Ladies, is there any way a guy can ask you out "Dutch"?

[Shakes]

So I had a friend over for dinner last night. The subject comes up of this lady at work. She's a delivery gal'. Every time she comes in; she makes it a point of chatting my friend up.

According to my friend; she almost always makes it a point of saying that she's single. (I don't know the girl; personally, but boy! is she a looker!)

We were debating what would be the best way for him to ask this girl out. There's a problem tho'. He is only able to spend about $30 a week on "fun" stuff. That's it. The rest go towards bills.

The Bright side to all this is this is just a temporary situation. The reason why he is so broke is because he had a nasty divorce a few years ago and is paying off some sort of huge settlement. I don't know the exact details but in any case, he'll be over the hump in another year or so, with more freedom to do fun things in life.

So what's the best way to approach a Lady?

Hey look, I'm basically broke,but I'd love to date you anyway?

To be honest, I really don't care if my friend hooks up with this girl or not. It's an intresting dynamic. I'm more intrested in what women think of a situation like this.

[Maastricht]

Jeez, ask her out for a cup of coffee already. That ought to set him back less then a full night's dinner would.

[Odesio]

When you go out for a first date you want to put your best foot forward. Asking her to go Dutch on the first date, the date you asked her on, is not a great way to make a positive impression. If she offers to pay for half of it that's super, but, even then, I'd just foot the bill anyway. If money is that much of an issue then perhaps another activity that is less taxing on the old pocketbook is in order.

Odesio

[don't ask]

Next time she says that she is single he should say, "so am I, how about we go out so you can buy me a coffee."

[alexandra]

I would never assume that I was being paid for (tbh, I wouldn't want to be unless I knew we were going to do it again and I could pay for the next one), but if your friend's worried, why not go to a classy bar or cafe?

I know a girl whose date suggested they go for a meal and then asked her if she could pay for all of it, and didn't even donate a couple of coins for the tip. She didn't write him off!

[Small Hen]

Any smart girl brings money to a date, but there's not really any classy way to suggest she pays her way. Talking money while asking someone out is like talking salery while on a job interview. It doesn't leave a good impression.

I paid for both me and my blind date once, when his bank card didn't work at the movie theater. It wasn't the reason I consider it the worst date I'd ever had, but it wasn't in his favor. I might get a bit of flack for this, but I tend to think that the guy pays for the first date (unless the girl asked) and after that it's fair game.

[Shagnasty]

Your friend needs to gain some more creativity. The whole dinner and a movie thing is scripted and old. There are tons of free stuff to do no matter where you live. It could be hiking or a bike ride to a cool place. He could learn to make one excellent dish at home and show that off for a lot less than $30. If she really wants to spend time with him, then the money won't matter and a creative date beats the hell out of the typical date any day.

[StaudtCJ]

You could try something along the lines of "Hey, want to have a picnic? I'll bring the chicken (hotdogs, tofudogs, hamburgers, veggieburgers, whatever) and you bring the chips?" That would establish a "fair trade" thing, and still not come off as "I'm poor and need you to pay your own way". Most people I've known like bringing stuff to picnics/potlucks/home meals, and appreciate being asked. Picnics can also be very short or very long, generally take place outdoors (which can improve your chances of being chemically compatible), and have a low reciprocal-obligation feel. (By reciprocal obligation, I mean that some people think that if you took the lady out for drinks/movie/dinner/whatever, she has the obligation to kiss you goodbye/do something intimate. This varies by individual, society, and perceived commitment level.) By creating a picnic environment, you can also inject a "group" to the outing as required, including pets, friends, or someone or something else that enhances comfort level.

[CrazyCatLady]

Yeah, you can ask a girl out "Dutch," but only when you've gotten to the point you're comfortable talking about finances to that extent. The very first time you go out, not really knowing each other beyond chatting at work, isn't really the time for it. It's better, imo, to ask her to something that's lower-cost and lower time commitment the first time around. A cup of coffee (not at a place like Starbucks, but at a diner someplace) or something like that. Or one of my favorite low-cost dates has always been taking a Happy Meal to the park and eating on the swings.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

As a Netherlands-American, I'm preparing to get offended by the thread title.

Hang on, it'll take me a while to work up the necessary outrage. Just be prepared to have a sabot hurled at you.

[Captain Carrot]

Next the Minnesotans will say "bless your heart". (What, never heard of the Minnesota Dutch?)

[Electric Warrior]

I would be more comfortable with a first date where we each pay for our own meal/drink, because I think this takes off the pressure for romance or sex. If I think of something as less of a date per se and just a way to get together with a new person and get to know them, I'll feel more comfortable.

[ZipperJJ]

Why doesn't your friend skip doing "fun stuff" one week - so then he'll have $60 the next week?

I've never understood the "fun stuff" budget. When I was hardcore saving money, I never did anything fun, ever. I worked all day and stayed in all night saving money. I survived just fine. You don't owe it to yourself to have to spend money on frivolities each month or week. You owe it to yourself to get out of debt.

[lavenderviolet]

Yeah, I think the others are right. His options are either to save up for a few weeks so he has enough money to pay for them both or try to think of a date idea he can afford.
Back when I was single I used to offer to pay on first dates, but it made a nicer impression on me when the guy insisted on paying. If you are trying to impress her, it makes more sense to pay for her.

[aerodave]

Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan

As a Netherlands-American, I'm preparing to get offended by the thread title.

Hang on, it'll take me a while to work up the necessary outrage. Just be prepared to have a sabot hurled at you.

Well, asking someone out Dutch is better than offering to pay then welching on the deal. If that happened to me, i'd feel totally gypped. That's no better than being an Indian giver if you ask me.

[Thudlow Boink]

Originally Posted by Electric Warrior

I would be more comfortable with a first date where we each pay for our own meal/drink, because I think this takes off the pressure for romance or sex. If I think of something as less of a date per se and just a way to get together with a new person and get to know them, I'll feel more comfortable.

I've heard that it's never a good idea to spend a lot on a first date, for precisely this reason—it can lead to pressure or a feeling of obligation—as well as because of the precedent it sets.

[Thudlow Boink]

Originally Posted by ZipperJJ

I've never understood the "fun stuff" budget. When I was hardcore saving money, I never did anything fun, ever. I worked all day and stayed in all night saving money. I survived just fine. You don't owe it to yourself to have to spend money on frivolities each month or week. You owe it to yourself to get out of debt.

That depends on how much you value getting "over the hump" as soon as possible vs. making your life more bearable in the meantime. As long as you're not digging yourself deeper into debt with your "fun stuff," or neglecting any obligations, it's a matter of personal preference, where everyone has to find their own balance.

[Sam Lowry]

I agree with most people here, there doesn't seem to be a good way to ask if you could go Dutch on the first date. It would be better to do something cheap or free for the first date or two- like go to a coffee shop, an art gallery, or on a walk through a nice park or something like that. Then for the second or third date ask if she wouldn't mind going Dutch.

[Claire Beauchamp]

A general rule of etiquette for EVERYONE is that if you invite someone to do something, the person doing the inviting does the paying. If someone asked me out on an obvious date-date to something out of his budget and then expected me to pay my portion, I would think it a little odd. Having said that, when I guy asks me out, I'm always prepared to pay my own way. And, there have been plenty of times when I've met up with someone semi-spontaneously and had a few drinks and paid for my own and not minded. I think it just depends on how formal the set-up and the venue is.

The best course, as others have suggested, would be to simply ask her to do something low-key and cheap. Lunch, Saturday coffee, etc. (I would avoid "drinks" because that can lead to an expectation of "dinner" if things are going well.) Or, go to the movies -- two tix to an afternoon matinee and drink and popcorn would be in that budget. Or ... there are always free or very-low-cost things to do - crafts fairs, concerts in the park, museums, flea markets, etc. etc. etc.

P.S. Do NOT ask her to "dinner" and then pull into McD's or some other cheap chain fast/fast-casual restaurant. Better you just do coffee than do that. If you want a cheap meal, look for authentic regional/ethnic -- where I live that would be barbecue, hot chicken, or Mexican / Thai / etc.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

He can spend $30 a week, right? And let's say a decent-but-not-crazy dinner would run you about $50 for a couple? (Around here that's a bit on the high side). So here's my plan for him:
Week 1: Spend $10 to download a computer game from Steam and that's your fun stuff for the week.
Week 2: "Hey, cute girl, wanna go out?" Be ready to spend up to $50 on dinner.
Week 3: If you spent more than $50 on dinner, don't spend as much this week.

Just call me Bernanke.

[Nava]

I'm from Spain, and for me the usual thing is "dutch." I got quite pissed off a couple times at Americans who did crap like not eat anything because they'd suddenly realized they hadn't brought enough money (to me that's both macho crap and stupid - you don't want me to pay, fine, but refusing a ten dollar loan... that directly told me those guys and me weren't compatible).

To me "wanna go see a movie" isn't an invitation in the sense that "wanna come to my house for dinner" is an invitation. The first one is... ehm... a proposal! That's the word.

[elfkin477]

It's summer, right? I hear that's not just a theoretical statement in other places right now. Go to the beach and pack a lunch.

[Rand Rover]

A loan is a great way to better align one's consumption with one's income. So, your friend could rack up some credit card debt wooing this lady and then pay it off once the divorce settlement monkey is off his back.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Rand Rover

A loan is a great way to better align one's consumption with one's income. So, your friend could rack up some credit card debt wooing this lady and then pay it off once the divorce settlement monkey is off his back.

Wow, excellent advice.

If someone's struggling to climb out of a big financial hole, the first thing i generally encourage them to do is take on more debt, at an interest rate of 15-30 percent per year.

[Cat Fight]

Originally Posted by Maastricht

Jeez, ask her out for a cup of coffee already. That ought to set him back less then a full night's dinner would.

I really think this is the best idea. Though honestly, two coffees and pastries could set you back $30+ at Starbucks. As others have said, there's no polite way to ask someone out on an actual date and tell them, beforehand or towards the end of the night, 'Oh yeah, you're going to have to cover your end.' (ETA Um... pun unintended.)

The only other sort of possibility I can see is saying something like 'A bunch of friends and I are going to [this event / movie / bar], you should come by.' Then he can get away with buying her a drink, and she'll probably buy one back. Might only work if he's 20-something, though and has a quality group of friends.

[Green Bean]

Cheap date idea: Are there any towns in your area that have free summer concerts or vintage car shows or whatever in the downtown area? Every Tuesday during the summer, my son and I get an Italian ice and go watch the bands. That would make a good cheap date, too.

Originally Posted by Captain Carrot

Next the Minnesotans will say "bless your heart". (What, never heard of the Minnesota Dutch?)

Or if he wants to go Pennsylvania Dutch, he could take her to a barn raising.

[handsomeharry]

Here's the solution: Get him to get the babe into a conversation. Say something like "I'd like to take you out, but I'm broke, big time. I'm stuck in this mess for about another year. If you can think of something cheap, let's do it!" Something like that, where she knows up front that he's broke, and that it would only be a temporary arrangement. This works two ways: If she likes him, she'll come up with a plan, or even pony up some bucks. Also, he's not going to cry if she doesn't accept, because he can't squire her about in style as he normally would, and he can always turn it around and say that he used the broke excuse to scare her off if she looks aghast when he mentioned taking her out. Win-win!

hh

[Baby Driver]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

...He could learn to make one excellent dish at home and show that off for a lot less than $30. If she really wants to spend time with him, then the money won't matter and a creative date beats the hell out of the typical date any day.

I'm all for creative dates, but inviting someone to your home for a first date is a bad idea for fairly obvious reasons, I think.

Originally posted by CrazyCatLady
Yeah, you can ask a girl out "Dutch," but only when you've gotten to the point you're comfortable talking about finances to that extent. The very first time you go out, not really knowing each other beyond chatting at work, isn't really the time for it. It's better, imo, to ask her to something that's lower-cost and lower time commitment the first time around.

This. Way this. It just doesn't come off well when you ask someone on a date and then ask them to pay for half. I don't think it's even a matter of gender so much as it is a matter of hospitality.

[Gatopescado]

No.

[InterestedObserver]

Lots of great suggestions...as a female, I would admire honesty, personally. Just an admission that funds are low and either going "dutch" or doing free/cheap stuff. (usually as much or more fun....just went downtown to see fireworks last night with my kids...cost us train fair and we had a blast...could have easily been a great date)

On one of my first dates with my husband of 23 yrs, I offered to pay my way and he was offended.....but hell, he was a college student, living at home, and I was new to dating and I didn't mean anything by it other than, hey, I can chip in.
He insisted on paying...ok, then. But it would not have bothered me at all to pay my own way.

I gather some women feel differently, but I am more interested in the man and the time together than the money issue. And to be perfectly honest, women who make a big deal out of being "paid for" and having a man "support" them, get on my last nerve.

In short, any such arrangement HAS to be upfront and from the get-go, not assumed. He should either pawn his most precious items and pay her way OR be honest and say, "I want to take you out but am pretty broke....would you mind doing something cheap/free?" If she is at all interested ans at all worth his time, she will be agreeable.

[ashman165]

I think there are quite a few good suggestions here. I don't know her or your friend (or do I?), but you can come with something like a string date (tm).

Coffee either on a Saturday, or earlier in the day and dependent on how well that goes he can then decide on cooking her dinner. (He can cook, right? If not, then this is a dreadful idea).

Now, where I live the average date for dinner and a movie is about 90 some odd dollars. That seems to be beyond his budget. But dinner and a movie is tired.

I generally avoid alcohol on a first date, even just a glass of wine. After all, isn't a first date when we're supposed to be on our best behavior and paying attention the most? So, he'd have to work around that, but it's not insurmountable. There are parks, museums, perhaps an open mic night at a comedy club or something. If worse comes to worse, he can always say something "I know this dive that makes the best pasta" or some such.

Or, he can be direct and say that he's interested in taking her on a date, but that right now he has other financial responsibilities which have to come first. At least she's on fair notice that in the long run, he's responsible (usually a plus), he's upfront and honest (another plus, usually) and interested in her (a plus if she's interested in him). The corollary is he can find out if she's looking for a sugardaddy.

[Eureka]

Speaking only for myself, I'd vote for suggesting some low-key activity which is free or low-cost (free concerts in the park is a good one, coffee at Starbucks is a fine one).

The fact that he is broke does not need to be mentioned in the same breath as "I'd like to get to know you better". The fact that he is broke as a result of a nasty divorce strikes me as a warning sign. As such, it better be revealed before it becomes a huge, deal-breaking secret, but mentioning it too soon(such as during the first "will you go out with me?" conversation) might make me wonder if this guy was really over the ex and all which happened which was associated with her.

[I Am The Lorax]

I was raised to not accept an date if I couldn't pay my own way. And on a first date, I insist. Like others have said, you don't want him to think you're 'on the hook' at the end of the night. Also, if I'm the inviter, I pay for it all, or expect to. If he wants Dutch, cool, but it would be bad manners to invite and then ask to go Dutch. So he should ask her out for low-key, cheap/free activities until he can afford otherwise. I wouldn't be put off at all if he mentioned that he was rather broke, or the reason for it. Everyones' lives have bumps, even nice peoples'.

[willthekittensurvive?]

he hoi, Ik zou het leuk vinden om iets af te spreken, maar door een tijdelijk situatie heb ik maar een beperkt buget, zou je het het leuk vinden om samen iets te doen?

neuken of zo?

works for me

[Neverender]

What did all you people do for dates before you had jobs? How did you pay for it all then?

I think it might be culture difference really, but for me (20 yo English male), man paying for EVERYTHING either means a.) money is all he's got going for him and he's flashing it around, or b.) the woman's a gold digger. I haven't been out with a girl that expected me to pay for everything. Even when I've attempted to pay the full bill most have refused to let me, or handed me half as soon as the bill arrives etc.

Yes there is a way to ask people out 'Dutch', you just do cheap stuff where people are expected to pay their own way, like ice cream at the park, or getting drinks with friends at a bar. This can then lead to the expectation that paying your own way is the done thing.

[Kalhoun]

Originally Posted by Neverender

What did all you people do for dates before you had jobs? How did you pay for it all then?

I think it might be culture difference really, but for me (20 yo English male), man paying for EVERYTHING either means a.) money is all he's got going for him and he's flashing it around, or b.) the woman's a gold digger. I haven't been out with a girl that expected me to pay for everything. Even when I've attempted to pay the full bill most have refused to let me, or handed me half as soon as the bill arrives etc.

Yes there is a way to ask people out 'Dutch', you just do cheap stuff where people are expected to pay their own way, like ice cream at the park, or getting drinks with friends at a bar. This can then lead to the expectation that paying your own way is the done thing.

In the US, I think you have to be a little more definite on the situation. Even though women paying their own way is gaining in common practice, it's still socially unacceptable to just assume that someone pay their own way when you ask them out. It has to be clear.

That said, I can think of a whole weekend's worth of stuff that can be done with $30. Say you're in Chicago. You can catch a free concert of some sort at Millennium Park or any of the street fair celebrations. You can pack a cooler with a bottle of wine or some brewskis and lay out a blanket on the grass and get to know each other. You can do a brew 'n' view thing. You can go to (some) museums on the cheap. There's always something that can be low on $$ and high on fun.

[sugar and spice]

I agree, just find something cheap that he can afford for 2. Also, just speaking for myself, I'm always intrigued when a guy can think of something interesting and reasonably-priced to do on date, outside of going out a mid-range restaurant. It makes me think he has a life, and that he does interesting stuff on his own all the time. And that on later dates, it won't be pulling teeth to get him to try some new and slightly dorky Sunday afternoon activity (art fair, hiking, random church festival, etc).

Of course I am not like every other woman out there. But if this girl is the type who needs to be treated to a nice restaurant for the first string of dates, then it's probably not going to work anyhow, you know?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by mhendo

Wow, excellent advice.

If someone's struggling to climb out of a big financial hole, the first thing i generally encourage them to do is take on more debt, at an interest rate of 15-30 percent per year.

But she's really hot.

[handsomeharry]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

But she's really hot.

OK, then, 80-90 percent.

[Marienee]

Originally Posted by willthekittensurvive?

he hoi, Ik zou het leuk vinden om iets af te spreken, maar door een tijdelijk situatie heb ik maar een beperkt buget, zou je het het leuk vinden om samen iets te doen?

neuken of zo?

works for me

I think you must be in a different region, here in Brabant they settle for 'k heb niks bij, kunnen toch gaan vrijen dus.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by Neverender

What did all you people do for dates before you had jobs? How did you pay for it all then?

I think it might be culture difference really, but for me (20 yo English male), man paying for EVERYTHING either means a.) money is all he's got going for him and he's flashing it around, or b.) the woman's a gold digger. I haven't been out with a girl that expected me to pay for everything. Even when I've attempted to pay the full bill most have refused to let me, or handed me half as soon as the bill arrives etc.

I don't think it's necessarily that the bloke is still expected to pay, so much as the one doing the asking is expected to pay. I've been on a couple of dates where I was the askee and I was content to let the girl pay for me on those. Otherwise, I've always ponied up for both of us unless it was an LTR.

[willthekittensurvive?]

Originally Posted by Marienee

I think you must be in a different region, here in Brabant they settle for 'k heb niks bij, kunnen toch gaan vrijen dus.

Maybe that’s why my colleges in Tilburg insist that Brabant has the most efficient dialect,

[Cagey Drifter]

"You're the most beautiful girl that has ever bought me dinner."

[Bridget Burke]

Originally Posted by Eureka

Speaking only for myself, I'd vote for suggesting some low-key activity which is free or low-cost (free concerts in the park is a good one, coffee at Starbucks is a fine one).

The fact that he is broke does not need to be mentioned in the same breath as "I'd like to get to know you better". The fact that he is broke as a result of a nasty divorce strikes me as a warning sign. As such, it better be revealed before it becomes a huge, deal-breaking secret, but mentioning it too soon(such as during the first "will you go out with me?" conversation) might make me wonder if this guy was really over the ex and all which happened which was associated with her.

He needs to leave the discussion of "that bitch my ex-wife" to later in the relationship. Much later.

Something free or cheap for the first date would be fine. For example: Houston's fine arts museum is open late on Thursday night--and admission is free that day. Miller Outdoor Theater has free shows--if you can stand the heat. Most of Houston's art galleries will be hosting a ton of openings this Saturday--free wine! (And beer--better for a Houston summer.)

If the couple hit if off he could mention he's a bit broke. Then they can work out inexpensive ways of hanging out. If she doesn't like to do interesting stuff & just wants somebody to spend money on her, too bad.

(To people outside the USA: Here, if you ask someone out, you are volunteering to pay. Especially on the first date. The woman can do the asking: "Hey, I happen to have an extra ticket to that show!" Students usually have opportunities to study together, go out for pizza with the gang, join the group smoking pot under that tree, etc.)

[CrazyCatLady]

Originally Posted by Neverender

What did all you people do for dates before you had jobs? How did you pay for it all then?

We got Happy Meals, took them to the park, ate them on the swings, and played with the toys. Or we went to the discount theater where they showed second run movies for $1.50. Or we went to street festivals, or Shakespeare in the Park, or discounted/free stuff on campus. Or we cooked dinner together. Or we stayed in and either rented a couple movies or watched tv. Whatever we did, we took turns paying for both of us--it was kind of the dividing line between us hanging out as friends and dating.

And nobody's saying the guy pays for everything all the time--but if he's going to ask her out, he needs to be prepared to pay for the entirety of that first evening, and then if they hit it off they can work out whatever's good for them for future dates.

[Green Bean]

Originally Posted by handsomeharry

Here's the solution: Get him to get the babe into a conversation. Say something like "I'd like to take you out, but I'm broke, big time. I'm stuck in this mess for about another year. If you can think of something cheap, let's do it!"

You're joking, right? You think he should as her to think of something to do? That's not asking her out. That's asking her to ask him out.

Originally Posted by sugar and spice

I agree, just find something cheap that he can afford for 2. Also, just speaking for myself, I'm always intrigued when a guy can think of something interesting and reasonably-priced to do on date, outside of going out a mid-range restaurant. It makes me think he has a life, and that he does interesting stuff on his own all the time. And that on later dates, it won't be pulling teeth to get him to try some new and slightly dorky Sunday afternoon activity (art fair, hiking, random church festival, etc).

So true.

[overlyverbose]

I love the idea of finding some free outdoor music and bringing along a picnic. That way the friend isn't inviting her to his home the first time out (which some women might perceive as threatening) and they can have a casual dinner out in public. All the friend needs is a backpack for the food and a few bucks for some nicer ingredients. If he can whip up something simple (or just grab some nice fruit, cheese and crackers) and splurge on a $10 bottle of wine (there are some pretty decent wines for that price), he's got a nice date for cheap.

[Bridget Burke]

Originally Posted by Green Bean

You're joking, right? You think he should as her to think of something to do? That's not asking her out. That's asking her to ask him out......

Yes! If he wants to court her, he needs to show what he has to offer. Rather than harp on the fact that he doesn't have much money, he needs to demonstrate that he's an interesting guy who wants her to join him in doing interesting stuff.

In fact, if a guy said "I can afford to take you to an extremely expensive restaurant but don't really care about food--you pick" when asking for a first date--he'd be turned down by any decent woman. Who wants to spend the evening with a bore?