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  #51  
Old 05-03-2012, 05:29 AM
Latro Latro is offline
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
The Jewish Temple was not a church. It was the Jewish Temple.
The word "church" comes from greek kyriakon doma. the Lord's house.
What else is the Temple as the Lord's house? Even more so as there was only 1 Temple.

There being only one church also means it was at the same time THE church.
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  #52  
Old 05-03-2012, 02:57 PM
Alan Smithee Alan Smithee is offline
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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Yeah, technically, but Christianity is so ubiquitous that it is not uncommon for people to use Church to refer to the same basic concept in other religions.

Also, was "Temple" used like "Church"? Did it also stand for the religious political hierarchy, as dngnb8 is clearly using the term? And if not, what would be the appropriate term?
It may be used that way, but it's still wrong. If I asked someone "Where do you go to church?" (a question I'm very unlikely to ask, but nevertheless) and they responded "I don't; I'm Jewish. I go to synagogue at Temple B'nai Brith," I wouldn't think it odd, unusual, or pedantic at all. In fact, if they just said "At Temple B'nai Brith," I'd think they were being a bit snarky by pointedly not correcting me.

And to use the term "Church" with a capital letter, which always refers to the Christian religious establishment, often as distinct from other establishments, when referring specifically to the Jewish religious hierarchy is especially jarring.

(Note that using "church" as a synecdoche for all religious hierarchies and institutions, as in "separation of church and state" is different than using calling a specific non-Christian institution a church (or the Church).

As for your second question, the answer is yes. It wouldn't be used that way of modern Judaism, and you wouldn't use Temple to refer to the mass of Jewish people (so you wouldn't say "members of the Temple" to mean regular Jews) but as a synecdoche for the Temple hierarchy associated with the Sadducees, yes you would.
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  #53  
Old 05-03-2012, 03:02 PM
Alan Smithee Alan Smithee is offline
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Originally Posted by Latro View Post
The word "church" comes from greek kyriakon doma. the Lord's house.
What else is the Temple as the Lord's house? Even more so as there was only 1 Temple.

There being only one church also means it was at the same time THE church.
Where the word comes from has little to do with how it's used today. The word "doctor" comes from the Latin meaning "teacher" but you wouldn't introduce yourself as "Doctor Latro" because you work in an elementary school.
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  #54  
Old 05-03-2012, 03:06 PM
kayaker kayaker is online now
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Any documentation for Mary doin a raspberry on baby Jesus' belly and asking, "whose the Messiah?"
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  #55  
Old 05-03-2012, 03:20 PM
Latro Latro is offline
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Where the word comes from has little to do with how it's used today.
As used in this thread;

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
On a cynical level, any church is too invested in itself to declare anyone the Messiah, even with proof.
"church" is certainly synonym with "temple".
You may be right in that normal parlance we now have distinct meanings for temple, synagogue, mosque and what have you. But for the sake of the discussion they mean the same.
Especially since in those times there were no churches, mosques or synangogues, just temples (and for the Jews just one single temple). Which functioned the same as our 'modern' churches, mosques and synagogues.

Last edited by Latro; 05-03-2012 at 03:20 PM..
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  #56  
Old 05-03-2012, 03:32 PM
Yllaria Yllaria is online now
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Originally Posted by kayaker View Post
I'm scratching a dog's belly right now saying, "Who's the Messiah?", and from her response, I'm pretty sure she thinks she is.
I HAVE to try that.
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  #57  
Old 05-03-2012, 03:57 PM
gamerunknown gamerunknown is offline
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Originally Posted by Yllaria
I HAVE to try that.
What'll you do when said dog barks out "L Ron!"?
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  #58  
Old 05-03-2012, 04:29 PM
Alan Smithee Alan Smithee is offline
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Originally Posted by Latro View Post
As used in this thread;



"church" is certainly synonym with "temple".
You may be right in that normal parlance we now have distinct meanings for temple, synagogue, mosque and what have you. But for the sake of the discussion they mean the same.
Especially since in those times there were no churches, mosques or synangogues, just temples (and for the Jews just one single temple). Which functioned the same as our 'modern' churches, mosques and synagogues.
How it's used in this thread is wrong, and to insist on using a Christian term for a Jewish institution after being informed of the error is borderline anti-Semitism.
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  #59  
Old 05-03-2012, 04:45 PM
Alan Smithee Alan Smithee is offline
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
How it's used in this thread is wrong, and to insist on using a Christian term for a Jewish institution after being informed of the error is borderline anti-Semitism.
Let me elaborate, since I don't think you're actually being anti-Semitic. It's not that different from insisting on saying "England" to refer to the United Kingdom after being told that it's wrong. That's not exactly anti-British, but it is showing a stubbornness and insensitivity about something that has clear political/personal/ethnic significance and about which you are demonstrably wrong. The fact that our societies have a real history of anti-Semitism and that the topic is one that has often been used to support anti-Semitism makes it all the more important to get the terms right. There are people who teach that the Jews (and especially the Jews associated with the Temple in the time of Jesus) are or were literally demons or followers of Satan who usurped the role of the true non-Jewish people of God. Such people often use terminological tricks and innovations to make their "case" (such as it is). I certainly don't think you're one of those people, Latro, but surely you can see why this si significant.
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  #60  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:21 AM
Latro Latro is offline
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
How it's used in this thread is wrong, and to insist on using a Christian term for a Jewish institution after being informed of the error is borderline anti-Semitism.
Talk about borderline...
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