Do front-loading washers clean as well as top-loaders?

[Patty O'Furniture]

Originally Posted by Green Cymbeline

Although I am still a bit skeptical... I want my clothes to be fully submerged and immersed in water!

I assume you never take showers, always baths?

[No umlaut for U]

I would never go back to a top loader. I couldn't believe how clean the first load of towels I did in the front loader was, and how grey the expelled water was. (To be fair, the top loader had had a declining spin cycle.) To use up the stock of detergent we had (not recommended) I used 5 ml/per load. I still have nearly a full bottle!
It doesn't seem like my colors run the way they used to, and I can actually do my lingerie in the machine rather than by hand. I think the longer cycle inconvenience is more than overcome by the slightly larger capacity. I just had to plan a little better.

[Louize]

NO - Front Loaders DO NOT clean well or work well. DO NOT BUY ONE! Its a fad and will fizzle out! We have had a pair for 3 years.http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...es/smack.gifWe too bought into the "Green" explanation and are always ready to save a buck on utilities. Of course Consumer reports would be in favor- the Green explanation is a convincing one! And enthusiastic NEW owners REALLY BELIEVE the front loader cleans better, they have to - they just spent big bucks on such products! I too was in denial for a while! Are new owners going to report to friends that they made a BIG mistake, rarely, because pride is a powerful thing. Think about it. Common sense tells us, more water means more clean! Soaking clothing, towels, sheets etc deeply immersed in hot water is condusive to the best cleaning. When consumers are considering buying a front loader, most everyone's first thought is- HOW can a front loader with a small amount of water clean as well compared to a top loader? Unbelievable right?http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...es/dubious.gif Well your first thoughts are correct, duh!http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...lies/smack.gif Do you really think most store owners or Salesmen in a store are going to tell you what they "might" know as the truth? No, the store owner has to move his inventory and the salesman has to make a commission!

1) Front loader washers do not spin well. Think about it - spinning of a top loader centered ON TOP of gravity's pull as compared to the spinning of a front loader. The front loader is constantly working against gravity. The whole drum is literally hanging from its mounts while it spins in opposition to gravity - which we have learned a) accounts for the constant re-occuring imbalance during large loads like towels or jeans. b) Clothes still being heavy and wet at the end of the cycle rather than damp as they should be.

2) They use too little water for effective cleaning. The clothes often still smell dirty and so we literally must wash a lot of loads twice! Its the only way to compensate! So I do it!

3) They do not drain well, again its the fact that the drum is hanging instead of centered on top of gravity. This factor causes leaves sitting water at the bottom of the drum which stagnates and smells, molds etc, after use and we have to always leave the front loader washer's door open so this un drained water can dry up. This causes the wide open washer door to stick out in the pathway to the garage- always in the way of people traffic!

The whole green thing sounds good in theory! Saving on water and power sounds good too. But front loader washers are just not for home use. The BIG front loading washers in laundry mats and hospitals and hotels are "industrial" for sanitation purposes using heavy chemicals and I doubt they use less water.

Also manufactures of washers/dryers need to revitalize their business and create "new improved products" with the popular sell tactic label of "high-tech" which is popular for lots of NEW products today. Most everyone wants to sport "the new improved high tech versions of everything", again a pride thing. Unfortunately many of us fall into these traps which manufactures and advertisers devise for we the trusting consumers to fall in and they smile all the way to the bank!

Somethings simply cannot be improved upon since our ancestors - like the spoon AND needless to say, using of lots of water to effectively clean our clothing and textile products adequately! [/b]As in the long standing use of top loading washing machines! I am looking forward to my next new washer- a good reliable deep top loading washer with lots of settings!THE SMART BUY - A TOP LOADING WASHER!

[Candyman74]

Originally Posted by Louize

NO - Front Loaders DO NOT clean well or work well. DO NOT BUY ONE! Its a fad and will fizzle out! We have had a pair for 3 years.http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...es/smack.gifWe too bought into the "Green" explanation and are always ready to save a buck on utilities. Of course Consumer reports would be in favor- the Green explanation is a convincing one! And enthusiastic NEW owners REALLY BELIEVE the front loader cleans better, they have to - they just spent big bucks on such products! I too was in denial for a while! Are new owners going to report to friends that they made a BIG mistake, rarely, because pride is a powerful thing. Think about it. Common sense tells us, more water means more clean! Soaking clothing, towels, sheets etc deeply immersed in hot water is condusive to the best cleaning. When consumers are considering buying a front loader, most everyone's first thought is- HOW can a front loader with a small amount of water clean as well compared to a top loader? Unbelievable right?http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...es/dubious.gif Well your first thoughts are correct, duh!http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...lies/smack.gif Do you really think most store owners or Salesmen in a store are going to tell you what they "might" know as the truth? No, the store owner has to move his inventory and the salesman has to make a commission!

1) Front loader washers do not spin well. Think about it - spinning of a top loader centered ON TOP of gravity's pull as compared to the spinning of a front loader. The front loader is constantly working against gravity. The whole drum is literally hanging from its mounts while it spins in opposition to gravity - which we have learned a) accounts for the constant re-occuring imbalance during large loads like towels or jeans. b) Clothes still being heavy and wet at the end of the cycle rather than damp as they should be.

2) They use too little water for effective cleaning. The clothes often still smell dirty and so we literally must wash a lot of loads twice! Its the only way to compensate! So I do it!

3) They do not drain well, again its the fact that the drum is hanging instead of centered on top of gravity. This factor causes leaves sitting water at the bottom of the drum which stagnates and smells, molds etc, after use and we have to always leave the front loader washer's door open so this un drained water can dry up. This causes the wide open washer door to stick out in the pathway to the garage- always in the way of people traffic!

The whole green thing sounds good in theory! Saving on water and power sounds good too. But front loader washers are just not for home use. The BIG front loading washers in laundry mats and hospitals and hotels are "industrial" for sanitation purposes using heavy chemicals and I doubt they use less water.

Also manufactures of washers/dryers need to revitalize their business and create "new improved products" with the popular sell tactic label of "high-tech" which is popular for lots of NEW products today. Most everyone wants to sport "the new improved high tech versions of everything", again a pride thing. Unfortunately many of us fall into these traps which manufactures and advertisers devise for we the trusting consumers to fall in and they smile all the way to the bank!

Somethings simply cannot be improved upon since our ancestors - like the spoon AND needless to say, using of lots of water to effectively clean our clothing and textile products adequately! [/b]As in the long standing use of top loading washing machines! I am looking forward to my next new washer- a good reliable deep top loading washer with lots of settings!THE SMART BUY - A TOP LOADING WASHER!

A fad? I don't think I've ever used a top loader. I certainly don't know of anyone with them. Washing machines have been front loaders all my life.

I don't think it's a "fad".

Also, I and everyone I know don't walk round in dirty smelly clothes.

I'd suggest dialling the hyperbole and CAPS back a bit. Clearly both work just fine. It's not that bug a deal; calm down.

[aceplace57]

The big capacity washers at Laundromats have always been front loaders (going back to the late 70's in my experience). I still go twice a year to wash my blankets and bedspreads.

Those huge capacity washers seem to do a great job on my blankets.

[naita]

Every washing machine sold in Norway for the last couple of decades is a front-loader, and no, we're not all walking around in dirty clothes or washing our clothes twice. Even my ancient washing machine, bound to be more than 40 years old, has a drum with a horizontal axis even though it loads from the top.

[Louize]

Originally Posted by Candyman74

A fad? I don't think I've ever used a top loader. I certainly don't know of anyone with them. Washing machines have been front loaders all my life.

I don't think it's a "fad".

Also, I and everyone I know don't walk round in dirty smelly clothes.

I'd suggest dialling the hyperbole and CAPS back a bit. Clearly both work just fine. It's not that bug a deal; calm down.

If you dont know anyone owning them or using them or have never used them yourself HOW do you know enough to be objective? Yes they are a FAD for home washers recently! People asked a litigimate question and have gotton a lit answer because I care about others who might buy these products for the home. To be fore-warned is to be fore-armed! Consumers looking for input before purchasing are wise.

[Candyman74]

Originally Posted by Louize

If you dont know anyone owning them or using them or have never used them yourself HOW do you know enough to be objective? Yes they are a FAD for home washers recently! People asked a litigimate question and have gotton a lit answer because I care about others who might buy these products for the home. To be fore-warned is to be fore-armed! Consumers looking for input before purchasing are wise.

I know I don't stink. I know that CAPS and over-excitement is not appropriate. And if it's a "FAD!!1!one" then it's a 30 year "FAD!!!!one!!11" which hardly qualifies as "recently" in my eyes.

It's just a washing machine. Calm down. Did a washing machine kick your puppy or something?

[aceplace57]

I plan to purchase a new top loader in the next year or so. I need to soak heavily soiled clothes in water with bleach. That's the only way to remove sweat stains from my t-shirts and underwear after working or hiking outdoors.

How do people wash diapers in a front loader? They have to be soaked in bleach to get the piss & poop stains out. We always soaked our kids diapers a full half hour before turning the cycle back on.

AFAIK you can't soak clothes in a front loader.

[TriPolar]

One big advantage of a front loader is that you can stack a dryer on top of it and use less floor space.

[kayT]

I am on the third front loader. First one was Kenmore and failed after less than three years; another black mark for Sears. Second one was Samsung and we left it in California for the person who bought our house. This one is also Samsung. I have never had mildew, never had a bad odor, and almost never remember to leave the door open when finished. My clothes are way cleaner than they were in a top loader and they dry in about half the time. I love the Samsung and would never dream of going back to the old tub full of dirty water sloshing around. Furthermore, things last longer as the washer isn't wearing them out with pointless "agitating". The front loader lifts your clothes from the water then drops them back in: much like washing by hand; much gentler. Besides, this machine plays a little tune for me when it's done. How cool is that?

[postcards]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

One big advantage of a front loader is that you can stack a dryer on top of it and use less floor space.

You can do that with top-loaders, too.

[Pai325]

Originally Posted by Louize

NO - Front Loaders DO NOT clean well or work well. DO NOT BUY ONE! Its a fad and will fizzle out!

You may or may not like them, but they're certainly not a fad. My mother had one when I was growing up, and I'm in my sixties.

[Candyman74]

Originally Posted by Pai325

You may or may not like them, but they're certainly not a fad. My mother had one when I was growing up, and I'm in my sixties.

I'm not that old (approaching 40) but they've been popular all my life. Certainly not a fad. Or, indeed, a "FAD!!!!!1".

[Eliahna]

I hate my front loader but I've been forced to begrudgingly admit it cleans better. I pulled my daughter's baby clothes out to give away and found many, many stains on them - even on the smallest items from the days when she was exclusively breastfed and therefore not spilling formula or food on herself. All were washed in my old top loader. My son's baby clothes have no stains whatsoever. Front loader.

I hate the increased washing time (a ludicrous 2.5 hours on the "quick cotton" setting), I hate being unable to add that one forgotten sock to the load, I hate when it unbalances or something and I have to wait 2 minutes for the door to unlock so I can rearrange the load (washing blankets or similar is a frustrating experience, especially when it repeatedly unbalances, @#$!%&), I hate that it frequently flicks baby socks into the lint catcher so they come out sodden and linty, I hate that everything comes out so creased that just putting things though the dryer isn't enough to "iron" them and I have to use the actual iron (like a common washerwoman!). If I wasn't forced to have a front loader by the layout of the laundry, I'd never have stopped using my faithful old top loader... but bah, crap, it's true. It does wash better.

[kayT]

I don't know what brand you have, Eliahna, but my Samsung does the quick wash in 43 minutes and that's with an extra rinse. I have not noticed the creasing but if it's that bad try turning the spin speed from high to medium. My machine doesn't "lock" the door once you stop the machine. It also lets you add things in for the first few minutes and also during spinning, by just putting the cycle on pause. And Samsung has a self balancing system; it slows the spin and sprays in some water to rebalance itself. Granted, this does make the load take longer than the 43 minutes but I never have to get in there and rebalance a load.

ETA sorry if I sound like a Samsung commercial!

[Eliahna]

Originally Posted by kayT

I don't know what brand you have, Eliahna, but my Samsung does the quick wash in 43 minutes and that's with an extra rinse. I have not noticed the creasing but if it's that bad try turning the spin speed from high to medium. My machine doesn't "lock" the door once you stop the machine. It also lets you add things in for the first few minutes and also during spinning, by just putting the cycle on pause. And Samsung has a self balancing system; it slows the spin and sprays in some water to rebalance itself. Granted, this does make the load take longer than the 43 minutes but I never have to get in there and rebalance a load.

ETA sorry if I sound like a Samsung commercial!

Mine's an LG. The quick wash (not quick cotton) for lightly soiled clothing is done in 30 minutes, or 36 if you want to spin enough water out so it won't take 5 hours to go through the dryer, but that still makes me grumble because the heavy duty cycle on the top loader takes about 45 minutes. I could spin at a lower RPM but the increased drying time probably takes longer than ironing, and definitely consumes more power.

My SO is from the UK and he claims front loaders (and everything else for that matter, but that's another story) are of better quality over there. He was shocked by how crappy a reasonably expensive front loader was over here compared to those he'd had in the UK.

Most recently we had a fault with our machine - fixed, rapidly and in our own home under warranty by LG's local service people, no real complaints there - but while we were trying to figure out the source and cause of the noise, we had to wait three or four times for that blessed door to unlock. Frustrating.

[Terry Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Louize

NO - Front Loaders DO NOT clean well or work well. DO NOT BUY ONE! Its a fad and will fizzle out! We have had a pair for 3 years.

I switched to a Samsung front loader (and matching dryer) well over 4 years ago. The only issue was that the light bulb in the dryer burned out once, and was easily replaced.

I do think that the washer takes longer than my old top loader, but it mostly makes up for that in added capacity.

It also does a much better job on things like pillows and comforters - in the top loader, they would just float on top of the water and not get cleaned.

Somethings simply cannot be improved upon since our ancestors

My grandmother refused to use anything except a tub, washboard and stick for all of her days. Me, I like the modern conveniences.

There are certainly awful front loaders out there. Just as there are awful top loaders. It is probably easier to make a bad front loader than a bad top loader because they're more complex. But that's no reason to dismiss the technology out of hand.

[Patty O'Furniture]

Originally Posted by Louize

<snipped>

There is a lot of misinformation in your post and I don't really feel like picking through all of it. Suffice it to say that professional/industrial machines are almost always front-loaders - especially the high capacity ones. That should tell you right there that the design is sound.

]The whole drum is literally hanging from its mounts while it spins in opposition to gravity

No it's not. It rides on wheels or rollers while the motor provides the turning force.

The clothes often still smell dirty and so we literally must wash a lot of loads twice!

You're probably packing it too full.

I'd like to know what specific brand and model you're complaining about.

[Mangetout]

Sounds to me like Louize just bought a dud, or is otherwise a statistical outlier, in terms of user experience.

All* washing machines in the UK are automatic front-loaders, and as with any other category of electrical goods, there are really good ones, and not-so-good ones. Louize's criticisms don't make sense in this context (or in some cases, in general - I mean, just because something is a horizontal drum doesn't make it impossible to drain efficiently)

*nearly all. The only new machines I've ever seen that aren't front-loaders, in the last 20 years, are weird compact/student-type things that aren't really ordinary top-loaders either.

[jabiru]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

They're automatic washing machines - you can leave them unattended and do something else while they wash the laundry - does the cycle time matter all that much?

It matters if you have several loads to wash. I had a front loader when my boys (now nearing 30) were small and I couldn't wait to get rid of it. Apart from the very long cycle, I found that the machine didn't hold nearly enough, so I ended up doing even more loads. And then there's the not-being-able-to-add-another-item problem - perennial when you have small children.

[jabiru]

Originally Posted by Eliahna

I hate that everything comes out so creased that just putting things though the dryer isn't enough to "iron" them and I have to use the actual iron (like a common washerwoman!). If I wasn't forced to have a front loader by the layout of the laundry, I'd never have stopped using my faithful old top loader... but bah, crap, it's true. It does wash better.

I was considering going back to a front loader, despite my previous experience because I'd heard there'd been improvements since I last had one (in the '80s). Your post has convinced me otherwise.

[Louize]

That's a good point to make about which brands are going to work the best. The 3 yr old GE front loader Duet I have simply does not work well. It seems that newer front loader users find a happy medium and learn HOW to use their machines to get the results they want, as I had to. It has to do with how heavy or soiled a load is in accordance with which setting to choose. And as several already pointed out, you cannot soak or immerse clothing etc in the front loaders which I miss very much for reasons I already mentioned in my previous post. Incidentally, the instructions that came with my front loader DID say to leave the door open to dry out collecting water which may become sour or stagnate and also to do a regular 'washer cleaning' to kill what builds up from this leftover standing water after a wash. Water just does not drain out well enough in a front loader. For the quibblers, I think there is a misunderstanding about what a FAD can be. Of course front loaders have been around for ages but the newest new HE front loaders, HE detergent and all etc has been hyped the last 4-5-6 years. This Going Green hype or passing fancy (fad) will pass. I guess some haven't noticed or actually shopped for a new washer or dryer for a while. As for the Candyman's comments, well, they speak for themselves. I bet he kicks little puppies for fun, just by the way he is kicking around others legitimate comments on this message board. Anyway, since others have asked, I simply want to inform others of my experience with my newer GE Duet front loader washer as I too have heard complaints and thought I should look it up my self online and so here I am and thought it would be nice to also help others if possible to answer their questions and sort out their reasons for considering new front loaders. My machine is not a 'dud' it just doesn't do as good a job as a good top loader. I can only speak for the brand I purchased, however I would never again buy a front loader of any brand knowing what I know now firsthand and after also hearing from others who have started using front loaders in general. Only a strong large capacity top loader has ALL the water levels and cycle settings one could need from delicates to heavy work clothes. Live and learn! To each his own - choice!

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by Louize

I can only speak for the brand I purchased

Then you should stop making unqualified statements that front-loading washers are inferior to top-loading washers.

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by Green Cymbeline

Although I am still a bit skeptical... I want my clothes to be fully submerged and immersed in water!

Get over it. There is now a washing machine which uses only one cup of water for the entire cycle.

[Dereknocue67]

I've been using a front loader for about 12 years and have found that the front end purchase price of the machine is offset by the savings recovered by reduction in detergent and water use along with dryer run time.

You're saving $ by using less water and less detergent. Since the drum spins about about 1,000 rpm, the clothes contain less water at the end cycle meaning less drying time and electric/gas usage. Run your own calculations based on your detergent and utility costs but you should realize a savings.

On cleaning ability, the machine performs equally to a top loader.

[Hermitian]

What happens if you just need a bunch of water to really dilute the stuff you are trying to get rid of?

Suppose I just ended up with a ton of mud all over my clothes. Or what If I am washing cloth diapers and there is a lot of urine and some fecal matter? Just getting the clothes "damp" isn't going to cut it.

Does anyone know how front loaders deal with this?

Is there an immerse and dilute option?

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

What happens if you just need a bunch of water to really dilute the stuff you are trying to get rid of?

Suppose I just ended up with a ton of mud all over my clothes. Or what If I am washing cloth diapers and there is a lot of urine and some fecal matter? Just getting the clothes "damp" isn't going to cut it.

As has already been explained repeatedly in this thread, it is not the case that front-loading washers merely get the clothes "damp".

Does anyone know how front loaders deal with this?

They deal with them just fine. I have washed plenty of dirt- and fæces-encrusted fabrics in various front-loading washing machines, and they clean them just fine.

[WhyNot]

I think there's an assumption in wet climates that water is the only way to clean things. It's not. Ask someone who lives in the desert how to wash clothes (or pans, or hands) and you're going to get lots of advice, little of which involves water, or very much water.

Water is nice because it's, as our high school chemistry teachers taught us, "the universal solvent". It works to get out most common gunk, most of the time. Where most of us live, it's fairly cheap and plentiful and we haven't needed to find other ways to clean. But agitation works, brushing mud off words, scouring with sand works, leaving things out in the sun to lighten stains and odors works. It's just not what we're used to, because we're spoiled with plentiful water for washing.

[Pixel_Dent]

Even top loaders these days are moving toward high efficiency models that don't have an agitator and use much less water. The days of clothes floating around in a pool of dirty water are likely numbered.

[gotpasswords]

Originally Posted by gotpasswords

Which is better at washing braaaiiinnnnnnnss?

I thought most zombies did their laundry at the all-night laundromat, rather than buying their own washer and dryer.

Maybe double-zombies need a double shot of bleach?

[Deegeea]

I had a top loader for nine years (before that, just used laundromats) and now I've had a front loader for six years. (So it's 15 years or so since I went to a laundromat =D )

They wash equally well. I still have the same dryer. It's been deteriorating the entire time, and now barely heats up, but it's still enough to dry clothes from the front loader so I don't bother to replace it.

The front loader is good because the clothes are not as wet, and also because it uses less soap. We do need to put borax into every load - both to eliminate the pet odors and to help it wash better with so little soap - but not any more borax than we did before just for the odor reduction. In the top loader we could substitute ammonia for the borax, which was a bit cheaper and reduced odors almost as well, but ammonia does not work in the front loader.

The front loader cost a little bit more but probably about the same given inflation in the interim (500$ for the top loader 15 years ago and 650$ for the front loader six years ago). They were both discounted some amount or other and reviewed for being decent quality in Consumer reports, but I don't even remember the brand names.

[Candyman74]

Originally Posted by Louize

As for the Candyman's comments, well, they speak for themselves. I bet he kicks little puppies for fun, just by the way he is kicking around others legitimate comments on this message board.

Wow.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Louize

As for the Candyman's comments, well, they speak for themselves. I bet he kicks little puppies for fun, just by the way he is kicking around others legitimate comments on this message board.

Moderator Note

Louize, insults are not permitted in General Questions or most other forums on this board. Since you are new here, I am making this a note instead of a formal warning. However, don't do this again.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

PS. You might consider hitting the Enter key every once in awhile to break up your paragraphs. It would make them easier to read.

[sachertorte]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

What happens if you just need a bunch of water to really dilute the stuff you are trying to get rid of?

Suppose I just ended up with a ton of mud all over my clothes. Or what If I am washing cloth diapers and there is a lot of urine and some fecal matter? Just getting the clothes "damp" isn't going to cut it.

Does anyone know how front loaders deal with this?

Is there an immerse and dilute option?

Mine has a SOAK option.
I also have a RINSE option.

I guess if I had something especially muddy or gross, I would put it in and use the SOAK option. Then RINSE it, then do a normal wash.

Or I'd just wash it twice.

[suranyi]

Originally Posted by Pixel_Dent

Even top loaders these days are moving toward high efficiency models that don't have an agitator and use much less water. The days of clothes floating around in a pool of dirty water are likely numbered.

That's what I was going to say (and yes, I know this thread is a Zombie). We just bought a new washing machine a few months ago. It's a top-loader, but it has no agitator. It can hold far more than older top-loaders while using much less water.

(We were thinking of getting a front-loader but upon measuring we discovered that there wouldn't be room to open the door.)

[Mangetout]

It sounds like maybe the prevalence of (and in some cases, preference for) top-loading machines in America is leaving room for apathy in the supplier market and a general lack of drive towards excellence

Originally Posted by Louize

It has to do with how heavy or soiled a load is in accordance with which setting to choose. And as several already pointed out, you cannot soak or immerse clothing etc in the front loaders which I miss very much for reasons I already mentioned in my previous post.

Mine has a prewash/presoak function, with a separate compartment in the detergent drawer for prewash solution. Every machine I've seen in the UK for the last 20 years had this - it's just a missing feature on your machine, I'd say.

Incidentally, the instructions that came with my front loader DID say to leave the door open to dry out collecting water which may become sour or stagnate and also to do a regular 'washer cleaning' to kill what builds up from this leftover standing water after a wash.

I remember hearing about problems with water trapped in the folds of the door seal on older machines, and this causing it to perish if left standing, but that doesn't seem a problem any more.

Water just does not drain out well enough in a front loader.

No reason why it shouldn't - the drum has to be symmetrical along the axis of spin, or it would be a very bad thing, but the vessel in which the drum spins can be any shape, and can include a funnel-shaped or sloped bottom to facilitate (pumped) drainage. If yours doesn't drain, it's just bad product design, not a fundamental failing of the concept of front loaders.

This Going Green hype or passing fancy (fad) will pass.

It's never been a question of going green, for me. I did choose an energy/water-efficient model last time I had to replace the washing machine, but that was a choice between different kinds of front loaders - that's all there is on the market here.

My machine is not a 'dud' it just doesn't do as good a job as a good top loader. I can only speak for the brand I purchased, however I would never again buy a front loader of any brand knowing what I know now firsthand and after also hearing from others who have started using front loaders in general. Only a strong large capacity top loader has ALL the water levels and cycle settings one could need from delicates to heavy work clothes.

None of the issues you've described is a fundamental flaw of front loaders. Your machine (and maybe most machines in your market area, for all I know) must just be poorly designed - because none of the issues you describe are common complaints here, ever.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by jabiru

It matters if you have several loads to wash. I had a front loader when my boys (now nearing 30) were small and I couldn't wait to get rid of it.

Machine capacities vary quite widely - the bigger ones cost more. Given that there's usually a need to separate colours and whites, and that the machines run unattended, it just isn't a problem to do multiple washes (unless you have a shortage of spare clothes, I guess)

And then there's the not-being-able-to-add-another-item problem - perennial when you have small children.

That's another name for the not-wanting-water-all-over-the-floor problem. You can't open the door when the machine is mid-cycle, for the same sorts of reasons you can't get off a train between stations. I've never found it a problem, really - anything that gets dirty just after the start of the current wash just has to wait for the next one.

[Omar Little]

I bought a front loading Kenmore HE3 washer and dryer about 10 years ago, and it's still working. Never have had to have it serviced. Probably need to upgrade soon, but they clean the clothes great haven't had a single problem. Hardly a fad.

[flodnak]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

Sounds to me like Louize just bought a dud, or is otherwise a statistical outlier, in terms of user experience.

Since she's only commented on this thread, and her opinions have been so extremely strong, I'm half-expecting her to come back and shill for her "favorite" top-loader brand. But maybe I am just getting cynical.... (Colored diamonds, anyone?)

As for myself, I've washed the same clothes in my front-loader here in Troll Country, and my mother's top-loader in Pennsylvania, and while I'm grateful to have the chance to do laundry for free while we're in the States, there's no doubt in my mind that the clothes get cleaner and are rinsed more thoroughly in the front-loader. Of course, it also takes four times as long, but one learns to plan ahead....

[enipla]

Originally Posted by Mijin

I think the image some have of a front loader just spraying the clothes with water or using "just a couple of cups" is misleading.

If, for whatever reason, you ever need to interrupt a wash cycle, you'll find the clothes are dripping wet; as if they were completely immersed.
Because they were, just not all of the time.

I agree with this. We have a front loader and the clothes get completely soaked. Not just 'damp'

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by enipla

I agree with this. We have a front loader and the clothes get completely soaked. Not just 'damp'

Quite - dunno where people were getting this 'damp' notion from. In every front loader I've seen, the thing fills up to something like 1/3 or halfway full of water/detergent, then the drum does its thing - the clothes are being lifted/sloshed in and out of the wash water repeatedly - so water is alternately soaking into/draining out of the fabric, and carrying dirt out with it.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by flodnak

Of course, it also takes four times as long, but one learns to plan ahead....

This is interesting. What's a typical wash-spin cycle time for a standard wash on American front loaders? Mine takes about 45 minutes, I think - it has a 'time remaining' countdown, which is reasonably accurate - changes a bit as it goes, subject to fill times (varies subject to water pressure) and water heating times (varies subject to temperature of mains water)

[Great Antibob]

Originally Posted by aceplace57

How do people wash diapers in a front loader? They have to be soaked in bleach to get the piss & poop stains out. We always soaked our kids diapers a full half hour before turning the cycle back on.

AFAIK you can't soak clothes in a front loader.

You don't need to cover your clothes in water to soak them, and bleach still works in a front loader (though I'm thinking you might be using a bit much, even so).

I've got friends who regularly clean diapers in their front loader. It just involves using the right settings and also using bleach.

My folks ran a dry cleaning business, and it was never an issue with their industrial sized washers (always front loaders). But you can't wash that stuff like normal clothes, either. Temperature settings and pre-washing (i.e. getting most of the "solids" off first and spot treating the worst stains) are always going to be important.

The truth is, most people know just enough about how to use their washing machines to get reasonably clean clothes. But most people still don't actually use them properly.

The worst sin seems to be too much detergent. I know the temptation is "more soap = cleaner clothes" but after a certain amount, you're actually making things worse. Top loaders are great for demonstrations of this. Try putting your clothes in a wash cycle without any detergent. Most people will start to see suds forming from all the detergent residue from previous washes. In the worst cases, my folks sometimes got clothes that hardly needed any detergent from all the residue and had to go through 2 cycles - one to remove the residue and one for the actual wash.

Originally Posted by Mangetout

This is interesting. What's a typical wash-spin cycle time for a standard wash on American front loaders?

The "four times as long" was a bit of an exaggeration, I'm guessing. A top loader might take 20-30 minutes, while a front loader might take around 45 (longer depending on the setting and load, of course). That's compensated a bit by the shorter drying time.

Many complaints about front loaders end up being "it's different than what I'm used to, therefore it's bad".

[flodnak]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

This is interesting. What's a typical wash-spin cycle time for a standard wash on American front loaders? Mine takes about 45 minutes, I think - it has a 'time remaining' countdown, which is reasonably accurate - changes a bit as it goes, subject to fill times (varies subject to water pressure) and water heating times (varies subject to temperature of mains water)

The shortest cycle on my mother's top-loader, a fairly standard American washer, is just a hair shy of 30 minutes.

The typical cycle on a front-loader for the Norwegian market, which takes in cold water only and heats it to the desired temperature, is about two hours, depending on the temperature you select. Mine does have shorter cycles, but I don't really trust them for normal laundry. (Well, the cycles for woolens and delicates are shorter, and I do use those.)

Still, in two hours, my washer is using less electricity and water than my mother's machine does for a half-hour cycle. I don't grok.

[suranyi]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

It sounds like maybe the prevalence of (and in some cases, preference for) top-loading machines in America is leaving room for apathy in the supplier market and a general lack of drive towards excellence.

That's ridiculous. There's been tremendous innovation in washing machines in recent years, both among front-loaders and top-loaders. I just mentioned that I bought a new high-efficiency top-loader earlier this year. It has no agitator -- it uses a completely different washing mechanism than older top-loaders, so it uses much less water.

[BwanaBob]

Our top loader does a full load in under 20 min. Time is more precious to me than the price of water. I cannot see how barely making something damp can get something clean. Suppose I have a sweat soaked t-shirt. It's already damp. Is your 2 gallons of water from front loader magically going to substitute clean water for my sweat? Or rinse away the salt?

Someone said their front loader fills up 1/3 to 1/2 of the drum; I'd like to know the brand/model because all the one's I've looked at while shopping seem to brag about how little water they use (seeming less than an 1/8 of the drum).

[BwanaBob]

Originally Posted by suranyi

That's ridiculous. There's been tremendous innovation in washing machines in recent years, both among front-loaders and top-loaders. I just mentioned that I bought a new high-efficiency top-loader earlier this year. It has no agitator -- it uses a completely different washing mechanism than older top-loaders, so it uses much less water.

We tried one of those and dumped it in a week. They're just as slow as the front loaders, and also try to get away with using 3 gallons of water in what appears to be a 30 gallon drum. The worst of both worlds. Not drinking the kool-aid.

[Procrustus]

Originally Posted by BwanaBob

I cannot see how barely making something damp can get something clean. Suppose I have a sweat soaked t-shirt. It's already damp. Is your 2 gallons of water from front loader magically going to substitute clean water for my sweat? Or rinse away the salt?

.

Many have pointed out that clothes in a front loader get soaking wet. I will add my humble voice to that chorus. It's really really true. Wet.

[Candyman74]

Originally Posted by BwanaBob

Our top loader does a full load in under 20 min. Time is more precious to me than the price of water. I cannot see how barely making something damp can get something clean. Suppose I have a sweat soaked t-shirt. It's already damp. Is your 2 gallons of water from front loader magically going to substitute clean water for my sweat? Or rinse away the salt?

Someone said their front loader fills up 1/3 to 1/2 of the drum; I'd like to know the brand/model because all the one's I've looked at while shopping seem to brag about how little water they use (seeming less than an 1/8 of the drum).

Yep, the whole of Europe stinks. 400 million reeking people in filthy stained clothes. Me? I smell of sweat, and wee, and poo, and my clothes stand up all by themselves. I gave three people cholera last week just by driving past the on the street. They didn't mind, though, because they were filthy and reeking and already had every disease known to man.

Or, alternatively: obviously they work just fine.