I Pit Men Who Think Working Women Are There to Service Their Sex Drive

[Broomstick]

Now, as a woman working in a retail environment I see a LOT of men. Most of them are extremely decent, respectful human beings that treat me like I'm a professional human being.

Then there are exceptions.

This rather extroverted "gentleman" came by to get his sandals fixed. They were in terrible shape and the manager wanted to just toss them but he was persistent and I said I'd give it a try. So, I fixed his shoes.

He seems to think this an invitation to flirt. No, correction: he considers it an invitation to ask me to be his girlfriend and when I protested I was married he said that didn't bother him and insisted on giving me his phone number and ordering me to call him.

Which I didn't.

The very next morning he comes to the shop and wants to know why I didn't call him!



I'm not entirely sure where to begin with this. First, I am here to be a cobbler, not to troll for a mate. Total disregard for my marriage immediately kicks this guy to the bottom of the list of "Totally Untrustworthy Slimeballs I Want Nothing To Do With". The lack of a wedding ring is because I work with machinery that can rip your fucking fingers off if they catch a ring or bracelet - but I suppose proper labeling of my ownership marriage status is more important than having intact fingers/hands to some people. A handshake is not a woman saying "yes, I want to fuck you, you asshole loser". I am not a cunt with legs to service the penises of lonely, horny men.

In other words, you piece of shit asshole No means NO.

Yes, you HAVE offended me. No, I do NOT want an apology - I want you to fucking go away and never be seen in my shop again. We are not "friends". We will NEVER be friends. Go AWAY.

[SmithCommaJohn]

Hey there. What time do you get off work?

[Vinyl Turnip]

Huh. Cobbler is still a profession?

[Bosstone]

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

Huh. Cobbler is still a profession?

I thought they had elves for that, didn't they?

[DiosaBellissima]

Why are you being such a stuck up bitch? You aren't that good looking anyway, you ugly bitch. Fat ass, lesbian bitch.



Oh, sorry. Thought you wanted the stereotypical responses you get after turning down a guy who has been hounding you.

[billfish678]

NICE guys don't do this sorta shit. Just sayin ladies.

Maybe he thought you were a gobbler, not a cobbler? And you got handshake raped? And a word of advice. In this bad ecconomy the better you service your customers the better you'll be able to weather this economic storm.

Okay, I am just joking with you there. Geez, what a tool that guy is! I mean seriously, thats the kind you almost have trouble believing exists, except for the well know fact that if you can imagine it, it exists.

Yes, a cobbler is an ancient profession. The second oldest. The oldest being a farmer (squeeee).

[Alice The Goon]

Originally Posted by billfish678

NICE guys don't do this sorta shit. Just sayin ladies.

Maybe he thought you were a gobbler, not a cobbler? And you got handshake raped? And a word of advice. In this bad ecconomy the better you service your customers the better you'll be able to weather this economic storm.

Okay, I am just joking with you there. Geez, what a tool that guy is! I mean seriously, thats the kind you almost have trouble believing exists, except for the well know fact that if you can imagine it, it exists.

You wouldn't have any trouble imagining that men like this exist, if you were a woman. They are all too common. I once had an 85 year-old man grab my face and try to kiss me, at his doctor's office, while I was attaching a Holter monitor to his chest. They fired him as a patient, only because there were similar incidents with other assistants documented in his chart. 85!

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by DiosaBellissima

Why are you being such a stuck up bitch? You aren't that good looking anyway, you ugly bitch. Fat ass, lesbian bitch.

No, hon - that's the owner and her partner of 28 years

Oh, sorry. Thought you wanted the stereotypical responses you get after turning down a guy who has been hounding you.

No, actually I was hoping for a little sympathy but I should know better by now. I've had about three showers since I tossed the guy out of the store and I still don't feel clean. My stomach's been upset and I could hardly eat dinner last night because I was nauseous. I had trouble sleeping last night because I am so fucking angry over this shit.

Fortunately, my spouse is very understanding about my response. He knows how incredibly angry this makes me. I mean, seriously, it demeans me as a human being and reduces me to the level of a fleshlight or something.

The guy prefacing all that with what a bitch his ex-wife was didn't help - I'm beginning to understand why she divorced him and went back to the old country. I wouldn't mind putting the Atlantic between me and him, either.

Sorry, maybe I'll ask a mod to close the thread - I keep forgetting that women are supposed to put up with this bullshit and complaining is not allowed. I was hoping to pit him, but as usual it's the woman's fault.

[Fiveroptic]

Cobbler is delicious, therefore I sort of understand his persistence.

[Broomstick]

Or, to be more clear -

The "jokes" about how I asked for it, how har-har funny it is, and so forth just hurt me all over again. So fuck all you who think being treated like a self-mobile cunt is FUNNY. You're just as bad as he is.

I just hope he doesn't turn into a goddamned stalker.

[Sattua]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

I'm beginning to understand why she divorced him and went back to the old country.

Oh, like the one he mail-ordered her from?

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

No, hon - that's the owner and her partner of 28 years


No, actually I was hoping for a little sympathy but I should know better by now. I've had about three showers since I tossed the guy out of the store and I still don't feel clean. My stomach's been upset and I could hardly eat dinner last night because I was nauseous. I had trouble sleeping last night because I am so fucking angry over this shit.

Fortunately, my spouse is very understanding about my response. He knows how incredibly angry this makes me. I mean, seriously, it demeans me as a human being and reduces me to the level of a fleshlight or something.

The guy prefacing all that with what a bitch his ex-wife was didn't help - I'm beginning to understand why she divorced him and went back to the old country. I wouldn't mind putting the Atlantic between me and him, either.

Sorry, maybe I'll ask a mod to close the thread - I keep forgetting that women are supposed to put up with this bullshit and complaining is not allowed. I was hoping to pit him, but as usual it's the woman's fault.

Want some cheese with that? Thought this thread was overwhelmingly in your favour up to now. {{{{{Broomstick}}}}}

[ZPG Zealot]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

A handshake is not a woman saying "yes, I want to fuck you, you asshole loser".

The incredibly high number of men I have encountered who do believe the opposite is precisely why I only rarely shake hands with men and then only wearing gloves. When it comes to creeps give them an inch, and they will try to take a foot. Do I think you asked for? Not really, I think a misogynistic society socialized you to act in way that made you an easier victim.

[DiosaBellissima]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

Sorry, maybe I'll ask a mod to close the thread - I keep forgetting that women are supposed to put up with this bullshit and complaining is not allowed. I was hoping to pit him, but as usual it's the woman's fault.

I hope you know I was 100% kidding and, if anything, making fun of the stereotypical responses that get defended on this very board. If you look to some of the other threads about similar topics I've posted about, I in no way have a history of defending guys like that. Homeboy was a creeper of the highest order and I'd politely request that the owner perma-ban him from the premises-- adding in that if he returns, you'll go to the police.

[Hello Again]

Holy crap. As I started reading I was like "typical dickhead customer" -- gross but it happens to about everyone in service industries, and no, men are not immune from aggressive women (or men) either -- but then when he came back solely to berate you my jaw fell open. That is beyond the pale, and scary. You should discuss with your manager what you will do next time, ie, call mall security (if applicable), the police, etc.

[Septima]

Originally Posted by billfish678

Yes, a cobbler is an ancient profession. The second oldest. The oldest being a farmer (squeeee).

I think "Flint Knapper" is a lot older than farmer.

Come to think of it, people had shoes before they thought of agriculture, but I guess it's debatable if people just made their own, or had a person for it.

[Maeglin]

I thought that the satisfaction of male sex drives is what a working woman does for a living. When did this change?

[Bricker]

I don't know if the Pit is the best choice for a posting that expects supporting and comforting responses.

And while I'm here, all joking aside, I guess I'm a little confused about why this upset you so much. Yes, it's clear the man has no social skills and no real sense of propriety. And I understand that those are danger signs that you'd be foolish to simply forget.

But at the same time, what I hear you relating is not, as I think about it, fearsome or threatening contact. It's simply boorish and rude.

I know that as a man, I'm not a target of this kind of attention as a general rule. But I am honestly not seeing the justification for the literal naseous reaction you had.

[ugly ripe tomato]

A friend of mine who worked at the same store I used to work at was being stalked by an old scumbag. Store security eventually threw him out but she was so scared he'd be waiting for her in the parking lot or something she got to be afraid to come in to work at all.

I saw what she went through so I feel for ya, Broomstick

[Lynn Bodoni]

Originally Posted by Alice The Goon

You wouldn't have any trouble imagining that men like this exist, if you were a woman. They are all too common. I once had an 85 year-old man grab my face and try to kiss me, at his doctor's office, while I was attaching a Holter monitor to his chest. They fired him as a patient, only because there were similar incidents with other assistants documented in his chart. 85!

Yeah, it's pretty common. Sure, MOST men think that this is stuff that almost never happens, because they never do it, and so they think it's funny. But any woman who has had to work knows that it's pretty common, and it's not funny at all. There really are men who think that all women will put out if a man can only come up with enough cash (or its equivalent). And while these men are a minority of men, they aren't nearly rare enough, and they don't get called on their bullshit often enough.

The worst part is that a lot of workplaces expect the women to just put up with this shit, it's part of interacting with the public.

[Septima]

*Slinks back in to contribute something relevant*

Broomstick, I think people are making the the jokes with or in support of you, making fun of him, or sharing what they've heard/experienced. I don't think anyone is making light or fun of you. If they are, fuck them. You're in the right here.

And how cool is that, you're a cobbler. I was seriously debating becoming a cobbler instead of a goldsmith, but went with the shiny bling. Cobblers are good people. Keep your chin up, and be proud, you're part of a really ancient craft tradition there, even if you're just fixing brand-name sandals.

He has to live with being him, every day, forever. Imagine how horrible that is.

You get to be you, which is a great thing to be.

[zoid]

Originally Posted by ZPG Zealot

The incredibly high number of men I have encountered who do believe the opposite is precisely why I only rarely shake hands with men and then only wearing gloves. When it comes to creeps give them an inch, and they will try to take a foot. Do I think you asked for? Not really, I think a misogynistic society socialized you to act in way that made you an easier victim.

That didn't take long.

[mister nyx]

Originally Posted by Bricker

I don't know if the Pit is the best choice for a posting that expects supporting and comforting responses.

And while I'm here, all joking aside, I guess I'm a little confused about why this upset you so much. Yes, it's clear the man has no social skills and no real sense of propriety. And I understand that those are danger signs that you'd be foolish to simply forget.

But at the same time, what I hear you relating is not, as I think about it, fearsome or threatening contact. It's simply boorish and rude.

I know that as a man, I'm not a target of this kind of attention as a general rule. But I am honestly not seeing the justification for the literal naseous reaction you had.

Is it really hard to imagine why a woman might find this sort of "boorish and rude" contact potentially frightening? Not only did he continue pursuing her after she made it clear his attention was unwanted, but he came back to yell at her the next day.

That would set off alarm bells for anyone sane I would think.

[OtakuLoki]

What a total slimeball. I'm with the poster who suggested that you should talk to your boss about this, and see what is recommended if this scum comes back again to further harass you.


I also want to specifically suggest to Bricker, that anyone who would come back to a place of business less than 24 hours after forcing one's cell phone number on a worker there, and berate that worker for failing to use that number to call him has such misguided views of where social boundaries should be, that I'd be pretty scared of what else he'd consider reasonable. That's not cluelessness, that's aggressive and scary behavior.

[Bosstone]

Originally Posted by mister nyx

Not only did he continue pursuing her after she made it clear his attention was unwanted, but he came back to yell at her the next day.

Except that's not what Broomstick said in the OP.

Originally Posted by Broomstick

The very next morning he comes to the shop and wants to know why I didn't call him!

There's a whole range of possible responses that can be described that way, anything from skeevy but mild to genuinely threatening.

I'll admit I interpreted it as a more mild attempt to continue flirting, which is still not cool, but not on the level of yelling or berating.

[Gagundathar]

Wow! That is horrible, Broomstick. These are the kind of guys that make the rest of us look like troglodytes. No, strike that. That is being mean to those poor trogs.

It is good that your spouse is supportive. Is there some way for your business to block the creep from ever harassing you again? Do you think this might escalate into stalking? There is some pretty significant jail time associated with a conviction for stalking.

I respect your courage in bringing the situation to this forum. I know I must be rather sheltered and isolated when I say that this kind of behavior is utterly alien to me. It is very sad that such behavior is par-for-the-course when it comes to women in the workplace.

Good luck, and I hope this never happens to you again.

[OtakuLoki]

Bosstone, no - I don't think that coming back less that 24 hours later can be considered mild.

Especially not when she'd told him she wasn't interested in the first place.

I can interpret it no other way than as aggressive behavior. No matter how mild mannered his tone might have been. (Which I don't believe for a moment, but I'll admit to the possibility.)



BTW, I'm going to puke at the next male who comes in to make this shit about how horrible it is for the other men who get tarred by the actions of a few like this asshole.

Fuck that whininess. Suck up and deal with it. Life's not fair, and you will have to deal with unfair comparisons all your fucking life.

Don't make this about YOU, for the love of carytids. WGASA

[Belowjob2.0]

So was the first time you two slept together as good as you thought it would be, or even better? Since you're leaving your husband, be sure to let him down easy. He didn't deserve this. He's just an unintended casualty of the sex bomb that went off in your shoe shop.

[Myrnalene]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

I'll admit I interpreted it as a more mild attempt to continue flirting, which is still not cool, but not on the level of yelling or berating.

She made it clear the day before that it wasn't happening. He came back and bothered her the next day. That shows her that he has a complete disregard for boundaries and not much interest in what she actually thinks, or respect for her right to make her own decisions about who she does what with.

That's unsettling, and it doesn't matter whether he was "nice" about it or not. Who's to say he wouldn't be waiting in the parking lot when she got off her shift? It happens.

Creeps that do this kind of stuff are bad enough. What's almost worse is self - identified "good guys" who would know better than to actually do this shit, but who never fail to tell women they are overreacting when someone else does it.

[mister nyx]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

Except that's not what Broomstick said in the OP.

Okay, fine, when he came back to hound her the next day, she didn't indicate that he yelled. He merely said a bunch of sexist things about his ex-wife and then aggressively pursued her even after she indicated that she was completely uninterested. And then when she failed to cooperate he came back to hound her about it the next day.

But you're right, she didn't say he yelled. I shouldn't have exaggerated.

There's a whole range of possible responses that can be described that way, anything from skeevy but mild to genuinely threatening.

I'll admit I interpreted it as a more mild attempt to continue flirting, which is still not cool, but not on the level of yelling or berating.

"Flirting"? In what world is referring to your ex-wife as a bitch, pursuing someone and making it clear that you don't care that she's married and that she's uninterested, and then forcing her to take your phone number, "flirting"?

[Myrnalene]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

The "jokes" about how I asked for it, how har-har funny it is, and so forth just hurt me all over again. So fuck all you who think being treated like a self-mobile cunt is FUNNY. You're just as bad as he is.

Originally Posted by Belowjob2.0

So was the first time you two slept together as good as you thought it would be, or even better? Since you're leaving your husband, be sure to let him down easy. He didn't deserve this. He's just an unintended casualty of the sex bomb that went off in your shoe shop.

Fucking Dopers, man. Nothing is more important than the opportunity to make an unfunny joke.

[Bosstone]

Originally Posted by OtakuLoki

Bosstone, no - I don't think that coming back less that 24 hours later can be considered mild.

Especially not when she'd told him she wasn't interested in the first place.

I can interpret it no other way than as aggressive behavior. No matter how mild mannered his tone might have been. (Which I don't believe for a moment, but I'll admit to the possibility.)

It could easily be tone-deaf.

I'll shut up now, because I really don't like turning this kind of thing into a semantic hair-splitting parsing thing, only just to point out that there was enough ambiguity that those of us men with less direct experience weren't intentionally downplaying it. It sounded like Broomstick was pissed off with an annoyance and wanted to rant in the Pit, not fearful or threatened.

Anyway, regardless of how it actually happened, it seriously isn't good. I've dropped a male coworker in hot water for making a female coworker uncomfortable, and I'd like to think I could do the same for a female employee with an asshole customer.

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

I thought they had elves for that, didn't they?

No, that's "Keebler". Easy mistake to make.

[Jenaroph]

If it were me, I'd consider handing out that guy's phone number to a whole bunch of people.

Starting with my husband. And then my friends. And then a bunch of guys at the nearest gay bar.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by zoid

That didn't take long.

Yeah, really!

Originally Posted by ZPG Zealot

I think a misogynistic society socialized you to act in way that made you an easier victim.

I think I need someone to deconstruct that for me. Or would that be reconstruct?

I must have been socialized to be confused!

[curlcoat]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

The very next morning he comes to the shop and wants to know why I didn't call him!

Buh? The rest sounded wearyingly the same old same old until I got to this. He really expected that a married woman he had only just met, in a retail setting, would actually call him? I know that most of these sorts of men are delusional but this one really takes the cake.

Originally Posted by Bricker

And while I'm here, all joking aside, I guess I'm a little confused about why this upset you so much. Yes, it's clear the man has no social skills and no real sense of propriety. And I understand that those are danger signs that you'd be foolish to simply forget.

But at the same time, what I hear you relating is not, as I think about it, fearsome or threatening contact. It's simply boorish and rude.

I know that as a man, I'm not a target of this kind of attention as a general rule. But I am honestly not seeing the justification for the literal naseous reaction you had.

If you were female and particularly if you smaller or in some way vulnerable, you would understand how this sort of thing can be scary. And even if you were a female sumo wrestler, it just gets old. It's demeaning, degrading, dehumanizing it be looked at as merely a collection of orifices. Boorish and rude is when a man insists he buy a girl a drink when she has already said no; what happened to Broomstick was bordering on abusive and stalking. Despite what far too many males still think, human females are not on this earth simply for their amusement. This was not a man lacking in social skills (!), this was a man who placed the same value on Broomstick that he would on a rubber sex doll.

I know it's difficult for men to get since they are never put in this position. The closest example I've been able to come up with is imagine how you would like it if the only value all women put on you was how much money you would give them. And even that isn't all that close.

[mhendo]

Broomstick, i'm sorry this asshole was such an asshole to you.

ZPG Zealot, you are one fucking crazy-ass crazy person.

That is all.

[Bob Ducca]

We're sorry.

[DiosaBellissima]

While I certainly understand why the men in this thread would see it reasonable to down play the actions of this guy and not assume the worst, I hope you guys can at least understand why the women here feel as we do.

If from the day you hit puberty until society deems you unattractive (and sometimes even then!), you are constantly hit on, followed around, molested, and generally bugged everywhere you go. . . you'd be pretty testy, too. I can't even count all the times in my life I've had strange men try to grope me. Or hit on me. Or try to follow me to my car. Or attempt to get physically threatening when I say no.

When I was a teenager, I thought I was doing something wrong and deserved this pigs harassing me. As an adult, I just get pissed off. Well, that's not true- sometimes it's really scary when guys follow me still.

Sure, they might be harmless, but I've had enough non harmless encounters in my life to- at the very least- be wary.

[Ferret Herder]

Originally Posted by John Mace

I think I need someone to deconstruct that for me. Or would that be reconstruct?

I must have been socialized to be confused!

WAG: In an ideal world, she should have told him no, period. No "I'm involved" or anything like that; it just sets you up as sounding like "maybe - if it weren't for my boyfriend I'd totally fuck you now" to horny guys. When the phone number was pushed on her, in an ideal world (and in which she's the shop owner, I suspect), she should have told him to get out/fuck off/etc.

Except, yeah, this isn't an ideal world and women are told to always be polite and plain "no" is never never never an OK response to being asked out because women should be flattered if a guy thinks she's pretty/wants to "date" her and argh...

Anyway, yeah, I'd be at least somewhat disturbed if this happened to me at work. I've been pretty lucky at my workplace but know of a few male patients that female techs in my department try to not be alone with in the same room due to inappropriate questions/comments/attempts to touch their hand/hair/back/whatever.

[LurkerInNJ]

Is this your first time working with the public? If so, accept that a certain percentage of the public is anywhere from clueless to outright mentally ill and don't get yourself worked up about it. He was a total ass, but by this stage of his life, nothing is going to rectify that.

Hand the jerk his shoes, say thanks for using Cobblers Inc. and be deaf and mute as far as he is concerned from that instant on. No need to respond further to him or his inappropriate demands.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by Bosstone

. It sounded like Broomstick was pissed off with an annoyance and wanted to rant in the Pit, not fearful or threatened.

Yeah, this.

Hint to OP. Don't tell half the story then get bent outa shape when people can't somehow magically conjure up in their mind the stuff you reveal in your second post before you've posted it.

First post. She was pissed by creepy creeper. Followed by posts that were mostly non mean spirited jokes and general agreement that creepy creeper is creepy.

Don't pull a Paul Harvey. Tell the whole damn story the first go around.

[The Great Sun Jester]

Originally Posted by Septima

I don't think anyone is making light or fun of you. If they are, fuck them.

She. Doesn't. Want. To.

Broomstick, sorry you had to deal with a creep, my condolences, we're not all like that, etc. In all seriousness.

What bugs me is why people insist on calling these kinds of guys "men." It kind of poisons the word. Call them creeps, assholes, perverts, kitten lickers, whatever, but it'd be nice if y'all could leave "men" alone to mean, you know, respectful/respectable penis-owners. We try to do the same for females. There are women, and then there are bitches, wimmins, cunts...all kinds of terminology.

Bah...nobody asked me though. Carry on. And don't call the guy.

[Drunky Smurf]

Originally Posted by Bob Ducca

We're sorry.

Fuck that noise. I ain't sorry. Why just the other day I went to get my shoes repaired...

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

...kitten lickers...

And just what the hell is wrong with licking kittens?

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by Myrnalene

Fucking Dopers, man. Nothing is more important than the opportunity to make an unfunny joke.

You know, you're real pissy since you got the bum's rush out of the 'Phant.

[The Man With The Golden Gun]

You should post this idiot's number on 4chan and let them have their way with him.

Or apologize and set up a time in your store you can meet him, but not before placing a land mine under your store's entrance.

The former would probably be a lot less pleasant for him, though, so I'd go with that.

[Carmady]

Originally Posted by The Man With The Golden Gun

You should post this idiot's number on 4chan and let them have their way with him.

Or apologize and set up a time in your store you can meet him, but not before placing a land mine under your store's entrance.

The former would probably be a lot less pleasant for him, though, so I'd go with that.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Three wrongs, on the other hand, do make a right. So I'd go with both of your suggestions.

[billfish678]

And 4 wongs make a damn good chinese buffet.

[emcee2k]

When I read the OP I just thought "Well that guy's an obnoxious douche". It wasn't until I read post #8 that I figured out that this was an issue of feeling threatened.

Maybe that's the issue here, though, if you've actually experience a situation like the one described in the OP, maybe the feelings associated with it are implied. And from the perspective of the person actually dealing with repeated unwanted advances, there probably isn't much noticeable difference between "obnoxious douche" and "threatening creeper".

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by mhendo

ZPG Zealot, you are one fucking crazy-ass crazy person.

She's the craziest person in the world. When the inmates at Bellevue need to point at laugh, they call her.

I don't always shake hands, but when I do, I wear gloves. Stay paranoid, my friends.