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  #101  
Old 01-22-2012, 10:33 AM
jtgain jtgain is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
On a serious note, I wouldn't vote for Romney, but I wouldn't be too bothered if he won. Newt, OTOH, is honest to goodness scary. He's exactly the kind of guy you don't want in the WH. A big idea guy who thinks he's always right.
But here is what makes it okay for me: Newt wouldn't be a dictator. He would still have to get support from Congress to pass anything into law. I agree that Newt does have some bold ideas that tip the scale into craziness sometimes, but I don't think he's a "Fuck it, let's nuke Pakistan tonight, North Korea tomorrow" kind of crazy.
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  #102  
Old 01-22-2012, 10:34 AM
Evil Captor Evil Captor is offline
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
All that and they are not born-again Christian.

As soon as the primaries go to states where Republicans are not as concentrated in this one minority sector of the party, the effect that Voyager points out will predominate.

Lost in all the horse-race verbal diarrhea is the fact that even a month or so ago, Romney was never expected to win either Iowa or South Carolina. The composition of the primary voting base in those states were thoroughly against him. That he tied in one and lost at the last minute in the other doesn't change that; in the long-term it'll be said those were indications that he was doing better than anyone expected.

Not that you'll hear this from media delirious that they have a horse-race to cover for the next couple of weeks until Super Tuesday.

It's a sign of the apocalypse: the Democrats will be toasting Newt Gingrich.
I have to agree with you about the TV punditry. They have been idiot shills throughout the campaign, totally distracted by each new dog with a fluffy tail as it comes along, not keeping any sense of perspective t all. And I mostly watch MSNBC, which you would THINK would have some perspective on the matter, generally not being conservatives. But no, ratings are the god they must appease, and to do that they pump up every primary as if it were the election itself, so they do.
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  #103  
Old 01-22-2012, 10:35 AM
Lobohan Lobohan is offline
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Originally Posted by jtgain View Post
But here is what makes it okay for me: Newt wouldn't be a dictator. He would still have to get support from Congress to pass anything into law. I agree that Newt does have some bold ideas that tip the scale into craziness sometimes, but I don't think he's a "Fuck it, let's nuke Pakistan tonight, North Korea tomorrow" kind of crazy.
If Newt wins, it will be because Republicans come out to vote in large numbers. That means that House and Senate are likely to belong to them. If Newt has the house and a 61 vote margin in the senate, say goodbye to the world. He'd probably crash the world economy as a first step.
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  #104  
Old 01-22-2012, 10:37 AM
Evil Captor Evil Captor is offline
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Nope, never lived there. My wife lived in Statesboro for a year, though.
That'll get her a Distinguished Service Cross! I thought Gaganthundar was the OP. Oops.
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  #105  
Old 01-22-2012, 11:02 AM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is offline
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How much did Gingrich's Southern roots play in the vote? Is he expected to carry most of the South?

I won't vote for him. But I can't vouch for my Southern neighbors.
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  #106  
Old 01-22-2012, 11:13 AM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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It's fascinating that at the height of Conservative Christian domination of the right-wing of the Republican party, the ones most likely to vote in primaries, the three leading candidates left include two Catholics and a Mormon. Ron Paul is admittedly a Baptist and since he's running to spread a message rather than to win, he'll be there all the way through. But he's the one who makes a point of not publicly proclaiming his faith. And every contender who loudly pandered to the CC vote is out of the race. Who could have imagined that at the start?
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  #107  
Old 01-22-2012, 12:34 PM
jsgoddess jsgoddess is offline
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Lost in all the horse-race verbal diarrhea is the fact that even a month or so ago, Romney was never expected to win either Iowa or South Carolina. The composition of the primary voting base in those states were thoroughly against him. That he tied in one and lost at the last minute in the other doesn't change that; in the long-term it'll be said those were indications that he was doing better than anyone expected.
Do you watch sports? Being a choker is worse, way worse, than being overmatched in the first place. Nobody praises the Yankees when they lose.
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  #108  
Old 01-22-2012, 01:12 PM
Northern Piper Northern Piper is offline
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I can understand Newt's appeal. Romney is a corporate suit. Corporate suits don't have much credibility since the crash. Newt, well, if you want a fire-breathing pit bull as your candidate, there you go!
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  #109  
Old 01-22-2012, 01:35 PM
Locrian Locrian is offline
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Originally Posted by Evil Captor View Post
The thing that really struck me is the huge number of Gingrich voters who decided to vote for him within a day or so of the election. Talk about a late-breaking curve!
I'm also shocked by 48% of Gingrich voters declare abortion "illegal in all cases" and I'm NOT shocked that 44% of his voters in SC are BAs or Evangelicals.
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  #110  
Old 01-22-2012, 02:00 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
It's fascinating that at the height of Conservative Christian domination of the right-wing of the Republican party, the ones most likely to vote in primaries, the three leading candidates left include two Catholics and a Mormon.
The mistrust of Catholics on the part of evangelicals/fundies went away 2-3 decades ago, when they got used to making common cause on all those 'family values' issues. One data point: the Supreme Court has had a Roman Catholic majority for several years now - all five of the Republican appointees are Catholics. Have you heard the least peep of objection to this situation from any evangelical leader? Me either.

They may go to different churches on Sunday, but evangelicals and conservative Catholics are thick as thieves the rest of the week.

Mormons are still a different matter, though. It'll probably take another decade or two for evangelicals to get over their distrust of Mormons, even though they're on the same side of most issues.

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And every contender who loudly pandered to the CC vote is out of the race.
I realize Santorum's fading, but he's still in the race.
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  #111  
Old 01-22-2012, 04:57 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
I realize Santorum's fading, but he's still in the race.
Every loudly conservative protestant is out of the race. There's no such thing as a born-again Catholic.

Though the two groups aren't overtly antagonistic, they aren't the same either. The much talked about "Reagan Democrats" that have mostly stayed switched since have a large percentage of Catholics among them. My hunch is that as we get to states with larger Catholic populations, we'll see them going more for Romney.
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  #112  
Old 01-22-2012, 06:36 PM
Qin Shi Huangdi Qin Shi Huangdi is online now
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Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
It just scares me watching these "family values" loving right wing theocrats actually holding Gingrich 2012 sign and cheering until they're red faced and more dizzy than usual (if possible).

Seriously, do we need any more visual displays of hypocrites?

I am looking for a decent candidate to run against Barack. But so far, my vote will be for Barack for same reasons as all elections I've voted in= candidate I despise the least. So, with all the putzses the GOP threw at us, looks like Barack gets the Locrian support again if The Reptile is the candidate.
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Originally Posted by NDP View Post
I said this before in another thread but any member of the Religious Right and/or anybody else who feels the need to preach about "family values" who supports Gingrich automatically forfeits his or her right to speak on the topic without being met with a loud chorus of guffaws.
Well they can always point to King David...

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Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar View Post
I can see it now; A Gingrich/Santorum ticket, the very suicide of the American right. Such a ticket might carry Oklahoma, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arizona one or two other states.
Utah, Idaho, and Alaska but in such a landslide Arizon's definiately going Democrat.

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Originally Posted by Evil Captor View Post
The thing that really struck me is the huge number of Gingrich voters who decided to vote for him within a day or so of the election. Talk about a late-breaking curve!
Sort of like Dewey and Truman in 1948-Romney unfortunately is just as dull as Thomas Dewey.

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Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
I'm also shocked by 48% of Gingrich voters declare abortion "illegal in all cases"
That's aint gonna happen even if Newt's POTUS.
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  #113  
Old 01-22-2012, 07:56 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Every loudly conservative protestant is out of the race.
Santorum's pretty much indistinguishable from one, though. Besides, what you said was:

"every contender who loudly pandered to the CC vote is out of the race."

Did he, or did he not, loudly pander to the conservative Christian vote?
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There's no such thing as a born-again Catholic.
Just like there are no Catholics who use birth control: RCC doctrine denies the one, and forbids the other, but there are lots of Roman Catholics who've been 'born again' - I knew more than a few in my younger days - just as there are lots of Catholics who use birth control.
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  #114  
Old 01-22-2012, 07:58 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
I can understand Newt's appeal. Romney is a corporate suit.
The main difference between Gingrich and Romney is that Gingrich knows how to fake sincerity and Romney doesn't.
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  #115  
Old 01-22-2012, 10:00 PM
NDP NDP is offline
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Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
The main difference between Gingrich and Romney is that Gingrich knows how to fake sincerity and Romney doesn't.
That reminds me, I'm reading Nixonland right now and the similarities between Gingrich and Nixon are disturbingly creepy.
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  #116  
Old 01-23-2012, 09:32 PM
Kolak of Twilo Kolak of Twilo is offline
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Originally Posted by NDP View Post
That reminds me, I'm reading Nixonland right now and the similarities between Gingrich and Nixon are disturbingly creepy.
I actually think Nixon was more charming and personable. And far less crooked.

THAT is disturbingly creepy to me.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 01-23-2012 at 09:33 PM..
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  #117  
Old 01-23-2012, 09:42 PM
Fear Itself Fear Itself is offline
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I actually think Nixon was more charming and personable.
I dunno, they both have that permanent scowl line etched into their foreheads.
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  #118  
Old 01-23-2012, 10:34 PM
MEBuckner MEBuckner is offline
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Originally Posted by Kolak of Twilo View Post
I actually think Nixon was more charming and personable.
I dunno; Nixon could only persuade one woman to marry him.
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  #119  
Old 01-23-2012, 10:50 PM
Kolak of Twilo Kolak of Twilo is offline
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Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
I dunno, they both have that permanent scowl line etched into their foreheads.
Yeah, but you know what? Nixon really loved his wife. They were apparently very close. RMN barely lasted 10 months after Pat's death.

I'm pretty sure Newton sees the greatest love of his life every time he looks in a mirror.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 01-23-2012 at 10:51 PM..
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  #120  
Old 01-24-2012, 12:04 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Originally Posted by Kolak of Twilo View Post
I actually think Nixon was more charming and personable. And far less crooked.
Man, did you ever listen to those tapes, or read the transcripts? Nixon was filled with hate and rage; he was just better at controlling it in public. (As President, and as Presidential candidate in 1968, he handed over the job of attacking enemies publicly to Spiro Agnew.) And by all accounts, he was never charming or personable; he didn't seem to know how to relate to other human beings because he wasn't much of one himself.

I think one could have an enjoyable conversation with Newt Gingrich. But I can't imagine having anything like a normal conversation with Nixon.
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  #121  
Old 01-24-2012, 12:13 PM
a35362 a35362 is offline
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No. A conversation with Gingrich would be him talking and you listening.
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  #122  
Old 01-24-2012, 12:40 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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Dick Cheney learned his politics in the Nixon WH, and, as Veep, spent eight years fighting for Nixon's vision of an unaccountable "Unitary Executive" Imperial Presidency.
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  #123  
Old 01-24-2012, 01:04 PM
Rhythmdvl Rhythmdvl is offline
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Originally Posted by BrainGlutton View Post
Dick Cheney learned his politics in the Nixon WH, and, as Veep, spent eight years fighting for Nixon's vision of an unaccountable "Unitary Executive" Imperial Presidency.
Would you please turn that into a Star Wars reference?



ETA: You did, thanks!

Last edited by Rhythmdvl; 01-24-2012 at 01:05 PM..
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  #124  
Old 01-24-2012, 01:08 PM
elucidator elucidator is offline
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Dear God, we are a nation of Jar-jar Binks!

Nurse? More drugs, please. Nurse?
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  #125  
Old 01-24-2012, 05:57 PM
jsc1953 jsc1953 is offline
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
The right wing in this country seems to have come around to the belief that Newt might be the guy who can do that, only on a national stage - that if you put Newt and 'Barry' in a debate, Newt will turn him into chopped liver, and liberalism in America will have a stake driven through its heart.

No, really: that's what they're hoping for.
Perhaps it's because they truly bought into their own myth-making, that Obama is helpless without a teleprompter.
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  #126  
Old 01-24-2012, 08:01 PM
Frank Frank is offline
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
But I can't imagine having anything like a normal conversation with Nixon.
Of all people, Hunter Thompson did. 'Course, it was about football.
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  #127  
Old 01-24-2012, 09:52 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Of all people, Hunter Thompson did. 'Course, it was about football.
Sheesh, I'd forgotten about that!
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  #128  
Old 01-24-2012, 09:55 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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What about the doomed, Mr. President?!
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  #129  
Old 01-25-2012, 12:48 AM
Kolak of Twilo Kolak of Twilo is offline
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
I think one could have an enjoyable conversation with Newt Gingrich. But I can't imagine having anything like a normal conversation with Nixon.
I doubt I would find having a conversation with either of them enjoyable in a normal sense.

The difference for me is, as wrong as he was, I believe Nixon thought the things he was doing were necessary and in the best interests of the country.

I don't think Gingrich could give a shit about anything like that. He is motivated purely by his ego and the desire to attain power and wealth.

In the end, Nixon was a pathetic, amoral man. Gingrich is a loathsome, immoral egomaniac. YMMV of course.
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  #130  
Old 01-25-2012, 08:41 AM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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The difference for me is, as wrong as he was, I believe Nixon thought the things he was doing were necessary and in the best interests of the country.
Look, I hate to flirt with Godwin, but believing one's doing what's "necessary and in the best interests of the country" is not any sort of excuse. All of the great monsters of the 20th century - Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and, yes, Hitler - surely thought they were doing what was necessary and in the best interests of their countries.

Not to mention, I doubt it's particularly true in Nixon's case. Whether we're talking about instituting economy-wide wage and price controls (yes, he did that) or creating a burglary unit, it's hard to believe that he had anything in mind with a great number of his activities besides getting re-elected.
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  #131  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:13 AM
Slithy Tove Slithy Tove is offline
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Sort of like Dewey and Truman in 1948-Romney unfortunately is just as dull as Thomas Dewey.
Supposedly, Alice Roosevelt Longworth ruined Dewey by describing him as "the little man on the wedding cake."

Could someone please do us the same service by fixing Newt's image as "the fat pindick kid in the high school locker room?"
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  #132  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:28 AM
BigT BigT is offline
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Look, I hate to flirt with Godwin, but believing one's doing what's "necessary and in the best interests of the country" is not any sort of excuse. All of the great monsters of the 20th century - Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and, yes, Hitler - surely thought they were doing what was necessary and in the best interests of their countries.

Not to mention, I doubt it's particularly true in Nixon's case. Whether we're talking about instituting economy-wide wage and price controls (yes, he did that) or creating a burglary unit, it's hard to believe that he had anything in mind with a great number of his activities besides getting re-elected.
still doesn't change that someone who is doing it for their country is less evil than someone who is doing it for themselves.
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  #133  
Old 01-25-2012, 11:01 AM
Kolak of Twilo Kolak of Twilo is offline
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...believing one's doing what's "necessary and in the best interests of the country" is not any sort of excuse.
I agree it is not any sort of excuse; sorry if you got the impression I was trying to offer a defense of Nixon. I was alive and vividly remember his time as President. The original point I was attempting to make was - as damaging as the Nixon Presidency was for the country, I believe a Gingrich Presidency would be worse.
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  #134  
Old 01-25-2012, 11:09 AM
Kolak of Twilo Kolak of Twilo is offline
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Never mind.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 01-25-2012 at 11:13 AM.. Reason: deleted post
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  #135  
Old 01-25-2012, 12:03 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is online now
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Could someone please do us the same service by fixing Newt's image as "the fat pindick kid in the high school locker room?"
How about Dwight Schrute?
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  #136  
Old 01-26-2012, 12:43 PM
New Deal Democrat New Deal Democrat is offline
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By the time this primary is over there will be so much bitterness between Gingrich and Romney that the Republican nomination will not be worth having. Meanwhile each will have exposed vulnerabilities in the other that Obama will exploit in the general election.

I'm loving it.
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  #137  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:32 AM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Lets not get too optomistic. Unemployment is high, the fed announced plans to keep interest rates low until 2014 (signalling that they believe the economy will continue to suck), Obamacare is still unpopular, we aren't goign to get the deficit under control anytime soon.

Obama can lose this to anyone that was on that stage.
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  #138  
Old 01-27-2012, 10:37 AM
jsc1953 jsc1953 is offline
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By the time this primary is over there will be so much bitterness between Gingrich and Romney that the Republican nomination will not be worth having. Meanwhile each will have exposed vulnerabilities in the other that Obama will exploit in the general election.

I'm loving it.
Replace Gingrich, Romney and Obama with Obama, Clinton and McCain respectively, and this logic would have applied to 2008.
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  #139  
Old 01-27-2012, 11:49 AM
Fear Itself Fear Itself is offline
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Replace Gingrich, Romney and Obama with Obama, Clinton and McCain respectively, and this logic would have applied to 2008.
You must watching a differnet campaign if you think Obama v. Clinton was as vitriolic as Romney v. Gingrich. And we are only just getting started...
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  #140  
Old 01-27-2012, 02:00 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Originally Posted by Kolak of Twilo View Post
The original point I was attempting to make was - as damaging as the Nixon Presidency was for the country, I believe a Gingrich Presidency would be worse.
Yeah, but that's more or less a given at this point - any Republican would be worse for the country than Nixon. GWB was way worse than Nixon, and every candidate for the GOP nomination this year, quite frankly, makes Shrubby look good by comparison.
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