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  #51  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:48 AM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Originally Posted by purplehorseshoe View Post
I'm sorry you feel embarassed. My experience has been that nearly everyone can relate and sympathize; even bullies get picked on by other bullies sometimes.
It's elementary/middle/high school. Everyone gets picked on by everyone at some point. You even have bullies in college and the adult workplace.

There is definitely a different perception these days on the whole notion of "bullying". When I was growing up (mostly in the 80s), it was basically accepted that social cliques and bullying was a part of growing up. Teachers weren't there to police you. They simply couldn't be everywhere at once or they simply didn't care. Why would they? Half of them were jerks themselves.
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  #52  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:00 AM
Rachellelogram Rachellelogram is offline
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Say what you will about the younger generation these days in regards to motivation and attention span. But the anti-bullying movement is the best thing to come from that demographic in years, if not decades.
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  #53  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:23 AM
monstro monstro is offline
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I don't think the younger generation is responsible for anti-bullying stuff. It's their parents (my generation) that are saying "enough is enough".

I think it's great that people are paying more attention. I do wonder how schools regulate this kind of behavior. Zero-tolerance policies are not good.

I don't know if I was bullied or just harrassed as a kid--or maybe they aren't distinguished? I was called names but never beaten up. People would laugh when I would do something unintentionally, like bumping into a desk or asking a stupid question. Is that bullying? Once some boys took my sweater and played "monkey in the middle" with it during class (while we had substitute teacher). They were picking on me and I didn't like watching my sweater fly up in the air over my head, but it didn't hurt my feelings. (I only started to cry when the substitute teacher threatened to send me to the principal's office).

I had a great teacher in middle school. She made it her duty to protect me from the obnoxious behavior directed towards me whenever it showed up in class. Once, she'd intercepted a note floating around in class about me, and she made me do an errand for her while she tore into the class (according to a classmate). You can imagine what resulted from this. I was "teacher's pet". I got harrassed for having an adult fight my battles for me...even though I had never asked her to do anything. It solidified my credentials as a retard. So I ended up sticking to this teacher like glue, because she was the only person that I could stand.

Perhaps I'm just blaming the victim now that I'm looking back at this period through the mists of time....but I think I actually deserved all of it. I WAS a dork. I could have tried harder to conform and not be such a froot-loop, and I think a part of me enjoyed the ostracism because it confirmed to me that I was "different" from the crowd (which I never wanted to belong to).

I don't know what I'm trying to say. Only that I hope there is some nuance to how people are being disciplined.
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  #54  
Old 04-26-2012, 07:22 AM
Rachellelogram Rachellelogram is offline
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Originally Posted by monstro View Post
I got harrassed for having an adult fight my battles for me...even though I had never asked her to do anything. It solidified my credentials as a retard.
This is indicative that there has been a paradigm-shift in the younger generation, though. I'm not saying it's ALL on them, but kids back in the 70s wouldn't have allowed their parents to intervene. Now, they do.
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  #55  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:54 AM
snowthx snowthx is offline
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My brother lives with mental illness. He is in his 40s and has not progressed very well thru life. He lives alone and on public assistance. He is not a substance abuser and is non-violent. He just never was able to get his act together.

Our parents are both gone now, so there is no one to ask, but I know he was always sort of odd as a kid. He much preferred going to the library at school rather than go outside and have to socialize. I guess he was always painfully shy - which, by high school meant he became a target.

A few months ago we were discussing his issues and he revealed to me that he was a victim of bullying in high school. He explained how he was the surrounded in the boys restroom by 3-4 of his classmates and grabbed and held as if he were about to get a flushie. They did not go all the way, thankfully. He said that was the main incident that solidified the path he took in life. Victimhood, anxiety, depression, socially awkward, few friends and fewer close relationships.

I never knew about this until he told me, and it explained a lot. Some people may be strengthened by the challenges of being bullied and get over it and move on to become confident adults, but I bet the are a lot more that do bear deep scars for life.
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  #56  
Old 04-26-2012, 09:10 AM
SticksAndString SticksAndString is offline
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I've been asking this question for a long time.

I'm also curious if teachers, etc still tell kids "If you ignore the bully, they'll go away because bullying you gives them power." or something to that effect (which if I had a dollar for every time somebody said that to me growing up, I'd be a forking millionaire right now). I know that when I tried that tactic, it never seemed to work because it just seem to infuriate the bully more and they would up the ante, trying to see how far they could push me before I'd break down and lash out.
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  #57  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:15 AM
Mister Rik Mister Rik is offline
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Originally Posted by monstro View Post
Perhaps I'm just blaming the victim now that I'm looking back at this period through the mists of time....but I think I actually deserved all of it. I WAS a dork. I could have tried harder to conform and not be such a froot-loop, and I think a part of me enjoyed the ostracism because it confirmed to me that I was "different" from the crowd (which I never wanted to belong to).
You've reminded me of something I've often thought about. I was never outright "beaten up" in school, but I was "picked on" and ostracized in grade school and junior high. When I would complain about this at home, my mother would give me the "They're just jealous because you're so smart" line. Sure, I was smart, and my mom meant well, but telling me that was counterproductive because I believed it 100% (hey, Mom wouldn't lie to me!) As a young kid, it simply didn't occur to me that my own behavior, however non-deliberate, might be provoking other kids to pick on me. No, they were picking on me for being smart, and I really couldn't do anything about how smart I was, now could I?
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  #58  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:30 AM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is online now
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Originally Posted by Mister Rik View Post
You've reminded me of something I've often thought about. I was never outright "beaten up" in school, but I was "picked on" and ostracized in grade school and junior high. When I would complain about this at home, my mother would give me the "They're just jealous because you're so smart" line.
From my parents, I got "they're just teasing you because they like you!"

I think even kids have an instinctive sense of the difference between good-natured ribbing and outright malice intended solely to humiliate. My parents' cluelessness only made it worse.
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  #59  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:33 AM
MyFootsZZZ MyFootsZZZ is offline
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I still daydream about getting back at my bullies. Not by violence, but by humiliation.
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  #60  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:43 AM
Soylent Juicy Soylent Juicy is offline
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Originally Posted by rachelellogram View Post
..... but kids back in the 70s wouldn't have allowed their parents to intervene. Now, they do.
I agree, as a kid who went to public school from 1978-1986. This sounds terrible but when I hear about a kid getting picked on or bullied nowadays and the first thing they do is run to a teacher or parent I automatically think "What a candy-ass."

I like to think that if my hypothetical child (I'm never having kids so I get to daydream about these things) were to be bullied I'd tell them to FIGHT BACK - yell, swear, punch, whatever it takes - and I'll deal with the school administration. In my daydreams my kid would NOT put up with that bullshit and I would have their back 100%, as long as they were acting in total self-defense.

I actually think that it's wrong that kids aren't being taught to fight back against personal attacks - if some random stranger attacked me on the street I'd damn well fight back, why not if someone attacks you at school? There are no teachers/principals/counselors to run to in the real world.
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  #61  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:58 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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My years in school were hell.

And no, I didn't get over it.
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  #62  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:27 PM
etv78 etv78 is online now
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I wasn't bullied for two reasons:

1.IMO I was nice to, and liked by, most everbody.
2.It's considered bad form to bully the kid in the wheelchair.
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  #63  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:51 PM
Nawth Chucka Nawth Chucka is offline
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Originally Posted by etv78 View Post
I wasn't bullied for two reasons:

1.IMO I was nice to, and liked by, most everbody.
2.It's considered bad form to bully the kid in the wheelchair.
No one seemed to mind bullying the kid in the scoliosis brace (though my dumbass brother broke his knuckle punching me in the stomach, don't know how he forgot there was a metal bar there).
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  #64  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:20 PM
etv78 etv78 is online now
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I meant school bullying. Though my 2 older brothers didn't bully me. (my younger bro took the brunt)
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  #65  
Old 04-26-2012, 09:48 PM
Poodlegirl Poodlegirl is offline
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I was bullied when I was a kid. Girls can really be bitches, you know? Of course, I was so naive I thought if I was nice to them and said kind things they would be nice to me and like me. I feel such sadness for myself as a little girl. I would tell my mother and she wouldn't do anything, "Just ignore it..." I can only imagine how the father of one of my bullies felt as he held me over their bathroom sink (I was what, 6?) so my foot could bleed into it and I told him that his precious girl sent me to do something in order to "maybe" join her club. I stepped on a tent stake and needed stitches to sew up that gash. That bitchy girl gave me a hard time afterward (no,duh) because she got in trouble.

I could go on and on. I can name people, give dates, tell incredibly detailed stories about all the bullies I ever encountered, up to and including a principal I worked for a few years back.

I live in a state where bullying is actually against the law. It's on the books and bullying is defined so as not to be confused with just "shitty people who say crappy things." I'm a teacher and we have been trained and professionally developed on this law. My kid was getting bullied this year. I waited. I made sure it was actual bullying not just a "shitty person who was saying crappy things" to my kid. We talked to the counselor who talked to the kid. The kid took it to Facebook. That escalated the bullying to the next level. We told the counselor (and, as good GenX-ers, reminded him that our attorney could come in and explain the law if they needed help), he talked to the kids again (by this time there were about 7 of them) and their parents and it stopped. Just...like...that.

Retaliation is against the law here. Oh, and my kid? He told me that he just wanted the kids to shut up. Since this incident, he has stood up for another kid who was being bullied. Told the kids to shut up and leave him alone (which, btw, he had told his own bullies). He told me he wasn't going to put up with it and that as long as he was around he would always speak up. He really is some kid.
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  #66  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:58 PM
snowthx snowthx is offline
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Originally Posted by Soylent Juicy View Post
I actually think that it's wrong that kids aren't being taught to fight back against personal attacks - if some random stranger attacked me on the street I'd damn well fight back, why not if someone attacks you at school? There are no teachers/principals/counselors to run to in the real world.
I think I read one time here on the Dope to tell your kids if they are being bullied: Hit back twice as hard, twice as fast. The bullying will cease. I don't know how effective it is in real life, but it sounds good on paper.
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  #67  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:09 PM
2square4u 2square4u is offline
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Yes, it does sound good on paper. Yes, it works sometimes. No, it definitely doesn't work every time.

All of this IME and anecdotal, of course.
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  #68  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:47 AM
Becky2844 Becky2844 is offline
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I don't remember ever getting into a fight about something concerning me, but my younger brother was a perfect victim. A bumbling doofus with a big trusting smile on his face. Very intelligent but socially inept. Whenever somebody hurt him he'd tell me after school as we started walking home. Somewhere down the long hill I'd tell him to wait on the sidewalk while I hid behind the hedges. When the offending kid starting walking by, usually an older boy, I'd jump out and try to beat the shit out of him. I remember one big guy palming my forehead as I swung air in front of his belly, finally landing a few blows, saying Please don't. Please don't. I thought I was a hard-ass, but really I was just embarrassing the boys to death. School mornings went like this: the Pledge of Alligance; some kid would read a Bible verse; roll call; and then the teacher would say Becky, report to the office. Took me about a year and a half, two years, before they finally got the picture and I didn't have to fight so much. Late '50s.

Mid-eighties, my older son was accosted by two older boys at his locker, barely getting a swing in. All three were suspended for three days because the school had a No Tolerance Policy. (The victim was...part of the problem?) While he was out I'd remind him that he didn't do anything wrong--that the school was wrong and for him to never let anybody tell him he couldn't take up for himself.

Late eighties(?), my younger son was in Special Ed. One of the teachers' aides would berate the class. (I know because I was a lunch aide that year and could hear her from out in the hall.) Not his teacher, or I would have torn her a new one. But I let them know I knew what was going on and didn't like it.

It's good that schools are cracking down on peer bullying, and that people are wiring their kids to catch school staff that are doing the bullying, too. Youtube seems to have brought about a lot of emotional retrobution. (sp) If I had a kid on Facebook I would insist on being a "Friend," and would jump in if things got abusive.

I guess I've got a hands-on approach, but it cuts thru a lot of crap.

Last edited by Becky2844; 04-27-2012 at 12:51 AM..
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  #69  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:24 AM
Emtar KronJonDerSohn Emtar KronJonDerSohn is offline
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Originally Posted by enipla View Post
I was one of the biggest kids in school, so I had few problems. Except for this on little shit. I guess he was trying to make his mark by picking on someone twice as big as him. It was quite humiliating for me because I just took it. It was just verbal abuse, and he was trying to get me to throw the first punch.

Glad I didn't as a .45 was later found in his locker...

This was 8th grade.


I had a similar experience growing up. I'm gianormous, and it seemed like every little late blooming punk kid with a napoleaonic complex felt the need to fight me in high school to prove their worth. Teachers all had the same attitude that I could handle myself because I was bigger than they were. Eventually I'd always reach out and touch someone and find myself in the office calmly explaining that yes, he's f-Ed up and broken and I'm fine, but he has been following me around for the last 2 days physically assaulting me and I tapped the kid one time.

That said, I think it's ridiculous how bullying is handled these days. It's pedantic whiny bullshit, sending emails to the school board and trying to create a papertrail and schools around here tell kids to actually sue each other civilly if they feel they're being bullied. Personally I just raise my children to be confident and have some sense of self worth and a thick enough skin to deal with other people who aren't always nice. I see people at work who are in HR every single week tattling on someone who parked too close to their car or told an inappropriate joke in the break room and I don't want my kids to be like that.
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  #70  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:59 AM
LoonyMoon LoonyMoon is offline
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Bullying took a scary twist for me

I agree with many of the posters about bullying. I grew up in the '50s where you just didn't tattle to teachers or parents about being bullied. There was much more of a 'kids will be kids' attitude back then. Plus there was one teacher per 30-35 kids in each class and I don't think they had the time or inclination to handle anything other than just getting a day's teaching done.

The school I went to had grades 1 through 8, so there were bullies of all ages there. I was 7 or 8 and got cornered in a dark garage by several "big" boys (thinking back on it they were probably 10-12 at most, but seemed pretty old to me). They stripped off all my clothes and exposed me to each other. Thankfully, nothing worse happened, but I just froze at the time and couldn't even think what to do--I pretty much went off somewhere in my head. I never did tell anyone about it until years and years later; I was way too ashamed and always felt it was my fault.

I've since moved past this, but I hate to think what happens in the heads of those who have been bullied and let it adversely affect their lives.
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  #71  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:21 AM
2square4u 2square4u is offline
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Originally Posted by Emtar KronJonDerSohn View Post
That said, I think it's ridiculous how bullying is handled these days. It's pedantic whiny bullshit, sending emails to the school board and trying to create a papertrail and schools around here tell kids to actually sue each other civilly if they feel they're being bullied. Personally I just raise my children to be confident and have some sense of self worth and a thick enough skin to deal with other people who aren't always nice. I see people at work who are in HR every single week tattling on someone who parked too close to their car or told an inappropriate joke in the break room and I don't want my kids to be like that.
I'm afraid that a suitable answer to this pile of bullshit requires us to be in another sub-forum. Like the Pit.
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  #72  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:36 AM
lavenderviolet lavenderviolet is offline
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I have experienced bullying both as a child and an adult, though not to the extremes that some have experienced. With my run-ins with adult bullies - I've noticed that some people seem to mistake my tendency to be a quiet person as meaning that I can be pushed around. Fortunately, I've learned how to stand up for myself better as an adult than I was able to do as a kid.

As for the idea that some people become "stronger" from bullying and others are "damaged" from it, I disagree that there is really such a difference between these groups. I think a lot depends on how you choose to look at things.
You don't have control over what other people have done to you. However, I do think that you have control over how you choose to view that experience and how important you let it be in your life.
In the op's case, if you feel that your past of being bullied has held you back socially, it's not too late to work on learning social skills (yes, it can be awkward trying to learn to be social past the age when most people do, but it can be done).
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  #73  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:36 AM
MsRobyn MsRobyn is offline
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Originally Posted by Emtar KronJonDerSohn View Post
That said, I think it's ridiculous how bullying is handled these days. It's pedantic whiny bullshit, sending emails to the school board and trying to create a papertrail and schools around here tell kids to actually sue each other civilly if they feel they're being bullied. Personally I just raise my children to be confident and have some sense of self worth and a thick enough skin to deal with other people who aren't always nice. I see people at work who are in HR every single week tattling on someone who parked too close to their car or told an inappropriate joke in the break room and I don't want my kids to be like that.
Aside from the fact that I agree with 2square4u, I take issue with the basic premise of your post.

In a perfect world, all it would take is confidence and a thick skin and the bullying problem would be solved once and for all. But it's not a perfect world and, consequently, we have bullies who go beyond "not so nice" and into criminal assault and battery, libel, and other forms of legally actionable behavior.

And sometimes, it's the confident and thick-skinned kids who are the targets because they attract the attention of those kids who aren't, and who are maladjusted enough to act. I knew a high school senior who was this girl until her parents divorced; she became fair game after that and almost lost out on a college scholarship because of some very cruel posts about her and her mother that came up in a Google search. She went from being a bright and confident girl to being an emotional wreck, and the girls responsible for this were never held accountable.

Let's face it. There is often no rhyme or reason to who bullies and who is bullied. Some bullies are victims themselves and are acting out because they need help. Some victims are social misfits who are bullied because they don't fit in. And some bullies are just assholes who bully for sport, and some victims are patsies who go out of their way to be bullied. In the absence of any psychological or sociological breakthrough, the best we can do is pay closer attention to what happens, to address it when it does, and hold those responsible accountable for their actions. If the school and the police refuse to act, that's what the courts are for. When bullying causes some real economic damage, the victim has the right to be made whole. And that's all there is to it.
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  #74  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:01 PM
Nawth Chucka Nawth Chucka is offline
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I concur w/ MsRobyn and I'll take it a little further; if I was held and beaten on one occasion going to a store I could call the police and someone would be arrested.

But since I was held and beaten by classmates nearly every time I went to the bus stop or out on recess or walked home from the bus stop after being harassed on the bus it's NOT an offense?

If a stranger ran up to me in a parking lot and hit me w/ a fist so hard on the top of my head that I nearly fainted from the pain that person could be prosecuted for battery. But b/c it was my brother in our own home I should understand that 'boys will be boys'?

How does familiarity w/ one's attackers excuse those same attackers in any way that ISN'T victim-blaming? How is it parents are supposed to accept their kids being assaulted by classmates but on guard for minimal attention from strangers?
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  #75  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:51 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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I think violence should definitely be handled with swiftly.

Name-calling, rumor-milling, and blatant meanness are other things that should be stomped down.

But looking on back on my childhood, there was a lot of stuff that I don't know how to categorize. Like, on more than one occasion I was the "monkey in the middle". Whether it was my sweater or bookbag or lunch, I was always made to play the fool. An outsider looking in might say, "Oh, that poor girl." But if you'd asked me at the time, would I have called it bullying? Would I have wanted the kids fooling around with me to be disciplined? No. And it wouldn't have had anything to do with not wanting to face the repurcusions, but rather not knowing how to separate "play" from "harassment". Sometimes it was okay being the monkey and other times it wasn't. I'm not sure I would have always been able to say how I was feeling--and it probably wouldn't have shown in my demeanor.

Do the "anti-bullying" measures always hinge on the victims coming forward? Or are adults required to stop any activity that has any level of "non-niceness" to it? I would have some concerns about the second. I think the booger-eating kid in the class should be able to go about his life without being teased or harrassed. But I guess I would have a problem if teachers forced other kids to play with the booger-eating kid when they would otherwise ignore him.
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  #76  
Old 04-27-2012, 04:38 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Originally Posted by snowthx View Post
I think I read one time here on the Dope to tell your kids if they are being bullied: Hit back twice as hard, twice as fast. The bullying will cease. I don't know how effective it is in real life, but it sounds good on paper.
I tried that--it never helped.
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  #77  
Old 04-27-2012, 05:14 PM
Derleth Derleth is offline
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Originally Posted by MsRobyn View Post
we have bullies who go beyond "not so nice" and into criminal assault and battery, libel, and other forms of legally actionable behavior.
Nonsense. You see, those are a special class of crime that only adults I agree with and respect can possibly be victims of. Everyone else who claims victim status in that regard is a whining, puling little pissant who needs to be taught how the Real World works. Also, it's probably really fucking funny to watch them being 'victimized' so let's get it up on YouTube so we can all join in the laughs.
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  #78  
Old 04-27-2012, 05:22 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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Is the Real World the way it is because that's just how it is and how it always will be?

Or is the Real World a malleable thing within human control that can change with societal enlightenment and maturity?
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  #79  
Old 04-27-2012, 05:51 PM
Beware of Doug Beware of Doug is offline
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Originally Posted by monstro View Post
Is the Real World the way it is because that's just how it is and how it always will be?

Or is the Real World a malleable thing within human control that can change with societal enlightenment and maturity?
The term is generally used for the parts of life we can't change, rather than those we can.
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  #80  
Old 04-27-2012, 06:07 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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Originally Posted by Beware of Doug View Post
The term is generally used for the parts of life we can't change, rather than those we can.
How can we know what it is we can or cannot change if we never try?
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  #81  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:00 PM
Beware of Doug Beware of Doug is offline
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The whole point of using the phrase real world is (usually) to encourage acceptance of various aspects of the status quo. You know what you shouldn't try to change because you're told, and that is (or should be) that.

Last edited by Beware of Doug; 04-27-2012 at 10:00 PM..
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  #82  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:02 PM
Sleel Sleel is offline
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I was bullied sometimes in school. Not systematically or severely, but I did have some problems in most of my schools. The last time I had a serious problem was when I was a freshman. Three older guys about a head taller than me chased me down the hallway and tried to beat the crap out of me when they caught me. Even looking back on the situation I canít see why they went about it the way they did. I can see why they picked me as a target, but I donít know why they were so intent on actually trying to hurt me ó so intent that they stupidly and publicly attacked me in a situation where they were sure to get caught.

Itís not ďblaming the victimĒ to say that you sometimes know what makes you a target. I was socially backward, partly because I was naturally one of those people who hangs back and studies situations before participating, and partly because of an unusual upbringing, which included moving several times. It didnít help that I was smart and often had more interests in common with adults than with kids my age.

I acted weird. Some of it I probably couldnít help, but some of my behavior could have been changed if I really wanted to. By the time I was in my second year of high school, I had in fact already started to change my behavior. I didnít always share the same interests as other kids, but I did try at least to adopt protective camouflage.

I was also pretty small until growth spurts during puberty finally put me into the normal range. I spent most of my childhood being one of the smaller kids in my age bracket, which I think also had some psychological effects for years after I got most of my full growth.

Things that helped ameliorate the potential for being abused were that even though I was small, I was fast and tough from growing up in the country and being very active. I did gymnastics from age 10, which marked me as weird, but also made me strong as hell for my size, quick, and agile. I was smart enough to figure out situations quickly and find ways to fix or route around problems. And after a certain amount of negative attention, I learned that when you canít either defuse or outrun a situation, you damn well better be able to fight. No, one incident wonít change things permanently, but showing that youíre not just going to get beaten up without causing some damage makes the likelihood of violence smaller. Eventually.

I did swimming near the end of my freshman year, and added diving the year after. While those arenít the manliest of sports, it did help to be a semi-jock. I started training in martial arts when I was sixteen. Between that as a confidence booster, the occasional gymnastics training I kept up with for the help with diving, and the obvious physical change of being average height finally, I didnít have more than a couple of nasty looks and some shoving at school. Iíd changed from being a victim to being a more dangerous target, so the bullies didnít bother me anymore.

Because of my past, though, I was more than willing to intervene if someone was getting shit from bullies. Later, as an adult, that got me into a few life-threatening situations.

If it had been actual abuse when I was younger, Iím not sure how I would have reacted. I think I would have become violent, not withdrawn. As it is, I think Iím more confrontational than I would have been if Iíd been treated normally all the time. Iím tactful when I have to be, but I have no problem telling someone to back the fuck off if theyíre being shitty to me. Iím also not all that trusting of authority.

Though my teachers were generally okay, I learned that you canít really trust anyone to either believe you or respond the way youíd like them to. I ended up in ďcounselingĒ because of a story I wrote in 6th grade that had some violent and sexual content. Iíd been reading at an adult level since I was about seven or eight, so itís really no surprise that I wrote similar stuff to what I read.

Their working theory must have been that I was ďacting outĒ because of problems at home, so they kept asking questions about my home life that I didnít want to answer because ó fuck you ó my parents and my family are none of your goddamn business. If you wanted to help, you should have kept the small group of violent little shits who used to try to corner me in the playground the hell away from me.
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  #83  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:21 PM
Derleth Derleth is offline
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Is the Real World the way it is because that's just how it is and how it always will be?

Or is the Real World a malleable thing within human control that can change with societal enlightenment and maturity?
The Real World is the way it is because it benefits and/or amuses those of us who are mature enough to accept it and coerce the rest of you whining infants into silence.
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  #84  
Old 04-28-2012, 08:35 AM
monstro monstro is offline
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The Real World is the way it is because it benefits and/or amuses those of us who are mature enough to accept it and coerce the rest of you whining infants into silence.
I'm glad people who pushed through the civil rights movement didn't believe this batshit craziness.

The world is what we will it to be. There are forces that can't be changed--like hurricanes and floods--but human behavior can be changed. If it couldn't, people would still be dumping their excrement on the streets. People would still think it was alright to enslave others. Now, the majority of people see a problem with these activities. We've decided that those things are indecent ways of behaving.

I have never been harrassed or bullied as an adult, so I'm not sure what I was being prepared for as a youngster. The only positive thing that came from it was that I developed a self-deprecating self of humor. I don't think I was traumatized (others who know me may disagree). I don't think I was the most pitiable victim in the world. But it didn't help me very much in my life. It didn't make me tough or brave or smarter. Nor did it make me conform either.

I'm feeling ambivalent about this whole anti-bullying stuff (if you'll read my posts, you'll see this). But I don't know how we can possibly expect grown-ass adults to report bad behavior to authority figures, when we don't teach them this lesson in childhood. It seems to me reporting bullying activity is snipping future criminality in the bud and also empowering people--victims and bystanders--to not be passive about shit going down. AND--here's the wonderful thing--you can also teach your child to defend themselves, if it comes to that. It's not an either/or thing.
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  #85  
Old 04-28-2012, 02:42 PM
Derleth Derleth is offline
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I'm glad people who pushed through the civil rights movement didn't believe this batshit craziness.
No, but Emmet Till certainly felt the wrath of those who did.

My point is, don't expect too much rationality from bullies. They do what they do because it amuses them, it discomfits others, and they don't fear anyone who's interested in stopping them. Any plan that doesn't include a proverbial (and, likely, literal) Big Stick isn't going to work in the short or long term.
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  #86  
Old 04-28-2012, 03:39 PM
Runs With Scissors Runs With Scissors is offline
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When I was in school (late 70s/early 80s) if you were bullied YOU were the problem because it meant you were weak. You could tell a teacher or principal but nothing was going to happen because it made you a "sissy" and teachers HATED sissies.

Also, a fair amount of verbal bullying was committed by quite a few teachers. Not a majority, but quite a few.
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  #87  
Old 04-28-2012, 04:17 PM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is online now
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They do what they do because it amuses them, it discomfits others, and they don't fear anyone who's interested in stopping them.
They don't fear people trying to stop them because there's generally so little effort. As soon as the authorities do make a serious effort, the bullying stops; which is why you don't see gangs of bullies roaming around the workplace beating up unpopular coworkers. That's treated as assault, not "boys will be boys"; so it doesn't normally happen.

And no, it has little to do with people becoming more mature; when the authorities decide to look the other way on something like gay bashing or when they lose control like in a riot, you can see that the thugs are still there. They are just as adults under more pressure to behave in a civilized fashion; give them permission and they'll start in with the brutality again.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:01 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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No, but Emmet Till certainly felt the wrath of those who did.
It sounds like you're saying that Emmet Till was not a victim of other people's brutality, but of his own naivety. That because his behavior didn't conform to the wacked-out rules of that particular time and place, he deserved to die. If that's not what you're intimating by bringing up his name, I don't know what your point is.

I hope my imaginary children would have the guts to be who they are. Whether they stutter, fail to conform perfectly to gender roles, or illicit jealous due to having inherited their mother's good looks and brains, they would be expected to hold their heads up high and not let other people's hate bring them down. And if people do harrass them and it upsets them enough, they would be instructed to tell an adult. Just as I would instruct a co-worker to tell the boss about an offensive person in the workplace.

But I can also give my imaginary children full permission to go "cobra" on someone who gets in their face when external back-up is not available. Which was something Emmet Till couldn't do. There wasn't anything that Emmet could do to avoid his fate other than turning back the hand of time and acting meek and docile in front of that white woman. Is that what you want our children to do? Turn into meek and docile non-personalities to avoid the harshness of the "real world"? Yeah, those type of people NEVER get the shit kicked out of them.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:39 PM
Derleth Derleth is offline
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It sounds like you're saying that Emmet Till was not a victim of other people's brutality, but of his own naivety.
If you got that out of what I posted, you're not reading what I'm writing and responding to you is pointless.
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  #90  
Old 04-28-2012, 08:59 PM
monstro monstro is offline
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It would be nice if you would explain what your point is.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:42 AM
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Growing up, tattling was used to mean telling on someone when no one got hurt, and, even then, it was something only thought bad in grade school. I don't know how much of that is the small town community and thus the social repercussions for bullying and how much of that is because of the bullying enlightenment, but bullying seemed to mostly be something only the violent people experienced. Or football players, as the coach was an asshole.

Anyways, I wonder how much the bullying everyone else has experienced creates a desire not to fight back even in places where you are perfectly safe.
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  #92  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:40 AM
lavenderviolet lavenderviolet is offline
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Thought people might like seeing this story about bullies who ended up trying to make amends after they found out how much they had hurt the victim years later:
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...151966805.html

It's quite possible that the bullies that you think about now with such anger do feel bad about how they treated you. Sometimes people do change.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:29 AM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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Bullys today seem meaner and more violent today than when I grew up in the 70's. The typical schoolyard fight lasted less than a couple minutes. A few punches and roll around on the ground. It was always one on one. I was always aware in schoolyard fights that I couldn't go too far. You don't stomp somebody in the head or face. We knew there were limits in a schoolyard fight.

Youtube videos today are very frightening. Kids getting jumped by three or more people. Kicked and stomped. The level of violence is so far beyond any schoolyard fight that I witnessed.

I can see why bullies today are so much more of a concern.

This cops daughter got jumped by 4 girls.Posted on youtube. What kind of fight is this??? 4 against 1? WTF is wrong with people today?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-internet.html

Last edited by aceplace57; 05-19-2012 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:31 AM
MyFootsZZZ MyFootsZZZ is offline
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Originally Posted by lavenderviolet View Post
Thought people might like seeing this story about bullies who ended up trying to make amends after they found out how much they had hurt the victim years later:
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...151966805.html

It's quite possible that the bullies that you think about now with such anger do feel bad about how they treated you. Sometimes people do change.
I can forgive, but the damage is already done, and can't be taken back. But yeah, they were younger, and I can't hold a grudge.
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  #95  
Old 05-19-2012, 03:29 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Bullys today seem meaner and more violent today than when I grew up in the 70's. The typical schoolyard fight lasted less than a couple minutes. A few punches and roll around on the ground. It was always one on one. I was always aware in schoolyard fights that I couldn't go too far. You don't stomp somebody in the head or face. We knew there were limits in a schoolyard fight.

Youtube videos today are very frightening. Kids getting jumped by three or more people. Kicked and stomped. The level of violence is so far beyond any schoolyard fight that I witnessed.

I can see why bullies today are so much more of a concern.

This cops daughter got jumped by 4 girls.Posted on youtube. What kind of fight is this??? 4 against 1? WTF is wrong with people today?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-internet.html
In the 70s, I was attacked in groups of 3 or 4, more than once.
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  #96  
Old 05-19-2012, 04:17 PM
Clothahump Clothahump is offline
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Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's a higher level of awareness these days on how miserable life can be if you're a kid that's being picked on or bullied.

Being bullied myself, I would have to say that there's definitely some permanent damage that's been done as a result. I have emotional scars, and I can't even imagine how life, (particularly the social aspect of it), would be different if I had never been a target.
I agree 100%. I'm quite sure that the reason I teach Taekwondo and bully prevention today is because I was the class punching bag when I was a kid.

The wounds might heal but the scars stay forever.
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  #97  
Old 05-19-2012, 08:28 PM
Beware of Doug Beware of Doug is offline
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Am I alone in thinking that the anti-bullying movement wouldn't have had a chance in hell in the cultural mainstream if it hadn't made common cause with the LGBT community?
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  #98  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:45 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is online now
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I used to have a serious mental illness (I haven't had symptoms in a long time though) and there were times when I would do inappropriate things either because I wasn't in charge of my faculties or because I was too far gone to understand what was appropriate vs inappropriate. I experienced some pretty bad bullying from that. the sad part is the bullying came from officials, so nobody cared or intervened. You don't forget being bullied by the police when you are too mentally ill to understand what you did wrong (nothing I did was illegal, just inappropriate). I wish I could let that event go but I can't. Cops are supposed to protect people who can't protect themselves. To this day I struggle with a hatred of the police. Fucking painful situation. I really needed to be segregated from society.

Last edited by Wesley Clark; 05-19-2012 at 09:49 PM..
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  #99  
Old 05-20-2012, 01:19 PM
MyFootsZZZ MyFootsZZZ is offline
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I used to have a serious mental illness (I haven't had symptoms in a long time though) and there were times when I would do inappropriate things either because I wasn't in charge of my faculties or because I was too far gone to understand what was appropriate vs inappropriate. I experienced some pretty bad bullying from that. the sad part is the bullying came from officials, so nobody cared or intervened. You don't forget being bullied by the police when you are too mentally ill to understand what you did wrong (nothing I did was illegal, just inappropriate). I wish I could let that event go but I can't. Cops are supposed to protect people who can't protect themselves. To this day I struggle with a hatred of the police. Fucking painful situation. I really needed to be segregated from society.
What were some of you specific problems? How did the police handle it, and did they know you had problems?

...If not too personal...
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