Am I a good and decent person?

[DSYoungEsq]

Originally Posted by Shodan

Post!

Regards,
Shodan

I thought four-letter words were no longer allowed in Teh Pit?

[Leaper]

Originally Posted by aldiboronti

Don't feel too secure. The wheel of fortune will turn, as it always does, especially in politics. Reality hasn't 'changed', it's just politics as usual.

Well, you can't deny that the country has moved to the left in certain important ways, and that it's hard to imagine that it'll move back significantly in those areas. Race relations, for example. And even in abortion/religion; even with the general opposition to abortion that still exists, the fact that it has any support at all, and that not ALL providers are being harassed and shot at in the streets, is pretty significant. Ditto the fact that people can actually be some religion other than Judeo-Christian and live peacefully in a good plurality of places.

It's possible that something will happen one day to make, say, the forced institutionalization of homosexuals societally acceptable again. But it's hard for me to imagine what it is. So I think at least SOME of elucidator's statement was justified. I guess it'd depend on what your definition and criteria for "the nation moving to the left" means.

[elucidator]

Well, really, just so much gossamer and whimsey for criteria, signs and portents which may not, in fact, signify much of anything. Wholesale massacre of an election, public polling that ranks Republicans just slightly more popular than syphillis....

[gonzomax]

Originally Posted by 42fish

Yes, it's just too bad they can't take a page from your book and elevate the discourse with words like 'faggy.'

I called no person faggy.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by gonzomax

I called no person faggy.

No, you just use the word to describe something as "weird, or stupid", or whatever, then whine that you didn't mean it THAT WAY.

Way to be a weasel!

[mswas]

Originally Posted by Miller

Well, you need to keep one thing in mind. BrainGlutton is an idiot. So I wouldn't take anything he says too seriously.

Miller laying down the common sense!

Sarahfeena I don't know you in real life so for what I know you might be the world's nastiest serial killer, but based on the posts I've read I think you're a good person. I think that anyone that doesn't have some reservations about abortion has a bit of trouble with their moral compass. Abortion is fucking disgusting.

[RedFury]

On the other hand, crack babies are amongst mankind's most uplifting experiences.

[XT]

Only when ground really fine and snorted through the left nostril...

Originally Posted by gonzomax

I called no person faggy.

Seriously Gonz...how would you know? You are too stupid to figure out what you have written, let alone bright enough to understand how others read your, um, posts.

-XT

[Nzinga, Seated]

Originally Posted by mswas

Miller laying down the common sense!

Sarahfeena I don't know you in real life so for what I know you might be the world's nastiest serial killer, but based on the posts I've read I think you're a good person. I think that anyone that doesn't have some reservations about abortion has a bit of trouble with their moral compass. Abortion is fucking disgusting.

I like Sarafeena. I also have no reservations about abortion.

[Heffalump and Roo]

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena

I forgot to answer Heffalump and Roo's questions:

Thanks for remembering.

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena

No, I don't think you can really control the culture of a message board. It may change over time, but you can't direct it to go one way or another.

Depends on the "you", I guess. It seems that at least one person or a few have changed this place, either some or dramatically, depending on your viewpoint.

But yes, given the way this message board functions, a given poster probably can't do all that much to change the culture here. On the other hand, you've pointed out one poster who is changing the culture. . . just not in the way you want it to be changed.

And you may have a bigger influence than you realize. Perhaps the fact that you post less here has given rise to more people becoming emboldened to take more extreme views. If they knew they had to argue with you, they might have thought twice about it.

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena

If I had an alternative, do you think I'd be here going boo hoo hoo I'm all sad about this place? There are other places I go for other reasons, but for real debate and current events, I don't have another place I think is better.

So do you think the place has changed, or your expectation of it? Or both?

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Heffalump and Roo

Thanks for remembering.


Depends on the "you", I guess. It seems that at least one person or a few have changed this place, either some or dramatically, depending on your viewpoint.

But yes, given the way this message board functions, a given poster probably can't do all that much to change the culture here. On the other hand, you've pointed out one poster who is changing the culture. . . just not in the way you want it to be changed.

I guess what I meant is that you can only really have control over your own behavior...you can't control how people react. My issue here isn't so much with bias, it's with the sweeping, unsupported generalizations (coming from both sides), which really shouldn't be tolerated in GD.

And you may have a bigger influence than you realize. Perhaps the fact that you post less here has given rise to more people becoming emboldened to take more extreme views. If they knew they had to argue with you, they might have thought twice about it.

Well I doubt that, but thanks for saying so.

So do you think the place has changed, or your expectation of it? Or both?

You know, I'm not sure now that you mention it. Maybe it's a bit of burnout on my part.

I went from exasperation at myself for writing such a sucky OP to general embarrassment about the whole thing. But as long as I made it about me, let me ask another question...when I see the words "good and decent," I don't think of someone above and beyond normal people, but rather, just regular, every day goodness and decency, as most likely descibes the vast majority of posters here. One of the thing that continues to amaze me about this place is how it seems to describe a much more divided America than I thought there was. I know that they yak on the TV and the radio about the culture wars, but I really don't see it that much in my everyday life. Living where I do, I'm around people all the time who are very different from me...different races, religions, political stripes, etc. I'm dear, close friends with all kinds of these people. The least you can say about most of them is that they are good and decent. But here, people seem to categorize good and decent based solely on who you vote for, perhaps not even knowing the reason why. Is this really how it works out there, or is it a function of the internet, and people being more blunt than they might be in real life? Of course, I'm pretty moderate, so my viewpoint on this might be a little different on this, but I very rarely come across anyone with views that I find so abhorrent that I wouldn't be willing to associate with them. (Not that there aren't views I wouldn't be able to tolerate, I just don't run across people who hold them.) Here, I get the impression that people quite deliberately avoid others who hold differing political or religious views. Is this impression accurate, or am I seeing things?

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Originally Posted by xtisme

Seriously Gonz...how would you know? You are too stupid to figure out what you have written, let alone bright enough to understand how others read your, um, posts.

-XT

Gee, that was just as clever and refreshing as the 60 previous times you said that in the thread you devoted to the subject.

Are you really that much cooler if you ride in the back seat of the short bus?

[XT]

You tell me Hentor...you seem to know more about it.

-XT

[elucidator]

Originally Posted by xtisme

You tell me Hentor...you seem to know more about it.

-XT

Ooooh, snap! Wilde?

[XT]

Buck...

-XT

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by elucidator

Ooooh, snap! Wilde?

Reubens. Well, Herman anyway.

[elucidator]

You know, he never hired a lawyer in that porn-theater, monkey-spanking case. He figured he could get himself off! (fud-a-bump, ting!)

[DSYoungEsq]

No one will confuse what xtisme has for rapier-like wit.

No one will confuse what gonzomax demonstrates for sharp-as-tacks intelligence.

They are well-suited for a snipe fest.

[Heffalump and Roo]

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena

I guess what I meant is that you can only really have control over your own behavior...you can't control how people react. My issue here isn't so much with bias, it's with the sweeping, unsupported generalizations (coming from both sides), which really shouldn't be tolerated in GD.

If you can only control your own behavior, then who shouldn't be tolerating the sweeping, unsupported generalizations in GD?

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena

Well I doubt that, but thanks for saying so.

If modesty doesn't allow you to accept this, then how about if one or a few other moderate conservatives left here, could that make a difference as to how the conversations here take shape?

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena

But here, people seem to categorize good and decent based solely on who you vote for, perhaps not even knowing the reason why. Is this really how it works out there, or is it a function of the internet, and people being more blunt than they might be in real life?

A bit of both, I suspect. GD is a place that, by its very nature, is a polarized place. People are debating different sides to an issue. If everyone agreed on everything, there wouldn't be anything to debate. Some people who are attracted to that, might be attracted for the reason that they hold very strong views that they can't express in real life.

In real life, do some people consider other people as less good and decent if they don't hold the same views? Sure. I've seen this in some people who hold very rigid religious views. They see me as less good and decent than they are because I don't hold their views and treat me accordingly.

Conversely, in most areas of my life where I meet with people, our connection comes from something that isn't so polarized, so our views on most subjects don't matter. If I join a gardening club, I would spend most of my time talking about gardening and probably wouldn't discuss my political or religious views. And it would work the same way on a gardening forum, for the most part.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Originally Posted by xtisme

You tell me Hentor...you seem to know more about it.

-XT

It looks like about two hours elapsed between my post and the above retort. xt, I'm going to be generous and assume you weren't working to come up with that one for the entire two hours.

On the other hand, given the nature of the message board, there's no real time limit for replying. Next time, you might want to let your response percolate just a touch more. This one was just a tad weak.

[gonzomax]

Originally Posted by xtisme

Only when ground really fine and snorted through the left nostril...



Seriously Gonz...how would you know? You are too stupid to figure out what you have written, let alone bright enough to understand how others read your, um, posts.

-XT

XT is proving my point again. Very good and very predictable. Children like you are soooooo predictable.

[XT]

Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq

No one will confuse what xtisme has for rapier-like wit.

No, probably not. Of course, your own isn't exactly that sharp either.

Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian

It looks like about two hours elapsed between my post and the above retort. xt, I'm going to be generous and assume you weren't working to come up with that one for the entire two hours.

Well, that's really good of you Hentor! I appreciate your generosity. As it happens I am, sadly, unable to sit by the computer waiting breathlessly to reply to every post in every thread that I'm involved in...especially silly one's like this. I know that is probably confusing to you...but that RL stuff intrudes from time to time.

But I really do appreciate your generosity...I didn't think you had it in you, old boy!

On the other hand, given the nature of the message board, there's no real time limit for replying. Next time, you might want to let your response percolate just a touch more. This one was just a tad weak.

I will certainly strive to keep that in mind. Thanks for the advice...as always, it's been a pleasure chatting with you!

-XT

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Originally Posted by xtisme

Well, that's really good of you Hentor! I appreciate your generosity. As it happens I am, sadly, unable to sit by the computer waiting breathlessly to reply to every post in every thread that I'm involved in...especially silly one's like this. I know that is probably confusing to you...but that RL stuff intrudes from time to time.

Not surprisingly, I don't think you got the joke.

[Sarahfeena]

I wouldn't normally do this, but considering my failure to make the point I wanted to in the OP and the fact that it's just degenerated into an insult war, maybe a mod could close it and put it out of its misery.

[Heffalump and Roo]

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena

I wouldn't normally do this, but considering my failure to make the point I wanted to in the OP

Sorry to hear this. I was interested in hearing your thoughts.

[elucidator]

Its not about being good and/or decent. You're nice. I'm betting your husband is nice, too, in a manly sort of way. Kids are probably nice too, though its hard to be sure, I've known families of five being three pussycats and two rattlesnakes.

I'm not nice, this is not the way of my people.

Its kind of like tidy people. I go into a tidy persons home, I feel instantly constricted and bound. waltzing drunk in a mine field, I cannot move naturally, but consciously, carefully, I feel like I have to go outside to fart.

We not-nice don't want to hurt anybody, its just that we cannot be bothered to sand off the edges of our words, its tiresome and cramps our style. We prefer our own, of course, where snide is free and chops are cheerfully busted. And we have a perfectly sensible reason for that: we like it.

If you gave it some thought, you might be able to come up with something I said to you that made you mad, or hurt your feelings. Because you're nice, and I'm not. But I beg you to consider all the stuff I didn't say to you. And many others of us in the not-nice tribe have, no doubt, stifled their snark or wait in ambush for a better target.

So there is a quality in you that is being respected, even though it may not be evident.

You're nice.

[Gfactor]

The OP has asked me to close this thread. I will do so in 24 hours unless I hear objections.

Gfactor
Pit Moderator

[XT]

Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian

Not surprisingly, I don't think you got the joke.

Surprisingly I did. Not surprisingly I don't think you got my own humor there. While you seemingly attribute my own supposed denseness to your assessment of my stupidity however, I attribute your own failure to the fact that my sense of humor is often obscure, with myriad inside jokes shared with my small circle of friends on this board and off.

-XT

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Heffalump and Roo

If you can only control your own behavior, then who shouldn't be tolerating the sweeping, unsupported generalizations in GD?

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your post when I asked for the thread to be closed. I'm not sure I understand this question, though. It would seem to me that anyone with a bit of an open mind and who is willing to use logic wouldn't tolerate it.

If modesty doesn't allow you to accept this, then how about if one or a few other moderate conservatives left here, could that make a difference as to how the conversations here take shape?

I'm not sure...I actually think that most of the moderate conservatives already have made the decision not to post in GD.

A bit of both, I suspect. GD is a place that, by its very nature, is a polarized place. People are debating different sides to an issue. If everyone agreed on everything, there wouldn't be anything to debate. Some people who are attracted to that, might be attracted for the reason that they hold very strong views that they can't express in real life.

In real life, do some people consider other people as less good and decent if they don't hold the same views? Sure. I've seen this in some people who hold very rigid religious views. They see me as less good and decent than they are because I don't hold their views and treat me accordingly.

Conversely, in most areas of my life where I meet with people, our connection comes from something that isn't so polarized, so our views on most subjects don't matter. If I join a gardening club, I would spend most of my time talking about gardening and probably wouldn't discuss my political or religious views. And it would work the same way on a gardening forum, for the most part.

I guess you're right that in general, we don't necessarily even know what our friends' political viewpoints are, and clearly GD is an opportunity to express them outright. And this is bound to create clashes of philosophy and outlook. I guess I just don't understand the black-and-whiteness of the opinions. Maybe my mind just doesn't work quite that way.

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by elucidator

Its not about being good and/or decent. You're nice. I'm betting your husband is nice, too, in a manly sort of way. Kids are probably nice too, though its hard to be sure, I've known families of five being three pussycats and two rattlesnakes.

Ha ha. I guess we are nice. My husband definitely not as much as me, and as far as he is, it's more boyish than manly, but I guess I get your point. My kids we have yet to determine...they are too young to really know for sure. But I come from a family of rattlesnakes, if you can believe it.

I'm not nice, this is not the way of my people.

Its kind of like tidy people. I go into a tidy persons home, I feel instantly constricted and bound. waltzing drunk in a mine field, I cannot move naturally, but consciously, carefully, I feel like I have to go outside to fart.

We not-nice don't want to hurt anybody, its just that we cannot be bothered to sand off the edges of our words, its tiresome and cramps our style. We prefer our own, of course, where snide is free and chops are cheerfully busted. And we have a perfectly sensible reason for that: we like it.

If you gave it some thought, you might be able to come up with something I said to you that made you mad, or hurt your feelings. Because you're nice, and I'm not. But I beg you to consider all the stuff I didn't say to you. And many others of us in the not-nice tribe have, no doubt, stifled their snark or wait in ambush for a better target.

So there is a quality in you that is being respected, even though it may not be evident.

You're nice.

Oh, sure, plenty of people here have made me mad. Hurt feelings, maybe not so much, but sure, I have, you know, emotions just like anyone. My point wasn't that it was about me and my delicate feelings, though. You're saying here that you can't sand the edge off your words...to me, what that means is that you're going to say what you think without worrying about what people think about it. Which I can respect, of course. What that means to me, though, is that when you say that a person isn't good and decent because of a certain politial opinion, that's what you really mean. And that's what I don't get. I don't get really believing a person is evil based on their stance on abortion (and, incidentally, that means a pro-lifer believing that YOU are evil, as well as vice-versa). I don't know if this is due to my "niceness," but I can't imagine being that rigid on the subject, at least from a political standpoint.

P.S. I don't think I'm supposed to say this, but I'm kind of drunk right now, so I hope that made sense!

[NinetyWt]

I don't get really believing a person is evil based on their stance on abortion

This makes perfect sense to me. I'm puzzled over the same thing, myself.

[tomndebb]

I guess I should have opened this thread earlier. It is always amusing to see Shodan libeling me with his sins.

Originally Posted by Shodan

You are dealing with a lot of extremists here, and more than that, with extremists who think of themselves as moderate. Their positions are obviously and unassailably right, and therefore anyone who deviates from the group-think even slightly has to be doing so out of malice. BrainGlutton does it, tomndebb does it, Der Trihs does it, most of the Usual Suspects do it as their stock in trade.

[Zoe]

Sarahfeena, I've been able to maintain a healthy relationship with or attitude toward several Dopers who have conservative viewpoints. Shodan and Starving Artist are two of them. There are others. It happened when I could see beyond their politics to something else in their lives that was of enduring value.

I don't dislike you, but I feel that I don't know you. You come across to me as very sensitive to be posting in the Pit. You took offense once when someone else and I used the word "flounce" to describe your possible impending exit in some way. Yes, we were goading you, but "flounce" is not exactly a big time insult.

...Zoe seems to be intentionally hurtful here...Certainly, I never had a teacher who was condescending, preachy, sarcastic and mean, and yet that's how Zoe comes across on this message board.

I believe that you truly see me this way. Do you believe that I am that way to all Dopers in my behavior or that all Dopers see me from the same point of view? (It isn't important that you answer to me.)

I can understand why you would see these traits in me. I have a tendency to be crabby and outspoken.

This week I had throat surgery, sore tendons, and pneumonia. Now get off of my lawn!

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Zoe

Sarahfeena, I've been able to maintain a healthy relationship with or attitude toward several Dopers who have conservative viewpoints. Shodan and Starving Artist are two of them. There are others. It happened when I could see beyond their politics to something else in their lives that was of enduring value.

Do you think that it's rare for a conservative to have something else in their lives that is of enduring value? I'm not sure what kind of conservative you find in your neck of the woods, but I'm guessing that they have a tendency to be less moderate than I am, so maybe it's harder for you to find a meeting of the minds with them? Of course Shodan and Starving Artist are much more conservative than I am, too, so maybe that's not a factor?

I don't dislike you, but I feel that I don't know you. You come across to me as very sensitive to be posting in the Pit. You took offense once when someone else and I used the word "flounce" to describe your possible impending exit in some way. Yes, we were goading you, but "flounce" is not exactly a big time insult.

I'm not too sensitive for the pit...the pit is meant to be a place where you can offend people, and I got offended. Maybe offended isn't even the word...I got pissed off. So what? I doubt you said it because you thought it was going to make me chuckle and give me sweet dreams that night. I told you to fuck off, as I recall, and I would probably say it again in the same circumstance. I don't see where any of that is inappropriate or overly-sensitive pit behavior.

I believe that you truly see me this way. Do you believe that I am that way to all Dopers in my behavior or that all Dopers see me from the same point of view? (It isn't important that you answer to me.)

I can understand why you would see these traits in me. I have a tendency to be crabby and outspoken.

This week I had throat surgery, sore tendons, and pneumonia. Now get off of my lawn!

I hope your surgery went well and you're on the road to recovery!

[DSYoungEsq]

Originally Posted by xtisme

Surprisingly I did. Not surprisingly I don't think you got my own humor there. While you seemingly attribute my own supposed denseness to your assessment of my stupidity however, I attribute your own failure to the fact that my sense of humor is often obscure, with myriad inside jokes shared with my small circle of friends on this board and off.

-XT

I didn't know multiple personalities were described as a "small circle of friends" these days.

[Sarahfeena]

GFactor, I'm happy to have you leave the thread open, but I'm curious, why the waiting period?

[XT]

Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq

I didn't know multiple personalities were described as a "small circle of friends" these days.

Well then your day is complete...you've learned something today. As have I...that being that DSYoungEsq is a master of projection.

-XT

[Gfactor]

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena

GFactor, I'm happy to have you leave the thread open, but I'm curious, why the waiting period?

I've been experimenting with this approach, especially in cases where the OP requests the thread to be closed.

1. I see no reason to close a thread like this immediately in the first place;

2. Sometimes the OP requests a thread closure because the it backfired. Traditionally, those threads haven't been closed in the Pit. I intend to continue that tradition, but as I've said elsewhere, the fact that the thread turned against the OP doesn't mean it has to stay open forever, so this is a middle course. If people think the thread should stay open, they've got a chance to object; if they just want to say something before it closes, they've got a shot at it.

3. It saves me the trouble of reading every post in a long-ish thread like this just to make sure there's not some reason to keep it open.

Here's my current thinking on thread closures, generally. These are not rules at all, they are just an explanation of how I think about requests to close or reopen a thread.

1. They are procedural. In most cases, nobody has a right to have a thread open or closed. It's about convenience and efficiency. There are some special cases, in which there may be a great reason to close a thread, but in most cases, those reasons are based on some more substantive concern.

2. Starting a thread that gets closed isn't going to draw any sort of warning from me unless there's something else going on. I might warn somebody for trolling or opening a thread that I've specifically told them not to open, but beyond that, it's just a procedural thing.

3. I'm always willing to reconsider a thread closing or refusal to close a thread. As I said, it's procedural, and it's not a big deal.

4. I usually start with the assumption that the thread stays open and need to be convinced that it needs to be closed. But this is a procedural assumption, I don't think there is a right answer in most of these cases.

5. If I close a thread, that doesn't imply that another thread can't be started on the same topic.

6. Unless there's a good reason to close a thread immediately, I try to give folks an opportunity to make that last post or convince me to leave the thread open.

7. I've got limited time and attention, so if a thread is very long, I'm more inclined to close it, subject to all of the other stuff I've said.

[Sarahfeena]

Thanks for your thoughts, GFactor...looks like this thread came to some good use after all!

I actually kind of like the idea of the waiting period. We've all had the experience of wanting to post sonething to a thread and finding it closed. And it makes sense to let posters make a case for keeping it open. I was just curious because I hadn't seen it before.

[DSYoungEsq]

Originally Posted by xtisme

Well then your day is complete...you've learned something today. As have I...that being that DSYoungEsq is a master of projection.

-XT

Who is this DSYoungEsq of whom you speak?

[thirdname]

You're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, people like you.

[Zoe]

I'm not sure what kind of conservative you find in your neck of the woods, but I'm guessing that they have a tendency to be less moderate than I am, so maybe it's harder for you to find a meeting of the minds with them?

Most of the conservatives I know are through my club and went to Vanderbilt. Since Nashville is a liberal city, the subject of politics is generally avoided at social functions through the club. But most of the people that I know there and elsewhere around here are Democrats and liberals. I do have one friend who quietly harbored some racist feelings that came out all at once and that led to a three year silence between us. I sometimes wonder why she calls herself a Democrat. We've been friends for over sixty years.

I've also known one or two conservatives through the church I was attending. I was a member of the Missions Team. At one of the meetings of the team, I wore a pair of earrings that were dangling peace signs. Before beginning the meeting, the Chairman turned and said, "There are a lot of good things going on in Iraq that we never hear about." At first I couldn't think why he was directing this comment to me and what had prompted it. Then I remembered the peace earrings. He was hearing a conversation that I wasn't having. To give him the benefit of the peace that was symbolized, I said nothing.

I don't argue much except with close friends except here at SDMB. The Sixties, Seventies, and Eighties were different.

In the Nashville area in general, I feel reasonably certain that we probably have all sorts of conservatives. I just don't know all types.

Shodan, Starving Artist and I don't have much of a meeting of the mind on politics. (I do miss that grand person who was William F. Buckley.) I read something that Shodan wrote once that told me more about his character than anything I've read that he's posted since. With Starving Artist, there is more to him than he lets on. But why should my opinion of someone be determined only by his politics?

I was genuinely surprised that you got pissed at the use of flounce or flounced. It is a little like saying "She will turn on her heel." I would feel free to use it in any of the forums here -- not just the Pit. The over-reaction from you was not that you threw the f-bomb back at me for it, but that you actually did "go with sudden determination." If you are going to be offended by my ordinary language so that you curse me and leave, how are we to reach a point where we can communicate?

If I wanted to be picky about language, I could be offended about your reference to my "neck of the woods" and your assumption that people who are conservative here are less moderate than you are.

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Zoe

Most of the conservatives I know are through my club and went to Vanderbilt. Since Nashville is a liberal city, the subject of politics is generally avoided at social functions through the club. But most of the people that I know there and elsewhere around here are Democrats and liberals. I do have one friend who quietly harbored some racist feelings that came out all at once and that led to a three year silence between us. I sometimes wonder why she calls herself a Democrat. We've been friends for over sixty years.

And if I wanted to be picky about language, I could take exception to the idea that only Conservatives are crass enough to talk about politics, or that Democrats are never racist. We could play that game all day if we deliberately try to put the worst possible light on others' words.

I've also known one or two conservatives through the church I was attending. I was a member of the Missions Team. At one of the meetings of the team, I wore a pair of earrings that were dangling peace signs. Before beginning the meeting, the Chairman turned and said, "There are a lot of good things going on in Iraq that we never hear about." At first I couldn't think why he was directing this comment to me and what had prompted it. Then I remembered the peace earrings. He was hearing a conversation that I wasn't having. To give him the benefit of the peace that was symbolized, I said nothing.

I don't argue much except with close friends except here at SDMB. The Sixties, Seventies, and Eighties were different.

In the Nashville area in general, I feel reasonably certain that we probably have all sorts of conservatives. I just don't know all types.

Well, I'm not sure each "type" has a label. Certainly here on the SDMB we see people who wouldn't be able to go down a checklist of the Dem or Pub platforms and check off all the boxes.

Shodan, Starving Artist and I don't have much of a meeting of the mind on politics. (I do miss that grand person who was William F. Buckley.) I read something that Shodan wrote once that told me more about his character than anything I've read that he's posted since. With Starving Artist, there is more to him than he lets on. But why should my opinion of someone be determined only by his politics?

Your last sentence here is exactly the reason for this thread. I don't know why. For me, it's not even the smallest consideration. As you said above, you can't necessarily assume a person's inner character based on it, anyway. Some Democrats are even racist! And some Republicans are happy to help the less fortunate. You'll have to trust me on that.

I was genuinely surprised that you got pissed at the use of flounce or flounced. It is a little like saying "She will turn on her heel." I would feel free to use it in any of the forums here -- not just the Pit. The over-reaction from you was not that you threw the f-bomb back at me for it, but that you actually did "go with sudden determination." If you are going to be offended by my ordinary language so that you curse me and leave, how are we to reach a point where we can communicate?

Surely you understand that context is everything, Zoe. Something very negative was said to me. I lost interest in that thread, as my attention was directed towards how I wanted to respond to it. THAT was why I pretty much stopped posting the the thread, not anything you said. What you said was a REACTION to my leaving, and saying that I "flounced" was not the only thing you said. If I recall correctly, you also said that I was crying and my chin was trembling, none of which was true. All of that was a mis-characterization of my reaction, and that was what got you the f-bomb. If you're going to make up lies about me, you can expect it again.

If I wanted to be picky about language, I could be offended about your reference to my "neck of the woods" and your assumption that people who are conservative here are less moderate than you are.

You could. But I'm pretty moderate...most conservatives everywhere are less moderate than I am...it's not that wild of an assumption.

[j666]

Originally Posted by Captain Carrot

If you think this place is harsh, there are a number of places that would make you cry.

Why?

Because the posters are harsh or cruel? Unlikely, because, as many have noted, it's just a message board.

Because the posts are boring, uninformed, and universally poorly spelled? I've become inured to that; I'd just move on.

Because the posters display a herd mentality and quickly circle the wagons against a new idea? Actually, whenever I see that, it does make me sad. People dragging a wonderful tool for communication, information, and entertainment down to the level of a particularly parochial school-yard.

But the run-of-the-mill smug and self-satisfied pigeon-holing of others with snide little comments that are much less clever or entertaining than the poster thinks? That only makes me sad here.

Don't you remember when the level of discourse in GD was so good that even long-time members wouldn't post there? The posts were reasoned and insightful, and so well-written.

[ivn1188]

Originally Posted by j666

Because the posts are boring, uninformed, and universally poorly spelled? I've become inured to that; I'd just move on.

Ur a fckin retarted. Teh definition of universally means all = bad speillng, & irregardless u shuld stop nitpcking throw away stuff just 2 b a dick.

[elucidator]

Yeah! And you totally misspelled "injured"!

[Zoe]

Sarafeena: Well, I'm not sure each "type" has a label. Certainly here on the SDMB we see people who wouldn't be able to go down a checklist of the Dem or Pub platforms and check off all the boxes.

So what did you mean when you said the following:

SarahfeenaI'm not sure what kind of conservative you find in your neck of the woods, but I'm guessing that they have a tendency to be less moderate than I am, so maybe it's harder for you to find a meeting of the minds with them?

And why would you think they would be less moderate than you? I think maybe I have asked you this before and you didn't respond.

At any rate, I see virtually no difference in your use of "kind of conservative" and my use of "all sorts of conservatives" or the use of the word "type." But I didn't use the word label. You use labels. I use labels. They are a simplification and a convenience. They are also inadequate. That is the nature of language. What's your point?

Sarahfeena: And if I wanted to be picky about language, I could take exception to the idea that only Conservatives are crass enough to talk about politics.

Look at the context. Read it again:

[quote]Zoe: Most of the conservatives I know are through my club and went to Vanderbilt. Since Nashville is a liberal city, the subject of politics is generally avoided at social functions through the club.[/b] But most of the people that I know there and elsewhere around here are Democrats and liberals.

In other words, since the club in a mixture of conservatives and liberals, the subject of politics is generally avoided at social functions. I think that is considered the polite thing to do whether you are Southern or Mid-Western. So is the topic of religion. Correct me if I'm wrong about the Mid-West.

Was there anything that you really wanted to work out between us so that we can get along or do you just want to try to find more to criticize in what I say? You can continue to do that easily by taking things out of context and seeing evil intent where there is none. Or you can put down your sword.

And thanks for your wishes for my health. This is my 12th day on antibiotics, I think. Monday was the first day I have felt human. The surgery was only moderately successful and my surgeon has been out of town since. Morale: Don't have surgery when you have pneumonia.

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by Zoe

So what did you mean when you said the following:



And why would you think they would be less moderate than you? I think maybe I have asked you this before and you didn't respond.

I already said that most people who call themselves conservative and vote Republican are less moderate than me. I have gleaned that from my interactions with people and reading their posts on message boards such as this one. While I call myself a conservative, it's mostly because I feel my viewpoint on fiscal policy puts me in that camp. I'm not much of social conservative at all. I also don't strictly vote either party, but tend to switch around depending on the candidate and situation. Tennessee being a consistently red state, I took a leap of logic in assuming that most of the Republicans are more conservative and loyal to the Republican party than I. That is what I meant.

At any rate, I see virtually no difference in your use of "kind of conservative" and my use of "all sorts of conservatives" or the use of the word "type." But I didn't use the word label. You use labels. I use labels. They are a simplification and a convenience. They are also inadequate. That is the nature of language. What's your point?

What was your point? You were the one who brought up "types" of Conservatives, not me.

Look at the context. Read it again:

Originally Posted by Zoe

Most of the conservatives I know are through my club and went to Vanderbilt. Since Nashville is a liberal city, the subject of politics is generally avoided at social functions through the club. But most of the people that I know there and elsewhere around here are Democrats and liberals.

OK, I read it again. The word "since" is still in there. "Since Nashville is a liberal city, the subject of politics is generally avoided at social functions through the club." (Emphasis mine.) You statement implies that the liberalness is the reason that politics is not discussed, due to your use of the word "since."

In other words, since the club in a mixture of conservatives and liberals, the subject of politics is generally avoided at social functions. I think that is considered the polite thing to do whether you are Southern or Mid-Western. So is the topic of religion. Correct me if I'm wrong about the Mid-West.

You did not say before that the club has a mixture of conservatives and liberals. If that is the context you are referring to, maybe you could explain to me how I might know that context from your statement?

Was there anything that you really wanted to work out between us so that we can get along or do you just want to try to find more to criticize in what I say? You can continue to do that easily by taking things out of context and seeing evil intent where there is none. Or you can put down your sword.

Why should I want to work out anything between us? You certainly don't seem motivated in that direction. You came into this thread, brought up being picky about language, and showed me an example of where you might take offense in what I had written, if you were so inclined. Since you surely were doing that with helpful and generous intent, I thought maybe I might do the same for you. It's just two people helping each other.

And thanks for your wishes for my health. This is my 12th day on antibiotics, I think. Monday was the first day I have felt human. The surgery was only moderately successful and my surgeon has been out of town since. Morale: Don't have surgery when you have pneumonia.

That seems like good advice...I can't imagine what your surgeon was thinking!