What atheists think, and why (in re: GEEPERS)

[GEEPERS]

Originally Posted by J Cubed

Sounds like church.

it's the atheism version of church. I can heard the amens. A nonsense thread designed so that the OP could take a dig at me. yawn

[SmartAlecCat]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

A nonsense thread designed so that the OP could take a dig at me.

I realize it was some sort of dig, but curious about your reaction to the views expressed here. Do they match your expectations? Did you see anything here you didn't expect to?

[iiandyiiii]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

it's the atheism version of church. I can heard the amens. A nonsense thread designed so that the OP could take a dig at me. yawn

Some folks are honestly trying to engage you. Isn't it possible that some of us atheists really are trying to understand your thinking? And yes, correct what we see as misconceptions/misunderstandings on your part about some of our beliefs and arguments?

[Lobohan]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

it's the atheism version of church. I can heard the amens. A nonsense thread designed so that the OP could take a dig at me. yawn

This isn't an attack. This website is designed to fight ignorance, and you are profoundly ignorant on several topics. This doesn't mean you're stupid, it means you have information that is incorrect and you're sticking to it.

This thread was an attempt to show you that your views of what atheism is are wrong.

[GEEPERS]

Originally Posted by Lobohan

This isn't an attack. This website is designed to fight ignorance, and you are profoundly ignorant on several topics. This doesn't mean you're stupid, it means you have information that is incorrect and you're sticking to it.

This thread was an attempt to show you that your views of what atheism is are wrong.

Anyone noticing a pattern here? It doesn't matter what I say, the atheist's immediate response is to disagree with me. So I say it's an attack, and oh of course, it's not! They are merely educating me out of the goodness of their own hearts. LOL.

I may not be an expert in many things, but dang, surely I can be right on something just once. Cmon at least admit "sauteed in sarcasm" was kinda creative.

And for the record, no one has posted anything here that I haven't heard a dozen or more times already. And I still think it's BS. The OP obviously wants me to engage here for mere amusement, but keep me on a short leash. Not playing that game.

[Trinopus]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Anyone noticing a pattern here? It doesn't matter what I say, the atheist's immediate response is to disagree with me. . . .

Um... Hello? Have you agreed with anything anyone else has said here?

Obviously, atheists are going to disagree with someone of pronounced religious faith. The thread is "What atheists think." Atheists disagree with the religious.

"What's two plus two, and don't insult me with any of that 'four' guff."

[pohjonen]

Starting with the obvious question: "Why are you an atheist?"
I find the idea of a god to be implausible and always have.

"People across all kinds of cultures and throughout histories have religions, and many of them are pretty similar. Doesn't that suggest they're on to something?"
No. It only suggests that people need to believe there's more to themselves than there is.

"Did something happen to you to make you an atheist?"
No.

"Are you angry at god?"
No. That would be like being angry at the Easter Bunny.

"Do you hate religion?"
No. But I often find it annoying.

"Do you think religion is evil?"
I think sometimes it can be.

"Do you think religious people are stupid?"
No. I think they are self deluded to make themselves feel better.

"Do you think religion should be stamped out or banned?"
I don't think it CAN be stamped out or banned. But I think sometimes it does more harm than good.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

The OP obviously wants me to engage here for mere amusement

So far I've found nothing amusing about engaging in discussion with you, so I didn't expect to be amused here. What I would like is for you to learn something about atheists because everything I have ever seen you post about them has been spectacularly wrong. So I thought you might be interested in learning something that might lead to a better starting point for future discussions. It's disappointing that you're not interested in making an effort, but I admit I'm not totally surprised. It's also disappointing that you've heard atheists make these points before - that they don't hate religion, don't hate religious people, and so forth - and it's made no impression and hasn't stopped you from saying the kinds of derogatory things you say. I might be interested to hear how you reconcile your comments about atheists with the opinions they've expressed here.

[PBear42]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Anyone noticing a pattern here? It doesn't matter what I say, the atheist's immediate response is to disagree with me. So I say it's an attack, and oh of course, it's not! They are merely educating me out of the goodness of their own hearts. LOL.

I may not be an expert in many things, but dang, surely I can be right on something just once. Cmon at least admit "sauteed in sarcasm" was kinda creative.

And for the record, no one has posted anything here that I haven't heard a dozen or more times already. And I still think it's BS. The OP obviously wants me to engage here for mere amusement, but keep me on a short leash. Not playing that game.

You don't know me, as I haven't posted in any of the recent threads. FWIW, I'm an atheist who mostly posts in religion threads (to the extent I do) to argue for tolerance of the religious point of view. I have serious problems, for example, with Dawkins. So, although you don't know me, I will say that you've misunderstood this thread. It's not an attack. It's a defense. You claim the opinions expressed are BS. What does that mean? That they're wrong or that they're dishonest? If the former, no matter (not the subject of this thread). If the latter, you're way off base. Your attacking a cartoon verson of atheism is just as invalid as atheists attacking a cartoon verson of theism. To whom do you think you are speaking?

[Sudden Kestrel]

Originally Posted by Sudden Kestrel

From GEEPERS' comments as listed in the OP, I'd say he makes a lot of assumptions about atheists in general that are based on very limited interactions with actual atheists. Just based on his assertion that "atheists" all do or think the same way, I doubt he'll be open to discussion.

I hate to say "I told you so," but...

[tomndebb]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

I may not be an expert in many things, but dang, surely I can be right on something just once.

That might be possible, but you do not seem to have posted it on this forum. Your claims about religion and the bible tend to be wrong. Your claims about the motivations of anyone who does not share your personal beliefs tend to always be wrong. And now you are demonstrating an unhealthy martyr complex, specifically:

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

And for the record, no one has posted anything here that I haven't heard a dozen or more times already. And I still think it's BS. The OP obviously wants me to engage here for mere amusement, but keep me on a short leash. Not playing that game.

So, you have heard every one of these statements regarding why people do not believe in a god, and you simply choose to refuse to believe them? You are setting yourself up to judge not only the quality of their beliefs but their honesty in expressing them?
Given your own rather dismal record in terms of knowledge and understanding, I am not surprised at this reaction.

I have found, over the years, that fundy attitudes, (whether of believers or non-believers), have made discussions between less rigid believers and non-believers nearly impossible on this board, but it is pretty much the definition of fundies to reject understanding for smugness. It is just unfortunate that such rigid smugness has made discussions of belief less interesting on this board.

[Mellontikos]

Hmm, not an Atheist here, although I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. I am Christian, but only barely, in the sense that I believe in Jesus and what he promises.

I'm not sure who or what he is. He could be extraterrestrial influence for all I know. He could be a myth. I guess I won't really know until my life is over in this planet (Even then maybe I still won't if death simply is oblivion).

I am positive though that the Bible does not teach anything about eternal torture. I speak Greek and have spent a while reading the Septuagint, and the Textus Receptus, and there are some horrible mistranslations and misunderstandings of the cultures back then. It's mostly thanks to the Catholic Church that the concept of eternal torture even exists today. It's not what the original followers of Christ believed.

[Knorf]

Originally Posted by Marley23

Starting with the obvious question: "Why are you an atheist?"

Because I came to the conclusion that it is more overwhelmingly more likely that there is no god than that there is. The Bible, in the most literal sense, is simply incredible (that is, unbelievable). No other religious documents are more credible.

"People across all kinds of cultures and throughout histories have religions, and many of them are pretty similar. Doesn't that suggest they're on to something?"

Syphilis is as wide-spread as superstition, but that doesn't make it desirable. Science provides answers. Superstition spreads fear. Argumentum ad populum holds no water with me.

"Did something happen to you to make you an atheist?"

Not any one thing, no. It was a gradual process of discovery and awareness.

"Are you angry at god?"

Since I do not believe there is a god, there is nothing to be angry about. If there was a god, I suppose it would have some explaining to do (e.g. "I apologize for the inconvenience") but I'm not holding my breath.

"Do you hate religion?"

Not especially. Although I wish more people would be honest about the endless abhorrent actions that have inevitably been taken in the name of "god".

"Do you think religion is evil?"

Hate? No. I believe religion is misguided and ultimately destructive, but sadly it is all to common a component of human existence. It can lead to good things, but not reliably enough.

"Do you think religious people are stupid?"

Not innately, no. I do think they are misguided, but clearly some very intelligent people are religious.

"Do you think religion should be stamped out or banned?"

Of course not! I do hope religion fades away into irrelevance, but that must occur as a natural process of societal development/human evolution.

Separation of church and state, however, is a vital concept to any notion of freedom or liberty. As is freedom of (and from) religion.

I'm an atheist because I do not believe there is a god, not because I desire to not believe in one.

[Gukumatz]

Originally Posted by Marley23

Starting with the obvious question: "Why are you an atheist?"

It's the logical default position, even for Christians as regards other deities. I have simply never been confronted by compelling evidence or experiences sufficient to alter that position.

Originally Posted by Marley23

"People across all kinds of cultures and throughout histories have religions, and many of them are pretty similar. Doesn't that suggest they're on to something?"

No, that logic is inherently fallacious. [See "argumentum ad populum"] As such, it should be rejected on that grounds.

Originally Posted by Marley23

"Did something happen to you to make you an atheist?"

No. I was raised in a culturally Protestant area and have been both baptised and confirmed, but I never had any form of faith. I left the Norwegian State Church (in which most Norwegians are registered, almost by default) when I turned 16 as a political statement because they receive tax funding proportional to their membership size, but I have no quarrel with the Church, its' clergy or the people who belong to it. I've never had a personally negative experience with Christianity or its' adherents. (Though many intellectual ones.)

Originally Posted by Marley23

"Are you angry at god?"

No. Nor am I resentful, embarrassed, ashamed or otherwise emotionally engaged in the subject.

Originally Posted by Marley23

"Do you hate religion?"

Not on a personal level, no.

Originally Posted by Marley23

"Do you think religion is evil?"

Religion - the organized, codified and incorporated structure of faith - is a system of control and conformity. As such it is inherently invested in its' own continuation and that makes it dangerous, but not necessarily evil. Evil can be carried out in the name and concept of religion, but that does not make religion evil.

Originally Posted by Marley23

"Do you think religious people are stupid?"

I don't think they apply intellectual rigor to the subject of religion or the validity of their faith, but I don't think this carries over to any other aspect of their life. I have no qualms about working for, with or employing religious people in important positions or for that matter sitting in government. Norway is actually a bit special about this - our current prime minister is a declared atheist; the last one was a priest.

Originally Posted by Marley23

"Do you think religion should be stamped out or banned?"

I think it should be allowed to die out from natural causes. There are no authorities I would trust with the power to actually stamp out or ban religion.

[GEEPERS]

Originally Posted by tomndebb

That might be possible, but you do not seem to have posted it on this forum. Your claims about religion and the bible tend to be wrong. Your claims about the motivations of anyone who does not share your personal beliefs tend to always be wrong. And now you are demonstrating an unhealthy martyr complex, specifically:
So, you have heard every one of these statements regarding why people do not believe in a god, and you simply choose to refuse to believe them? You are setting yourself up to judge not only the quality of their beliefs but their honesty in expressing them?
Given your own rather dismal record in terms of knowledge and understanding, I am not surprised at this reaction.

I have found, over the years, that fundy attitudes, (whether of believers or non-believers), have made discussions between less rigid believers and non-believers nearly impossible on this board, but it is pretty much the definition of fundies to reject understanding for smugness. It is just unfortunate that such rigid smugness has made discussions of belief less interesting on this board.

I'm entitled to my own opinion, and it remains extremely low of atheists. The rude arrogant treatment I have received on this board has done nothing to persuade me otherwise.

Of course, you could easily prove me wrong by providing one example where an atheist agrees with a Christian. And I'm not talking about a semi-Christian agreeing with atheist statements. I'm talking about an atheist admitting that a Christian has made a valid point in favor of Christian evidence.

You could start by not refering to Christians as "fundies".

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

I'm entitled to my own opinion, and it remains extremely low of atheists. The rude arrogant treatment I have received on this board has done nothing to persuade me otherwise.

Actually you've been treated pretty politely. And people aren't being "arrogant"; you are simply that badly wrong.

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

I'm talking about an atheist admitting that a Christian has made a valid point in favor of Christian evidence.

In all of human history, no Christian has ever done that. There is no "valid evidence" for Christianity for Christians to show atheists, and there never will be because Christianity is complete nonsense. It's not the fault of atheists that Christians believe in a pure fantasy.

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

Christianity is complete nonsense. It's not the fault of atheists that Christians believe in a pure fantasy.

Don't be so goddamned polite to him, DT. He doesn't like the tone he's caught here, so maybe you should stop sugar-coating how you feel.

[Jack Batty]

Interesting phenomenon.

In GEEPERS, we are seeing a personification of the religious right in America. The very existence of atheists is considered an attack on Christianity, that causes them to scream from the rafters that 80% of the country is being persecuted by the other 20%.

[madmonk28]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

.......The rude arrogant treatment I have received on this board has done nothing to persuade me otherwise......

You accuse the atheists in this thread of being arrogant, but you have explicitly stated that you have heard their arguments for why they are atheists before, but you simply refuse to believe that these are the real reasons. Can't you see that your position is arrogant? If you don't think it is arrogant, can you explain why you think it is not?

For the record, I'm an atheist. I never believed in a god. My family didn't participate in any religion and I don't remember ever hearing talk about religion in my house, so I'm not angry at god or trying to upset my parents.

I simply don't believe in god and to be honest, I don't think about it all that much, except when I'm on this board, where it comes up a lot.

Do you flat out not believe me?

[gamerunknown]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

Do you flat out not believe me?

Presumably you're a mad monk undergoing an atheistic hallucination.

[razncain]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

I'm entitled to my own opinion, and it remains extremely low of atheists. The rude arrogant treatment I have received on this board has done nothing to persuade me otherwise.

Please familiarize yourself 5 and 7! Hell, probably better make it all seven. And admit it already, you've got nothing in the form of valid evidence for Christianity, and that's why you need faith to support it.

[steronz]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Of course, you could easily prove me wrong by providing one example where an atheist agrees with a Christian. And I'm not talking about a semi-Christian agreeing with atheist statements. I'm talking about an atheist admitting that a Christian has made a valid point in favor of Christian evidence.

If you bothered to read my post, you'd have noticed that I'm an atheist who's married to a practicing Christian. We go to church together. Do you think I don't agree with my wife on anything?

Can I count as your one example?

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by steronz

If you bothered to read my post, you'd have noticed that I'm an atheist who's married to a practicing Christian. We go to church together. Do you think I don't agree with my wife on anything?

Presumably that makes her a "semi-Christian agreeing with atheist statements" according to GEEPERS. "Atheist statements" in GEEPERS-speak being anything that does not totally conform to GEEPERS's particular version of Christianity.

[Meatros]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

it's the atheism version of church. I can heard the amens. A nonsense thread designed so that the OP could take a dig at me. yawn

I feel like Marley's intentions couldn't be more obvious, yet you completely missed his point.

[steronz]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

Presumably that makes her a "semi-Christian agreeing with atheist statements" according to GEEPERS. "Atheist statements" in GEEPERS-speak being anything that does not totally conform to GEEPERS's particular version of Christianity.

True, neither my wife nor I are Scottish.

[Meatros]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

I'm entitled to my own opinion, and it remains extremely low of atheists. The rude arrogant treatment I have received on this board has done nothing to persuade me otherwise.

Of course, you could easily prove me wrong by providing one example where an atheist agrees with a Christian. And I'm not talking about a semi-Christian agreeing with atheist statements. I'm talking about an atheist admitting that a Christian has made a valid point in favor of Christian evidence.

You could start by not refering to Christians as "fundies".

Do you feel as though you've been perfectly fair and not rude at all towards atheists?

I've agreed with many Christians. I'll even go a step further and say that I find many arguments for God rational, if you accept their premises (I often don't). I find some Christians (and theists in general) to be intelligent and very reaonable.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Of course, you could easily prove me wrong by providing one example where an atheist agrees with a Christian.

Again, none of this is about Christianity in particular. Atheists don't believe in any gods, they don't have some special grudge against Jesus. Most of them are irreligious, but that doesn't make them specifically anti-Christian. Do you not think "religion isn't evil," "there is some true stuff in the Bible," and "religion shouldn't be suppressed" are points where atheists and religious people can agree? I realize it's not an overwhelming endorsement of religion, but it's not nothing.

I'm talking about an atheist admitting that a Christian has made a valid point in favor of Christian evidence.

You've never made one as far as I can tell. In particular you keep jumping from "some stuff in the Bible happened" to "the Bible is all true and the evidence for it is as good as the evidence for anything else in history." The first point is true, and the second is absurd. If you were taking positions that were better supported by science and history - like acknowledging evolution - you would have less of a problem getting atheists to agree with you. You're not going to get them to agree with you about Biblical literalism (that should've been obvious from the beginning) and you won't get them to agree with you

You could start by not refering to Christians as "fundies".

He was talking about fundamentalist Christians.

[cosmosdan]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

I'm entitled to my own opinion, and it remains extremely low of atheists. The rude arrogant treatment I have received on this board has done nothing to persuade me otherwise.

I haven't read the threads you've been involved in, however, if you're claiming that the people explaining their thoughts and feelings in the thread are being less than honest that strikes me as being rather rude and arrogant.

Of course, you could easily prove me wrong by providing one example where an atheist agrees with a Christian. And I'm not talking about a semi-Christian agreeing with atheist statements. I'm talking about an atheist admitting that a Christian has made a valid point in favor of Christian evidence.

I'm not sure what you're asking for when you say Christian evidence. I certainly agree with a lot of Christians about many of the principles of living that JC taught, and his teachings of our undeniable connection to each other. I agree that the truth has the power to free us, ifwe are willing and able to accpet it. Being a former Christian I believe in the value of love and truth in our lives as individuals and in our progress as a species.

If you're talking about evidence for the details of Christianity, that Jesus actually lived and taught, died and and back to life, that's another matter. It's not rude of arrogant to honestly disagree over evidence that even scholars can't agree on.

I'm no expert, but it appears to me that there is little solid evidence to support Christian doctrine and traditional beliefs , in fact, if anything, it is Christians who tend to reject pretty solid widely recognized evidence , for the sake of tradition.

That's not being arrogant or an attack, but an honest appraisal based on my personal readings on the subject. I'm happy to look at any new evidence that comes along.

[GEEPERS]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

Actually you've been treated pretty politely. And people aren't being "arrogant"; you are simply that badly wrong.

In all of human history, no Christian has ever done that. There is no "valid evidence" for Christianity for Christians to show atheists, and there never will be because Christianity is complete nonsense. It's not the fault of atheists that Christians believe in a pure fantasy.

Finally, an honest reply. THen please (addressing atheists in general) stop creating threads and demanding that Christians provide evidence for our deity since you'll NEVER accept anything we say anyways. That doesn't make me stupid or wrong 100% of the time. That just means atheists stubbornly refuse to ever consider any pro-Christian evidence much like the way my amazing supernatural natural experiences that I shared was tossed immediately out the window. Insulting to say the least.

Funny how this thread was dying on the vine until I spoke up. This is the typical feeding frenzy.

[Marley23]

What else do you want atheists (anyone who doesn't take the Bible literally) to agree with you about? That irreducible complexity is a good argument against evolution? It isn't. That's not because you're a Christian- it's because it's a bad argument that was discarded a long time ago. It simply isn't true that there had to be a guiding hand to evolution. Your arguments for the Bible haven't been strong either. They've mostly been bait and switches: you say lots of Biblical stuff has been proven, people poke holes in it, and you begin making strawman arguments and railing against the unreasonableness of atheists. The problem is that you're wrong, not that you're a Christian. We've had arguments like this with religious Jews and other people, too.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Finally, an honest reply. THen please (addressing atheists in general) stop creating threads and demanding that Christians provide evidence for our deity since you'll NEVER accept anything we say anyways. That doesn't make me stupid or wrong 100% of the time. That just means atheists stubbornly refuse to ever consider any pro-Christian evidence much like the way my amazing supernatural natural experiences that I shared was tossed immediately out the window. Insulting to say the least.

Funny how this thread was dying on the vine until I spoke up. This is the typical feeding frenzy.

The thread asking for evidence from those(NOT just Christians) who already claim to have such evidence was a direct response to your claim that you had such evidence.
Once again-YOU made the claim that caused the thread to happen in the first place. If you don't like people to ask you to back up your claims, well...tough.

[Czarcasm]

GEEPERS, if you want us to accept your word as evidence that your deity exists, then would you accept the word of those of other religions as evidence that their deity exists?

[FinnAgain]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Finally, an honest reply.

Sure the rest of us are trying to trick you. Nefariously. Do you see anything off about coming into a thread covering dozens of different atheists all offering up their own words, and then claiming that because we don't match your bigoted claims about atheists then we must be lying? That behavior is to regular ol' cognitive dissonance as atom bombs are to sparklers. I suspect that those who ask you to provide proof are simply pointing out to you that you can't and that everything you can use as 'proof' is the exact same set of things which are used to support competing religions which you reject out of hand even while using their supposed 'similarities' to try to argue for why only your religion is true. Religion is supported on faith not proof, and attempting to justify yourself with proof instead of relying on faith is a losing game.

Your focus, however, is on imaginary persecution. As such you don't see this as pointing out the inherent epistemological limits of absolutely all religious claims. No, you fantasize that this is some sort of assault on Christianity. "Give everybody in the room a ham sandwich." "What?? I"m in a room. I'll have you know that I not only hate ham sandwiches, I'm also a Christian. Why are you so dedicated to attacking Christianity?!?"

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

That doesn't make me stupid or wrong 100% of the time.

Of course no. You are wrong pretty much 100% of the time not because of who what of how you worship. You're wrong roughly 100% of the time because the positions and arguments you chose to advance are, without exception, awful in every intellectual respect. As for what putting forward those positions and ignoring all corrections evinces about you personally? This is the wrong forum to discuss it. But yah, you're wrong pretty much all the time but that has nothing to do with you being a christian.

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

my amazing supernatural natural experiences

Band na... nevermind.
Yet again. There are 'supernatural' experiences for every religious faith in the world. As I've asked you several times before, would you convert to Voudoun? How about worship the Olypians, or Asgardians? Is Mohammed truly the last prophet whose word stands above all other prophets? Why or why not?

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Funny how this thread was dying on the vine until I spoke up. This is the typical feeding frenzy.

Hey, all I did was come to an established website whose very mission statement is about fighting ignorance. Then I stridently took an erroneous position, refused to admit error even when pointed out my mistakes repeatedly, claimed that being refuted was persecution, voiced numerous bigoted absurdities about 'atheists', claimed that showing how I'm wrong and my argument is awful is really somehow "arrogant". And on yeah then I claimed that people on this ignorance-fighting website who were fighting my ignorance are like, I dunno, but probably angry hungry sharks. Yeah... damned atheists.

[tomndebb]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

I'm entitled to my own opinion, and it remains extremely low of atheists. The rude arrogant treatment I have received on this board has done nothing to persuade me otherwise.

Of course, you could easily prove me wrong by providing one example where an atheist agrees with a Christian. And I'm not talking about a semi-Christian agreeing with atheist statements. I'm talking about an atheist admitting that a Christian has made a valid point in favor of Christian evidence.

You could start by not refering to Christians as "fundies".

So, a limited number of people who are atheist on a specific message board were "rude" to you when you made demonstrably factually wrong comments regarding evolution (in a rather "rude" manner, yourself), and you use that to rationalize your "low opinion" of all atheists, everywhere. If that is how you live your life. . . . ::: shrug :::

Then you decide to draw a ring around yourself and claim that anyone who does not share your exact personal views of religion, (views that appear to be based on a subset of Christianity that was created in the nineteenth century), is only a "semi-Christian" whose views you may discount at will.

I am not so sure that anyone is "entitled" to an opinion, it is simply that there is no way to remove a person's opinion, so from that perspective, you get to continue to hold your opinions. This is pretty much what I see among all fundies--theist, atheist, agnostic, or any other clan.

I will note, however, that you have totally misread my comment on fundies. I have never referred to "Christians" as fundies. Fundamentalism was a specific movement within American, (and a touch of British), Protestant Christianity with a specific perspective. It is not one with which I agree, but I respect many of those who hold those views. One tenet of that belief was a rather narrow view of the creation and interpretation of scripture. From that phenomenon, the word Fundamentalist expanded in meaning to indicate anyone whose beliefs were guided by a rather rigid acceptance of their scriptures, thus we now also speak of Fundamentalist Islam. However, within those groups of people are those who tend to use their narrow beliefs solely as an excuse to condemn other people. That is the way that the word fundy developed as a slang term from, but not limited to, Fundamentalist religious people. I explicitly noted that it was the fundies among both believers and non-believers who had made discussions on this board less interesting. That you would read that sentence and draw the rather improbable conclusion that I used the word "fundy" as a synonym for "Christian" indicates that you are simply looking for excuses to condemn other people, and are not actually interested in discussing the issues or expanding your understanding. (Sort of like the limited group of fundy atheists who also post here.)

If you wish to follow the Great Commission, you might want to tone down the hostility, but I suspect that you are more interested in demonstrating to yourself that your beliefs are superior than you are in actually learning anything or coming to understand the way that others understand the world.

[tomndebb]

Originally Posted by Marley23

He was talking about fundamentalist Christians.

Hmmmm. You seem to have missed my point, as well.

[tomndebb]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Finally, an honest reply. THen please (addressing atheists in general) stop creating threads and demanding that Christians provide evidence for our deity since you'll NEVER accept anything we say anyways. That doesn't make me stupid or wrong 100% of the time. That just means atheists stubbornly refuse to ever consider any pro-Christian evidence much like the way my amazing supernatural natural experiences that I shared was tossed immediately out the window. Insulting to say the least.

Funny how this thread was dying on the vine until I spoke up. This is the typical feeding frenzy.

Well, the thread was hardly dying, but certainly, when you showed up to make more absurd comments and accusations, it brought several posters back.

I am also amused that you can only agree that another poster has been "honest" when he happens to agree with your mischaracterization of how he is "supposed" to feel.
That you believe that the others who have expressed different sentiments are not honest demonstrates your own fundy nature, who is only happy when condemning people.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by Marley23

He was talking about fundamentalist Christians.

I think he was talking about extremists(aka Fundies) on any and all sides of the debate.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

I'm entitled to my own opinion, and it remains extremely low of atheists. The rude arrogant treatment I have received on this board has done nothing to persuade me otherwise.

Of course, you could easily prove me wrong by providing one example where an atheist agrees with a Christian. And I'm not talking about a semi-Christian agreeing with atheist statements. I'm talking about an atheist admitting that a Christian has made a valid point in favor of Christian evidence.

You could start by not refering to Christians as "fundies".

Almost all atheists here accept that there was a historical Jesus. Does that count? If you mean only claims about divinity, are Jews and Hindus equally evil in your book?
BTW, truth is truth. Throwing out ten random claims doesn't mean that we should accept one of them out of fairness. Each has to be considered in its own merits. So far, you have proven unable to provide evidence for even one of your claims. That is not our fault, that is your fault.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by tomndebb

Hmmmm. You seem to have missed my point, as well.

I did explain it too briefly: you were talking about fundamentalists on all sides of the debates including atheists, but it seems GEEPERS concluded that when you said "fundies," you meant all Christians rather than the specific group of people who long ago started calling themselves fundamentalists.

Originally Posted by tomndebb

I have found, over the years, that fundy attitudes, (whether of believers or non-believers), have made discussions between less rigid believers and non-believers nearly impossible on this board, but it is pretty much the definition of fundies to reject understanding for smugness.

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

You could start by not refering to Christians as "fundies".

I'm not sure how you made this leap, GEEPERS. It doesn't make sense and it's a very bad reading of tomndebb's post.

[Lobohan]

Originally Posted by Marley23

I did explain it too briefly: you were talking about fundamentalists on all sides of the debates including atheists, but it seems GEEPERS concluded that when you said "fundies," you meant all Christians rather than the specific group of people who long ago started calling themselves fundamentalists.




I'm not sure how you made this leap, GEEPERS. It doesn't make sense and it's a very bad reading of tomndebb's post.

He's thinking that the only true Christians are "fundies". So calling them by that name is mean.

Everyone else is a half-Christian, or atheist, I assume.

[GEEPERS]

Originally Posted by FinnAgain

Sure the rest of us are trying to trick you. Nefariously. Do you see anything off about coming into a thread covering dozens of different atheists all offering up their own words, and then claiming that because we don't match your bigoted claims about atheists then we must be lying? That behavior is to regular ol' cognitive dissonance as atom bombs are to sparklers. I suspect that those who ask you to provide proof are simply pointing out to you that you can't and that everything you can use as 'proof' is the exact same set of things which are used to support competing religions which you reject out of hand even while using their supposed 'similarities' to try to argue for why only your religion is true. Religion is supported on faith not proof, and attempting to justify yourself with proof instead of relying on faith is a losing game.

Your focus, however, is on imaginary persecution. As such you don't see this as pointing out the inherent epistemological limits of absolutely all religious claims. No, you fantasize that this is some sort of assault on Christianity. "Give everybody in the room a ham sandwich." "What?? I"m in a room. I'll have you know that I not only hate ham sandwiches, I'm also a Christian. Why are you so dedicated to attacking Christianity?!?"



Of course no. You are wrong pretty much 100% of the time not because of who what of how you worship. You're wrong roughly 100% of the time because the positions and arguments you chose to advance are, without exception, awful in every intellectual respect. As for what putting forward those positions and ignoring all corrections evinces about you personally? This is the wrong forum to discuss it. But yah, you're wrong pretty much all the time but that has nothing to do with you being a christian.



Band na... nevermind.
Yet again. There are 'supernatural' experiences for every religious faith in the world. As I've asked you several times before, would you convert to Voudoun? How about worship the Olypians, or Asgardians? Is Mohammed truly the last prophet whose word stands above all other prophets? Why or why not?



Hey, all I did was come to an established website whose very mission statement is about fighting ignorance. Then I stridently took an erroneous position, refused to admit error even when pointed out my mistakes repeatedly, claimed that being refuted was persecution, voiced numerous bigoted absurdities about 'atheists', claimed that showing how I'm wrong and my argument is awful is really somehow "arrogant". And on yeah then I claimed that people on this ignorance-fighting website who were fighting my ignorance are like, I dunno, but probably angry hungry sharks. Yeah... damned atheists.

Ahh and the arrogance continues! And for the record, I have never once seen an -atheist admit to being wrong, or even apologize (ex. OP). End result = you're not worth my time.

[Lobohan]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Ahh and the arrogance continues! And for the record, I have never once seen an -atheist admit to being wrong, or even apologize (ex. OP). End result = you're not worth my time.

I'm sorry you're so upset. I don't think people realized how you would take people's corrections as personal attacks.

I used to think that the immaculate conception referred to Jesus. But I learned years later that it referred to Mary. So I was wrong.

Did I just blow your mind?

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Ahh and the arrogance continues! And for the record, I have never once seen an -atheist admit to being wrong, or even apologize (ex. OP). End result = you're not worth my time.

If I might ask, what Christian sect do you belong to?

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

And for the record, I have never once seen an -atheist admit to being wrong

With regard to evolution and history, atheists - and religious people of all types who pay attention to science and facts - are not wrong. What do they have to admit?

[Meatros]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Ahh and the arrogance continues! And for the record, I have never once seen an -atheist admit to being wrong, or even apologize (ex. OP). End result = you're not worth my time.

I've admitted being wrong many times. I've also apologized many times. Where can we witness you doing any of these things?

[iiandyiiii]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Ahh and the arrogance continues! And for the record, I have never once seen an -atheist admit to being wrong, or even apologize (ex. OP). End result = you're not worth my time.

Jeez, are you even able to engage someone on a one-on-one level (and you know I've PM'd you to try, to no avail!), without generalizing about a hugely diverse group of people? Atheists disagree with each other all the time, about science, politics, philosophy, and many other things. I've tried to engage you one-on-one, in these threads and in PM, but I'm shut down. If I ask you an honest question, or present my honest opinion, you just say "all atheists are arrogant" or something like that. Do you really think ALL atheists are out to get you? Might some of them actually be interested in learning how non-atheists think? Might some atheists actually have totally different opinions that you've generalized about all atheists?

[tomndebb]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

Ahh and the arrogance continues! And for the record, I have never once seen an -atheist admit to being wrong, or even apologize (ex. OP). End result = you're not worth my time.

I hope you practiced that in front of a mirror.

And for the record, I have never once seen a fundy admit to being wrong, or even apologize, you included.

And your mirror was right. You are not worth the time.

[Euphonious Polemic]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS
Ahh and the arrogance continues! And for the record, I have never once seen an -atheist admit to being wrong, or even apologize (ex. OP). End result = you're not worth my time.

Well, I was wrong when I thought that all Christians followed the words of Christ, particularly Matthew 5:39. Now I see that some Christians do not think that certain words of Christ are worthy.

And I apologize for that.

[TonySinclair]

For many (probably hundreds by now) more "why I am an atheist" short essays, as well as a very interesting atheist-oriented blog, see here:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

THen please (addressing atheists in general) stop creating threads and demanding that Christians provide evidence for our deity since you'll NEVER accept anything we say anyways.

People atheist and otherwise don't accept what you say because it's wrong. And atheists demand evidence because otherwise there's no reason to consider your god to be any more plausible or real than Santa Claus. And because they know you never will provide evidence, because you can't. Your religion like every other religion is just a baseless fantasy; there's no evidence for you to produce.

Originally Posted by GEEPERS

That just means atheists stubbornly refuse to ever consider any pro-Christian evidence much like the way my amazing supernatural natural experiences that I shared was tossed immediately out the window. Insulting to say the least.

Claiming demonic attack isn't evidence; there's no more evidence for demons than there is for gods. And the totally unsupported claims of some random guy on the internet aren't evidence either. And that's not just my own opinion, it's yours; you'd never accept the claims of an Odin worshiper that they met a Valkyrie as evidence of Odin.