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  #51  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:24 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
If the OP had been, "Can I Get Out Of This Marriage??" most of you would be suggesting getting a good lawyer, dump the bitch and move on with your life.
I doubt any of you would be saying, "Suck it up. Grow some balls. You said "I Do" and now you have to live with her even though you hate her guts."
Well, the problem is they don't throw you in Leavenworth for leaving your wife.
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  #52  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:43 PM
iamthewalrus(:3= iamthewalrus(:3= is offline
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This is pure and total bullshit propagated by the government to guilt wartime soldiers into not deserting. I quit the USAF and am doing just fine with a well-paying job, a good education, a nice house, two cars, a loving girlfriend, and four cats. Am I a loser?
I don't know... Four cats?*

To the OP: I've not been in the military, but I've definitely made commitments that I later regretted. I think everyone has. Sometimes the best path is to stick it out. Sometimes the best path is to be honest, admit you made a mistake, and get out of it. However it ends up, whatever you decide, you don't have to let it define your life. If you quit the military, it doesn't mean you're "a quitter." It doesn't mean that you'll be shiftless layabout for your whole life. Similarly, staying in the military and being unhappy for six years won't necessarily build character, either.

I'd also suggest not half-assing your way out of it. Don't try to fail a drug test or try to fail PT unless you've really exhausted all other options. Everyone in this thread has suggested talking to people who are in a position to help you. That's good advice. Regardless of how things turn out, those people can and will help you. They'll either help you to make the best of a bad situation, they'll help you to grow into enjoying what you thought was a bad situation, or they'll help you get out of it. It can be daunting to tell people you made a mistake and you want out, but it's not like you can keep this a secret. They'll know if you just start screwing up on purpose.

One of the hardest things I've had to learn is how to tell people what you want when you know it's not what they want to hear.

Finally, have a plan and some goals for after. When you're in a bad situation, it can be easy to think only of escape without actually having something better to move on to. If you only have something to run away from and not something to move toward, things are not likely to get better very quickly. Often, having that plan will make it a lot easier to make it through the commitment, and make it easier to assert your desire not to do so. If you have something to look forward to, you can look at each day of your commitment as moving you forward to that goal, or you can become excited enough not to want to wait.

Best of luck.

*I kid, I kid. I love cats.
  #53  
Old 04-17-2012, 01:50 PM
Agent Foxtrot Agent Foxtrot is offline
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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
If the OP had been, "Can I Get Out Of This Marriage??" most of you would be suggesting getting a good lawyer, dump the bitch and move on with your life.
I doubt any of you would be saying, "Suck it up. Grow some balls. You said "I Do" and now you have to live with her even though you hate her guts."

The kid thinks he made a mistake. He wants out. Playing macho man and slapping him upside the head with platitudes about honor and duty isn't going to change his mind or help him one iota.
Exactly what I wanted to say, but you said it infinitely better. Thank you.

Chefguy, do you intend to respond to my post?
  #54  
Old 04-17-2012, 02:42 PM
aerodave aerodave is offline
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Relief View Post
You are never going to know the horrors of life without air conditioning.
Wait a minute. I work (as a civilian) in a shitty old Air Force building, and our air conditioning is broken as much as it's working. Climate control is not this base's forte.

  #55  
Old 04-18-2012, 12:23 AM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is online now
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If the OP had asked about quitting college, my advice would be the same: what's your plan B? and if you don't have one, stick it out until you do have a plan B.

My brother dropped out of college without a backup plan. All he knew was that he didn't want to go to college, but didn't know what he did want to do. It took him years to get his shit together. I was the same way, I spent my early 20s not doing much of anything, it sends ripples throughout the rest of your life.
  #56  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:21 AM
Quartz Quartz is online now
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Can we backtrack a little? Why exactly do you think you've made a mistake? What is it about your position that you so dislike? "Everything" is not a valid answer.
  #57  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:22 AM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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I'm not exactly clear about what the OP doesn't like about the Air Force. It sort of just sounds like he "just doesn't like his job". If you don't like it because you find it stressful and don't like being told what to do, I don't think getting a discharge will help. Civilian jobs have the same stresses, plus the added bonus of the potential for being discharged at any time and we don't care if you can actually feed, house and clothe yourself with what we pay you. The one advantage is you can leave if you want.

madmonk28 is kind of right. Sometimes you're just better off "getting your shit together" while finishing something you hate that will put you in a better position when your shit is finally ready to be together. I hate the military/school/my job so I'm going to drop out and become an unemployed drifter isnt much of a plan.

Last edited by msmith537; 04-18-2012 at 03:25 AM..
  #58  
Old 04-18-2012, 08:03 AM
Johnny L.A. Johnny L.A. is online now
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Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post
[Becoming] an unemployed drifter isnt much of a plan.
It worked for Kwai Chang Caine. Only he did seem to get into a lot of trouble.
  #59  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:07 AM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
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jampaintball-

I did five years in the Navy- there were many times I desperately wanted to get out. But now that I'm out, it was pretty much the best decision I could have made as a young man. First, I have a very good job now, which I only could have gotten with my specific Navy experience. Second, the worst day at work now feels a million times easier than an average day at work was while I was in the Navy (even in port). That second part really seems to do wonders for my happiness.

So basically it sucks now, but now won't last forever, and not only will it probably get better the more time in you have (as long as you make an effort to have a good attitude), your life will get WAY better once you're out- and it will get better BECAUSE you stayed in and did your duty.
  #60  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:47 AM
2gigch1 2gigch1 is offline
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Many of the best things in life come with age & experience. The op has neither.

The best course of action would likely be:

1) Converse with everyone that has been suggested to see if some relief is available.
2) Create a plan of action near and long term to help define what the op wishes to accomplish and how he will get there.
3) Most importantly, once a plan has been formulated, wait a month or two and see how it all looks then.

The op appears to have a problem with rash decisions and impatience. Neither will serve him well here. As has been stated before, civilian life isn't a cakewalk either, and one solution - finish the term and give it some effort - is not a bad choice for the op and those he promised to serve.

In the end the op will have gained age and experience, and will be a lot further along in obtaining the life he wants.
  #61  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:56 AM
Chessic Sense Chessic Sense is offline
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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
If the OP had been, "Can I Get Out Of This Marriage??" most of you would be suggesting getting a good lawyer, dump the bitch and move on with your life.
I doubt any of you would be saying, "Suck it up. Grow some balls. You said "I Do" and now you have to live with her even though you hate her guts."

The kid thinks he made a mistake. He wants out. Playing macho man and slapping him upside the head with platitudes about honor and duty isn't going to change his mind or help him one iota.
What if the marriage was only intended to last 6 years, and several of us have been married to this woman before, and we'd also thought about leaving her, and yet we were glad we stuck it out? Then do you think we'd say "Suck it up. Grow some balls."?
  #62  
Old 04-18-2012, 12:06 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is online now
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Well, maybe. Must be something to her if you all married her, right?
  #63  
Old 04-18-2012, 02:26 PM
ExTank ExTank is offline
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Six-year Army vet former tanker chiming in.

I wasn't in your shoes; I was where I wanted to be, doing what I wanted to do. Was it all sunshine and lollipops, all the time? No fucking way. There were plenty of times I hated life and was miserable. Try changing track on an M-1 Abrams in knee-deep freezing mud at 0300 after going without sleep for 24+ hours, just to get done in time to launch the morning attack at 0500.

But on balance, it was great.

So I'm in the "Man Up and Gut It Out" crowd, with the following proviso: if there's stress and unhappiness and depression, get help! There's plenty of medical resources and counselling available to you to help you deal with all that stuff.

But I would also ask: what specifically is stressing you out? If it's "getting up in the morning, getting dressed, and going to work," then you are going to find very few sympathetic ears.

If it's homesickness, lonliness, etc., well, that too is part of growing up and being out-in-the-world on your own.

If it's service-specific issues, or job-specific ones, talk to your squad leader (or whatever the Air Force equivalent is) or platoon sergeant or First Sergeant. If they are unable to help you out, check on in-service counselling and get help there.

And in the mean time, look at it like this: you are not necessarily your job, or vice-versa. Enroll in your local community college. Learn to play a musical instrument. Look around your area where you are stationed and go see some sights. As mentioned upthread, learn to "Play The Game." Do your job, however mind-numbing or boring it may be, do it well and with minimal fuss, and collect your pay when it comes in. Try to learn something about it, some skill set that you may carry with you into your next job that lets you gank the HR bitches for more payolla.

There's a lot of military/medical resources available to help you cope with the decision you have already made and agreed to commit to. And even a small attitude adjustment on your part (which said resources can help you with) can change your outlook from "gloomy/depressed/trapped" to "holy shit there's a lot of opportunity here for me to take advantage of."
  #64  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:45 PM
Ethilrist Ethilrist is online now
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Originally Posted by jampaintball View Post
its like every day im either fine with it all or i hate it and want out desperately
I'm not trying to discount your service or the stress involved in a military occupation, but that's how I've felt about most of the jobs I've had...
  #65  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:44 PM
Boyo Jim Boyo Jim is offline
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Originally Posted by madmonk28 View Post
jampaintball, can I ask what your plan is if you do get out? If you don't have one, you probably should consider sticking it out and using the time to figure out what you want to do afterwards.

Don't be that guy who goes back to his hometown with no plan, drifting from crappy job to crappy job and living with his folks the rest of your life.
This -- don't get out until at least you have a solid idea what to do when you ARE out.
  #66  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:12 AM
TokyoBayer TokyoBayer is online now
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First, I would suggest you get screened for depression. Some days are fine and some days are not can be symptom of depression. I've never been in the military, but it seems that they are more understanding these days.

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Originally Posted by jampaintball View Post
ive been off and on with this whole thing for some time now, its like every day im either fine with it all or i hate it and want out desperately, idk if thats normal for people who serve but it seems to me like everyone loves it
Lots of people act like they love it, but I would bet the family farm that there are others on your base who feel the same, but just are better at hiding it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Foxtrot View Post
Talk to your Shirt. Get it on the table right now that you do not want to be in anymore.
Easier said than done, but before doing that, I would really spend some time figuring out exactly why you can't stand it. This is one area where talking to a counselor or chaplain can help you clarify the reasons. It sounds like you will need some damn good reasons to quit, so understanding them yourself will make a better case than what you have outlined here. If you do quit, you will need a Plan B for work, since all the money which grows on trees has already been picked. Understanding yourself will go a long ways to help yourself develop that Plan B. You may not like it for reasons which are specific to the military, to large organizations, conservative values, etc.

Many people go though this by a process of elimination. They work for a while at a job, get fired or quit, sign up for the next and repeat the process. To be fair, I was far older than you before I figured out what I like to do.

Quote:
Edit: The General Under Honorable discharge didn't hurt me one bit. In fact, just the fact that I had military experience was impressive to a lot of employers. Just make sure you downplay it on your résumé... stick it way at the bottom under Education or bury it amongst your employment history.
On these board, there a quite a few of us who have experience hiring people. If you get a job which you do well (and hopefully like) and keep it for four or five years, the military part will be ancient history. However, this trick is going to be getting that next job. For most entry level jobs, we like to see some sort of sign that you will show up and do a decent job. One of the reasons why college helps is that it gives us an indication that you have the wherewithal to handle pressure and will show up every day. Service in the military can serve the same purpose.

You made a rash decision. That's what you're supposed to do at 18 or 19. However, don't make another one.

Good luck.
  #67  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:35 AM
Namkcalb Namkcalb is offline
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Well, if you asked this question a few years ago, I would have said you should allow yourself to be "caught" tongue-wrestling another airman.

Unfortunately, the law has changed. Fuck Obama!
SPOILER:
(that also would have got you discharged)
  #68  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:22 AM
DMark DMark is offline
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All of these comments beg the question:
Why can't you just quit any branch of the military?

I don't believe there is another job in the USA that doesn't allow someone to just up and quit. Perhaps the military would be a better place if it allowed those who don't want to be there to leave. I can imagine you would feel a lot better knowing that person who has your back in a crisis really WANTS to be there to have your back.

And while 99.9% of people in the military seem to grow into the job and do quite well, the newspapers never seem to lack for stories of idiots in the military who do something truly idiotic or criminally horrible, and maybe it might have been a great idea to have allowed those people the option of just quitting and walking away before they caused an international scandal.

Maybe I am naive, but the idea of forcing someone to stay where they don't want to be is never a good idea - and arming them to the tits while doing so seems to be an even stupider idea.
  #69  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:25 AM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is online now
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The military isn't just another job, though.
  #70  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:27 AM
Sicks Ate Sicks Ate is offline
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Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright View Post
The military isn't just another job, though.
It's an adventure.
  #71  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:45 AM
Boyo Jim Boyo Jim is offline
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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
All of these comments beg the question:
Why can't you just quit any branch of the military?

I don't believe there is another job in the USA that doesn't allow someone to just up and quit. Perhaps the military would be a better place if it allowed those who don't want to be there to leave. I can imagine you would feel a lot better knowing that person who has your back in a crisis really WANTS to be there to have your back.

And while 99.9% of people in the military seem to grow into the job and do quite well, the newspapers never seem to lack for stories of idiots in the military who do something truly idiotic or criminally horrible, and maybe it might have been a great idea to have allowed those people the option of just quitting and walking away before they caused an international scandal.

Maybe I am naive, but the idea of forcing someone to stay where they don't want to be is never a good idea - and arming them to the tits while doing so seems to be an even stupider idea.
What if 95% of your soldiers decide to quit just before a major attack?

Oh... peace! Never mind.
  #72  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:46 AM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is online now
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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
All of these comments beg the question:
Why can't you just quit any branch of the military?.....
I think retention might become a bit of a problem when a war started, which is pretty much when having a military really pays off. D-Day might have gone a little differently if most of the Allies decided military life wasn't for them the day before the invasion.
  #73  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:09 PM
mlees mlees is online now
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I served six years in the USN in the eighties. I made the decision to join long before I was able to, as college never interested me. (More school!!? Yuk!)

I knew boot camp was going to be stressful. It's intended to be. So it didn't bother me much.

But after that, there seemed (to me) to be a lot of pointless bullshit to have to put up with. There was also all the pettiness and "office" politics that humans seem to engage in outside the military. (Favoritism, people taking credit for other peoples work, etc.) In other words, service in the military wasn't what I expected it was going to be.

I developed a little bit of an attitude. (Muttering "Fuck this. Fuck the Navy!") I decided I was going to tough it out, and get a cushy job as an overpaid Tech Rep when I got out. I never got approached by the Command Career Counselor for reenlistment.

Once I got out, I realised it wasn't all that bad (I didn't have to serve in a combat area), and I miss the friends I made during that time. (Being unable to get that cushy job, and settling for minimum wage jobs for the next six years may have affected my view of my time in, too.) Of course, I don't miss standing watch from "Balls to Four", either.

Just be sure that whatever you are unhappy about is specific to the USAF, and not something you're going to find no matter where you work on the outside.
  #74  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:15 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
I don't believe there is another job in the USA that doesn't allow someone to just up and quit.
That's not entirely true. If you sign a contract promising to perform some specific job, you can't just walk away from it.
  #75  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:43 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is online now
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Well, the difference there is that walking away from an employment contract might get you sued for breach. Walking away from a military contract might get you sent to the clink for desertion.
  #76  
Old 04-19-2012, 04:45 PM
ExTank ExTank is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark View Post
All of these comments beg the question:
Why can't you just quit any branch of the military?
Do you even understand the purpose of a military?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark View Post
I don't believe there is another job in the USA that doesn't allow someone to just up and quit. Perhaps the military would be a better place if it allowed those who don't want to be there to leave. I can imagine you would feel a lot better knowing that person who has your back in a crisis really WANTS to be there to have your back.
The U.S. Armed Forces are already all-volunteer. Everyone who signed up wanted to be there. If they discover after-the-fact that they don't, there are certain legal remedies. But at that point, the military has invested considerable time, money, and effort training you. They have a right, and obligatioon to the tax-paying public, to ensure that they get a fair return on their investment, and have sufficient personnel to meet force level requirements

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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
And while 99.9% of people in the military seem to grow into the job and do quite well, the newspapers never seem to lack for stories of idiots in the military who do something truly idiotic or criminally horrible, and maybe it might have been a great idea to have allowed those people the option of just quitting and walking away before they caused an international scandal.
Why do you assume, or what evidence do you have, that the people causing these incidents of which you speak do so out of a desire to get out of the military?

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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
Maybe I am naive, but the idea of forcing someone to stay where they don't want to be is never a good idea - and arming them to the tits while doing so seems to be an even stupider idea.
There are also people who don't mind being in the military until it comes time to really do their jobs, such as the jobs that involve shooting other people, and being shot at by other people. If the soldiers who volunteered for those jobs suddenly decide they don't want to do that anymore, you no longer have a military force, but chaos.

Really, DMark, this is 101-level common sense. What are you really getting at?
  #77  
Old 04-19-2012, 06:31 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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Look, you absolutely can get out of the military right away if you're willing to accept an other-than-honorable discharge. Just keep telling everyone that you made a mistake and you want out of this chickenshit outfit and refuse to obey all orders, and pretty soon you'll find yourself on a streetcorner wearing civilian clothes with discharge papers in your hand.

Then what?
  #78  
Old 04-19-2012, 07:17 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chessic Sense View Post
What if the marriage was only intended to last 6 years, and several of us have been married to this woman before, and we'd also thought about leaving her, and yet we were glad we stuck it out? Then do you think we'd say "Suck it up. Grow some balls."?
See, here's the thing. I've had a number of (civilian) jobs that at one point or another I totally hated or felt infuriated about to the point of quitting at one point or another. Heck, I even hated my undergraduate major (structural engineering) to the point of quitting. But I stuck it out and actually finished a challenging degree from a prestigeous school and received pretty significant promotions at those jobs. I'm not a "life is to be endured, not enjoyed" type, but sometimes, it pays to just suck it up and stick with something if there is an end in sight.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:36 PM
foolsguinea foolsguinea is offline
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It depends on what his problem is. I would be dangerously unhappy in the USAF, because I don't agree with its mission and philosophy. That's different from self-doubt, or just finding your job unpleasant.

So it depends on where it is: "Being a grown-up sucks," is not, "Being in the service sucks," is not, "My assignment sucks," is not, "You know, I really, really am a pacifist now," is not, "I hate all of this and am only staying in long enough to get intel to sell al Qaeda so they kill everyone here."

And he may have to figure out which of those he really defaults to, because you can mistake one for the others.

Last edited by foolsguinea; 04-19-2012 at 08:40 PM..
  #80  
Old 04-19-2012, 08:48 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is online now
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I'm pretty sure if his problem was the USAF's mission and philosophy he wouldn't have signed up in the first place.
  #81  
Old 04-20-2012, 12:14 PM
DMark DMark is offline
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Originally Posted by ExTank View Post
Do you even understand the purpose of a military?
If the soldiers who volunteered for those jobs suddenly decide they don't want to do that anymore, you no longer have a military force, but chaos.

Really, DMark, this is 101-level common sense. What are you really getting at?
Hmm...so what you are saying is that anyone who voluntarily, on their own free will, signs up for the military to protect freedom - then immediately loses those rights?
You further imply allowing anyone to change their mind would be so widespread as to cause chaos?

Seriously, ExTank, this is 101-level utter nonsense. What are you really describing? This doesn't sound like a military comprised of dedicated defenders of freedom, it sounds more like a federal penitentiary.
  #82  
Old 04-20-2012, 12:40 PM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
Hmm...so what you are saying is that anyone who voluntarily, on their own free will, signs up for the military to protect freedom - then immediately loses those rights?
You further imply allowing anyone to change their mind would be so widespread as to cause chaos?

Seriously, ExTank, this is 101-level utter nonsense. What are you really describing? This doesn't sound like a military comprised of dedicated defenders of freedom, it sounds more like a federal penitentiary.
Well, yes. Yes, exactly. You sign away tons of rights when you join the military that the rest of us citizens enjoy.
  #83  
Old 04-20-2012, 01:22 PM
DMark DMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Zsofia View Post
Well, yes. Yes, exactly. You sign away tons of rights when you join the military that the rest of us citizens enjoy.
I am fully aware that there are very stringent rules and regulations when you enlist. There is no room for error and following orders is key in any job in the military.

All I am suggesting is forcing someone to remain in the military, when they have decided they no longer wish to be there, cannot be conducive to morale nor wise by having that weak link in the chain of command.

Perhaps allowing a yearly, short window of "opt out" might not be a horrible thing.
I can imagine that every person in the military has seen a few examples of people they wish would just go away. Getting rid of deadwood has always proven to improve efficiency and quality.

Why would it be so heinous to allow an enlistee the opportunity to leave?
Why would you possibly even want to keep someone who decidedly doesn't want to be there?
It just doesn't make good practical sense.
  #84  
Old 04-20-2012, 03:40 PM
ExTank ExTank is offline
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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
Seriously, ExTank, this is 101-level utter nonsense. What are you really describing? This doesn't sound like a military comprised of dedicated defenders of freedom, it sounds more like a federal penitentiary.
The U.S. Armed Forces weren't enacted and organized to practice democracy. You can voluntarily leave the military when your term of enlistment is up (or resign your commission, if you're an officer). Unless some sort of stop-gap policy is in place and you're committed "for the duration," like the people in WWII.

This notion that our servicemembers can leave the armed forces like it's a damned revolving door just because snuffy has a case of ass-hurt is ludicrous. When you join up, you raise your hand and pledge an oath. Like marriage, it is often "for better or worse." And too often like marriage, when it's bad, it's very bad. So allowing any swinging Richard the ability to just "opt out" when the going gets a tad rough is asinine.
  #85  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:21 PM
Poysyn Poysyn is offline
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Originally Posted by ExTank View Post
The U.S. Armed Forces weren't enacted and organized to practice democracy. You can voluntarily leave the military when your term of enlistment is up (or resign your commission, if you're an officer). Unless some sort of stop-gap policy is in place and you're committed "for the duration," like the people in WWII.

This notion that our servicemembers can leave the armed forces like it's a damned revolving door just because snuffy has a case of ass-hurt is ludicrous. When you join up, you raise your hand and pledge an oath. Like marriage, it is often "for better or worse." And too often like marriage, when it's bad, it's very bad. So allowing any swinging Richard the ability to just "opt out" when the going gets a tad rough is asinine.
The other issue is that everyone has moments that they want to quit, usually right after they have been beasted, right before they are about to be beasted again, or after training when they have to get used to the day-in-day-out part of garrison life. The OP did not start this thread screaming about how he hates all things military, rather that he "isn't happy" some of the time.

This may or may not be remedied by dishonaroble discharge, and the advice he is getting is getting some counseling and getting to the root of it first.

It's pretty common to not always find a great fit in your first career choice. Maybe it's the uniform, maybe it's not. Before you do something drastic, see if you can be sure.

Last edited by Poysyn; 04-20-2012 at 11:21 PM..
  #86  
Old 04-21-2012, 01:39 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark View Post
Perhaps allowing a yearly, short window of "opt out" might not be a horrible thing.

I can imagine that every person in the military has seen a few examples of people they wish would just go away. Getting rid of deadwood has always proven to improve efficiency and quality.
So what happens when this hypothetical "opt out" window opens and half the people scheduled to deploy to Iraq take it?
Quote:
Hmm...so what you are saying is that anyone who voluntarily, on their own free will, signs up for the military to protect freedom - then immediately loses those rights?
They don't lose their rights. They agree to waive some of them for a specified period of time.

For what it's worth, I think our military recruiting process is about the shadiest thing the government does. Recruiters all but lie to young, impressionable, impulsive people, and it's someone else's problem when those people realize they aren't getting what they signed up for.

I can maybe see some sort of policy where recruits get a general discharge if they opt out within 90 days of completing basic training (provided they agree to waive a portion of their back pay). But this "annual opt out" you propose is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
  #87  
Old 04-21-2012, 02:59 PM
Martin Hyde Martin Hyde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMark View Post
All of these comments beg the question:
Why can't you just quit any branch of the military?

I don't believe there is another job in the USA that doesn't allow someone to just up and quit. Perhaps the military would be a better place if it allowed those who don't want to be there to leave. I can imagine you would feel a lot better knowing that person who has your back in a crisis really WANTS to be there to have your back.

And while 99.9% of people in the military seem to grow into the job and do quite well, the newspapers never seem to lack for stories of idiots in the military who do something truly idiotic or criminally horrible, and maybe it might have been a great idea to have allowed those people the option of just quitting and walking away before they caused an international scandal.

Maybe I am naive, but the idea of forcing someone to stay where they don't want to be is never a good idea - and arming them to the tits while doing so seems to be an even stupider idea.
As retired career Army I can say that in certain circumstances from a functional perspective the Army would have been better off just letting certain people quit. However that could cause a spiraling morale problem for the people who don't quit.

The historical and real reasons you can't just quit the military is since basically "time immemorial" people signed up to be men-at-arms, legionnaires, soldiers, supply clerks et. al. because it brought consistent food, income, chances at greater wealth and etc. I'm not saying true patriotism or sense of duty doesn't exist, but I am saying throughout human history military forces have by and large been filled by persons who want to get something out of it in a tangible form that they would have difficult getting elsewhere in society.

If you let all of these persons simply leave on demand, then they would serve up until battle was imminent and then quit. That just simply is not a practical policy for military forces of the world.

You don't want someone beside you in combat who doesn't want to be there, but historically if only people who wanted to be there were present you'd have a hard time fielding armies, and unless the enemy also had "at will" enlistments you could be in for a real world of hurt.
  #88  
Old 05-09-2013, 10:13 AM
BIG D BIG D is offline
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My Opinion

I believe if you want to get out then that is up to you. Dont let all these other people tell you any different. Ive been in the military for a number of years now and Ive seen all the stupid shit that goes on and the stress it can cause. I have seen a number of these forums and I wish people would actually help people when they have a question instead of criticizing the person. I hate that the military tells you to ask them for help but when you do they really dont do anything. Its always whats best for the military and thats bullshit they should listen and put the persons best interest first not the militarys. To all the people that are all abou the military good for you but help people when they ask a question dont just tell them to suck it up or honor your commitment. I believe thats just stupid. This is just my opinion and from my experience. I say if you want out get out and dont let anyone tell you that you are a coward or you dont have balls. The military is not all its cracked up to be.
  #89  
Old 05-09-2013, 01:29 PM
cochrane cochrane is offline
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This thread has been dead for over a year, or what we refer to here on the Dope as a "zombie." The OP hasn't returned to update us with his status, but whatever he's decided to do he's probably done it by now. But he hasn't been back since April, 2012, so we just don't know right now.
  #90  
Old 05-09-2013, 03:44 PM
Ellen Cherry Ellen Cherry is offline
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Since the OP hasn't been back, I'm going to close this. If anyone wants to talk about getting out of the military, they are of course free to open a new thread.
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