The 2012 SDMB Presidential Debate--more fun than a barrel full of independents!

[Tripler]

Good evening!

I've recently re-announced my campaign for the White House, and Snowmaster has stepped up to the plate as well.

He's graciously allowed me to nominate a debate moderator, and I would suggest Rico for no other reason than that he's fairly well known, and I have no ties to the guy. That, and Gwen Ifills is kinda busy. . .

I respectfully suggest a format: Rico picks eight questions at random, from Dopers posting them in this thread, and any debaters get a 750-word* (thereabouts) response. They also get a 250-word* rebuttal. We close everything up, and do a 'Cecil Primary' election later on in a poll for the Great One's endorsemen.

Thoughts?

Tripler
* Note: Word quantities can be changed. I just threw 'em out there to get the ball rolling.

[snowmaster]

I'd like to thank my opponent for getting our debate process moving along. I second the nomination of Rico as moderator and ask him to post here whether he shall accept. While remaining impartial, I ask him to press both Tripler and I for answers when he feels we've avoided the question.As I posted in my announcement thread, I'd like us to get to many more than just 8 of your pressing questions and suggest slightly more pithy answers. My opponent and I are working on a date and time and should he accept, we'll need to be sure our moderator is available as well. Say Tripler, what time zone do you schedule your life to? EST here.

With the technical rubbish out of the way, let the questions begin! Keep in mind if your question is more than two or three sentances or has more parts than the final question on the movie Quiz Show, the moderator may redact yout question in the interests of time.

[etv78]

Should the U.S. withdraw from NAFTA and the WTO?

[Measure for Measure]

Obama proposed comprehensive health care reform, including a public option. Lieberman threatened a filibuster, so the public option was stripped away, leaving us with Romneycare. As President would you,

a) Keep Romneycare,
b) Push for Obamacare,
c) Overturn Romneycare, including the mandate to buy health insurance.

If c) would you permit insurance companies to turn down people because they have pre-existing conditions? If not, how would you deal with adverse selection issues? After all, what's to stop people from buying insurance only when they are sick? Also, how would you cover the rise in the budget deficit caused by the repeal of the Affordable Choice Act?

[Tripler]

Originally Posted by snowmaster

I'd like to thank my opponent for getting our debate process moving along. I second the nomination of Rico as moderator and ask him to post here whether he shall accept. While remaining impartial, I ask him to press both Tripler and I for answers when he feels we've avoided the question.

Awesome! And I agree--if we're more Waffle than an IHOP on a subject, I would implore him to kick us in the shins.

Originally Posted by snowmaster

As I posted in my announcement thread, I'd like us to get to many more than just 8 of your pressing questions and suggest slightly more pithy answers.

I threw eight out as a 'starter' number. I'd like to keep it around a dozen or so, just for this first round of debates. We can always start another debate thread later. . .

Originally Posted by snowmaster

My opponent and I are working on a date and time and should he accept, we'll need to be sure our moderator is available as well. Say Tripler, what time zone do you schedule your life to? EST here.

Here's the rub: I've got a real-world business trip coming up from the 29th to the 3rd, and I can't guarantee I'll have internet access during that time, or the hours at night to partake (it's an "in the field" business trip). That's why I lean towards having Rico post a few questions, and we post our replies in a decent time frame. I mean, real life does have it's demands on us. . . But I am in Utah, so I'm MST. I'm usually at work from 0630 to 1730, and have an hour or so at night for 'typing time'. I don't have time for too much research, so the voters are gonna get it straight and unfiltered from me.

Anyhow, that business trip is the only major, unpredictable obstacle in the way for me. Otherwise, I'm open.

Tripler
I'm like a kickass cup of black coffee: hot, energetic, straight, and unfiltered.

[Tripler]

Bump.

So, we gonna do this or what?

Tripler
- Squeaky wheel.

[BrainGlutton]

I promise to model my Administration on the papacy of Alexander Borgia.

[dropzone]

Trip, we go way back and I prefer you over any of the Borgias. ICK!

I tried to explain our Lutheranism vs Catholicism to my daughter, including Luther's many objections, but I fell asleep.

[foolsguinea]

I found snowmaster's campaign declaration to be a bit prudish,^* so I will endorse Tripler BrainBorgia someone other than him, but I would like support for my campaign for a Congressional seat.

I am pretty much with the Pirate Party on IP issues, and for socialized medicine.

Also I want (in theory) a large negative income tax/Basic Income Guarantee, and to pay off the national debt and start a sovereign wealth fund. But I'm not going to get all of that.

[Tripler]

Originally Posted by dropzone

Trip, we go way back and I prefer you over any of the Borgias. ICK!

I tried to explain our Lutheranism vs Catholicism to my daughter, including Luther's many objections, but I fell asleep.

Sweet. Did she pass out too?

Originally Posted by foolsguinea

I found snowmaster's campaign declaration to be a bit prudish,^* so I will endorse Tripler BrainBorgia someone other than him, but I would like support for my campaign for a Congressional seat.

I am pretty much with the Pirate Party on IP issues, and for socialized medicine.

Also I want (in theory) a large negative income tax/Basic Income Guarantee, and to pay off the national debt and start a sovereign wealth fund. But I'm not going to get all of that.

Well, I will take that as a win on principle. So long as yer not voting for either of the machines, I'll dig that!

Tripler
Winning with leaps, and bounds, and and baby steps.

[snowmaster]

Originally Posted by Tripler

Bump.

So, we gonna do this or what?

Tripler
- Squeaky wheel.

Youbecha. We need a few more dopers to submit some good questions... I'd like our debate to be more than our moderator having us run down our platforms. I'm available any evening as soon as we have enough questions, excepting Saturday night when strangely enough I will be busy both gambling and volunteering for a charitable organization. I imagine Sunday evening would be inadvisable given that I'm told there's some local trifle of a sporting event going on.

[Tripler]

Originally Posted by snowmaster

Youbecha. We need a few more dopers to submit some good questions... I'd like our debate to be more than our moderator having us run down our platforms. I'm available any evening as soon as we have enough questions, excepting Saturday night when strangely enough I will be busy both gambling and volunteering for a charitable organization. I imagine Sunday evening would be inadvisable given that I'm told there's some local trifle of a sporting event going on.

Alright--I'm back. I heard there was something about a Big Game going on today, but I don't see the Devils or the Red Wing being advertised, and it's too early for the Finals yet--hell, the haven't even started the playoffs! I don't know what all the hullabaloo is about. . . but I'm sure I'll enjoy the relative quiet.

Anyways, I'm in. I do want to start getting a few questions rolling. Have you heard from Rico yet?

Tripler
- Always your best third choice.

[Tripler]

So here's a suggestion: how's about we do the thing Tax Day weekend (April 13-15th)? Yes, I sometimes consider Friday a weekend day.

Tripler
. . still no word from a moderator?

[Sage Rat]

Well does Rico know that he's been nominated for this?

[YogSosoth]

How would your administration act if you knew for sure that Iran is within 1 year of a nuclear bomb?

[Rico]

I just found out.

I sent Trip a message that I must respectfully decline this great honor at this time.

My apologies. Besides, I told Trip that I'm about as political as the cat that's clawing my leg right now.

This would have been fun.

[Jonathan Chance]

I am hyper political AND have actually designed, moderated and been a panelist for candidate debates up to the Congressional level. If the candidates will have me I will volunteer to do my best to ruin their days as I have those of others foolish enough to presume to answer my questions.

What say you?

[Sage Rat]

Sounds good to me.

[Tripler]

Jonathan, you're willing to moderate? I go for it.

Tripler
Sweeeeet.

[Jonathan Chance]

Suggested Rules.

1. I ask up to 10 questions. You MUST answer them in 750 words or less.
2. Non moderators may ask questions and you MAY answer those.
3. To any answer the other candidate may reply with 250 words.
4. I may choose to follow up any answer with a 'clarification' question that must be on topic. This is called the 'That doesn't really answer my question, Senator' rule.

Other ideas? And are we limited to two candidates?

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance

And are we limited to two candidates?

Not so far as I'm aware.

[Jonathan Chance]

OK, so we need at least two candidates.

Tripler
Snowmaster if he ever shows
???
???

Otherwise do the rules agree with you all?

[elucidator]

Originally Posted by Rico

I just found out.

I sent Trip a message that I must respectfully decline this great honor at this time.

My apologies. Besides, I told Trip that I'm about as political as the cat that's clawing my leg right now.

This would have been fun.

Mother of Mercy, is this the end of Rico?

[snowmaster]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance

OK, so we need at least two candidates.

Tripler
Snowmaster if he ever shows
???
???

Otherwise do the rules agree with you all?

I'm fine with the tax weekend date, the rules and our new moderator. And of course I'm gonna show!

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance

OK, so we need at least two candidates.

Tripler
Snowmaster if he ever shows
???
???

Otherwise do the rules agree with you all?

I am announcing my candidacy for SDMB Presidency.

[Stelios]

Fuck it, why not? I'm in.

[Jonathan Chance]

All right that gives us four.

Stelios
Sage Rat
Snowmaster
Tripler

So again, our rules:

1. I ask up to 10 questions. You MUST answer them in 750 words or less.
2. Non moderators may ask questions and you MAY answer those.
3. To any answer the other candidate may reply ONCE with 250 words.
4. I may choose to follow up any answer with a 'clarification' question that must be on topic. This is called the 'That doesn't really answer my question, Senator' rule.

Random folks may submit questions for me to consider making 'official'. PM me those, please.

[Tripler]

*bump*

So. . . when do we want to start?

Tripler
Let the hand-wringing begin.

[Jonathan Chance]

OK, I will private message all of the candidates with the rules for sign off since it hasn't be happening here.

[Jonathan Chance]

I have just sent this private message off to our participants:

OK, you, fool that you are, have agreed to be a participant in the 2012 Presidential Debate. Please respond to this message that you are still willing to participate and agree to the below rules:

1. The debate will commence on April 15, 2012.
2. Over the course of time I will ask at least 10 questions. You, as the candidate, are REQUIRED to answer these questions. Your answers must be 750 words or less.
3. You may respond to another candidates answers with a rebuttal of no more than 250 words. If you do so you must quote the other candidates answer IN FULL in your rebuttal.
4. At my discretion I may ask you for clarification of your answer. This is called the 'That really doesn't answer my question, Senator' rule. You are REQUIRED to respond to my request for clarification.
5. Non-moderators, the audience, may toss questions into the discussion but you are NOT required to respond to them unless they are reaffirmed by me in my role as moderator of the debate.

Scheduling:
1. I will begin asking questions on April 15, 2012.
2. I intend to ask one question per day, along with follow ups, for at least 10 days. I reserve the right to ask more than one question per day depending on traffic and so forth.

Warm up:

1. Please choose your party name. Make it fictional so I don't get wrapped up in realities.
2. On or about April 10, 2012 I will create the official 'Debate Thread'. Please be prepared to make a brief opening statement of 500 words or less outlining your party's basic stance on the role of government and so forth. That can give the audience and myself some guidance on what to expect.

I should note that I already have one question from a bystander in the queue. I look forward to seeing how this works out.

[Jonathan Chance]

Ok, so far Sage Rat and Stelios have checked in!

[Jonathan Chance]

Tripler has now checked in. I await only snowmaster

[snowmaster]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance

Tripler has now checked in. I await only snowmaster

You await no more. I stand ready.

[Jonathan Chance]

Indeed I do.

Over the next week I will attempt to drum up questions and interest.

You have until April 10 to select party names and prepare your ending statements. Get cracking.

[Tripler]

I'm watching for that new thread, chomping at the political bit.

I've got my opening pitch all warmed up and ready to go.

. . . but then again, I recall a li'l something I surmised from some of my history lessons: "Only an idiot would run for office."

Tripler
The lesser of several idiots.

[Jonathan Chance]

Just locking up some promotional work. Be patient, Trip.

[gamerunknown]

I guess we may as well use this thread for discussion in order to keep the actual election thread as focused as possible.

Which candidates look best to you guys from their opening statements?

To me it looks like there are two relatively conservative candidates (Tripler and snowmaster), one that will attempt to be independent (Sage Rat) and one that is quite left-wing by US standards (Stelios).

I'd be interested in seeing each of their results on the political compass, if they think it is an accurate measure of political alignment (I think it is biased towards anarchosyndicalism or at least left wing views, since the company that produced it also publishes a newspaper supportive of Obama).

[Stelios]

Originally Posted by gamerunknown

I'd be interested in seeing each of their results on the political compass

Ask, and ye shall receive.

[Sage Rat]

From an old poll on the forums. I appear to be the only candidate who was present for it.

http://www.1728.org/SD.htm

[septimus]

Originally Posted by gamerunknown

Which candidates look best to you guys from their opening statements?

... one that is quite left-wing by US standards (Stelios).

There's little, if any, doubt which of the four most Dopers will support. stelios sounds very much like what we used to call "moderate Republican." If that's now "quite left-wing" I pity America.

Two of the opening statements were so teeming with sweet-sounding but meaningless platitudes (e.g. "genuine positive change that is good for citizens and good for businesses"), I think Moderators should add a Warning for Diabetics to the thread title. What's their position on Motherhood and Apple Pie?

[Stelios]

Originally Posted by septimus

Two of the opening statements were so teeming with sweet-sounding but meaningless platitudes (e.g. "genuine positive change that is good for citizens and good for businesses"), I think Moderators should add a Warning for Diabetics to the thread title. What's their position on Motherhood and Apple Pie?

In fairness, we're trying to do this debate by the numbers, and are all playing the role of professional politician. I'm sure there's nothing my fellow debaters would find more satisfying than to be able to say "The country's fucked up and here's why. Drop your cocks, grab your socks and let's fix the motherfucker!", but that wouldn't really fit with the tone of your average Presidential debate

[gamerunknown]

Originally Posted by septimus

What's their position on Motherhood

This candidate believes that motherhood is an integral part of the American identity. We support traditional definitions of marriage and seek to promote it wherever possible! Except where it would actually require anything other than platitudes, or the mother wants to marry a woman. After all, we didn't have founding mothers, did we? The Constitution quite clearly says all men were created equal. The one more sacred document than that is even more transparent when it comes to women subverting our morals and Ole Buzzy Ginsberg would do well to read 1 Tim 2:12.

and Apple Pie?

Regulation of apple pie is not specifically listed in article 1 section 8 of the constitution, but it's fairly clear that production of apple pie is responsible for the creation of American jobs. It'd be irresponsible of us to not use earmarks in order to support propogation of orchards and may the profits be sequestered in the Seychelles.

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by septimus

What's their position on Motherhood and Apple Pie?

1. Not recommended for most men.
2. I prefer pumpkin.

[snowmaster]

Originally Posted by gamerunknown

To me it looks like there are two relatively conservative candidates (Tripler and snowmaster), one that will attempt to be independent (Sage Rat) and one that is quite left-wing by US standards (Stelios).

I'd be interested in seeing each of their results on the political compass, if they think it is an accurate measure of political alignment (I think it is biased towards anarchosyndicalism or at least left wing views, since the company that produced it also publishes a newspaper supportive of Obama).

Here you go: Snowmaster's Political Compass
While I have not used this site before, I don't think it's an accurate pigeon-holing of my political views.

[snowmaster]

Originally Posted by septimus

Two of the opening statements were so teeming with sweet-sounding but meaningless platitudes (e.g. "genuine positive change that is good for citizens and good for businesses"), I think Moderators should add a Warning for Diabetics to the thread title. What's their position on Motherhood and Apple Pie?

That's me you're quoting. While I'm told I occasionally brush up against eloquence ever so fleetingly, I am not an accomplished political speachwriter, nor have I retained one for this endeavor. Hey, the current guy got in on "C.H.A.N.G.E!"and we know two things: it worked for him, and he was full of shit.

Like Stelios points out, while we may not be shooting for saccharine sweet, you get more flies than with vinegar and we're trying to comport ourselves in a professional manner not sound like a bunch of drunk rambling asses. Just remember in November, when you hear sweet sounding meaningless platitudes from me, I MEAN them!

As for Mothers, like every man I love mine and politely endure tolerate my wife's. I support motherhood as an important means of propagating the species. I think fatherhood is not to be underestimated either in childhood development and what kind of adult results.

I like pie.

[gamerunknown]

Well, I'd like to rescind my comment on you being conservative based on your political compass result. I'd hold you as left-wing by US standards and Stelios as left-wing by international standards. I wonder if political pressure or lobbying would alter the kinds of responses given in a real world scenario though?

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by gamerunknown

Well, I'd like to rescind my comment on you being conservative based on your political compass result. I'd hold you as left-wing by US standards and Stelios as left-wing by international standards. I wonder if political pressure or lobbying would alter the kinds of responses given in a real world scenario though?

While principally worrying about your average member of the Straight Dope, I am trying to be mindful of the general populace, national voting blocks, etc.

Hopefully, I haven't upset Florida.

[snowmaster]

Originally Posted by gamerunknown

Well, I'd like to rescind my comment on you being conservative based on your political compass result. I'd hold you as left-wing by US standards and Stelios as left-wing by international standards. I wonder if political pressure or lobbying would alter the kinds of responses given in a real world scenario though?

Well, you did ask if I thought it was an accurate summation of my views and I told you I didn't think it was. Many, many of the questions have a "lead" to them or are otherwise poorly written.

[ToeJam]

Will we get a chance to vote in a poll after the Debates on who we thought did the best?
(Maybe if we have multiple future debates, the different winners of each one can face each other in a massive Debate showdown).

[Jonathan Chance]

I have thought about it but not yet decided. I'll accept advice from the peanut gallery.