em were out of the picture and it were just Uncle Henry and me. We could have a happy home together. There's no doubt here's a strong Electra Complex going on here as well.)

So, after leaving the Emerald City, Dorothy is captured by the Witch, who wants her slippers, and is willing to kill her to get them (We're seeing here, again, Dorothy's fear of her aunt, who, as was mentioned, she believes resents Dorothy and wants her dead). She accidentally kills the witch by splashing her with water (This, on the one hand repesents Dorothy's prayers for water, which was on the minds of every Kansan in the depression, but on the other, more personally to her, it represents Dorothy's supplanting of Aunt Em's role...pouring water to "keep down the dust" was a common household chore, and by doing it, Dorothy has become "the lady of the house".

Her mission successful, Dorothy returns to Oz, only to find out that the wizard is a fraud, that her companions possessed all the traits they were seeking all along, and to be informed by Ginda that she can get home by herself. This is a kind of breakthrough for Dorothy...she's done what she's prayed for...Aunt Em is dead, and it's just her and Uncle Henry, but she's still not happy, she still can't feel "at home". But what she comes to realize, indeed by this very failure, is that her insecurities are baseless....she is smart, she is loved and capable of loving, she is brave, and that the cause of her misery was never Aunt Em at all...it was her...she chose to be unhappy, she chose to be alienated, and she can now choose to reverse that.

So her voyage of self discovery over, she now awakes, a wiser and more psychologically integrated young woman, to the loving embrace of her family....her uncle, and yes, her aunt, who she now knows doesn't resent her for her mother's death, and who, in fact, loves her (and who, now healed, Dorothy is capable of loving back).

Last edited by Captain Amazing; 01-12-2009 at 01:36 PM.
  #11  
Old 01-12-2009, 01:40 PM
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is offline
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Captain Amazing... wow.

That was excellent!
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:27 PM
Shirley Ujest Shirley Ujest is offline
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Captain Amazing, you are AWESOME!


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So, after meeting her companions (although, of course, her neuroses really are with her always

Best line. Brilliant!
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:40 PM
dotchan dotchan is offline
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Huh. I always thought the Wicked Witch was the neighbor lady who wanted Toto be put down. (And the Oz experience was a shared dream - so neighbor lady is now inexplicably drowned in her bathtub, or something.)
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:49 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Huh. I always thought the Wicked Witch was the neighbor lady who wanted Toto be put down. (And the Oz experience was a shared dream - so neighbor lady is now inexplicably drowned in her bathtub, or something.)
I took Captain Amazing's utterly brilliant post to mean that Dorothy--who does not want to admit that she's angry at her aunt and disappointed in her uncle--substitutes the cruel neighbor and charming psychic for them in her dream. If she had put Em and Henry's faces on the Witch and Wizard, she'd have had to admit to herself that she thought Em was a bitchy tyrant and Henry a feckless charlatan. But the neighbor and the psychic are safe; one is obviously mean, and she hardly knows the other. By visualizing them, she can work her problems out n a safe way.

By the way: Captain Amazing is, like, Elrond.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:05 PM
Wendell Wagner Wendell Wagner is offline
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Skald the Rhymer writes:

> Why is Glinda the only major Oz character without a real-world analogue? For
> that matter, why doesn't Uncle Henry have an Oz analogue?

Uncle Henry is a secret transvestite who occasionally goes to the big city and dresses up as a woman in certain bars there. The costume he wears looks just like the way that Glinda dresses. In her dream, Dorothy includes Uncle Henry by imagining him the way that he sees himself in his mind.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:19 PM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is online now
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Captain Amazing, you are AWESOME!
Dare we say... amazing?
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:21 PM
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is offline
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Dare we say... amazing?
We dare! We dare!
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:24 PM
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It's all about the shoes. Shoes with POWER.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:25 PM
Captain Amazing Captain Amazing is online now
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Aww, shucks. 'Twern't nothin.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:32 PM
Freudian Slit Freudian Slit is offline
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Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
For that matter, why doesn't Uncle Henry have an Oz analogue?
Does Auntie Em, though? The farmhands are the Tin Man, Cowardly Lion and Scarecrow. The traveling fortune teller was the Wizard, Miss Gulch was the Wicked Witch. No Auntie Em or Uncle Henry analogues that I can recall.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:34 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Does Auntie Em, though? The farmhands are the Tin Man, Cowardly Lion and Scarecrow. The traveling fortune teller was the Wizard, Miss Gulch was the Wicked Witch. No Auntie Em or Uncle Henry analogues that I can recall.
Captain Amazing has answered more brilliantly than i can aspire to.
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:54 PM
Clivas Clivas is offline
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It's sexual. It's always sexual. Dorothy is a pretty young farm girl just coming into her own. Still innocent in action for the most part, of course, but the hormones are stirring up a terrible bee's nest in her mind. Let's take a look at how she fell into the pig pen for instance. It is a well known fact that men are pigs. Did you see how she lost balance? That was the most obviously fake fall I've ever seen. Clearly she wanted to jump in with the pigs to satisfy her fantasy of being lost in a sea of men but wanted to make it look unintentional to an observing eye. It was also a great opportunity for her to be saved by one of the many men in her life. Even though it was nothing more than concern and fright on his part, he was unwittingly playing hero to her damsel in distress.

Um. Yeah. That's all I got.
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:02 PM
Freudian Slit Freudian Slit is offline
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Captain Amazing has answered more brilliantly than i can aspire to.
Ah, I read that. I was just wondering since you mentioned that before his response. In all seriousness, does the character who plays Auntie Em play someone in Oz, the way that some of the other characters do, like Margaret Hamilton playing Miss Gulch and the witches? (Checking IMDb, I don't think she does.)
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:06 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Ah, I read that. I was just wondering since you mentioned that before his response. In all seriousness, does the character who plays Auntie Em play someone in Oz, the way that some of the other characters do, like Margaret Hamilton playing Miss Gulch and the witches? (Checking IMDb, I don't think she does.)
Nope. I was aware when I began the thread that she and Henry were the two Kansas characters without Oz catalogs, but she can be explained away more easily. For Dorothy, Kansas = home = Auntie Em, and she actually sees a vision of her while in Oz, which is not true of Henry. His absence seems odder.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:01 PM
kunilou kunilou is online now
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Of course Auntie Em and Uncle Henry don't have analogs in Oz. The whole story is about Dorothy is about confronting her fears (and incidentally, her own sexuality) -- in short, about growing up. There's no room in her subconcious manifestation for parental figures. This is further proved by the impotence of the Wizard and the fact that the Wicked Witch of the West wasn't simply vanquished, or even killed, but melted.

It's all about the passage from childhood to maturity.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:04 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Of course Auntie Em and Uncle Henry don't have analogs in Oz. The whole story is about Dorothy is about confronting her fears (and incidentally, her own sexuality) -- in short, about growing up. There's no room in her subconcious manifestation for parental figures. This is further proved by the impotence of the Wizard and the fact that the Wicked Witch of the West wasn't simply vanquished, or even killed, but melted.

It's all about the passage from childhood to maturity.
I'm not buying the sexuality part and demand citations. Or cookies.
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:38 PM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is online now
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The sexuality part comes from the "ruby slippers." Red has symbolized menstruation since the time of Little Red Riding Hood.

The "ruby slippers," the sign of a mature and fertile woman, are taken from her deceased mother-image and bestowed upon Dorothy (without her consent) by teh idealized mother figure.

The Wicked Witch of the West, representing the post-menupausal and barren Auntie Em ants to take Dorothy's fertility from her. The power to control her own sexuality was given to Dorothy with menarch.

(The Wicked Witch is clearly an analogue of Auntie Em. In the castle, the image of Auntie Em changes to the mocking image of the Witch. Clearly they are the same person.)
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:50 PM
eleanorigby eleanorigby is offline
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I fear I must disagree with my esteemed colleague, Professor Captain Amazing regarding the import of water in Oz. I do see water as being crucial to Dorothy's gaining supremacy, but it is not in a domestic context that such occurs.

The Wicked (emphasis mine) Witch of the West clearly represents Dorothy's fear of her own sexuality, hence the unattractive appearance of said "witch", the green skin a metaphor for Dorothy being "green" in terms of sexual experience (ie a virgin). The WWW rides a broomstick, an obvious phallic symbol and one that both startles and scares Dorothy; the WWW possesses powers that Dorothy does not understand and that Dorothy fears; and that the WWW covets Dorothy's "ruby slippers"--a symbol of menstruation. And then the classic confrontation scene between WWW and D wherein Dorothy throws water (very important sexual image) over the WWW and the witch is destroyed. Water represents orgasm here and with the dousing (ie full arousal and release), Dorothy makes the "witch" melt--entering into the post-coital relaxation phase.

Also note that Dorothy can ONLY go home again, once this melting has occurred-- that is, once she has conquered her fear of her own sexuality, she is empowered to reenter her world (which, it must be noted, is full of unattached older men--clearly Dorothy has more issues to be resolved and will need recurrent psychotherapy).

Last edited by eleanorigby; 01-12-2009 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:01 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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MGM studios can't make the nut
they're auctioning Dorothy's shoes.
Gable is gone, the good witch is a slut
and I've got the parking lot blues.

The wizard brought benzadrine smiles
and he never let Dorothy doze.
She died as she walked down the aisle
and all that remains is her clothes.

Over the rainbow a Kansas tornado
can twist up a little girl´s head.
Aunt Em's on relief and the tinman's a thief
and even the wizard can't wake the dead.

La la la la la la la la la,
la la la la la la la.
-- Don McLean
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:02 PM
Laughing Lagomorph Laughing Lagomorph is offline
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Originally Posted by Wendell Wagner View Post
Skald the Rhymer writes:

> Why is Glinda the only major Oz character without a real-world analogue? For
> that matter, why doesn't Uncle Henry have an Oz analogue?

Uncle Henry is a secret transvestite who occasionally goes to the big city and dresses up as a woman in certain bars there. The costume he wears looks just like the way that Glinda dresses. In her dream, Dorothy includes Uncle Henry by imagining him the way that he sees himself in his mind.

Twisted, but I like it.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:33 PM
John DiFool John DiFool is online now
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Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas View Post
The Scarecrow, Tinman, and Cowardly Lion never existed at all, but were Dorothy's manifestations of her id, ego, and superego.
Ah, kinda like Curly, Larry and Moe, eh?
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:57 PM
outlierrn outlierrn is offline
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Eleanorigby has made some insightful suggestions, but ultimately is a bit off.

No, clearly what we have here is a breakdown if the virgin/mother/crone mythos brought on by rural isolation. Dorothy is the virgin on the cusp of womanhood, and miss Gulch is the crone. But dorothy's own mother (deceased) and Aunt Em (childless) leave her with no role model for the mother. The ruby slippers represent not menstruation, but her virginity, she fears to 'give it up' because she fears she will transition directly from virgin to withered crone, do not pass go, do not collect 200 orgasms.

Unfortunately, in addition to a lack of a mother figure, she is also isolated from any true masculinity and has only been exposed to weak, ambitionless hirelings and emasculated Uncle Henry.

Driven mercilessly by her bodies demands, but with no direction in sight, she creates a fantasy destination where all will be resolved, however since no warrior/hunter archtype existed in Kansas, she will not find one over the rainbow and her journey will become one not just of self discovery, but self satisfaction as well, 'you had the power all the time.'

Tapping her heels together (she did it a lot more than 3 times) is her discovery of masturbation which resolves the crisis and allows her to re-enter her normal world. the water and the WWW? Well, let's just say that Dorothy was the first recorded female ejaculator in american fiction.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:38 PM
Terrifel Terrifel is offline
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Dorothy's experience is best understood as a combination of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder, ultimately originating from her tour of duty as a LuRP in 'Nam.

The upheaval of the 1960s' social and political landscape is embodied by the cyclone that carries her to Oz-- after all, what is a tornado but an extremely powerful wind-- or "draft?" Her arrival in Oz is characterized by a sudden perception of vivid color, a common effect of "tripping" on LSD ("Blue Cheer"). The Yellow Brick Road was of course the A Shau Valley in Thua Thien Province. The Scarecrow likely represents Robert Macnamara, with the Tin Man symbolizing Henry Kissinger and the Cowardly Lion representing James Schlesinger. In order to return home, Dorothy is tasked by the Great and Powerful, yet ultimately deceptive and untrustworthy, Oz (Nixon) to destroy the Wicked Witch of the West (international Communism), whom she melts with a bucket of water (Agent Orange). When Oz fails to fulfill his promise, she is ultimately rescued by Glinda the Good (an underage Saigon prostitute) and returns home with the Ruby Slippers (gonorrhea).
  #34  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:30 PM
Magiver Magiver is offline
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It's a movie about sex, drugs and gang wars. Dorothy is initiated into the gang of Neo-Nazis (Munichland) where she proves herself by killing a rival gang leader. Little M (“mayor of the gang) is unconvinced of her loyalty and tells her to hit the road with another test. They send 3 of their own henchmen with her: a steely heartless killer known for using an ax, a don-won sleaze-ball who pretends to cat around but spends most of his time playing with himself (constantly pulling his tail), and a bag-man who represents the anti-Christ (he’s found crucified for failing to keep the stuff on him).

The task is to make a hit on the head of another rival gang and take over the territory. She’s sent to a wizkid who is supposed to hook her up in exchange for drugs. She makes the mistake of sampling the drugs (opium from the poppy fields) and ends up sleeping with her peeps. This eventually leads her to heroin (which she swore she would do when monkeys fly out of her ass). It all comes undone when her little friend is captured and her companions start to have second thoughts. The mission to rescue the dog is really symbolic of 3 dirty old men in search of a little tail.

The end of the movie leaves her flying high with the wizkid after all the killings and drugs. The final scene is of her in a drug-induced haze surrounded by her gang banging friends. The bedroom scene and the return of the little dog signify the old men got what they were after.

Last edited by Magiver; 01-12-2009 at 10:32 PM.
  #35  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:24 AM
outlierrn outlierrn is offline
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Originally Posted by Terrifel View Post
When Oz fails to fulfill his promise, she is ultimately rescued by Glinda the Good (an underage Saigon prostitute) and returns home with the Ruby Slippers (gonorrhea).

The problem I have with this is that Glinda is 53 years old. Talk about loving you long time.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:31 AM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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As soon as Dorothy gets to Oz, the first thing that happens is that she kills the Wicked Witch of the East. This is clearly a reference to her mother, who died in childbirth bearing Dorothy.
But if we're sticking to the movie we don't know this, in fact we don't know that Dorothy's mother and father are dead at all. Dorothy doesn't even realize she killed someone till Glinda points it out to her. So Glinda again is central to her reality.


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For further proof of that, note that she first lands in Munchkintown...the Munchkins, with their diminutive stature, clearly represent infants.
How does small with old faces equal infants?

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Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
Further, after the witch is killed, her slippers wind up on Dorothy's feet...this is Dorothy's "inheritance", so to speak.
But they don't just happen to wind up on Dororthy's feet. They are deliberately stolen from the East Witch and put their by Glinda. Again meddling where she doesn't belong.

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Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
Her protests to Glinda and the Munchkins that "I didn't mean to kill her", shows her residual guilt at her mother's death.
Doesn't her protest of innocence come AFTER the East Witch accuses her of murder not before?

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Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
Glinda, who appears at this point, is Dorothy's idealized version of her mother, glimmering and beautiful, but ultimately, unable to help her.
But Glinda appeared before that point and didn't appear but was summoned. But Glinda clearly was able to help Dorothy but deliberately chose NOT to do it. Glinda exposed Dorothy to danger only to resuce her to keep her from getting killed so she could kill the West Witch.

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Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
At the same time Glinda appears, so appears the Wicked Witch of the West, upset that Dorothy "killed my sister",
But this was after long after Glinda appeared and after a 15 minute on screen interlude of singing and dancing and celebrating of the East Witches death, while Dorothy was given presents, such as lollipops for her murdering of a figure.

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Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
and demanding the slippers the Wicked Witch of the East had.
Incorrect the West Witch is more concerned of the crime committed and the fact that people are celebrating her sister's death. In fact it, once again, Glinda who has to say "Aren't you forgetting about the Ruby Slippers?" Then she procedes to use steal the West Witch's rightful claim.

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Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
The Wicked Witch of the West is, of course, no one other than Aunt Em (or at least Dorothy's image of Aunt Em), whose sternness Dorothy fears (Aunt Em was the disciplinarian, compared to her more laid back Uncle Henry), and who she feels resents her for, as Dorothy sees it, "killing her sister (Dorothy's mother).
Again we never see this if we're going strictly by the movie. Aunt Em at best in the movie is busy not unconcerned. If I recall correctly it is her Uncle Henry who give's Toto to Miss Gultch while Aunt Em defends Dorothy saying "If I wasn't a good Christian woman, I'd tell you what I think of you." Also Em defends Dorothy saying "Just because you own half the county doesn't mean you can tell the other half what to do." Aunt Em in the movie shows love care and defends Dorothy.

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Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
Glinda being dead, is unable to help her "get home" (i.e., reenter into the loving family structure that Dorothy feels she misses out on due to her absent mother), so Dorothy has to go to the Emerald City and see the Wizard (Uncle Henry, as will be explained later).
Glinda is shown to be alive throughout keeping Dorothy safe enough to do her dirty work

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Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
So, Dorothy sets off, and along the way meets her personal insecurities (the scarecrow, tin man, and lion, representing Dorothy's own feelings of stupidity, fear of inability to love, and cowardice.) These images are so well known that I don't really have to go into much detail, I'm sure, although I will point out that feelings of inadequacy, emotional abandonment and timidness aren't uncommon among orphans).
When do we ever get the suggestion Dorothy has those fears. She expresses, love to her dog, anger when she defends him from Miss Gultch, adventure by running away. She's not afraid of strangers going into Professor Marvels trailer a man she doesn't even know.

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Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
The Wizard will help her get home, but only if she kills the Witch and brings back her broomstick. (Dorothy has externalized all her negative feelings at her situation...her orphanhood, the poverty in which she lives, etc., and placed it all on Aunt Em.
Dorothy hardly lives in poverty. She lives on a farm in the 30s. She has a nice home, lots animals to eat and a farm which employes THREE hired hands and requires Dorothy to do no work must be successful. Remember all the hired hands and Aunt Em and and her uncle are working while Dorothy is bitching about a problem she largely brought on herself. Aunt Em is clearly distressed by her workload but doesn't ask Dorothy to help, just merely stay out of her way, while she does everything

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Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
Aunt Em has become, for Dorothy, the source of all her misery. How much better it would be, she thinks, how possible it would be for me to have a home, a real home, if Aunt Em were out of the picture and it were just Uncle Henry and me. We could have a happy home together. There's no doubt here's a strong Electra Complex going on here as well.)
Huh? Dorothy loves Aunt Em and cries for her throughout the movie. The closest thing she comes to feeling negative about Aunt Em is when she says "I've been gone so long Aunt Em and Uncle Henry have probably stopped wondering where I am."
  #37  
Old 01-13-2009, 10:22 AM
eleanorigby eleanorigby is offline
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Originally Posted by outlierrn View Post
Eleanorigby has made some insightful suggestions, but ultimately is a bit off.

No, clearly what we have here is a breakdown if the virgin/mother/crone mythos brought on by rural isolation. Dorothy is the virgin on the cusp of womanhood, and miss Gulch is the crone. But dorothy's own mother (deceased) and Aunt Em (childless) leave her with no role model for the mother. The ruby slippers represent not menstruation, but her virginity, she fears to 'give it up' because she fears she will transition directly from virgin to withered crone, do not pass go, do not collect 200 orgasms.

Unfortunately, in addition to a lack of a mother figure, she is also isolated from any true masculinity and has only been exposed to weak, ambitionless hirelings and emasculated Uncle Henry.

Driven mercilessly by her bodies demands, but with no direction in sight, she creates a fantasy destination where all will be resolved, however since no warrior/hunter archtype existed in Kansas, she will not find one over the rainbow and her journey will become one not just of self discovery, but self satisfaction as well, 'you had the power all the time.'

Tapping her heels together (she did it a lot more than 3 times) is her discovery of masturbation which resolves the crisis and allows her to re-enter her normal world. the water and the WWW? Well, let's just say that Dorothy was the first recorded female ejaculator in american fiction.
And in this contribution we see the value of collegial discourse. I am grateful for the insights my esteemed colleague has shared and from them take fresh perspectives to my own practice and analyses. <bows to outlierrn>
  #38  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:15 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is online now
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I think Alan Moore's Lost Girls should be required reading for this course, BTW.

Also, where does Toto fit into all this?
  #39  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:31 AM
Terrifel Terrifel is offline
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Toto symbolizes the playful innocence that Dorothy struggled so desperately to shelter and preserve, even while incinerating the huts of civilians in Chu Lai.
  #40  
Old 01-13-2009, 01:00 PM
outlierrn outlierrn is offline
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Originally Posted by eleanorigby View Post
And in this contribution we see the value of collegial discourse. I am grateful for the insights my esteemed colleague has shared and from them take fresh perspectives to my own practice and analyses. <bows to outlierrn>
Not at all, we're a team. My only concern is the patients wellbeing.
  #41  
Old 01-13-2009, 01:02 PM
Freudian Slit Freudian Slit is offline
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We have to view Glinda as a meddlesome old passive agressive bitch. First of all she puts the shoes on Dorothy, who doesn't want them. This only ensures the witch will "off" Dorothy to get them.
Or someone treating Dorothy and her friends as a mere political pawn to get rid of the witch who is stirring up some inconvenient truths about Oz. (Yes, I saw "Wicked," too.)
  #42  
Old 01-13-2009, 03:57 PM
eleanorigby eleanorigby is offline
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Not at all, we're a team. My only concern is the patients wellbeing.
Absolutely. Your dedication and professionalism shine through and act as standards for us all.
  #43  
Old 01-13-2009, 04:41 PM
ralph124c ralph124c is offline
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Dorothy wishes to have an affair with the Wizard of OZ. The tin man, the scarcrow, the cowardly lion are all projectuons of her desires.
Its all about sex.
  #44  
Old 01-13-2009, 04:54 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is online now
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Not at all, we're a team. My only concern is the patients wellbeing.
It's interesting that you continue to focus on others rather than yourself. Very interesting.
  #45  
Old 01-13-2009, 08:04 PM
eleanorigby eleanorigby is offline
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It's interesting that you continue to focus on others rather than yourself. Very interesting.
As did Dorothy....
  #46  
Old 01-14-2009, 03:08 AM
outlierrn outlierrn is offline
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It's interesting that you continue to focus on others rather than yourself. Very interesting.


what? Hey, nobody said it was my turn on the couch, 'It all started when I was 4........'

Last edited by outlierrn; 01-14-2009 at 03:09 AM.
  #47  
Old 01-14-2009, 05:21 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Ah, kinda like Curly, Larry and Moe, eh?
No, I'd say that all 3 Stooges spring from the Id.

Big time.
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  #48  
Old 01-15-2009, 12:18 AM
Nametag Nametag is offline
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You people are so easily misled by a little Hollywood razzle-dazzle -- cast Judy Garland, name her character "Dorothy," and you're all convinced that she's a girl...
  #49  
Old 01-15-2009, 06:52 AM
ch4rl3s ch4rl3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outlierrn
Originally Posted by Terrifel
When Oz fails to fulfill his promise, she is ultimately rescued by Glinda the Good (an underage Saigon prostitute) and returns home with the Ruby Slippers (gonorrhea).

The problem I have with this is that Glinda is 53 years old. Talk about loving you long time.
Come on. It isn't possible that's the ONLY problem you have with it...
The Wizard of Oz came out in 1939. The Vietnam war started in 1959. The three people named as character analogs for Dorothy's companions were non-entities in 1939, (two of them being teenagers, and the other in Business School.) Nixon was only two years out of Law School. Agent Orange wasn't introduced until 1946. If the movie really is a statement on Vietnam, and not just a wonderfully tortured imagining from Terrifel's own mind, (bravo, by the way,) then it's the most prescient bit of film-making I've ever seen. (Bladerunner being a close second. Wait, this isn't the time travel thread... Forget I claimed to have seen that future.)

And although the "parallels" are blatently pasted on... no, scratch that... because they are pasted on, it brings up the question: how much of "psychoanalysis" is more a statement on the mind of the analyst than on the mind of the subject? It always seems to be about sex. Isn't this just a reflection that the most sexually perverse people go into psychology?

That being said... Holy cow, that movie was about sex... nothing but sex from beginning to end.
The multi-colored horse? Dorothy's desire for a "non-white Stallion" to service her.
Her little dog? Sometimes a dog is just a dog, but that makes it beastiality.
The flying monkeys? OMG. That is so perverse I can't even go on...

(tongue firmly in cheek.)
  #50  
Old 01-15-2009, 07:19 AM
don't ask don't ask is offline
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Such foolishness. You have simply attempted to interpret the superficial presentation that the movie has made to you as if the trauma created were not hidden by layer upon layer of psychic obfuscation.

An alternative cognizance is available to the therapist willing to use their analytical ability to delve deeper than the conscious or even sub-conscious self justifications of the patient.

Looking for a source of deeper pre-conscious motivation may I suggest that we use the additional material created when the movie was written and sync the movie with a copy of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon......
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