How Many Of You Still Have "State Of The Art" Stereo Systems?

[Quasimodem]

Mine's in my home theater system, but no, I don't use a stereo amplifier, tuner etc. anymore.

Can this be a poll of some kind? If so, can somebody make it into one? I keep screwing it up.

Thanks

Quasi

[kunilou]

Heck, I not only have a state of the art system with Advent speakers and an AIWA receiver, I have a genuine two-track, stereo, 7" Kenwood reel-to-reel tape recorder and a Pioneer turntable!

[Quasimodem]

kunilou,

Do they still print "Hi-Fi And Stereo Review"? I LOVED that magazine and always read it cover to cover. I had Pioneer EVRYTHING back in the 70's!

[friedo]

I don't know about state of the art, but I have a very fancy A/V preamp/processor and five-channel power amp for my home theater.

The main speakers are a pair of JBL bookshelfs that I've had since I was 19, the surrounds are a pair of small Yamahas that I originally got for my computer about four years ago, and the center channel is a brand new 3-way Infinity PC350. I also have a small powered sub.

Yes, it sounds fantastic.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I don't even have a stereo anymore, except the (stock) one in my car. I bought a Creative woofer and speaker setup for the computer like 10 years ago and it's pretty much all I need.

[ralph124c]

What explains the decline in HiFi eqipement? Young people seem perfectly happy with compressed (MPRG) audio today-people (like you) with elaborate stereo gear are in the minoity.
Why is this?

[Quasimodem]

I have a surround sound theater system which I use to play Warcraft. It also serves me well as HiFi equipment.

Q

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by ralph124c

What explains the decline in HiFi eqipement? Young people seem perfectly happy with compressed (MPRG) audio today-people (like you) with elaborate stereo gear are in the minoity.
Why is this?

We've got shit to do, and we'd rather be able to take all the music we own wherever we go than listen to it in uber-squiddly-ultra-super-high fidelity. Especially since we're probably too drunk or high to appreciate the nuances anyway.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by ralph124c

What explains the decline in HiFi eqipement? Young people seem perfectly happy with compressed (MPRG) audio today-people (like you) with elaborate stereo gear are in the minoity.
Why is this?

Same reason as the (slow) decline of the PC industry: most people care about convenience and price, not quality and functionality. For a while the only way to get audio is to have a complicated setup (likewise with computing needs and a PC). Now, there are easier ways, and only die-hards spend the time/money/effort on stuff that works well.

[Fiddle Peghead]

I still have and use my Luxman receiver/amp that I bought in 1989. I've never owned another, and have no plans to buy anything new.

[Arrendajo]

I've still got the Sansui G5700 receiver/amp I bought in 1979. I use it to power the monitors in my studio. What a workhorse. Exactly like this one.

[banjoDavid]

My system is a Project turntable with Benz moving coil cartridge, Rotel CD player, Rotel pre-amp, Bryston power amp, and Magnapan planar magnetic speakers with 5 foot long ribbon tweeters.

That's audiophile geek speak for a great sounding system.

I also have a recording studio where I record high resolution digital sound, and a old
4 track Tascam analog tape deck.

Good sound means a lot to me. I have taught audio recording, and when people hear really good reproduced sound, they are amazed. It's not the boom and sizzle of
too loud live concert sound sub-woofer thunder, but clear clean true sound.
The stereo imaging between the Magnapan speakers is holographic, and sweet.

Most people don't take the time to just listen to music anymore. It's background for doing other things.

David

[kunilou]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

kunilou,

Do they still print "Hi-Fi And Stereo Review"? I LOVED that magazine and always read it cover to cover. I had Pioneer EVRYTHING back in the 70's!

It changed its name to Stereo Review and eventually Sound & Vision (focusing on home theater.) It was sold a couple of times, but last time I heard, it's still being published.

[Chefguy]

This thread depresses me. Since we retired and downsized to a much smaller house, I sold off my stereo gear. I had a Denon receiver/amp, both NHT and Klipsch speakers, and associated equipment (turntable, CD, tape deck, switcher, etc). Upstairs I had a surround system with a Yamaha amp and B&W matched speakers. I miss it all.

Now I have a crappy shelf stereo and a sound bar that I plug my iPod into.

[Musicat]

I feel like I'm bucking the trend. Most of my friends have an all-function boombox as their primary entertainment system, or use the speakers in their big-screen TV, both of which are abominable to me. They use 3 inch speakers that come with their computer or the micro one in their laptop which has poorer frequency response than their cellphone. And don't get me started on cellphone fidelity, nowhere near a standard 1950's Bell System telephone.

My hifi system isn't top of the line, but ever since affordable fidelity reached the limits of human ears ca. 1960's, I've always had a system that I am not ashamed of. My computer is piped thru my hifi, if I use my laptop on the road, it's with a good set of Sony circumaural headphones, and my hifi is a component system with separate bookshelf or floorstanding speakers (used to be JBL 1015s or AR2s). Even combining a tuner with a power amp to make a receiver seems like a compromise to me.

Call me a fuddy-duddy, but I ain't gonna change. I actually want to hear the music the way God intended.

[cochrane]

I have a Bluetooth adapter plugged into my home theater speakers. I play music from my iPhone over the Bluetooth connection. The nice thing about it is, I can keep my iPhone next to me and control all the music from across the room or even in the next room.

I do have a stereo with AM/FM, auto-reverse cassette, and a 60 disc CD changer. It's in the garage. I haven't actually played a CD in about seven or eight years. I haven't played a cassette in far longer. For radio, I have apps on my phone that bring in internet streams of my favorite stations.

[gaffa]

At home in Chicago, I have a very impressive stereo/surround system based around a pair of Carver's "The Amazing" loudspeakers, top end Yamaha AV receiver and Adcom amps. At my Kansas City apartment, I have a much smaller Yamaha "home theater in a box" system that still does an excellent job in a much smaller room.

But I have to confess, the majority of my music listening is done via headphones on an iPod Touch. The big system get fired up when an important new album comes out, or when I mix the sound on one of my concert videos.

[Student Driver]

I have a kind of piecemeal set up, salvaged from older systems. I've got a giant/heavy JVC JR-S401 receiver/amp from the 1970s that handles radio, phonograph, and analog and digital laserdisc audio; I have a cheaper, flimsier "home theater" receiver that plays better with AC-3/DTS laserdiscs, as well as handling Blu Ray/DVD audio and iPhone audio out. Both go to a switcher to which some ~15-year-old "hi fi" Pioneer speakers from old rack stereos are connected for front and rear channels, and a cheap speaker bar that came with the home theater receiver for center. I don't have a subwoofer attached. My downstairs neighbor deserves some peace.

[Cicero]

I bought a record player about 6 months ago- it hooks up to my computer.

I can play my records. hubba hubba.

[tdn]

Originally Posted by banjoDavid

and a old 4 track Tascam analog tape deck.

Cassette tape?

[Munch]

Originally Posted by friedo

I don't know about state of the art, but I have a very fancy A/V preamp/processor and five-channel power amp for my home theater.

I'd really like to do more research on what exactly a preamp + power amp do. I currently have a decent AV receiver with 5.1 surround. I want to best take advantage of the lossless audio tracks that are available on bluray, and have been very pleased with the results. None of my speakers are really anything incredibly special, but they currently do a decent job. Fry's had a deal on a new Onkyo receiver that would have been a great upgrade (I need something that passes 3D through), but I let it slip.

I have a friend who fabricates his own speakers, and the results are beautiful as well as technically amazing - he's offered to do a pair for me once I put together the cash.

But I do have an Apple TV hooked up to everything, so I can access my music library from my living room, and control it with my phone. Extremely nice feature. It'll also take Pandora, MLB At Bat, etc. from my phone.

[Borzo]

I think people value convenience more than quality. Back in the day, you had to set aside time and sit at home to listen to music. But now, you can just take it with you on the bus/train/car. But most of these places have huge amounts of background noise, however - and as a result, peoples' need for quality has taken a backseat.

[divemaster]

Back in the day, I subscribed to Stereo Review and drooled over the whole separates idea. Names like Infinity, Polk, Carver, Vacuum Tube Technology, etc. fascinated me. I circled the little numbers on the ad mailers and received all sorts of product brochures. It was like another porn for me

I never was able to swing all the separate components, but I did want a good system for litening to music (mostly classical, but also country and classic rock).

I came into buying power about the time CDs came out so I never had the need for a tape deck or phonograph. I've gone through various receivers and CD players and such, but from the get-go I spung for Klipsch speakers.

Right now I have a Denon A/V Receiver, pretty decent DVD/CD player, and Klipsch speakers for center and all surround channels. Plus subwoofer. I bypass the speakers in my TV in favor of the Klipsch set-up.

I don't watch movies on a computer or "device." I don't own an "I"-anything. Hell, my cellphone is dumb as a box of rocks. When I want to listen to a CD or watch a DVD, I go to my man-cave and let my system work. Doing this via a tiny little screen or through ear-buds is a thought that horrifies me.

[california jobcase]

I use a Kenwood Basic C1 pre-amp and a Kenwood Basic M2A amp with a big old BSR equalizer, Sansui direct drive turntable, and two top-of-the-line Optimus speakers I got cheap when Radio Shack switched over to RCA. My CD player is a five-disc RCA carousel.

Off to the side, I have a retro-looking CD/cassette/turntable/radio combination so I can listen to the radio or play 78 rpm records.

[Rhythmdvl]

The parlour has a Harman Kardon amplifier and an Audiosource EQ1 equalizer (unfortunately I don't have the original test mic, but the levels are tuned to pink noise with a decent Sony mic). Sound travels to two pairs of Polk Monitor 40s placed around the room. There's also a 13" Polk subwoofer in the mix. The room sounds incredible.

Theatre is a bit more basic. An Onkyo SR707 receiver drives everything and does basic Audessy calibration on the speakers. Speakers are Infinity TSS-1200s. Also fantastic.

Anyone want to chime in and let me know where my bragging rights stand? Better than a theatre-in-a-box but without Pear auido cables I'm fooling myself?

[smithsb]

I still do the Hi-Fi part. Biggest thing is the speakers. The home theater has Definitive Technology towers, center speaker and surrounds. The towers are bi-amped with a separate LFE feed to the subwoofers (each tower has a 1200 watt amp, 10" woofer, and 3 10" passive radiators). Had to run a separate 20 amp circuit to the location to prevent dimming of the lights during explosions, deep bass notes, monster footsteps, etc... The AV reciever sends signals to a second zone. There I've got some Magnepans being fed from a Nakamichi pre-amp and ESS Professional amp from decades ago. Other stuff, Sansui tuner from the 1970s (pulls more signals than anything digital though local radio is limited), Yamaha linear arm turntable (Grado cartridge), Pioneer DVD - SACD player. Samsung Blu-Ray player. My brother-in-law goes all in with tube pre/main amp, air bearing turntable, exotic handmade Japanese cartridge, custom suspension speakers. All sound fantastic even to my elderly ears. Even the kids recognize the improvement. But as noted, you can't take it with you.

[aceplace57]

I still use my hi-fi stereo. I just replaced the amp in 2005. It' a Marantz. My denon am/fm tuner is from 1994 and I have a denon cd changer bought in 1996. My Sansui speakers were bought in 1977.

[ducati]

I still have my Sony component system with dual-tape deck, turntable and CD player circa 1990. It has a 500 watt amp and lives in the basement making the kids' Xbox and other games way too loud.

Upstairs is my Bang & Olufsen Beosound 3000, circa 2001. It's connected to 4 Beolab 8002 speakers, and integrated with my computer so I can play Itunes, internet radio - whatever.

I know self-proclaimed audiophiles roll their eyes at B&O, but it suits me & Chuck Mangione just fine!

[Rhythmdvl]

Originally Posted by ducati

I know self-proclaimed audiophiles roll their eyes at B&O, but it suits me & Chuck Mangione just fine!

Why? Similar to Bose?

[banjoDavid]

Originally Posted by tdn

Cassette tape?

Nope. 1/4 inch tape, 7 1/2 and 15 inches per second speeds, and 10 inch reels. With 4 channel of DBX noise reduction, I recorded a LOT of albums on it.

The best analog tape setup I used was in a state of the art studio in the Chicago suburbs I worked at in the mid '80's.
Studer 2 inch 24 track and 1/4 inch 2 track machines, and a Neve 8058 console.
George Augsberger designed the rooms with 20 foot ceilings.
Before multi-track digital came out. Best sound in town.

David

[tr0psn4j]

Is there a reason to go the route of speakers instead of just fancy headphones?

[casdave]

I've got quite a large quantity of various older Bang& Olufsen systems, but I tend to leave the distributed link systems alone.

Audiophiles are often sniffy about B&O, however I've found that none, absolutely not one of them can actually quantify theIR reasons in measurable values.

They use all sort of stupid terms that reveal their complete ignorance of electronics, sound reproduction etc. They are frequently caught out in double blind listening tests.

I know quite a number of former and current electronic bench techs, as indeed I am - or was, who are not quite so influenced by such baseless and non-objective criticisms, and we don't tend to criticise B&O stuff much. Some of it is very average, but some of it is also very good.

I have some B&O stuff from the 1960's that can easily hold comparison with more modern equipment.

Its also true to say that modern speakers are generally much better than their older counterparts - this is one area where significant progress has been made.

B&O stuff has a very neutral sound, which means it does not tend to boost or cut the sound across the audio band, however BOSE stuff is designed to fit in with the current fashion of having lots of bass and lots of top end, and not much in between.

Result is that Bose stuff is often tiring to listen over a period of time - and you can objectively measure this bass and top boost.

The good old reel to reels still produce sound quality better than CD. My favourite is a SONY TC765. Trouble is, R 2 R's are a bit fiddly, and you really need a proper mixing desk to record properly - so I can see why they are not popular, but then, they never really were all that mainstream. There are only a couple of other R 2 R's I'd like to have, the Technics RS1500 and maybe a Revox B77, or a well restored Revox A77

I am also a big fan of some of the Sansui stuff, it really was the business up to around 1980 and after that you have to carefully pick out your models, some being exceptional and others not so much.

There is a huge amount of snake oil around audiophilia, the mysterious properties of $1000 a metre speaker cable or $2000 mains lead connectors, but once you get away from these rich idiots, there are still lots of electrical engineers who do know their stuff, and can prove it - and we do not fall for such rubbish.

Modern electronics does have the potential to be truly superb - but it seems to be less important these days to Joe Public.

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by tr0psn4j

Is there a reason to go the route of speakers instead of just fancy headphones?

You really have to ask? More comfortable, allows for freedom of movement, can talk on phone with speakers going, allows more than one listener at once, and I'm sure there are more...

[Cicero]

Casdave, I always thought B & O were the top of the range. More than I could have afforded.

[ralph124c]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Casdave, I always thought B & O were the top of the range. More than I could have afforded.

B&O always concentrated on the aesthitics-their stuff was nice to look at. Inside, it was mostly Philips-their CDs were identical to Philips.
There is a huge amount of old audio on Ebay-some of it is real cheap. The problem is repairs-very few shops service HiFi equipment anymore.

[Ken001]

Ooohh this thread evokes a nostalgic ache in my heart. As a resident of the antipodes I used to lust over systems in British stereo magazines in the 70s. The hardware was available but at a Hugh Hefner price so I put together the best ordinary stuff I could find. And in fairness was happy with it even if the turntable didn't float on a concrete base.

Recently as part of my volunteer work for Habitat For Humanity (charity shop) I dumped a trailer load of loudspeakers including some quality gear. I nearly cried. Nobody wants them. Nobody.

I suggested a stereo setup for my teenage children who looked at me blankly. They don't even use ghetto blasters. At the most they have powered speakers attached to the home pc which they only turn on occasionally.

Everything is MP3 or MP4. Bud earphones. Cellphones contain the music. Why would you want a specialised group of machines to play music?? Silly me.

[casdave]

Inside, it was mostly Philips-their CDs were identical to Philips.
There is a huge amount of old audio on Ebay-some of it is real cheap.

This is a myth.

Unless you wish to consider the manufacturers of almost every hifi system to be made up of Phillips parts.

Sadly, the cost of B&O on EBAY is not all that cheap either, for Hifi that is getting on for 30 years old - and it is worth comparing the cost of it to all the other stuff that was on the market at the time - actually you don't see much becuase most of it is worthless. Check out how much JVC is on there, or maybe Sanyo, then compare the prices.

You need to remember that the patents and standards for the cassette and the audio CD and most of the VHS and betamax recorders are all owned by Phillips, and that anything using these as major parts of their systems either uses Phillips components directly, or pays a royalty - all of them without any exceptions whatsover.

Since I own and have repaired many hifi systems, and I am very well aware of the manufacturers of the components from which they are made, your statement Ralph is an extreme exagerration of the truth.

Care to apply that statement to SONY, BOSE, Yamaha, Akai, Sansui and just about every other manufacturer, because it is as true for them as for B & O.

Are we also going to say that all these manufactuers were just rebadged Siemens products, because gues who made many of the semi-conductors for them?

I'll even mention a specific component for you, the earlier laser head mechanism the CD 104 was a Phillips produced part, however it was used by many other companies.

Its almost like saying that the Land Rover is a Buick since it used the Buick engine on license, even though it was used in a modified form, yet no-one would truly decribe Land rovers as Buicks.

To link B&O to Phillips is to attempt to do something very similar.

Even so, even if it were rebadged Phillips, what is does reveal is the sneering contempt held by so-called 'experts' in audio engineering who have never taken the real trouble to attend high level college or university courses and do the hard work to understand the design, construction and the real meanings of specifications.If Phillips sounds good, then it sounds good, the badge is completely irrelevant. Sneer on dude!

What has always mattered is the sound quality that can be objectively measured, not opinionised. Hifi buffs are self educated idiots with lots of prejudices and no formal technical knowledge - they are wannabee technicians who can't actually cut it when it comes down to the maths. They speak with an authority that conceals their ignorance.

This, as you have probably guessed, is one of my pet peeves. I hate the approach of the 'faux engineer' because it is unscientific, because it is the easy way out of doing the hard graft it takes to understand a complex subject. Its the sort of lax thinking that leads to the conspiracy theorist, to the fools thinking that sitting in their homes and looking at a few charts and images, they can debunk the idea that we went to the moon, or a host of other stupid pseudoscience trends.

Knowledge is hard won, it is far easier to have a little bit of stolen glory by pretending to know something, by repeating some canard that has been smokescreened in some meaningless pseudo-gobbledygook. The hifi world is awash with such people.

B&O stuff was expensive, and still is, you can get more for your money over the shorter term, but other stuff tends not to last as long or hold its value as long and also other stuff soon looks old.

Even so there is some better sounding stuff out there, plenty of it - but the stuff that sounds better and lasts as long also holds its value too, you just look up some of the Audio Fidelity stuff, or Quad, or NAIM - in fact this is likely to be even more expensive than B&O - but at least is can measure objectively why it is better with the right equipment - it is not a matter of opinion.

[Crafter_Man]

At our previous home I had a fairly kick-ass old-school stereo system. It consisted of a Sansui CA-3000 preamp and Sansui BA-3000 power amp. The TV was a 56-inch Toshiba TW56F80 "Theater Wide" rear projection TV. It was huge.

We are now in a different house, and a couple years ago I built a HT room in the basement. Major components include the following:

- Onkyo PR-SC886 7.1 channel preamp/processor
- JVC HD-250 high-definition projector
- 103 inch Seymour Center Stage acoustically transparent projection screen
- RBH speakers (qty = 7). The center channel is behind the screen.
- Hsu VTF 2 - MK3 subwoofer
- Emotiva XPA-3 and Emotiva UPA-7 power amps

The HT room is very dark... no windows, black ceiling, and dark burgundy walls. Five of the speakers are in-wall, and all wiring is in the walls. Looks pretty nice, if I must say.

[thirdname]

I have a collection of audio equipment, almost all of it bought used. I watch Craigslist for good deals, and buy at prices where I can sell it for a profit if I don't like it or if I need money or space. There are some amazing deals on Craigslist if you live in a big metro area and know what to look for. My stuff is way better than I could have afforded new.

Right now my main 5.1, soon to be 7.1 system uses Energy Connoisseur series speakers (C-3, etc.)

[Magiver]

I have a pair of Bose 10.2 speakers which was their only attempt at a monitor class speaker. For whatever reason they didn't pursue this market. They deserve a better amp then the Nakamichi receiver feeding them but it was all I could afford.

It's a unique set up with an 8" side-firing mid range speaker and 2 tweeters angled to give great coverage. The sweet spot is very wide. The stereo imaging is phenomenal.

[Icerigger]

Does this count as a "state of the art" system?



http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7230/7...4e350747_z.jpg


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7254/6...844127fd_z.jpg


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7043/6...d9294992_z.jpg

It does look nice in the living room.

[ralph124c]

Have you ever come across a Sequeiros receiver? These things were limited production, insanely expensive, and loaded with high-tech eye candy (that had a mini-CRT display showing the distortion level (or something else).
AS for B&O, Philips bought them out, and subsequently, B&O used Philips ICs, audio amplifiers, and power supplies.

[Attack from the 3rd dimension]

Originally Posted by Borzo

I think people value convenience more than quality. Back in the day, you had to set aside time and sit at home to listen to music. But now, you can just take it with you on the bus/train/car. But most of these places have huge amounts of background noise, however - and as a result, peoples' need for quality has taken a backseat.

This is my thought as well, especially since you still see very hotsy-totsy headphones being sold. Sequester yourself in your best possible mobile audio world.

[msmith537]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

We've got shit to do, and we'd rather be able to take all the music we own wherever we go than listen to it in uber-squiddly-ultra-super-high fidelity. Especially since we're probably too drunk or high to appreciate the nuances anyway.

That's admirable. Because we never got drunk or high back in the day listening to Pink Floyd, Rush or Motley Crue.

But yeah, nowadays you can get about as good of sound out of PC spearkers or one of those iPod docking stations. We didn't have any of that when I was in college. You had to buy the whole CD player, tuner, amp, tower speakers combo. And if you were going to buy all that, you might as well muy shit that lasts.

The exception I can think of is home theater surround sound.

[moldmonkey]

I still have my Klipsch KG2 speakers I bought in 1990(?) while in the Army. I left my Luxman integrated amp at home because it needed repairs and my Mom threw it out.
The speakers are hooked up to the Sony receiver I replaced it with out in my shop building.
They used to be part of the TV setup but SWMBO didn't like the look. I most often use it to play music off my Ipod (through the DAT channel, that idea didn't exactly take off.) I still have a CD player and turntable around somewhere.

I used to read Stereo Review and lust after the top-end stuff. There was a store in Monterrey CA that carried McIntosh (sp.) where I loved to window shop. Stereo Review had great album reviews and I discovered music that I never would have otherwise. I do remember one article that was honest and said that the nuances of the high end stuff were beyond the hearing of the average person. That reality and the cost kept me from buying anymore equipment.

Nowdays the convenience of having a bunch of music on a Ipod and listening to it anywhere I go trumps the lesser sound quality.

[casdave]

Ralph124c

Are you trolling, I ask because the comments you have made twice, the second without any reference to a refutation by me, strikes me as either wilful ignorance or a deliberate attempt to get a reaction.

In particular

Philips bought them out, and subsequently, B&O used Philips ICs, audio amplifiers, and power supplies.

This statement is not true at any level, B&O is still an independent manufacturer and the fact that this or any other company that uses components manufactured by a third party does not have the slightest bearing on the ownership of the company.

Since I have seen Phillips parts in many other mainstream manufacturers products, from microwave ovens, through radios, radars medical equipment,photocopiers to high power heavy duty power generation and distribution electronics are you seriously suggesting that they too are all owned by Phillips? I'll bet Trane (a division of Ingersol- Rand) would be most interested in your conclusions.

Perhaps all the major component manufacturers have joint ownership of end product manufacturers, Siemens, Intel, Texas instruments, International semiconductors, Sharp, Sony, Ferranti, et al perhaps they all work together to claim ownership of Apple, Sony, Quad, Pace, and every other electronic end user manufacturer.

Your points are wrong, badly made and stupid - please cease and desist spreading ignorance!

BTW Crafterman That Sansui system is still worth over $5000 if its in pristine condition today - and I really wish I owned one.

[Crafter_Man]

Originally Posted by casdave

Ralph124cBTW Crafterman That Sansui system is still worth over $5000 if its in pristine condition today - and I really wish I owned one.

A couple years ago I sold the BA-3000 amp for $1000 on eBay. I still have the pre-amp, which is actually a CA-2000 (not CA-3000 - my bad). Other than some dirty pots and switches, it still works well. I'd like to get rid of it.

[msmith537]

Originally Posted by casdave

This is a myth.

Unless you wish to consider the manufacturers of almost every hifi system to be made up of Phillips parts.

Sadly, the cost of B&O on EBAY is not all that cheap either, for Hifi that is getting on for 30 years old - and it is worth comparing the cost of it to all the other stuff that was on the market at the time - actually you don't see much becuase most of it is worthless. Check out how much JVC is on there, or maybe Sanyo, then compare the prices.

You need to remember that the patents and standards for the cassette and the audio CD and most of the VHS and betamax recorders are all owned by Phillips, and that anything using these as major parts of their systems either uses Phillips components directly, or pays a royalty - all of them without any exceptions whatsover.

Since I own and have repaired many hifi systems, and I am very well aware of the manufacturers of the components from which they are made, your statement Ralph is an extreme exagerration of the truth.

Care to apply that statement to SONY, BOSE, Yamaha, Akai, Sansui and just about every other manufacturer, because it is as true for them as for B & O.

Are we also going to say that all these manufactuers were just rebadged Siemens products, because gues who made many of the semi-conductors for them?

I'll even mention a specific component for you, the earlier laser head mechanism the CD 104 was a Phillips produced part, however it was used by many other companies.

Its almost like saying that the Land Rover is a Buick since it used the Buick engine on license, even though it was used in a modified form, yet no-one would truly decribe Land rovers as Buicks.

To link B&O to Phillips is to attempt to do something very similar.

Even so, even if it were rebadged Phillips, what is does reveal is the sneering contempt held by so-called 'experts' in audio engineering who have never taken the real trouble to attend high level college or university courses and do the hard work to understand the design, construction and the real meanings of specifications.If Phillips sounds good, then it sounds good, the badge is completely irrelevant. Sneer on dude!

What has always mattered is the sound quality that can be objectively measured, not opinionised. Hifi buffs are self educated idiots with lots of prejudices and no formal technical knowledge - they are wannabee technicians who can't actually cut it when it comes down to the maths. They speak with an authority that conceals their ignorance.

This, as you have probably guessed, is one of my pet peeves. I hate the approach of the 'faux engineer' because it is unscientific, because it is the easy way out of doing the hard graft it takes to understand a complex subject. Its the sort of lax thinking that leads to the conspiracy theorist, to the fools thinking that sitting in their homes and looking at a few charts and images, they can debunk the idea that we went to the moon, or a host of other stupid pseudoscience trends.

Knowledge is hard won, it is far easier to have a little bit of stolen glory by pretending to know something, by repeating some canard that has been smokescreened in some meaningless pseudo-gobbledygook. The hifi world is awash with such people.

B&O stuff was expensive, and still is, you can get more for your money over the shorter term, but other stuff tends not to last as long or hold its value as long and also other stuff soon looks old.

Even so there is some better sounding stuff out there, plenty of it - but the stuff that sounds better and lasts as long also holds its value too, you just look up some of the Audio Fidelity stuff, or Quad, or NAIM - in fact this is likely to be even more expensive than B&O - but at least is can measure objectively why it is better with the right equipment - it is not a matter of opinion.

I just wanted something to play the new Shins CD on.

[Munch]

Originally Posted by casdave

Ralph124c

...

Your points are wrong, badly made and stupid - please cease and desist spreading ignorance!

I see you've never encountered ralph before...

[control-z]

I have an old BSR receiver and equalizer from the late 80's/early 90's. I wish it had more inputs but damned if it still doesn't look fairly good, it doesn't look dated.