NHL: The Playoffs

[mnemosyne]

Dunno - Kesler is still more awesome....when silent....and naked........


There is nothing wrong with still celebrating past Stanley Cups. Which is why I'd like to remind everyone that the Habs have 24. Ha ha sucks to be you! ;P

[RickJay]

What a strange was to end a hockey game; "We're losing by a goal, there's nine seconds left, I have the puck and a shot... I think I'll just kind of poke it in the general direction of the net." Bizarre decision.

[Rysto]

I have no idea how that last goal stood. CBC showed at least two angles that conclusively showed the blade of Neil's skate directing into the net.

Ottawa lost their composure after the 5-on-3 goal and that cost them the game. Yeah, it was a ridiculous pair of calls, but standing around thinking about how mad you are about it doesn't help you go anywhere. CBC showed Alfredsson slamming things left and right on the bench. You can't have your captain doing that; it's just a distraction for the team. Look at where Pittsburgh ended up when Crosby started with his antics instead of playing hockey.

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by Rysto

I have no idea how that last goal stood. CBC showed at least two angles that conclusively showed the blade of Neil's skate directing into the net.

Ottawa lost their composure after the 5-on-3 goal and that cost them the game. Yeah, it was a ridiculous pair of calls, but standing around thinking about how mad you are about it doesn't help you go anywhere. CBC showed Alfredsson slamming things left and right on the bench. You can't have your captain doing that; it's just a distraction for the team. Look at where Pittsburgh ended up when Crosby started with his antics instead of playing hockey.

In fairness, Ottawa was playing a terrible period BEFORE the 5-on-3. It was the worst twenty minutes of hockey they've played all series.

As to the goal, you're right. Neil's skate was moving towards the net and the puck went off it. I'll be damned if I can understand the "distinct kicking motion" rule, how it's applied, or for that matter why the rule is even written the way it is. The way I see it the rule needs to be simplified, and go either way:

1. Forget the "distinct kicking motion" and state that any goal off an offensive player's skate if there is any forward motion at all is no goal, or

2. Just allow players to kick the puck in. Why not?

[Rysto]

The only thing that I can figure is that they said it wasn't conclusive that Neil's skate actually contacted the puck. Hell, when I saw the first replay from behind the net I immediately said that it was impossible that Neil kicked it in, because the puck came from behind his foot. But CBC showed some side angles that seemed to show that the top of the puck got caught by the edge of Neil's blade, and that's what propelled it into the net.

I guess you could argue that no angle actually showed Neil's blade in contact with the puck, so it wasn't conclusive, but that's splitting an awful fine hair.

[mnemosyne]

The puck very clearly speeds up. It's going slowly, there's the stick/skate contacts and then it goes faster. The goalie stick is going the other way - it cannot cause the puck to accelerate into the net. The skate is going towards the net...the same direction as the acceleration.

Only the skate could have caused the change in acceleration of the puck. There is no other conclusion. Neil kicked it in by putting his skate blade on top of the puck and kicking (rather than behind it).

But math and physics aren't the NHL's strong suit.



Also, while I'm not heartless enough to have actually wanted him injured, I love how Neil's concussion from that nasty, nasty hit (do any angles actually show contact to the head? The one I saw was ambiguous at best) lasted until just the next puck drop. Amazing healing powers, there.

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by mnemosyne

The puck very clearly speeds up. It's going slowly, there's the stick/skate contacts and then it goes faster. The goalie stick is going the other way - it cannot cause the puck to accelerate into the net. The skate is going towards the net...the same direction as the acceleration.

Only the skate could have caused the change in acceleration of the puck. There is no other conclusion. Neil kicked it in by putting his skate blade on top of the puck and kicking (rather than behind it).

But math and physics aren't the NHL's strong suit.

Thjis is why I'm inclined to simply allow players to kick it into the net. It eliminates the entire ambiguity of the call and, let's be honest, who cares? Kicked goals are rare, would stay rare, and if a guy can kick it in more power to him; the issue would never come up.

I'd be willing to say the issue would have to be reopened if you had a plague of kicking around the goalie that put the goalie at risk, but that problem would be swiftly solved with some penalties.

[Locrian]

And there go the Blackhawks. Phoenix may be a team to look at a little more closely. Smith is great in net and the rest seem to like OT.

[mnemosyne]

Who the fuck is Mike Smith?

I mean, I've read his wikipedia page, but are we sure he's human? I mean... "Mike Smith"... such a generic name... could be a government robot; it would explain a lot. Absolute beast.

[tim-n-va]

Originally Posted by mnemosyne

Dunno - Kesler is still more awesome....when silent....and naked........


There is nothing wrong with still celebrating past Stanley Cups. Which is why I'd like to remind everyone that the Habs have 24. Ha ha sucks to be you! ;P

Didn't the Habs win a lot of those when they had first choice of local/regional players? That actually is worth bragging about - seriously. At least it makes sense as a city. Much better than the guys we paid to move here played better than the guys you paid to move there.

I'll be hoping for a Caps victory on Wednesday but Thursday my life will be the same either way. I think the rebounds Holtby gives up are going to come back to bite him soon.

[mnemosyne]

Not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic....? In case you are sarcastic....

Signing players to C-Forms was a first come, first served thing - Montreal was just better at getting scouts out and signing players very early. It wasn't like it was a secret: nothing stopped other teams from getting there first.

Every other team in the league had the monopoly chance to sign local players first (in the 50-mile radius), same as the Habs did. Being butthurt that your team's region didn't have as many kids playing hockey isn't the Habs' fault.

Montreal protected 14 players through the special draft that gave them easier access to players in the rest of Québec. Not a single one of those players in the first handful of years ever played in the NHL. The Canadiens had the intelligence to set up a farm team system of players that they signed to C-form contracts, but there was nothing whatsoever preventing other teams from doing the same. This system netted the Habs a total of three players, the only significant one being Réjean Houle.

I suppose you could say that they acquired Jean Beliveau in this manner too; though he didn't want to turn pro and the Habs gambled on buying a whole senior league to pretty much force him to do it.

So...we are really only talking about four players, two of which were pretty much nobodies. Hardly the only contributors to Cup wins, don't you think?

The Leafs also had a massive farm system - do you think their Cup wins are less valid too?

People can try and delegitimatize their Cup winnings over it, but at the end of the day, the Montreal Canadiens are still inscribed on it, and if the Penguins can be proud of their 2009 win, we can be proud of the Habs' 1916, 1924, 1930, 1931, 1944, 1946, 1953, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1971, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1986, 1993 wins too.

[tim-n-va]

No, I was completely serious. I think taking geographical pride in a sports team when few or none of the players involved would be there if they weren't being paid to be is a little silly.

When I lived in Colorado I was an Avalanche fan because they were the local team but I didn't think it made Denver any better. Now that I live near DC, I'm a Caps fan. If I move somewhere there is another hockey team, I'll be a fan of them. DC will be no better and no worse a place to live Thursday, regardless of what happens in Boston Wednesday night.

[mnemosyne]

I see. I wouldn't be the same way - I think I'll pretty much always be a Habs fan, even if I ever move away from here, but I suppose I could see myself cheering for a local team because that's what I'd be exposed to more (though I didn't, when I lived in Hamilton).

The Habs really are more than just a sports team here, though; they are undoubtably part of my culture. They impact music, television, social discussion, art, etc. The "Habs are a religion" statement isn't that far off, in many of the ways that the team has and does influence culture. Since I am proud of my culture, there's validity in being proud of the team, even if the majority of the team isn't from here and are only doing it for money (though could you get more Québecois than Mathieu Darche, a man who clearly kept playing the game for the love of it? hehe)

I think there's a bit of that in Toronto, maybe in some other cities, but I don't know if it's quite as pervasive. I haven't been to enough other cities to see. The fans will tell you how much they care, but how much as the team actually affected the culture and life of the population?

Meh, all this was spun off of a Pens fan gloating a little that they have more Cups than the Caps. I just took the gloating to another level

[Anamorphic]

Originally Posted by tim-n-va

No, I was completely serious. I think taking geographical pride in a sports team when few or none of the players involved would be there if they weren't being paid to be is a little silly.

When I lived in Colorado I was an Avalanche fan because they were the local team but I didn't think it made Denver any better. Now that I live near DC, I'm a Caps fan. If I move somewhere there is another hockey team, I'll be a fan of them. DC will be no better and no worse a place to live Thursday, regardless of what happens in Boston Wednesday night.

I guess I can understand that sentiment, but we're not all like that. I grew up in Baltimore, and was always a fan of the closest NHL team - the Caps. I've lived in Los Angeles for 19 years now, and I remain a diehard Caps fan. Also, the Orioles and the Ravens (who didn't even exist when I moved to L.A.). I can't imagine switching allegiances to the Kings - my heart just wouldn't be in it. It would be forced. Los Angeles is definitely my home now, but I still take pride in my original hometown. Likewise most of the people I know - we're almost all transplants, many of them I know from college so they're almost all from New England, and they're all Bruins/Red Sox/Patriots fans. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by Anamorphic

I guess I can understand that sentiment, but we're not all like that. I grew up in Baltimore, and was always a fan of the closest NHL team - the Caps. I've lived in Los Angeles for 19 years now, and I remain a diehard Caps fan. Also, the Orioles and the Ravens (who didn't even exist when I moved to L.A.). I can't imagine switching allegiances to the Kings - my heart just wouldn't be in it. It would be forced. Los Angeles is definitely my home now, but I still take pride in my original hometown. Likewise most of the people I know - we're almost all transplants, many of them I know from college so they're almost all from New England, and they're all Bruins/Red Sox/Patriots fans. I don't see anything wrong with that.

If anyone goes to a Kings or Ducks team, the transplants always come out of every crack and crevice in L.A. to liquor up and root for the team they left behind....especially the O-6 and older eastern teams......Boston, NY, Detroit, Chicago, Montreal, Toronto, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington DC......all of the cold climate teams from the east.......they love their old beloved teams, but hated the cold. I just love those games where the Kings or Ducks smacked them down at their one and only visit for the year (except for Chicago and Detroit....got to put up with those fools twice) and make their drunken stupors a little harsher.

and the Shark fans......well, they are in a class all by themselves....

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by mnemosyne

People can try and delegitimatize their Cup winnings over it, but at the end of the day, the Montreal Canadiens are still inscribed on it, and if the Penguins can be proud of their 2009 win, we can be proud of the Habs' 1916, 1924, 1930, 1931, 1944, 1946, 1953, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1971, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1986, 1993 wins too.

Must put in the rule where if you were not living during that year, you shouldn't really be celebrating it......my apologies though if you are 96.

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by mnemosyne

I think there's a bit of that in Toronto, maybe in some other cities, but I don't know if it's quite as pervasive.

You are vastly, vastly understating the importance of the Toronto Maple Leafs to people in Toronto and, indeed, a lot of other places in Canada.

[Anamorphic]

Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex

If anyone goes to a Kings or Ducks team, the transplants always come out of every crack and crevice in L.A. to liquor up and root for the team they left behind....especially the O-6 and older eastern teams......Boston, NY, Detroit, Chicago, Montreal, Toronto, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington DC......all of the cold climate teams from the east.......they love their old beloved teams, but hated the cold. I just love those games where the Kings or Ducks smacked them down at their one and only visit for the year (except for Chicago and Detroit....got to put up with those fools twice) and make their drunken stupors a little harsher.

Is this supposed to make me feel bad for continuing to root for the team I grew up with? Or for moving?

And the last time I got to see the Caps play the Ducks, we won handily, so sorry to disappoint.

[mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex

Must put in the rule where if you were not living during that year, you shouldn't really be celebrating it......my apologies though if you are 96.

Well, that still leaves me with two. You?

Originally Posted by RickJay

You are vastly, vastly understating the importance of the Toronto Maple Leafs to people in Toronto and, indeed, a lot of other places in Canada.

Yeah, I assume I was, but I didn't grow up there so I'm not really aware of the influences outside of the actual sports realm: I know the Leafs through sports media and through the eyes of the Habs, not as an institution themselves. I just used weak language to express that, sorry.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Fred Garvin

Kevin Bieska is now my favorite Canuck

Oh dear god, what an idiot -- they don't even look anything alike!



I seriously can't see myself changing my allegiance to another team, even if I move away. I'll be a Penguins fan and a Steelers fan until I die. Even if I move half-way across the globe. Otherwise I'd feel like a bandwagon fan.

(And I do INDEED remember all three of the Penguins' Stanley Cups. So )

[Locrian]

Can the East Conference get moving here?? Hey, I just wanna know our next opponent!

Seriously, though, THREE game sevens in the East! THREE! First round! Anyone who doesn't like or understand hockey, we should kidnap them, duct tape them to a bar stool and open their psyche to a basic game pushed to limits beyond any other sport.

7th game NHL playoff hockey is THE BEST game to watch, period. And since it's not my team this time, BRING THE OT on all three of 'em!

[tim-n-va]

[quote=Guinastasia;15001207]...I seriously can't see myself changing my allegiance to another team, even if I move away. I'll be a Penguins fan and a Steelers fan until I die. Even if I move half-way across the globe. Otherwise I'd feel like a bandwagon fan.
...
QUOTE]

You'd only be a bandwagon fan if you lived in the area, weren't a fan until that team started to do well.

I suppose I might be a bandwagon Caps fan since I didn't buy season tickets until a few years ago. Of course, from my perspective that was when my sons completed college and I could afford tickets.

After thinking about this, I realized that the teams I liked as a child I haven't switched - not a Redskins fan.

The guy who happened to get the seat beside me for Game 4 who asked his friend what a power play was, he might be a bandwagon fan.

[mnemosyne]

"Un jeu de puissance, l'avantage numérique!"

A few years back a family friend of mine asked what a "power play" was, but in his defence he was 8 and a francophone - we must have been about 8 people who answered simultaneously in the same manner. It was rather funny at the time!


Man, I can't even dream of one day having Habs season tickets. There's a decade-long waiting list and they start in the $7000/season range, I think.Even going to more than a couple of games a year gets expensive. (Scumbag Molsons: own the arena, hockey team, advertising rights and brewery...charge some of the highest beer prices in the league).

If the Bulldogs were ever to move to Laval, we've contemplated getting season tickets there (though that's all hypothetical). AHL hockey is pretty good and it's fun to watch prospects develop. Unless they jump to the Show in the next couple of years, the Bulldogs might be in for a very strong team for the next year or two with some of the junior prospects moving up. I suppose we should/could support junior hockey, though none of them are that close to us since the Montreal Juniors moved to the north shore. I have no excuse for not going to Montreal Stars games.

Goddamn it, is it September yet? I want Habs hockey! Though the speculation/discussion on the new GM and head coach is fun... it just isn't tiding me over!

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by Anamorphic

Is this supposed to make me feel bad for continuing to root for the team I grew up with? Or for moving?

No, not at all.....I just enjoy watching east coast fans blow a paycheck for a section behind the visitors bench, grub and grog and come away with a loss. Makes my day to see them walk in all belligerent at 7pm, and walk away with their heads down at 10pm.....nothing more, nothing less. Please let me know how many Ducks and Kings fans you've found in a belligerent and drunken stupor in your town when they came to play. I've got plenty of stories with each fan base listed above.....the worst ones are Detroit fans here in SoCal.

And the last time I got to see the Caps play the Ducks, we won handily, so sorry to disappoint.

Heh, the same thing happened over here at the Arrowhead Pond/Honda Center.....except I had the experience of 6 Capital Fans screaming how great they were (at a pre-season game!) all the way ("CAPITALS!!!") from the entrance ("CAPITALS!!!") , up the stairs ("CAPITALS!!!") , down a corridor ("CAPITALS!!!") to the same section ("CAPITALS!!!") I was in.......and then after a 7-0 or 7-1 drubbing at the hands of the Ducks, I ran into them at the stairwell......I only had to say it once, but it had to said.....

"CRAPITALS!!!"

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by mnemosyne

Well, that still leaves me with two. You?

You have every right to crow about the two you won, especially the last one against the Kings.....
Ducks have one Stanley Cup, and I would love to see the Kings get it this year, but they are only 1/4 of the way there, but at least they are still in it.

Remember, I am a SoCal homer.....Kings first, Ducks second.....San Jose....30th.

[mnemosyne]

Though I do think limiting it to ones when we were alive is ageist. It's not my fault I'm young

Also, this is for you. I hope you like it!

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by mnemosyne

Though I do think limiting it to ones when we were alive is ageist. It's not my fault I'm young

Hey....just think how much longer you're gonna be around to see those Cups in the future!

Also, this is for you. I hope you like it!

You made my point exactly.....it's something we both remembered!!

[mnemosyne]

I insist on being able to mock the Bruins mercilessly, particularly for Too-man-men penalties.

[RickJay]

Wow, and the Bruins are dead and out. It's the season of upsets.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by mnemosyne

Well, that still leaves me with two. You?



Yeah, I assume I was, but I didn't grow up there so I'm not really aware of the influences outside of the actual sports realm: I know the Leafs through sports media and through the eyes of the Habs, not as an institution themselves. I just used weak language to express that, sorry.

Bullshit, I think you have every right to cheer about your team's history. I wasn't even born when the Steelers were a big-time dynasty, but I still brag about it.




I'm gonna leave my Penguins play-off signs in my yard for awhile. Just because.

[tim-n-va]

No faith. I thought the Bruins would take advantage of Holtby's sometimes weak rebound control. I was partly right on the Bruin goal but glad to be wrong.

[Anamorphic]

Originally Posted by tim-n-va

No faith. I thought the Bruins would take advantage of Holtby's sometimes weak rebound control. I was partly right on the Bruin goal but glad to be wrong.

I'm loving Holtby, but those rebounds are killing me... or rather, killing my heart. Hope he gets it under control for the next series...

[Lukeinva]

Down goes Boston!! Woot!

[mnemosyne]

YES!! I pretty much don't care what happens in the playoffs now - the Bruins are gone! Woooooo great game, Capitals, and good luck!

[Locrian]

And the bears turn to hibernation!

Congrats to the Caps, sympathies to the B's fans.

And I STILL don't know who we're playing next!!!

[mnemosyne]

Wow - I know it's not all Bruins fans, but there is some rather horrible racist shit being said on twitter about Joel Ward (who scored the GWG). Appalling, and so sad to see.

Any B's fans reading this - and any hockey fans, really - condemn it, loudly. There's no place for that shit in the best sport in the world.

[Kiros]

Unfortunately, there are still plenty of racist morons in America. Screw all of 'em.

It was a great follow up goal and a fitting way for the Bruins to lose - it might have taken the B's three more periods to score another goal, anyways. I have no idea why Bergeron was even in there, as whatever unspecific "upper body injury" he was suffering made him a liability (never mind just useless). There were only about three forwards in the entire lineup who were any sort of offensive factor (Seguin/Peverly/Marchand), from a team whose offensive strength all season was depth up and down the four lines. Hell, I missed Shawn Thorton last night; it's not like Caron did anything, anyways.

I am thinking that I like Nashville as a sentimental rooting favorite for the rest of the playoffs; anyone want to try to talk me into anyone else?

[Raygun99]

Good news for Tim Thomas: That day where the Stanley Cup winning team visits the White House is wide open for him now.

[Cowboy8467]

Holtby was the difference maker in the series, and I have to post from the game last night because it just cracks me up so much.

http://i.imgur.com/oMbna.gif

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

I'm gonna leave my Penguins play-off signs in my yard for awhile. Just because.

Lawn insects need shade?

d&r

[Anamorphic]

Originally Posted by Cowboy8467

Holtby was the difference maker in the series, and I have to post from the game last night because it just cracks me up so much.

http://i.imgur.com/oMbna.gif

Cute, but I prefer the unedited one. I just love Holtby staring him down and Peverley thinking better of it...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1083495/pev.gif

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by Anamorphic

Cute, but I prefer the unedited one. I just love Holtby staring him down and Peverley thinking better of it...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1083495/pev.gif

Anyone thought of this while watching that?

[Anamorphic]

Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex

Anyone thought of this while watching that?

Ha! No, I didn't, and I should have... I just watched that for the first time last week. Great scene.

[Harborwolf]

Originally Posted by Kiros

I am thinking that I like Nashville as a sentimental rooting favorite for the rest of the playoffs; anyone want to try to talk me into anyone else?

Can't do it. Not a fan of Shea Weber. Barry Trotz head still looks like a pissy bowling ball centered on a 2x4, and I'm still not convinced that Nashville even knows what a Stanley Cup is.

Phoenix is out because they may not exist for much longer. Like a temp getting employee of the month. They're still out when the job is done. Why should they get the gift certificate to TGIFridays?

St. Louis at least has a history, but Ken Hitchcock is sooooooo boring. They get partial credit though. They've been a playoff stepping stone for as long as I've watched hockey. Be nice to see them win.

I've got a friend that is from LA and is rooting for the Kings, but I hate Lakers fans so I don't want LA to have any happiness at all. Only thing that makes me support them at all is the legend of Barry Melrose's mullet.

Eastern Conference is much easier. I'm supporting Philly because I want them to win a cup while Chris Pronger isn't playing for them. And yes I feel bad because he has a concussion.........okay not really. I do feel bad for his family though, and a little work related karma is a fine slap for his being a complete bastard on the ice.

[Kiros]

See, as a fan of an Eastern team, I have all sorts of vendettas against all of the remaining East teams except for Florida, which is a big "who cares". St. Louis is right up my alley but they just seem so... Boring. Same as you with the hatred of LA everything. At least it seems like Nashville is really getting behind that team, and Rinne and Suter are fun to watch.

[Guinastasia]

The only Eastern conference team I could root for right now is New York. I could never support either the Flyers or the Capitals, of course, and I still have a soft spot for Mike Rupp, and it would be interesting to see a third Staal on the Cup. Plus Avery's out now, and it would be sweet, sweet schaudenfreude to see him just miss winning a Cup.

(Even if Tortorella is a dick)

[Rysto]

I know that this team somehow finished fourth in league scoring, but dear god do they need some offensive help up front. They had all the chances in the world to tie it and couldn't even hit the net.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Typically, to win a Stanley Cup, the team has to have a goalie that will carry the team on his back. Lundquist did that for the Rangers tonight.

It's a huge win for the Rangers. They are a very good team but Lundquist is the key. It will be interesting to see how far he carries them.

[Rysto]

Originally Posted by R. P. McMurphy

They are a very good team

Call me bitter if you want, but I don't see this at all. They spent way too much time in their own end in this series. Lundquist bailed them out time and time again. A team with better finish would have taken them out.

I have a really hard time calling a team that was just held to 2 goals per game by the 24th-ranked defensive team in the league a good team.

[Locrian]

Is anyone watching Panthers/Devils? Amazing 3rd period for Fla. Its been in the Devil end the whole time and finally a PP Goal brings us to another OT!

I have no idea whether I want our Flyers to take the Panthers (who scurry like mad when needed) or the old Devil rivalry. Brodeur looks a little Bored-eux!