The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > Great Debates

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 04-30-2012, 01:43 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 78,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
Heck, I'm only going by the facts GEEPERS presents in his arguments. If he says Islam says Adam was 90 feet tall, I'll do him the courtesy of assuming he did the necessary research and not, as a less generous person might, conclude he's just talking out of his ass.
There seems to be an Islamic tradition that says he was, and yes, that'd be crazy. It seems to be a scriptural interpretation and not a core teaching of the religion, but it is absurd. But it's no crazier than plenty of stuff that Jews and Muslims and Christians agree about.
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #202  
Old 04-30-2012, 01:43 PM
Revtim Revtim is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by simster View Post
can anyone confirm/deny that Muslim teaching is that Adam was 90' tall?
if you Google it, there's lots of references to it.

Here's one:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall (90 feet tall).
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 04-30-2012, 01:50 PM
simster simster is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revtim View Post
if you Google it, there's lots of references to it.

Here's one:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall (90 feet tall).
Yeah - I did do some googling after posting the question here - the gist I got from a scan of several is that

a) there is a reference that has his height (quoted above)
b) this height may have been in 'heaven' as opposed to when he was on earth
c) all man when they enter this area will be restored to that height.

so, I don't see it as all taht different than teaching that Adam was perfect, sin entered, he was cast out, when we are 'saved' we will be restored to Adam's perfection (when we are in heaven/etc).

Just that they put a value in for height ....

Last edited by simster; 04-30-2012 at 01:52 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 04-30-2012, 01:52 PM
FinnAgain FinnAgain is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Well, I mean, yeah... that a human being was created out of nothing but dirt and magic, and then a second human being was created by taking the first human's rib and magically duplicating it? And both humans would've been immortal unless they ate from a tree that told them about the difference between good and evil. And they were only tricked into eating that fruit by a magic talking snake, who later folks will try to retcon and claim was a totally different character, Ha'Satan, who still wasn't a snake. That's okay. That good, old time religion.

But that that first human being was really tall? Blasphemy! Absurd! Nonsense!
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 04-30-2012, 01:52 PM
Revtim Revtim is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by simster View Post
so, I don't see it as all taht different than teaching that Adam was perfect, sin entered, he was cast out, when we are 'saved' we will be restored to Adam's perfection.

Just that they put a value in for height ....
I agree, just another fairy-tale property among many.
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:07 PM
Eve Eve is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revtim View Post
The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall (90 feet tall).
How tall was Eve? If she was only, like 5'3", I can see them having problems in their relationship.
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:12 PM
Alka Seltzer Alka Seltzer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Of course Adam was 90 feet tall. A merciful God wouldn't create man just to leave him at the mercy of the first T-Rex to come along would he?
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:13 PM
GEEPERS GEEPERS is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post


I was wondering when your ignorance about science would come out. Any significant finding does get verified by people who would just love to prove it wrong. Any significant finding gets reproduced - or falsified. Does "cold fusion" mean anything to you? And science not only recognizes that scientist makes mistakes, the whole process is built around this recognition. Paper reviewers look for mistakes. If a paper gets through with a mistake there are letters - and the paper gets pulled. I personally know of just such a case.
Wow, so scientists can make mistakes, and therefore, atheists who practically worship the scientists as gods can actually be wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post


So, your comments showed an extreme dislike of Islam. Want to explain why this kind of stuff is okay for you and not for them?
I'm not even going there. It was a mistake to allow myself to be boxed in a corner where I'm having to criticize other religions. Funny though, where are all the so called Christians in this thread? You know ,these are basic accusations that any Christian could chime in on. Any Christian want to explain why Christianity is more valid than other religions? Hello? crickets... Naw, I still think this is an atheist forum.
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:14 PM
Lobohan Lobohan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eve View Post
How tall was Eve? If she was only, like 5'3", I can see them having problems in their relationship.
Distrubing username post combo, for $200, Alex.
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:14 PM
magellan01 magellan01 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
That's quite true. I've always thought that if there is a god, it is the god of some other planet who actually told his people an accurate story of creation, and who did whatever godding he had to do 8 or ten billion years ago, and didn't wait around so long for us. We just arose accidentally around a star that formed from the stuff of his inspired Big Bang. Perhaps he has brought all his people to heaven already, let's just hope he doesn't decide to clean up the universe on us.

I see no reason to believe this, of course, so I'm still an atheist, but it is more plausible than any human religion, since it doesn't go against any facts.
You should have stopped after the period at the end of your third word. Once you create a mythology around the God I described (and you seemed to agree with my post) it's easy to discount it, as it would be any religion. Which, no doubt, is why you did it. But it negates my post not one iota. Everything that comes after that first sentence of yours falls into the exact same fallacy of attempting to create rational support for Atheism by shooting holes in myth/religion.
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:14 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 78,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eve View Post
How tall was Eve? If she was only, like 5'3", I can see them having problems in their relationship.
What is it with women? You say you want a taller man, then when he's 90 feet tall, you're still not happy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
I'm not even going there. It was a mistake to allow myself to be boxed in a corner where I'm having to criticize other religions. Funny though, where are all the so called Christians in this thread?
Several other Christians have posted. If memory serves, they said you're totally wrong in your scientific arguments and they didn't find your attitude very constructive. Want me to find the posts?
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:21 PM
MyFootsZZZ MyFootsZZZ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alka Seltzer View Post
Of course Adam was 90 feet tall. A merciful God wouldn't create man just to leave him at the mercy of the first T-Rex to come along would he?
Noah must have had fun with the dinosaurs on his ark.
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:22 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 34,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Wow, so scientists can make mistakes, and therefore, atheists who practically worship the scientists as gods can actually be wrong?
You think that you being ignorant of how science works supports your case in any way? You might have heard about scientific infallibility in your church, you sure never heard it in a lab. BTW, when I worked at Bell Labs one of the research managers was a nun. Plenty of good scientists are Christian - they just don't have their fundamentalist blinders on in their field.

Quote:
I'm not even going there. It was a mistake to allow myself to be boxed in a corner where I'm having to criticize other religions. Funny though, where are all the so called Christians in this thread? You know ,these are basic accusations that any Christian could chime in on. Any Christian want to explain why Christianity is more valid than other religions? Hello? crickets... Naw, I still think this is an atheist forum.
Then go ahead and defend yours in this area. Some Christians find it possible to believe the Jesus story without believing the clearly incorrect creation story. Some just believe on faith. I never believed that, but I did believe that Moses existed, the Exodus happened, and that Moses was given the Law with no more justification, so I'm not being critical. But then I put away childish things.
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:27 PM
FinnAgain FinnAgain is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
It was a mistake to allow myself to be boxed in a corner where I'm having to criticize other religions.
It is very, very elucidative that you view it as a mistake that you honestly put forth a prototype set of criteria with which you could analyze claims for their veracity. Naturally, this isn't an "atheist forum", but a dedication to critical thinking will tend to draw those who allow themselves to engage in critical thinking and it will also tend to repel those who have a hostile relationship with critical thinking. If they don't even spend the base amount of time to learn what's going on, they may even make scientifically laughable claims while complaining about how horribly they're being persecuted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Wow, so scientists can make mistakes, and therefore, atheists who practically worship the scientists as gods can actually be wrong?
Of course individual scientists can be wrong. As it happens, we also know that science isn't wrong on a few points, such as that gravity exists or evolution is a fact. Further, I am tickled to no end when theists believe that they can dismiss something by suggesting that it's got elements of worship or religion in it. Yeah, those strawman atheists who worship scientists as gods? That's bad and the standard of badness! Those actual theists who actually do worship a being that they can neither prove or falsify? That's good and the standard of goodness!

Of course, I'm also amused that atheists can point out errors in science but still cogently argue for why science is such a useful system of inquiry, and in fact science's ability to look for refutations is one of its main strenths... and then theists pretend that if they admit the smallest of errors exist in the Bible, the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

Last edited by FinnAgain; 04-30-2012 at 02:28 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:31 PM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Miskatonic University
Posts: 10,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Wow, so scientists can make mistakes, and therefore, atheists who practically worship the scientists as gods can actually be wrong?



I'm not even going there. It was a mistake to allow myself to be boxed in a corner where I'm having to criticize other religions. Funny though, where are all the so called Christians in this thread? You know ,these are basic accusations that any Christian could chime in on. Any Christian want to explain why Christianity is more valid than other religions? Hello? crickets... Naw, I still think this is an atheist forum.
I find that Christianity is the most valid religion for me because I was raised in a Christian home, and therefore I am most comfortable with the ceremonies, rituals and rites of a Christian church.

I am quite certain I would be a perfectly happy Muslim, or Shintoist, or Hindu, or Communist if I had been born in different circumstances.
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:31 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 34,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
You should have stopped after the period at the end of your third word. Once you create a mythology around the God I described (and you seemed to agree with my post) it's easy to discount it, as it would be any religion. Which, no doubt, is why you did it. But it negates my post not one iota. Everything that comes after that first sentence of yours falls into the exact same fallacy of attempting to create rational support for Atheism by shooting holes in myth/religion.
I took your point to be that every human religion being wrong is not a proof that there is no god. That I agree with. I just riffed on one of an infinite number of alternatives.
A lot of people feel more comfortable in a universe with a purpose, and so believe in some god while not believing in any of the standard gods. Belief is not a claim to knowledge, so this isn't even logically inconsistent. Since I say that lack of belief in any god is not the same as claiming I know or can prove that there is no god, I should give believers the same respect. I'd have a problem if someone who believed in this kind of god all of a sudden thought that the god had all sorts of detailed moral rules, but for the most part people who believe in this way don't do that - so I have no objection.
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:31 PM
Alka Seltzer Alka Seltzer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Wow, so scientists can make mistakes, and therefore, atheists who practically worship the scientists as gods can actually be wrong?
Science is a process which attempts to acknowledge mistakes and correct them. You think that's a bad thing?

Have you ever considered how much science and engineering is involved in the conversation we are having right now? The thing about science is that it demonstrably works.

Last edited by Alka Seltzer; 04-30-2012 at 02:32 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:34 PM
GEEPERS GEEPERS is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Trihs View Post
"Well respected doctors"? Yeah, right. Try "quacks" instead. No, I'm not willing to spend significant amounts of time and money and travel to another continent just to visit some conference of religious frauds.
Wow, what an insult to these men and women who have worked hard to become real doctors. It's so easy to just dismiss them as quacks without even knowing a durn thing about them, huh?

Make it easy for me, what would convince you that a medical miracle has taken place? Be honest.

One of the stories presented in past conferences was the raising from the dead of
Dr. Sean George. Photos and the story here:

http://www.seangeorge.com.au/


And in much detail here:

http://www.christiantelegraph.com/issue13064.html




So here we don't have just a made up story. You have a story with the actual name of the patient and EKG tests and photos to back it up. Or perhaps you can offer a valid explanation how a man can stay dead for nearly 90 minutes and come back to life, huh?

Last edited by GEEPERS; 04-30-2012 at 02:34 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:34 PM
Alka Seltzer Alka Seltzer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ View Post
Noah must have had fun with the dinosaurs on his ark.
What sort of fun are you proposing here?
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:35 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 34,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eve View Post
How tall was Eve? If she was only, like 5'3", I can see them having problems in their relationship.
Appearing now at a drive-in near you - "Attack of the 60 Foot Eve!"

As for the problems if Eve were small - didn't you sing "Ride a cock horse to Banbury Crpss" when you were young?
Reply With Quote
  #221  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:37 PM
GEEPERS GEEPERS is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
What is it with women? You say you want a taller man, then when he's 90 feet tall, you're still not happy!


Several other Christians have posted. If memory serves, they said you're totally wrong in your scientific arguments and they didn't find your attitude very constructive. Want me to find the posts?
Oh you mean the Christians that totally agree with atheism and believe the Bible is fiction, I'm always always always wrong, and Jesus Christ never existed? Oh yea, those Christians.
Reply With Quote
  #222  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:38 PM
FinnAgain FinnAgain is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Or perhaps you can offer a valid explanation how a man can stay dead for nearly 90 minutes and come back to life, huh?
Well, damn, the first 50 times you used a God of the Gaps fallacy it wasn't persuasive. But time 51? Whoa boy!
Of course, you are correct. People coming back to life proves that Ahura Mazda is the one true God and Christians are all following the trickery of Ahrimen. Thank you for proving, beyond a doubt, the veracity of Zoroastrianism.

(Is any of this starting to sink in yet, or are you still being horribly persecuted in your mind?)

Last edited by FinnAgain; 04-30-2012 at 02:39 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #223  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:43 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 78,236
GEEPERS, I notice you much prefer registering your offense at everything to making an argument about anything. I'll ask again: what claims do you think atheists should agree with you about? And what happened to all that stuff about how we decide between the miraculous claims of Christianity, the miraculous claims of Islam, the miraculous claims of Buddhism, and the claims of all the other religions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Oh you mean the Christians that totally agree with atheism and believe the Bible is fiction, I'm always always always wrong, and Jesus Christ never existed? Oh yea, those Christians.
Launching strawman arguments against Christians and atheists at the same time! Not bad. But yes, Christians and religious believers have posted in this thread. The reason they are not rallying to your defense is that they don't want to be associated with your errors in logic and science and Biblical scholarship, not to mention your attitude, which I'm tempted to call un-Christian.
Reply With Quote
  #224  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:45 PM
FinnAgain FinnAgain is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
what happened to all that stuff about how we decide between the miraculous claims of Christianity, the miraculous claims of Islam, the miraculous claims of Buddhism, and the claims of all the other religions?
He claimed that it was somehow a trap to try to get him to elaborate on an objective, constant set of criteria which could be used to test any religious claims. Whether or not he rejected that attempt directly because he realized that the same criteria would be no kinder to Christianity than Islam is, of course, up to the reader.

Last edited by FinnAgain; 04-30-2012 at 02:46 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #225  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:46 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 34,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
I never claimed it is a sham or totally worthless. I'm claming that complete faith in the knowledge of man really doesn't offer much hope. Most treatments carry a degree of risk so it's really just a gamble. They can't even guarantee a patient that he will be 100% back to normal after a broken bone. You could have limited mobility or develop chronic pain in the joints. And if the treatment fails, the patient has absolutely no hope from an atheist doctor.

I rather be treated by a Christian doctor who prays for wisdom and a steady hand in surgery!
Christianity had over 1,000 years of unchallenged dominance in Europe. If this faith healing was so effective, you'd think it might have done some good. But life expectancy only started increasing with the advent of scientific medicine.
The human body is complex and diverse. Medicine never claims 100% cure rates. Does faith healing? Anyhow, I'm waiting for a faith healer to restore an amputated arm or leg. Then we'd have something, wouldn't we? Odd how faith doesn't produce any real miracles.
I don't care what religion my doctor is, but I sure would rather him spend his time studying the literature than praying.
I do know one religion-based medical term. When my wife was working for a drug company, she got physician reports, some of which involved the death of the patient. A fair number of these listed, for cause of death, "GOK". This stands for "God Only Knows."
Reply With Quote
  #226  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:47 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 34,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Appearing now at a drive-in near you - "Attack of the 60 Foot Eve!"

As for the problems if Eve were small - didn't you sing "Ride a cock horse to Banbury Crpss" when you were young?
Or maybe you knew the version about Bambury Cross.
Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:49 PM
GEEPERS GEEPERS is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnAgain View Post
Well, damn, the first 50 times you used a God of the Gaps fallacy it wasn't persuasive. But time 51? Whoa boy!
Of course, you are correct. People coming back to life proves that Ahura Mazda is the one true God and Christians are all following the trickery of Ahrimen. Thank you for proving, beyond a doubt, the veracity of Zoroastrianism.

(Is any of this starting to sink in yet, or are you still being horribly persecuted in your mind?)
Wow, what a brilliant copout. I don't appreciate your mockery, sir or your starch refusal to even look at the evidence. Go fester in your own decayed thinking. I have nothing more to discuss with you. You simply don't want to believe.


Thank you for upholding my extremely low opinion of atheists. Smoke and mirrors, indeed.
Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:51 PM
Meatros Meatros is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Geepers, how do you know your experience was not trickery from Ahiriman?
Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:55 PM
FinnAgain FinnAgain is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Wow, what a brilliant copout.
Hint: showing (again) your support rests on entirely fallacious grounds is not a 'copout'. I'm beginning to think you don't grok what that word means. As for the absurdity that I "refuse to even look at the evidence", aside from the obvious psychological projection, is the fact that I've looked at your 'evidence' and pointed out that even if we assume it implies a supernatural realm, that it still doesn't tell us why your God and not someone else's is the supernatural entity we should put full faith and credit into.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
I have nothing more to discuss with you.
You rather obviously haven't been discussing anything since you got here. Discussion involves give and take and at least an open desire to listen to one's conversation partner. You came here to Witness, not to discuss anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Thank you for upholding my extremely low opinion of atheists.
Bigoted views are something to be proud of, now?
Don't worry, I still judge Christians as individuals and don't hold them responsible for your behavior.

Last edited by FinnAgain; 04-30-2012 at 02:56 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:57 PM
GEEPERS GEEPERS is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
GEEPERS, I notice you much prefer registering your offense at everything to making an argument about anything. I'll ask again: what claims do you think atheists should agree with you about? And what happened to all that stuff about how we decide between the miraculous claims of Christianity, the miraculous claims of Islam, the miraculous claims of Buddhism, and the claims of all the other religions?


Launching strawman arguments against Christians and atheists at the same time! Not bad. But yes, Christians and religious believers have posted in this thread. The reason they are not rallying to your defense is that they don't want to be associated with your errors in logic and science and Biblical scholarship, not to mention your attitude, which I'm tempted to call un-Christian.
Hey you are started this thread to ( lol) educate me and look what it has become. Another attack on GEEPERS. GEEPERS, who can NEVER BE RIGHT about anything!!! Yes, cmon Christians, pick up a stone, and join in the fun!


I'm done playing and being fodder for your own ignorant rants. Nothing you have said as changed my subterrean opinion of atheists as arrogant, cold hearted, rude, and inhabiting a stubborn refusal to even examine evidence in favor of Christianity.

But thank you for proving the Bible - Matthew 10:22

Last edited by GEEPERS; 04-30-2012 at 03:00 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:00 PM
FinnAgain FinnAgain is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
GEEPERS, who can NEVER BE RIGHT about anything!!!
Hey, you're allowed to be right whenever you care to start.
You just haven't taken advantage of the option yet.
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:02 PM
Revtim Revtim is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
I'm done playing and being fodder for your own ignorant rants. Nothing you have said as changed my subterrean opinion of atheists as arrogant, cold hearted, rude, and inhabiting a stubborn refusal to even examine evidence in favor of Christianity.
Just FYI, many of us atheists were raised as Christians, and held genuine Christian beliefs before becoming atheists.
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:02 PM
Meatros Meatros is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Hey you are started this thread to ( lol) educate me and look what it has become. Another attack on GEEPERS. GEEPERS, who can NEVER BE RIGHT about anything!!! Yes, cmon Christians, pick up a stone, and join in the fun!


I'm done playing and being fodder for your own ignorant rants. Nothing you have said as changed my subterrean opinion of atheists as arrogant, cold hearted, rude, and inhabiting a stubborn refusal to even examine evidence in favor of Christianity.

But thank you for proving the Bible - Matthew 10:22
Quite the persecution complex you have.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Questioning your belief is not the same thing as hating you. Christians who have been tortured, killed, and actually hated would resent your comparison.
Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:08 PM
GEEPERS GEEPERS is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnAgain View Post
Hey, you're allowed to be right whenever you care to start.
You just haven't taken advantage of the option yet.
Ok, you can now go back to sticking your head in the sand. I'm sorry if I rattled your delusions with you know, actual evidence. The fact that atheists like you even refuse to admit what it would take to prove God's existance shows that I am quite right.

In a nutshell

atheism = stupidity
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:09 PM
Revtim Revtim is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revtim View Post
Just FYI, many of us atheists were raised as Christians, and held genuine Christian beliefs before becoming atheists.
(and other faiths too, of course)
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:10 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 78,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
GEEPERS, who can NEVER BE RIGHT about anything!!! Yes, cmon Christians, pick up a stone, and join in the fun!


I'm done playing and being fodder for your own ignorant rants. Nothing you have said as changed my subterrean opinion of atheists as arrogant, cold hearted, rude, and inhabiting a stubborn refusal to even examine evidence in favor of Christianity.
What evidence? You won't post any. Well, other than radios turning and off.
Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:12 PM
FinnAgain FinnAgain is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
I'm sorry if I rattled your delusions with you know, actual evidence.
You go on believing that. Of course, you admitted that you really only have personal evidence which is the same as for every single other competing religion on the globe. That was a trap to get you to actually put forward a valid epistemological analysis, naturally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
The fact that atheists like you even refuse to admit what it would take to prove God's existance shows that I am quite right.
I know that you don't understand at all, but this is by far the weakest of your God of the Gaps fallacies. Further, you're not being... accurate. I've pointed out the hurdles inherent in proving any 'supernatural' realm let alone any deities and gave one example of a way that a supernatural being could begin to make its word known to humanity. You, on the other hand, immediately upon realizing that your objections to other religions can be applied by outsiders to your own religion, tried to change the subject.
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:44 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 78,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Another attack on GEEPERS. GEEPERS, who can NEVER BE RIGHT about anything!!! Yes, cmon Christians, pick up a stone, and join in the fun!
I hope this is the apex of this melodrama. They think you're wrong in an argument - and you are wrong, without exception - they're not stoning you to death. I realize the thread mentioned you by name (I wanted you to read it and respond), but very little of this is about you specifically. I think every single mistake you've made here has been made by other posters in the past, and they've received the same treatment. Nobody's doing this because they want to persecute GEEPERS the Christian. They're doing it because more or less everything you've said about atheism, any kind of science, and even the Bible have been incorrect. That's not a personal attack no matter how much you dislike it. It's factual. There's been an actual effort to inform you here, and not only have you ignored it and attacked everybody else's honesty, you've refused to make any kind of complete argument while complaining that everybody else is mean and dishing out plenty of self-pity. That's the explanation for the response you're getting.
Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old 04-30-2012, 04:43 PM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Do you personally verify every single scientific finding to prove that it is true? If not, then you are practicing "faith" in science.
Nonsense. Science has a long history of being right (and if it isn't right of correcting itself), just as religion has a long history of being wrong. We are communicating right now on a system devised using scientific knowledge after all. It's not faith to trust something that has proven itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm
Here's another attempt to stay on topic: GEEPERS, what do you have to say about all the posters that claimed they weren't angry at God because there was no God to be angry with in the first place? Do you think they were sincere?
No I don't. The fact that atheists are extremely passionate and relentless in attacking Christianity and the Bible suggests otherwise.
What it suggests is that atheists have spent a lifetime having religion shoved in their face and often forced upon them; and on a mostly American & European board, it has mostly been Christians who have done it. Atheism is reactive; it only exists as a defined term in the first place because of all the religious people who claim their pet delusions are true and try to force everyone else to go along with their fantasy; people don't believe in goblins & fairys don't talk about agoblinism or afairyism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Wow, so scientists can make mistakes, and therefore, atheists who practically worship the scientists as gods can actually be wrong?
Of course scientists can be wrong; they normally start out wrong after all. But they correct their mistakes as the evidence comes in; it's called scientific progress. As opposed to religion, which is always wrong and refuses to correct its mistakes - just as you are doing right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Wow, what an insult to these men and women who have worked hard to become real doctors. It's so easy to just dismiss them as quacks without even knowing a durn thing about them, huh?
I know that they are faith healers or believe in faith healing, which makes them either frauds or deluded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
Make it easy for me, what would convince you that a medical miracle has taken place? Be honest.
For starters, large amounts of scientific evidence that someone was repaired in a way that biology and modern medicine can't duplicate, like regrowing a limb. And it would have to be evidence that doesn't mysteriously vanish whenever a skeptic shows up. And it would have to be gone over by experts in fraud as well.

Note that such a "miracle" still wouldn't be evidence of your logically impossible bronze age sky god. There are a near infinite number of alternative explanations, most of which are more plausible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
So here we don't have just a made up story. You have a story with the actual name of the patient and EKG tests and photos to back it up. Or perhaps you can offer a valid explanation how a man can stay dead for nearly 90 minutes and come back to life, huh?
A poor definition of the word "dead", that's how.
Reply With Quote
  #240  
Old 04-30-2012, 04:46 PM
FinnAgain FinnAgain is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Hell. I bet that any random half dozen atheists/agnostics who've posted in this thread could produce far better Devil's Advocate versions of apologia for any random half dozen religions than GEEPER's done. Hell, take a random dozen of us and have us argue everything from Catholicism and Orthodox Judaism to Hinduism and on to Scientology, and we'd still produce better arguments. Because at least we'd be producing actual arguments and not simply readying a good leap to get back up on the cross after we change the subject to something new.
Reply With Quote
  #241  
Old 04-30-2012, 04:53 PM
gamerunknown gamerunknown is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFidelius
I find that Christianity is the most valid religion for me because I was raised in a Christian home, and therefore I am most comfortable with the ceremonies, rituals and rites of a Christian church.
While I do sometimes wonder at whether people question the fortuity of being born into the correct religion while everyone else on the planet will burn for eternity, I consider some cultural hangups of my own to be absolute. For instance, if I were born to an authoritarian family in the USSR, I'd probably support capital punishment and think I did so for fairly objective reasons.

Last edited by gamerunknown; 04-30-2012 at 04:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 04-30-2012, 05:50 PM
GEEPERS GEEPERS is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
What evidence? You won't post any. Well, other than radios turning and off.
You have insulted me and my friends by suggesting our supernatural experiences are merely lies. Furthermore, I go to the effort of posting a specific example of divine healing where a man was raised from the dead with detailed and documented support. It is rejected immediately without any investigation on the atheist's part. That's intellectual dishonesty.

Refusal to accept evidence <> no evidence.

Likewise, you have failed miserably to demonstrate one single point where I'm wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 04-30-2012, 05:56 PM
gamerunknown gamerunknown is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS
You have insulted me and my friends by suggesting our supernatural experiences are merely lies.
Do you think Muhammad flew to heaven on a winged horse while alive?
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:00 PM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
You have insulted me and my friends by suggesting our supernatural experiences are merely lies.
They could be delusions instead. And if you find reality insulting, too bad.
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:13 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 34,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Trihs View Post
They could be delusions instead. And if you find reality insulting, too bad.
I'm betting the friends are laughing their asses off at what this guy will believe.
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:35 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 8,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
You have insulted me and my friends by suggesting our supernatural experiences are merely lies.
This is false. It was suggested that it could have been lies, or human error, or a hoax perpetrated by a third party, or some weird yet natural occurrence.

However, you have insulted atheists by claiming that we are all liars and that we all hate Christianity and God. You don't think it's possible that a single atheist actually, genuinely believes what he/she says he/she believes?
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:43 PM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
The hatred is very strong with this one.

You hate atheists, don't you GEEPERS? Or is hate too weak a word for your feelings?
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:49 PM
sisu sisu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEPERS View Post
I'm not even going there. It was a mistake to allow myself to be boxed in a corner where I'm having to criticize other religions. Funny though, where are all the so called Christians in this thread?
We're here!

Like I said earlier Geepers you [and people like you] do more to turn people atheist than anything.

Reminder to me this is not the Pit...................
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:33 PM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Miskatonic University
Posts: 10,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisu View Post
We're here!

Like I said earlier Geepers you [and people like you] do more to turn people atheist than anything.

Reminder to me this is not the Pit...................
Doesn't count, sisu. A self-described "Christian" who does not follow the law as interpreted by GEEPERS is worse than an atheist. An apostate or heretic is a greater sinner than an infidel. Keep that in mind as you are burning in the Lake of Fire, Mr. Smarty-Pants.
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:44 PM
sisu sisu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFidelius View Post
Doesn't count, sisu. A self-described "Christian" who does not follow the law as interpreted by GEEPERS is worse than an atheist. An apostate or heretic is a greater sinner than an infidel. Keep that in mind as you are burning in the Lake of Fire, Mr. Smarty-Pants.
Ah yes the moment ANY man or woman says they have all the answers is the moment you know they are lying [or deluded].
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.