[Mafia game] The Realm of Phere

[Believerer]

Originally Posted by Normal Phase

No one is scheduled for modkill today, now that Storyteller is back. RedSkeezix, Mahaloth, lilflower, Believerer (and Storyteller) could potentially be modkilled tomorrow should they not place any further votes, since they each only have one so far. I think everyone else has voted twice.

ATPG has informed me that I will need two days of not voting to be modkilled. D1 does not count since I am a replacement. D2 still is my bad.

Funny if I should end up being lynched first thing.

[Astral Rejection]

Pendant to me.

I don't think I've seen this answered yet:

Are items like the pendant useable on targets? Can I submit something like "I want to use the pendant on [X]"? Or do they have effects that activate when I'm the target of some kind of effect? A mix of these options? Obviously you can't confirm WHAT the items do, but presumably you can answer "are they useable?"

[MHaye]

Some thoughts as I catch up on votes.

Originally Posted by BobArrgh

Astral, I'm sorry to see you get mislynched. I hope we can use your sacrifice properly and nail the Scum.

That suggests to me that Bob knows Astrals' alignment. I also feel that he's gloating, just a bit.

I thought of voting BobArrgh, but then came across this from ToeJam.

Originally Posted by ToeJam

Vote Pendant to Zombie Mosier

Vote Naf
for the leveling up w/o contributiing for the last few Days. It's the best I've got at this quick read through, i'll need to spend more time reading up again over the last Day, but I'm in no shape to really contribute my usual self.

That's a wasted vote. Seriously.

There are mechanisms to deal with nonparticipatory players, and (since this is Day 3) NAF has not failed to contribute for Days - he didn't do much Yesterday, true, bit was active enough on Monday. So, nice smudge.

That said, I don't trust Zombies, and feel like we've got a Necromancer now finally in our ranks. Hopefully a "Townie" necro, but to me, it does feel like the obvious "3rd Party Mad Bomber" win condition- create an army of Zombies and take out the Town. So I'm not against Visorslash's ideas to kill zombies, though I'm more inclined to wait and see if we start to get a zombie problem and to see what happens at night. If we get 4-5 zombies, we may need to thin the herd. but 1-2 or I'm content with right now to just poke with sticks.

This was categorised as wishy-washy, because it is. Voting an item to someone then, in the very next breath, saying you don't trust them.

[color=blue]Vote ToeJam for inconsistent behaviour.

Originally Posted by fubbleskag

editing is editing.

Not in this game it's not.

Editing your post is fine, unless you edit a vote in which case it's a capital offence (iirc).

[Normal Phase]

Fuck if I don't like that vote though, Mhaye.

Oh mafia why do you do these things to me.

[MHaye]

For the sake of clarity

Originally Posted by MHaye

Vote ToeJam for inconsistent behaviour.

[MHaye]

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

i'm not sure your vote counts since it's not in bold.

If you look back to the end of Day 2, you will see a discussion on whether non-bolded votes should count. If I followed it correctly, the final ruling was that, as from Today, they would count.

Oi, you.

Do non-bolded votes count Today?

[Normal Phase]

PetW --

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...7#post14940127 -- to Visor, why are you so antagonistic; sign-up thread posts look like arrogant scum

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...7#post14942257 -- visorslash didn't answer satisfactorily, votes him

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...0#post14942260 -- fixed format

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...7#post14946167 -- went back to look at signup thread, still happy with vote on visor due to timing of his attitude change, also got PM late and was town

Yikes. Honestly all of the above looks very townie to me. It's not the way I'd think, but still. Anyway, continuing on.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...2#post14946172 -- more explanation, acted like visor himself when he was scum
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...9#post14950929 -- we should attack the demon and need to keep the final vote tally more decisive. also, doesn't trust gadarene

This is the post that Red Skeezix responded to. I guess I don't quite see it the way he did, despite that it tends toward the same things that pinged me on his later post. Not sure why.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...2#post14950952 -- on second thought, gadarene thing might be a non-tell

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...6#post14950966 -- accepts point about diffuse attacks being non-productive, reiterates need to work together

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...0#post14951000 -- 3 vote swing can be overcome; can figure out demon thing later if needed

If you click on some of these links you'll see that PetW's "we disease" that I commented on later is an ongoing thing with him; and though it is starting to make me a bit nervous, so far it's not coming off as badly as that one post did. It's possible it's just the way he talks.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...4#post14951034 -- clarifies position on coordinated vig attacks to gadarene

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...0#post14951040 -- advocates for vig attacks on gadarene to finish what wasn't completed on day one.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...9#post14951149 -- this one I STILL can't freaking parse. I *think* he was trying to say that Astral and Gadarene would not both have to be scum in order for the scum to lynch Mosier over the pair of them; just one would do.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...3#post14956683 -- wants opinions on using focused vig attacks as a second lynch

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...3#post14957123 -- didn't mean to take credit for the idea, just wanted more discussion

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...1#post14957521 -- cautions against giving items to fubs; he could booby-trap or something

OK, this one does ping a bit, mostly since I think scum would be a wary of a power like that and don't think that fubs is scum himself.

And you know, it bugs me inordinately that I still don't have a clue who's claiming third party. I swear I'm so open-minded about third parties my brains fall out. Just ask Storyteller. But nobody wants to talk to me. *sadface*

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...7#post14957597 -- pizza says attacking stuff can be safely ignored, so don't need to kill demon to win game

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...6#post14957606 -- votes ring to himself

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...4#post14958654 -- the post that pinged the crap out of me. You know, it really does read much less suspicious in the context of all his other stuff. I think he's just a bit of a bossy-pants, like me.

Originally Posted by PetW

So far the scum have managed to kill 3 of us, and we haven't lynched a single person yet. We have a 0% chance of finding scum if we continue this way. I propose the following strategy:
1. Vote as normal.
2. Tally votes by the beginning of the last (lowercase) dayparking before nightfall.
3. Agree as a group to place all of our votes on the leader, regardless of personal belief, to create a strong enough majority to ensure a real lynch and prevent a repeat of Day 1.
We need to get organized.

Vote Gadarene : I wasn't on this bandwagon until I saw his "go get 'ema Town" goodbye. Now he claims to notthe be vanilla, coyly brags about this secret information he has from unnamed sources, yet scum didn't bother targetting him. My #1last scum suspect for now.

Fubbleskag is my #2, and that's purely because I think anyone whose primary (and secondary and tertiary, apparently) goals are greed, must not be up to any good. I'm afraid of what he may be rewarded with when he acquires too much wealth. To simply have some merchant-type class who simply wins by collecting X amount of gold seems a little pointless and trite to me. I have a feeling Askthepizzaguy has a twist in there somewhere.

Visorslash is now my #3. I realize it's in his character to be boastful and abrasive, but I think the degree to which he's done so is scummy. Also, as I mentioned earlier, his tone seemed to turn in the sign up threads right around the time PMs came out.

OK I'm done now. I was going to continue to the end where there was something else I thought I wanted to talk about, but I see no point now. This post is perfectly in context with everything else he's said all along. Just a bad read on my part, I think. I'm not prepared to put PetW on the probable-town list, but he's way back down in the mix again.

Next!

[Scathach]

Originally Posted by ToeJam

And I wanted to see what'd happen if I voted an item to him in terms of the other players' reactions.

So what did you learn / what did you expect to learn? This seems to be the new handwave for doing anything that draws suspicion "oh, I was just checking for reactions".

[Astral Rejection]

Originally Posted by Scathach

So what did you learn / what did you expect to learn? This seems to be the new handwave for doing anything that draws suspicion "oh, I was just checking for reactions".

I like the thought process behind this question. This needs to be something I remember to ask.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

~~partialy snipped~~
i don't think there's been a game where you haven't voted for me. how many times have you been wrong? by this time i'd thought you'd have a better feel for my game, especially my town one. fortunately for you, many of us, including me, have been able to control our urges to vote you for your play because we've seen it before.

to answer your arguments:
1. nothing wrong with speculating. players do it all the time. how do you know they don't hold water? you mean i'm wrong on both 5 to 7 and 1? and you know this how?

2. i already explained that. would you care to argue that her vote on fubbles was useful.

3. i didn't backpedal. i DIDN'T tell her to vote a wagon. quote the post that i did. you're just twisting my words. i exhorted her to put a vote towards someone who might actually be lynched.

4. the color WAS awesome. anytime a mod puts that much effort to entertain us, it deserves acknowledgment. i bet you thought it was great too but were too chicken to say so because it might seem like gloating or whatever suspicious crap you can call it.

5. eager, sure. ever played with private communication allowed between all players? no? i thought so. if you haven't and haven't tried in this game, you'll never understand. you'll just be in among those players who think it's suspicious without actually being able to say why.

even if i believe OMGUS votes are okay, i won't do it now. you've been your usual townie playstyle.

underlining mine. Curious, you have a collection of players that are controlling their urges to vote me?

1. you keep repeating the one Scum theorie and no one was biting ( you have had a nibble or two of late I see)

2.Any vote is useful . I prefer to vote who I find Scummiest – which a player can’t always do- but it does leave a better vote record. But I do hold that each player should vote how they see fit. In some cases it’s the only weapon they have.

3. I see that as a fine line.

4.Interesting way to say that, if you would have included the word ‘colour’ in the post it would have read clearer to your point. disregarding the name calling or whatever you want to call it

5.As Scum, I bet it’s awesome. You know who to trust and they don’t. As Town caution rules for me.i’ll just tiptoe for now.
Thanks for your non vote of confidence [grin]

[Scathach]

Originally Posted by storyteller0910

Actually, on some level, and given this, I would think that any player who voted to lynch someone and then didn't vote to lynch them again upon their return from the dead, with no additional information since the first time, ought to have a damn good explanation for it. If (s)he was Scummy enough to vote for previously, and now is back and nothing has changed, why is (s)he no longer worth a vote?

The risk of infinite recursion for one thing Imagine if we end up lynching Mosier every day for the whole damn game

I think this is a legitimate use for the day attacks though - although, we don't actually know what, if anything, will be revealed if someone dies from their wounds.


Will the death reveal for players killed at the end of day by being attacked be the same as for lynchs / NK's in terms of information revealed?

The problem with attacking is the lack of accountability given we don't know who attacked who. On the plus side, it put a greater onus on people to make a new case rather than revoting people they lynched the day before?

[Suburban Plankton]

Originally Posted by Mosier

ZoMo (heh!) want braaaains. Eat bad people in day. Not want poking. Maybe try magic to turn back human? Not scum, same game winning - stop bad humans who hurt town.

ZoMo think can vote. No rule saying not.

Maybe bad people list -
Visorslash for want hurt me, and ask other people hurt me
Suburban Plankton for saying he not say something he did and starting vote against me day 1.

I would respond to this, if I actually understood what you were saying. I get the "for starting the vote against me on Day 1" bit, but I'm not entirely sure what it is that I'm supposed to have said that I didn't say, but I actually did....


I assume from this post that you cannot vote as a Zombie. I believe you mentioned earlier that you would be more coherent at Night, so hopefully we can have a more fruitful conversation then.

[Suburban Plankton]

Originally Posted by BobArrgh

I know for a fact that at least one of the attackers on D2 was a Townie.

You know for a fact?

As in, you have definitive information regarding somebody's Game Alignment?

Or are you assuming because they've been revealed as "Good"?

[Suburban Plankton]

Originally Posted by Gadarene

I attacked Phere last night for some of these reasons.

By "Last Night", do you mean Night 2? Because there was no indication in the write-up this Morning that Phere was attacked last Night.

[Believerer]

I think I've responded reasonably to the questions I've gotten toDay, yet I still am under scrutiny from some very seasoned players. Why is that?
There has not been one single flinch from Suburban since he voted me and yet there is no case on me other than that I am new.

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

vote Believerer

He's had two 'substantive' posts in this game: One in which he votes to give himself an Item, and this one in which he votes for BobArrgh (and personally I think Scathach's case which he "agrees with" is rather thin).

I'd like to see some sort of thought process beyond "I need help because I'm running behind" and "what he said".

And yes, this is a 'pressure vote'. make of that what you will.

You haven't contributed much in the way of pressure, this vote just seems like a half-assed attempt at looking for scum to survive another Day without getting a FOS. It's certainly enough to sway me.

Unvote; BobArrgh

Vote: Suburban Planktion

[Suburban Plankton]

Originally Posted by Visorslash

When is PC?

I might be able to tell you...


...if you will tell me what PC stands for in this context...

[Suburban Plankton]

Originally Posted by Believerer

ATPG has informed me that I will need two days of not voting to be modkilled. D1 does not count since I am a replacement. D2 still is my bad.

Funny if I should end up being lynched first thing.

You'd stand a better chance of avoiding a lynch if you'd actually participate.

I voted for you way back as a 'pressure' vote. I've been thinking I would move my vote for some time, but you're not actually doing anything to make me want to do that. Every time I think about it, I look back at your contribution to the game so far, and every time I am more comfortable with my vote than I was the time before.

[Believerer]

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

You'd stand a better chance of avoiding a lynch if you'd actually participate.

I voted for you way back as a 'pressure' vote. I've been thinking I would move my vote for some time, but you're not actually doing anything to make me want to do that. Every time I think about it, I look back at your contribution to the game so far, and every time I am more comfortable with my vote than I was the time before.

If I get lynched it's because I've played bad and I recognize that, I won't hold anything against anyone. But right now, I haven't been playing badly.

I've explained repeatedly that this is D1 for me in this game, I'm completely fresh and replacing someone. I'm sure you'd find a better lynch subject somewhere else if you were bothered to look.

[Suburban Plankton]

Originally Posted by Believerer

If I get lynched it's because I've played bad and I recognize that, I won't hold anything against anyone. But right now, I haven't been playing badly.

I've explained repeatedly that this is D1 for me in this game, I'm completely fresh and replacing someone. I'm sure you'd find a better lynch subject somewhere else if you were bothered to look.

Yes, you've repeatedly told us it's Day 1 for you. We get it.

What you haven't done is any real analysis of anybody's play, from this Day or any other.

summary of Believerer's Posts in this game

1518 - says hello
1598 - has caught up. mentions he's a bad mafia player. thinks normal is town, but could use some vote pressure. thinks visorslash is fishy, but could be third party or town
1644 - can't read normal phase. she is too dangerous to be left alone even if innocemt, which he's starting to doubt
1646 - we have evidence normal is not scum. a scummy normal would be laying lower
1782 - votes pendant to himself. wonders why there's only one lynch vote so far
1818 - mentions having issues preventing him from posting on day 2
1822 - confirms 'posting issues' were not a game mechanic
1825 - wonders who should get the pendant and why
1837 - hasn't been able to analyze much yet, except for normal phase. thinks he should get the pendandt because of his poor situation - not having leveled up becuause of not having voted in previous days
1839 - getting the pendant would make him feel better about his chances and help level the playing field
1886 - votes bobarrgh. agrees with scathach's analysis of bob
1917 - notes there are too many cases floating around, so he picked the best one he could find, since this is like day 1 to him
1936 - reiterates, in response to questioning, that his day 2 silence was due to RL issues
1981 - fluff post
2051 - comment on mod-kills
2065 - unvotes bobarrgh, votes suburban for not making a case on anyone else
2068 - explains why his play in this game has been 'bad'


It's been 'Day 1' for you since last Tuesday. Haven't you been able to come up with anything in the last 9 days?

[Normal Phase]

Couple more low-posters then I have focus on the lynch race. No freaking time.

NAF

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...9#post14939429 -- busy, but doesn't like Gad's vote on Astral or my vote on Mosier. Gad's me too wasn't justified for a gut-read vote like Guiri's; and doesn't get where I'm coming from at all. Votes gad (in next post)

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...9#post14940199 -- scolds PetW and Visorslash for acting silly; thinks Guiri's earned the right to be smug and will be keeping his eye on me. I dont' think I ever asked about this, though:

And, he {Guiri} makes an interesting point about NP potentially connecting Gad and Astral.

What point did Guiri make?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...3#post14940313 -- SP knows the culture better than visorslash; intentionally causing chaos seen as antitown

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...4#post14943264 -- might miss end of day

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...4#post14943274 -- asks choie how long she's been playing mafia and what she thinks about third votes

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...5#post14943355 -- no problem, someone has to be the third vote

Skipped a couple asking if Astral is pedescribe.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...0#post14947610 -- says I should finish what I had to say about MHaye

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...3#post14948483 -- tells Gad he's crap at defending himself but otherwise looks townie so won't re-vote him

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...3#post14948523 -- more of the same, lots of little stuff says town but so bad at defending himself.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...5#post14958945 -- project has him too busy to post the whole Day, abstains instead

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...5#post14989345 -- just about ready to get back into game, can anyone catch him up?

Honestly NAF looks pretty good to me on day one. Maybe a little (ok a lot) less wordy than he usually is as town, but the reactions and the reads are ok and don't look forced anywhere. But day one's easy and he hasn't been around in the four days since he said he was back. Jury's still out. I don't know if I could vote for him today or not.

[Normal Phase]

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

You know for a fact?

As in, you have definitive information regarding somebody's Game Alignment?

Or are you assuming because they've been revealed as "Good"?

I could be wrong, but I read that as him saying that he himself was one of the attackers.

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by MHaye

There are mechanisms to deal with nonparticipatory players, and (since this is Day 3) NAF has not failed to contribute for Days - he didn't do much Yesterday, true, bit was active enough on Monday. So, nice smudge.

You're miscontruing my reasoning there for voting, Mhaye.

I am not voting Naf for being nonparticipatory.
I'm suspicious of him FOR BEING PARTICIPATORY.

He has been voting every day, he's been leveling up every day.
Yet, what's his contribution? Storyteller in his first day back has given more information and contributions than NAF, but NAF has gained at least 2 levels.

I'm voting for NAF, because he's flying under the radar, NOT because he's noncontributory. There's a difference.

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by Scathach

So what did you learn / what did you expect to learn? This seems to be the new handwave for doing anything that draws suspicion "oh, I was just checking for reactions".

Originally Posted by Astral Rejection

I like the thought process behind this question. This needs to be something I remember to ask.

Really, you want to know what I learned in 24 hours? The same thing you probably can learn.
I wanted to see who reacted to my giving of the pendant to the Zombie. I wanted to know if anyone else agreed with the idea, or was pro-Pendant zombies, if they'd vote for it or try to cover it up and say "I was just being silly" or "yeah, that sounds like a good idea!" and vote.

I wanted to follow the votes on the Pendant and see who reacts, because likely the Pendents are best used by those of a magical alignment. Watching who seems eager to pass along the pendent would show where the interests lie- I expect very few soldiers to care for such magical trinkets.
-My other thing i wanted to see is How does the Zombie react to getting the pendent. Did he want it? Did he not care, etc. Obviously too early to gauge the reaction in 24 hours. but thanks.

-The people who've immediately disliked the idea of the Pendant going to the non-magical soldier have been noted though. That is certainly interesting, especially when they freak out over a single vote. They are highly paranoid, looking to build a case against me (using silly reasoning of an item vote), or they're interested in said pendent. That or maybe they think I AM the necromancer and trying to give the zombie the pendent? If that's the case, well, I know I'm not a magic user, and my attacks have been traceable throughout the Days as a few others may already know. But certainly not you.

Anyways, there's my thoughts on the Magical Pendent. That's what I've only learned in 24 hours. I wish I had the rest of the Day, as I was going to unvote anyways. But I think I'll keep my pendent vote here longer anyways.

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by Normal Phase

Maybe a little (ok a lot) less wordy than he usually is as town, but the reactions and the reads are ok and don't look forced anywhere. But day one's easy and he hasn't been around in the four days since he said he was back. Jury's still out. I don't know if I could vote for him today or not.

See, THIS bothers me about Naf. He's coming off as Townie for what? Being less talkative than he normally does as Town
And he hasn't been around. So he's again under the radar.

I think we're ending up going for a lynch the Loud, and in a game of this size, scum should diversify- some loud, some quiet, and some in the middle. I think NAF is the one trying to fly under the radar by not getting any heat- BUT still leveling up and advancing his HP and abilities.

[Astral Rejection]

You're missing the point.

Why did you expect anyone to follow your lead, if you yourself think giving the pendant to the zombie is a bad idea? Why are you surprised you got called out for it, if you were planning on calling out others for following your lead?

Why do you think the pendant is better for magical users, when presumably nobody knows what it does? Why do you call it a "magical" pendant? Why is it necessarily bad for a soldier to get or want the pendant?

What does a reaction to an admittedly bad idea reveal about someone? Do only scum call out bad ideas? Do only townies follow your lead?

I don't understand any of your thought process, and it's filled with assumptions that you can't back up anyway. It sounds like reasoning after the fact to me.

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by MHaye

This was categorised as wishy-washy, because it is. Voting an item to someone then, in the very next breath, saying you don't trust them.

Now that you've heard my reasoning for the NAF Vote, AND for the Pendant Vote [And you're one of the few people that actually recall my style of playing], what do you think?

Do you need any further clarifications? Or still in the dark about me?

Unvote


Vote Pendant to Gadarene.

[Normal Phase]

Originally Posted by ToeJam

You're miscontruing my reasoning there for voting, Mhaye.

I am not voting Naf for being nonparticipatory.
I'm suspicious of him FOR BEING PARTICIPATORY.

He has been voting every day, he's been leveling up every day.
Yet, what's his contribution? Storyteller in his first day back has given more information and contributions than NAF, but NAF has gained at least 2 levels.

I'm voting for NAF, because he's flying under the radar, NOT because he's noncontributory. There's a difference.

Quite, but your characterization is not actually true. NAF on day one was more or less equivalent in terms of participation as Storyteller has been today. Storyteller's perhaps asking better questions, so I will give him some edge there, but it's not a huge one. And NAF does not actually have a vote down today, abstention or otherwise.

I actually think his non-participation so far on day three (after saying he was back) is a better case against him than having voted abstain on day two.

[Normal Phase]

Originally Posted by ToeJam

See, THIS bothers me about Naf. He's coming off as Townie for what? Being less talkative than he normally does as Town
And he hasn't been around. So he's again under the radar.

I think we're ending up going for a lynch the Loud, and in a game of this size, scum should diversify- some loud, some quiet, and some in the middle. I think NAF is the one trying to fly under the radar by not getting any heat- BUT still leveling up and advancing his HP and abilities.

It's possible - having just reviewed NAF's posts I'll give you that I think it's a legitimate spot to place a vote. I'm not entirely sure you were coming at it from a legitimate perspective.

I need to make sure I'm on solid ground with MHaye, next.

[Believerer]

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

Yes, you've repeatedly told us it's Day 1 for you. We get it.

What you haven't done is any real analysis of anybody's play, from this Day or any other.

summary of Believerer's Posts in this game

1518 - says hello
1782 - votes pendant to himself. wonders why there's only one lynch vote so far
1818 - mentions having issues preventing him from posting on day 2
1822 - confirms 'posting issues' were not a game mechanic
1825 - wonders who should get the pendant and why
1837 - hasn't been able to analyze much yet, except for normal phase. thinks he should get the pendandt because of his poor situation - not having leveled up becuause of not having voted in previous days
1839 - getting the pendant would make him feel better about his chances and help level the playing field
1886 - votes bobarrgh. agrees with scathach's analysis of bob
1917 - notes there are too many cases floating around, so he picked the best one he could find, since this is like day 1 to him
1936 - reiterates, in response to questioning, that his day 2 silence was due to RL issues
1981 - fluff post
2051 - comment on mod-kills
2068 - explains why his play in this game has been 'bad'

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

It's been 'Day 1' for you since last Tuesday. Haven't you been able to come up with anything in the last 9 days?

I have, I just voted you for skating by the whole day. Since one game day is 9 real time days on this forum, this is still technically D1 for me.

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

1598 - has caught up. mentions he's a bad mafia player. thinks normal is town, but could use some vote pressure. thinks visorslash is fishy, but could be third party or town
1644 - can't read normal phase. she is too dangerous to be left alone even if innocemt, which he's starting to doubt
1646 - we have evidence normal is not scum. a scummy normal would be laying lower
2065 - unvotes bobarrgh, votes suburban for not making a case on anyone else

I can't really see the complaints of not analyzing enough when even you bring up these posts I've made. What are these if not analyzis?
I'll take them in order.

1598 - I had spoken to Normal in private and she seems town to me, but as I mention in the later post, she has fooled me before. I lean town on her. Visorslash has been a bother for me on the .Org before, since he is irregular in my eyes and rarely stays within one distinguishable pattern.

1644 - I metagame Normal Phase here, saying that I can't see clearly whether she's town or scum. Regardless of this I think at this moment that she could be deserving pressure votes. Since then I've dropped much of my suspiciouns towards her due to private conversations. I've seen her as scum, this is not how she has behaved those times.

1646 - Sort of answered in the last one.

2065 - I don't vote you for not making a case, I vote you for sticking with the one you have for no apparent reasoning. You voted me which is simple, seeing as how I am both a replacement and new to this forum so nobody will object. You can easily vote me this round and either see me lynched. Researching a little on this forum I get the feeling that you are not a player that will take the easy way out. This is a huge scum tell for me and I think I've got you now.


All in all, the "case" you describe against me where you say I have not done analyzis doesn't hold up and you even quote me refuting it.

[Believerer]

I accidently fudged up the quotes, but you get the idea.

[Normal Phase]

Oh, right:

pendant to Silver Jan

I do think she's likely town. Astral, your case is not a bad one -- she clearly DID mis-represent herself where you said she did, for instance -- but I've seen townies do that before, and I've seen Silver Jan herself commit the other enumerated crimes before, and been a townie, I think. I'm not positive, but she's one of the earliest reads I've had and for now I'm sticking with it.

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by Astral Rejection

You're missing the point.

Why did you expect anyone to follow your lead, if you yourself think giving the pendant to the zombie is a bad idea? Why are you surprised you got called out for it, if you were planning on calling out others for following your lead?

Why do you think the pendant is better for magical users, when presumably nobody knows what it does? Why do you call it a "magical" pendant? Why is it necessarily bad for a soldier to get or want the pendant?

What does a reaction to an admittedly bad idea reveal about someone? Do only scum call out bad ideas? Do only townies follow your lead?

I don't understand any of your thought process, and it's filled with assumptions that you can't back up anyway. It sounds like reasoning after the fact to me.

Good Qs. I can deal with that.
1. I didn't expect anyone to follow my lead. I expected noone to vote the pendant to the Zombie. I wanted to see if anyone USED my vote as a way to justify something else.
2. Who says I'm surprised by the heat I'm getting? I'm not bitching about my votes. I just want to see the reasoning now for who votes for me. I know I'm not scum, so what better way to actually involve myself in the game than to use myself as a Control?
3. Pendant for magic users- because I have items that I can see are useful for me, you've mentioned your armor, that seems something a soldier would find useful, especially when guarding others. I too have an item that's useful for my job. It's an Axe and it allows me to do 80hp of damage. And I've been using it Daily vs. the Demon. And you can track my attacks each Day. I like transparency.
-So I'm under the assumption that a pendant is best served as useful by a MAGIC user and not a soldier. Is a mage really going to use my Axe to hack up someone? I mean i guess its possible, but D&D flavor wise, it'd make no sense.

So I am under the assumption that the pendants are most useful to those of that elemental- again not a fire elemental, so not really caring about the pendant.

4. Magical pendant- because what else is a Pendant? I'm imaging it to be some kind of necklace with a jewel encrusted flaming orb within it. Something out of a Dr. Strange Comic book like the Eye of Aggamotto or some such thing. :Shrug:
The ways of Magic users is not familiar to me- i know not their terms.

5. I don't think it's bad for a soldier to get it. But I don't see what use I'd have for it. So I don't care where it goes. Again 1 vote means nothing. If someone speaks up and says they have need of the pendant and it would help them- or that they're of a similar element of the pendent, I'd probably give it to 'em. No one has made such a proclamation. So I'll just throw it around. Again, let me know when some Armor or sheilds are available. I could have use for those.


6. The Scum/Townie question. No, I don't assume anything about it. Rather it's a Data point. I don't view this game as a short term day to day game. That's just foolish. I'm right now playing to get reactions and add to my collective knowledge. It can be useful for other players who may be investigative, and it may be useful to others who need to know how players are treating each other.

-I made a one off vote for a pendant. I got heat for it. Fair enough. I'm curious to see though who wants to view it as an Easy Lynch Target. Again, I'm the Control (I know my role, and I'm okay with Dying). So a lynch of me will provide further information for the Town. But I don't intend to roll over and die. I'd like to see who wants to lynch me and WHY do they want to do it. I view it as the best use of my character at this point.

Townies have bad ideas. Scum have bad ideas. Though actually, I feel townie are more likely to go along with Bad ideas than Scum. Scum should be and are usually more careful than that- They do NOT want to put themselves out there and they do NOT want to get heat because in a game like this- we don't know where LyLo is. We don't know how long it'll take to get there.

Scum may know their numbers, but they may be in the dark about SKs, PFKs, 3rd parties etc. And so again, they're playing towards their goal as well- which is to survive to the end. Getting early heat on themselves is probably NOT the play they want, so I personally feel scum are less likely to follow/instigate bad ideas- but they certainly won't mind joining them. Ie: a bandwagon is a perfect place to hide scum. But STARTING a bandwagon? That's rougher because it gives more heat- but again, my strategy as scum would be layering the votes- if one person is known for getting heat, let them be that person, let them start it off, and better yet, encourage the Townies to make the bad ideas.

Make sense?

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by Normal Phase

And NAF does not actually have a vote down today, abstention or otherwise.

I actually think his non-participation so far on day three (after saying he was back) is a better case against him than having voted abstain on day two.

But i fully expect him to come back and vote as some point.

[Gadarene]

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

By "Last Night", do you mean Night 2? Because there was no indication in the write-up this Morning that Phere was attacked last Night.

Sorry, I meant during the Day yesterDay.

Thanks for catching that.

[Gadarene]

Astral, do you know what the Pendant does?

[Normal Phase]

Originally Posted by ToeJam

But i fully expect him to come back and vote as some point.

Well he's got about 3.5 hours.

[Astral Rejection]

Originally Posted by Gadarene

Astral, do you know what the Pendant does?

Not a clue. I had another item kinda similar to it in addition to my armor, which is why I questioned his certainty that it was "good for magic users."

[Gadarene]

Originally Posted by Astral Rejection

Not a clue. I had another item kinda similar to it in addition to my armor, which is why I questioned his certainty that it was "good for magic users."

You were never given any option to use or equip it in any way?

[Astral Rejection]

No. I was given no instructions on how to use it, if I could. I elected to attack instead of try the item on Day 1 because I thought it might yield information, and I chose to attack Normal Phase on Day 2 because that sounded fun, and learning what the item did would serve no purpose if I'm dead.

Here are my guesses for what it could do:
1) Passively defend me from... Something. Either it'll add to my armor, protect me from certain elements, or something like that.
2) Actively affect someone. Either it'll straight out attack them (like a firebolt or the like), or debuff them in some way. Make them susceptible to attacks, reduce armor, something like that.

I intend to clarify that as soon as I can, and I'll report back to town after Dusk during the Night when I use the item.

[MHaye]

Originally Posted by ToeJam

Now that you've heard my reasoning for the NAF Vote, AND for the Pendant Vote [And you're one of the few people that actually recall my style of playing], what do you think?

That you have, probably wilfully, reversed your ground for your vote on NAF. You've also misstated his activity level.

Let's have a quick look at your vote post, post 1934. What you actually said was: -

Originally Posted by ToeJam

Vote Naf
for the leveling up w/o contributiing for the last few Days.

"w/o", at least as I understand it, is an abbreviation for "without." That is, you voted NAF for the levelling up without contributing. And yet replying to me you say: -

Originally Posted by ToeJam

You're miscontruing my reasoning there for voting, Mhaye.

I am not voting Naf for being nonparticipatory.
I'm suspicious of him FOR BEING PARTICIPATORY.

Those statements are directly contradictory.

And you're right, I do remember your style. You are quite happy to lie as a Town just because, an approach I've never agreed with.

He has been voting every day, he's been leveling up every day.

If that were true, that would be a null tell. It ensures his side is not disadvantaged for the period he could not participate. But it's not. Ass at the time of writing, NAF has not posted oncxe in Day 3 - not even with the most generous definition of Day. (ATPG began the Dawn calculations in 1757; NAF last posted in 1752.)

NAF had at least twelve posts in N0-N1. I'd need to reread them to answer that.

I'm voting for NAF, because he's flying under the radar, NOT because he's noncontributory. There's a difference.

He has been quiet Today, I'll give you that. But we were warned about Day 2 in advance. I'd have behaved the same way if I'd have been in his situation.

My conclusion is that you are contradicting yourself, and I'm not going to reverse my vote without a very good reason.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Astral Rejection

No. I was given no instructions on how to use it, if I could. I elected to attack instead of try the item on Day 1 because I thought it might yield information, and I chose to attack Normal Phase on Day 2 because that sounded fun, and learning what the item did would serve no purpose if I'm dead.

Here are my guesses for what it could do:
1) Passively defend me from... Something. Either it'll add to my armor, protect me from certain elements, or something like that.
2) Actively affect someone. Either it'll straight out attack them (like a firebolt or the like), or debuff them in some way. Make them susceptible to attacks, reduce armor, something like that.

I intend to clarify that as soon as I can, and I'll report back to town after Dusk during the Night when I use the item.

This might help.
I used an item on another player D2
It seemed to have no effect
I’m almost certain it cannot be used to target someone.
It might do something else.
( not much but maybe more than some had)
(I didn’t think it would cause damage but wondered if it would affect the player some other way

[Suburban Plankton]

Originally Posted by MHaye

Let's have a quick look at your vote post, post 1934. What you actually said was: -

"w/o", at least as I understand it, is an abbreviation for "without." That is, you voted NAF for the levelling up without contributing. And yet replying to me you say:-

Those statements are directly contradictory.

To be fair, I think there is a distinct difference between 'participating in the thread' and 'contributing to the game'.

[Suburban Plankton]

Do we really have 13 players who have not voted Today?

By my count, the following people have been active Today but have no votes:

BobArrgh
fubbleskag
gnarlycharlie
Silver Jan
storyteller0910 (voted and unvoted NAF1138 in the same post)
Tanaer

These folks haven't posted at all Today:

Lilflower
Mahaloth
NAF1138
PetW
realitytrip
Red Skeezix

And Mosier gets a pass (for the moment) for being Brainless.

[Suburban Plankton]

NETA:

I missed the fact that Tanaer did vote for Mosier at one point, but has since unvoted,

Also, fubbleskag, Silver Jan, and Tanaer all have votes in on the Pendant, just not on the Lynch

[BobArrgh]

Originally Posted by Normal Phase

I could be wrong, but I read that as him saying that he himself was one of the attackers.

To quote peekercpa: Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

[MHaye]

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

To be fair, I think there is a distinct difference between 'participating in the thread' and 'contributing to the game'.

A fair point. I suppose you could interpret "participatory" as meaning "has posted." I do not.

That also doesn't explain the claim that NAF has not contributed at all, since he plainly did on Day One.

[septimus]

ToeJam has posted many times, often with helpful pro-Town advice, but has never helped build any scum case. He tells us to use our votes to provide a record of our true sentiments, but uses his own votes to play games.

He claims, truthfully I imagine, that the peculiar vote was to help determine whether Players are soldiers or mages. But most (or all) players who fall for this trick will be Townies. If it's good for Townies to reveal their class, explain that and ask. If it's bad, then goading it is pro-Scum. Since it's generally accepted that a multi-player Scum team is smarter than any single Town player, if ToeJam the Sage can draw a deduction, so can the Scum team.

Originally Posted by ToeJam

-The people who've immediately disliked the idea of the Pendant going to the non-magical soldier have been noted though. That is certainly interesting, especially when they freak out over a single vote. They are highly paranoid, looking to build a case against me (using silly reasoning of an item vote),

FYI, you've been pinging me the whole game. I was about ready to vote you, and the peculiar Pendant gift dissuaded me: it was too blatantly anti-Town to be Scummy!!

Now that you've retracted it and explained its (pro-Scum) purpose, I feel more comfortable returning to my intuition.
Unvote; Vote: ToeJam

[choie]

Sorry I've still not contributed much yesterday & today (real time, that is). Mind is very much elsewhere.

vote count please? This plea goes out to anyone who's of a mind to tally the scores, as I believe askthepizzaguy seems to prefer we do our own tallying.

I have a feeling my vote on Gadarene is the only one, and I'm a bit surprised, but maybe my instincts are off along with most of my brain cells.

I do think Lynch the Lurker idea promulgated by... uh, don't remember... is a feasible one, for the reason s/he stated: if we let someone get mod-killed, and we lynch someone else, at least one of these lynches is likely to be a mislynch, possibly both. (Just going by the numbers here.) If we lynch just the lurker in danger of mod-killing, there's one fewer possible mislynches on our hands. The odds are more in our favor if we're in charge of the lynch rather than our glorious mod -- or Phere and whoever's making him dance.

[gnarlycharlie]

Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton

I might be able to tell you...


...if you will tell me what PC stands for in this context...

is that Phase Change?


--------------------------

i didn't realize NAF's absence. it certainly rubs me the wrong way that comes in to vote and disappear. i thought he said he'd be away though so i'll take it as face value. while i understand Toejam's vote, i'm giving NAF the benefit of the doubt.

i am troubled by the way MHaye seemed to make it seem that Toejam's vote for NAF was suspicious when it was fairly clear to me that it was NAF's kind of participation that Toejam was against.

Vote MHaye

[BobArrgh]

I have completely lost track of when this Day will end, and do not have time to build a solid case on anyone, and won't be able to for the rest of this day (small "d"). (My granddaughter has a school function tonight that we are attending, and we won't get home until late tonight.)

Tanaer has pinged me as scummy because of her membership on the Astral wagon yesterDay, but that is not enough reason to vote her.

Normal Phase was high on my list when dawn started toDay for her very vocal participation in the Astral wagon, but after re-reading her posts last night, I have put her into my "Probably Townie" column.

NAF is, as ToeJam said, appearing to fly under the radar, and that strikes me as very interesting, so for now,

Vote NAF1138