Let's play "Spot the Sociopath"

[Mosier]

I can't think of anyone I suspect is incapable of feeling empathy. Some people seem to be able to overcome that feeling for the purpose of personal gain, but I honestly think that hardly anyone is a true psychopath.

[The Second Stone]

Originally Posted by Bricker

Oh, good grief.

Edwards is a guy who cheated on his wife. If that's sociopathy, you've redefined the term into uselessness.

All of your examples are absurd, but Edwards? That so absurd it drew me out to defend him, and I am no Edwards fan.

It was worth it to get you to defend him. I feel a bit like a sociopath now.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by The Second Stone

Romney changes his positions more often than a nymphomaniac acrobat.

Which has what to do with sociopathy again?

He made his fortune dismantling companies, depriving the workers of their pensions and shipping the jobs overseas.

Factually incorrect, but let's put that aside. Is it your contention that no company should ever close shop and set up operations overseas?

As for Democrats who are/were sociopaths, Lyndon Johnson comes to mind. As does John Edwards.

Forget about LBJ for the moment, but what is the evidence against Edwards? I mean, I intensely dislike the guy, but that doesn't make him a sociopath.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by lavenderviolet

The thing is, intelligent psychopaths are great at observing human behavior and then mimicking it to deceive others into thinking they have normal empathy and emotions.
It's very easy to believe that a clever psychopath would take notice of how people like you
assume that Democrats care about other people and use it to earn your trust. Similarly, I believe that many psychopaths are smart enough to see that people tend to trust people that proclaim religious belief must be good people and then use it against people.

As for my nomination, I wouldn't be hugely surprised to find out that Martha Stewart is a psychopath. It's just a theory...I don't even particularly dislike her. It's just that based on what I've heard about her, she doesn't seem to have much warmth or empathy for other people.

Right. As long as we are throwing out wild-assed conjecture, I would nominate many more Democrats than Republicans based on these weak criteria. Let me give you a few examples including former governor Louisiana Edwin Edwards and former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich. Also include mayor Buddy Cianci who is the former mayor of Providence Rhode Island. All of those were actually convicted of criminal behavior and are doing federal time for it yet none of them show any signs of remorse except for the fact that they were caught once again. I am an independent but Democrats always seemed liike the go-to people for smaller scale corruption for pure personal gain that attracts real sociopaths.

[Ulfreida]

I guess I am the only person reading this thread who thought, what is the clinical definition of a sociopath and how can you tell whether someone you've never met is one?

But in case someone else comes along as unsure about the footing of the OP's question as I am, I offer the following, from the Mayo Clinic:

<quote>Antisocial personality disorder is a type of chronic mental illness in which a person's ways of thinking, perceiving situations and relating to others are abnormal — and destructive.

People with antisocial personality disorder typically have no regard for right and wrong. They may often violate the law and the rights of others, landing in frequent trouble or conflict. They may lie, behave violently, and have drug and alcohol problems. And people with antisocial personality disorder may not be able to fulfill responsibilities to family, work or school.

Antisocial personality disorder is sometimes known as sociopathic personality disorder. A sociopath is a particularly severe form of antisocial personality disorder.

Antisocial personality disorder symptoms may include:

Disregard for right and wrong
Persistent lying or deceit
Using charm or wit to manipulate others
Recurring difficulties with the law
Repeatedly violating the rights of others
Child abuse or neglect
Intimidation of others
Aggressive or violent behavior
Lack of remorse about harming others
Impulsive behavior
Agitation
Poor or abusive relationships
Irresponsible work behavior</quote>

Based on the above, I don't think Romney qualifies at all. Being a mere political liar with no empathy outside one's own class isn't enough. Cheney is more likely as he seems chillingly inhuman; there's a reason why the left likens him to Darth Vader. I guess he would be a sociopath with impulse control. Edwards, dunno. It is hard for me to believe he is more than a mere selfish dickhead. His story is so small and squalid. Cheney has evil grandeur.

[living_in_hell]

Originally Posted by even sven

I think it's the relatively rare sociopath who is organized enough to have that sort of long-term success. Sociopathy is associated with an inability to grasp long-term consequences and general laziness. Most of the sociopaths I know have have sought classic parasitic lifestyles, usually using a mix of charm and lies to convince women to support them while they screwed around, pursued addictions, and figured out ways to scam just enough money to obtain whatever caught their eye that day. It must be a relatively small subset that finds the demands of celebrity worth it.

Interesting. I found myself thinking about narcissism a lot when I was trying to answer the OP, and saw a lot of overlap in your post. The "commitment to longevity" component doesn't quite match up, however.

[palacheck]

Ryan O'Neal.

Watch Ryan and Tatum: The O'Neals. Oh and read anything about his past and the state of his "family". You get the feeling that this guy is either a major narcissist or an outright psychopath.

Alternatively, just watch this clip of a "therapy" session between Ryan and his daughter Tatum or this clip of Ryan essentially blaming his daughter for the death of Farrah Fawcett in front of millions of people.

IMO you can see the mask slip several times throughout each interview.

[Boyo Jim]

Originally Posted by VarlosZ

I guess it's not totally crazy to say Gingrich, though it's still really unlikely, and we don't have enough info to make any kind of judgment, and in any event he strikes me as more of a narcissist.

Don't get why anyone would say Romney. Being stiff and awkward in front of the press ≠ sociopath, and his behavior as a leader in the Mormon church is anything but sociopathic. If anything, he seems like an involved and considerate person on a personal level.

Not that I'm an expert, but Romney strikes me as far more likely to be a sociopath than Gingrich. Romney is a chronic liar, denying his own past in a relentless pursuit of the presidency. Gingrich may be delusional, but that's something else IMO. Santorum is probably too honest for his own good, as he just couldn't seem to avoid saying aloud a lot about his crazy beliefs.

[kayaker]

A sociopath worthy of isolated mention in a thread like this needs to be so good at hiding their pathology that nobody reall knows what's up. Mary Lou Retton fits the bill.

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by lavenderviolet

The thing is, intelligent psychopaths are great at observing human behavior and then mimicking it to deceive others into thinking they have normal empathy and emotions.
It's very easy to believe that a clever psychopath would take notice of how people like you
assume that Democrats care about other people and use it to earn your trust.

Maybe. From what I recall, one hallmark of psychopathic behavior is that they never keep up that facade. Yes, they act nice in order to suck people into trusting them; then they use that trust to exploit their victim, discard the victim and move on. It's a feeding cycle more or less; deceive-exploit-discard-deceive-exploit-discard.

A psychopath could probably do OK exploiting groups like homosexuals, who are repeatedly fed promises to get them to vote for Democrats and then backstabbed once the politicians in question gets into office. Still, I'd think it would be much easier for them to function among the Republicans since the Republicans are ideologically psychopathic. It's got to be easier for an actual psychopath to hide among a group of people who insist on acting & talking like one themselves. Sort of like being a serial killer in a war zone; who's going to notice one more corpse? The best way to hide a red fish is among a bunch of other red fish.

Originally Posted by Mosier

Some people seem to be able to overcome that feeling for the purpose of personal gain, but I honestly think that hardly anyone is a true psychopath.

A few percent of the population qualifies IIRC; more in prisons, naturally. Let's see; according to Wiki one estimate is around 1-2% of the population.

Psychologist Robert Hare has been a particular champion of the concept of psychopathy, based largely on a characterization introduced by Hervey Cleckley mid 20th century. The Hare Psychopathy Checklist is a standard ratings tool most often used in forensic settings to assess psychopathy. A study by Hare and colleagues suggested that one to two percent of the US population score high enough on a screening version of the scale to be considered potential psychopaths.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by al27052

His inability to empathize is easy to understand as a natural result of his upbringing.

Someone who was truly raised to not have empathy I would still classify as a sociopath. Sociopathy is a personality disorder. It's not a mental deficiency. It very well can be influenced by upbringing.

Whether this applies to Romney, I don't know.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Ulfreida

Antisocial personality disorder symptoms may include:

Disregard for right and wrong
Persistent lying or deceit
Using charm or wit to manipulate others
Recurring difficulties with the law
Repeatedly violating the rights of others
Child abuse or neglect
Intimidation of others
Aggressive or violent behavior
Lack of remorse about harming others
Impulsive behavior
Agitation
Poor or abusive relationships
Irresponsible work behavior

Emphasis added. Well, that rules out Romney right there!

[brazil84]

Originally Posted by lavenderviolet

The thing is, intelligent psychopaths are great at observing human behavior and then mimicking it to deceive others into thinking they have normal empathy and emotions.
It's very easy to believe that a clever psychopath would take notice of how people like you
assume that Democrats care about other people and use it to earn your trust. Similarly, I believe that many psychopaths are smart enough to see that people tend to trust people that proclaim religious belief must be good people and then use it against people.

I agree, but I would say it depends mostly on what is the reigning party and ideology. A (high functioning) sociopath in New York City would probably join the Democratic Party; a (high functioning) sociopath in Boise would probably join the Republican Party. A (high functioning) sociopath in Muskogee would probably be careful to go to church every week. A (high functioning) sociopath in Russia in the 1920s would have joined the Communist Party.

In any event, a (high functioning) sociopath would probably pretend to hold fast to whatever the popular beliefs are. If he lived on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, you can bet he will profess support for gay marriage, environmentalism, social justice, and so forth.

[JoelUpchurch]

Originally Posted by TruCelt

I agree with both Cheney and Gingrich.

I actually find it unlikely that either Cheney or Gingrich are Sociopaths. Actually the politician I think is most likely to be a sociopath is Bill Clinton. I never got the feeling that anything he said was derived from any inner conviction rather than a calculation or political advantage. Also his treatment of women seems to display classic sociopathic behavior.

Cheney seems to be totally uninterested in hiding his inner nature and Gingrich often seems far too forthcoming about his ideas. The fact that you hate and detest their ideas doesn't make them sociopaths. A person who never says anything you disagree with is a far more likely sociopath.

Broadcast News:

Aaron Altman: What do you think the Devil is going to look like if he's around? Nobody is going to be taken in if he has a long, red, pointy tail. No. I'm semi-serious here. He will look attractive and he will be nice and helpful and he will get a job where he influences a great God-fearing nation and he will never do an evil thing... he will just bit by little bit lower standards where they are important. Just coax along flash over substance... Just a tiny bit. And he will talk about all of us really being salesmen. And he'll get all the great women.

Of course, this doesn't mean that a sociopath might not make a decent president. Carter was a honest, earnest man and our worst president in recent memory. It might be an interesting discussion about whether a non-sociopath can actually be elected president anymore.

[Mosier]

Originally Posted by JoelUpchurch

I actually find it unlikely that either Cheney or Gingrich are Sociopaths. Actually the politician I think is most likely to be a sociopath is Bill Clinton. I never got the feeling that anything he said was derived from any inner conviction rather than a calculation or political advantage. Also his treatment of women seems to display classic sociopathic behavior.

What about it displays classic sociopathic behavior?

Of course, this doesn't mean that a sociopath might not make a decent president. Carter was a honest, earnest man and our worst president in recent memory. It might be an interesting discussion about whether a non-sociopath can actually be elected president anymore.

I think actual honest-to-goodness sociopaths only succeed in fooling people for short periods of time. The more scrutiny on them, the worse they function. This is why they have a hard time keeping a job, or obeying the law, or having long term friendships or relationships. I seriously doubt a sociopath could end up in the presidency.

[DearestDane]

Max Mosley, mostly based on the completely erratic way that he led the FIA.

Of those politicians I have seen mentioned, Rod Blagojevich strikes me as a very obvious example.

Did anyone mention Richard Nixon?

[Imago]

Originally Posted by al27052

I think there are several confounding variables:

1. Extremely successful/wealthy people tend to forget what it was like to be poor/young/etc.. They have much more trouble empathizing with the downtrodden because they simply can't remember.

2. People who grow up rich, like Romney, never knew what it was like to be poor or have bad luck in life. They have even MORE trouble empathizing with the downtrodden.


3. People who are very successful for many years can start to assume that their success is all about skill and hard work, and has nothing to do with luck. This leads them to start assuming that people who AREN'T successful are 100% at fault.


4. The kind of ambition that lets you become a president/CEO just doesn't leave a lot of time or room for self-reflection or self-flagellation. Broadly put, it's hard to be Buddha AND Bill Gates in the same lifetime.


True sociopaths can actually be fairly successful in the world. John Wayne Gacy, Dennis Rader, and Andrei Chikatilo come to mind. Yes, most serial killers are so obviously weird that noone wants to marry them, give them good jobs, be friends with them, etc., but that's not always true. The thing that takes these guys down is their habit of killing, not the fact, specifically, that they are sociopaths.

It stands to reason that sociopaths who aren't natural serial killers could, in some cases, rise quite high in society. Since they aren't spending time and energy on planning murders, hiding the bodies, fantasizing about murder, etc., they have time for other things, like their careers.

However, I doubt Romney or even Cheney are actually sociopaths. Romney seems like a typical CEO type, with a side of Good Mormon Boy, and a heavy dash of Born-Rich. Not a bad guy, at heart, but not, by upbringing, able to really empathize with minorities or the poor.

Cheney just seems greedy, ambitious, and perhaps a little fanatical. I imagine he has a conscience, and would feel bad if he hurt someone that he loved, like his daughter, but I imagine the group of people he would feel bad about hurting is very small. Not really a sociopath, though, just lucky and very, very serious about money. He also seems to be in love with the NeoCon agenda.

Psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made. You've explained quite well why Romney and Cheney aren't likely to be psychopaths- but you've pretty much outlined exactly why Romney is a sociopath.

[Imago]

Originally Posted by clairobscur

Could a sociopath be antisemite as in having negative feelings about Jews? Wouldn't a sociopath have mostly no feeling at all about fellow humans?

There is no neurological disorder that results in "I have no emotions". A sociopath would have no feeling at all about fellow humans if said sociopath already had everything they wanted. When they don't get what they want, they start looking for someone to blame.

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by Imago

There is no neurological disorder that results in "I have no emotions".

Yes there are such disorders (and brain damage), and at one point such people were called "sociopaths"; as someone said above though I think the definition has been changed since then. Such people are unlikely to become leaders in politics or anything else however, as they don't function very well in society. An emotionless person can't even win a card game, much less rise to power; they by definition don't care if they win so they don't try. And they don't hide what they are because, again, they are incapable of caring. People can also lose some emotions not all; I recall reading of a brain damaged woman who was incapable of fear towards other people, and as a result was incapable of functioning in society without being taken advantage of.

[JoelUpchurch]

Originally Posted by Mosier

What about it displays classic sociopathic behavior?

Going by the list in #55

Disregard for right and wrong
Persistent lying or deceit
Using charm or wit to manipulate others
Repeatedly violating the rights of others
Lack of remorse about harming others
Impulsive behavior
Poor or abusive relationships
Irresponsible work behavior

All of these would fit Bill Clinton pretty well. Too many people, even Gingrich were taken in by his charm. The way he trashed the women he slept with when they came forward is classic sociopath behavior. Most politicians just don't have that kind of chutzpah.

I think actual honest-to-goodness sociopaths only succeed in fooling people for short periods of time. The more scrutiny on them, the worse they function. This is why they have a hard time keeping a job, or obeying the law, or having long term friendships or relationships. I seriously doubt a sociopath could end up in the presidency.

You are only describing stupid sociopaths. A saying I use, "Stupid sociopaths go to prison. Smart sociopaths go to law school." It is interesting to note that Romney and Obama both graduated from Harvard Law.

[The Second Stone]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Which has what to do with sociopathy again?


Factually incorrect, but let's put that aside. Is it your contention that no company should ever close shop and set up operations overseas?




Forget about LBJ for the moment, but what is the evidence against Edwards? I mean, I intensely dislike the guy, but that doesn't make him a sociopath.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...eys-background

Look, nymphomanic acrobats aren't sociopaths. I'm sorry that you misunderstood. I am all in favor of n.a.'s. They do not intersect with sociopaths in a Venn diagram. I was referring to the frequency with which Willard Romney changes what he says to please the crowd he is in front of. Yeah, politicians change their positions a lot. Churchill was a conservative, liberal and then conservative again. Kerry voted for/against things in committee that he later voted the other way on the floor. I've seen a lot of flip-flopping in my life observing politics. But Rmoney can take several conflicting positions in a single afternoon. He makes Dick Nixon look absolutely principled by comparison.

You are entitled to believe that your opinion constitutes facts. But that dosn't make it so. http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...eys-background http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2...e-things-over/ Newt isn't often correct, but he was absolutely correct in calling Rmoney a vulture capitalist. While he may not have exclusively feasted off the carcasses of companies that Bain brought down, there were plenty that they destroyed. You'll get to meet the workers of those companies this fall during the commercials, who will give testimonials on how their companies were destroyed along with their pensions. That he likes firing people is obvious. That he is so clueless as to say it out loud indicates a complete inability to empathize. The one time he should probably keep the truth to himself, he blurts it out like enjoying the misery of the less fortunate is a badge of power.

As for Edwards, a man that cheats on his wife is a candidate for sociopath. When he convinces rich allies to give hundreds of thousands to keep it from coming out, all the while running for president and denying patrimony of a child strikes me as sociopathic. Unlike you and Bricker, I despise his self-centered sociopathic tendencies. I rather like his politics. I can despise someone's politics, but like them as a person. WF Buckley was a lot of fun and likeable, even when gasbagging. I was, of course, unaware, that your personal dislike for a person was a criteria for sociopathy.

[scratch llll]

Originally Posted by Bricker

All of your examples are absurd, but Edwards? That so absurd it drew me out to defend him, and I am no Edwards fan.

I don't think it is. He didn't just cheat on his wife. He cheated on his dying wife. Just cheating on your wife could make one an uncaring narcissist but to do so on a woman who has stuck by your side through tough campaigns and loved you and then when needed most is cast aside like stale bread is unfeeling to a vast degree.

Accusing Obama is absurd.

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by Imago

Psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made. You've explained quite well why Romney and Cheney aren't likely to be psychopaths- but you've pretty much outlined exactly why Romney is a sociopath.

I am not following. You seem to have contradicted yourself.

The most current example of a politician that I would call a true sociopath is former governor Rod Blagojevich of Illinois (D). The man has no conscience other than his own misguided ambitions and he is thankfully doing a long federal sentence for it now. You would think he would have taken a hint from all the other Illinois politicians doing time for the same type of behavior but he took it to a new level of low by trying to sell Obama's vacated Senate seat to the highest bidder as part of his own grand plan to eventually become President himself.

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by DearestDane

Max Mosley

:::::hijack:::: I often walk past a law office entitled "Law Offices of Mosley and Ellis". If I were a sociopath, I'd sneak there late at night and rearrange the letters to say "Law Offices of Mos Eisley".

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by JoelUpchurch

All of these would fit Bill Clinton pretty well. Too many people, even Gingrich were taken in by his charm. The way he trashed the women he slept with when they came forward is classic sociopath behavior.

Hardly; there's nothing particularly sociopathic about "trashing" women who are being used as weapons by your political enemies. And why aren't the women sociopathic for doing so? If one is sociopathic, then so is the other.

[The Second Stone]

Originally Posted by scratch llll

I don't think it is. He didn't just cheat on his wife. He cheated on his dying wife. Just cheating on your wife could make one an uncaring narcissist but to do so on a woman who has stuck by your side through tough campaigns and loved you and then when needed most is cast aside like stale bread is unfeeling to a vast degree.

Accusing Obama is absurd.

Here's the thing, contrary to my own opinion about Edwards, but I don't think a person cheating on a spouse, even a dying spouse, is necessarily a sociopath. It's something some people do. But the whole way it came out with the money buying cover up, whether legal or not (I suspect not) and they very lavish lifestyle he lives suggests lack of empathy and just large scale assholeness.

Contrast that with Steve Jobs (good candidate for sociopath) and he lived a modest lifestyle. Not quite as modest as Warren Buffet. I think the whole picture matters.

[JoelUpchurch]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

Hardly; there's nothing particularly sociopathic about "trashing" women who are being used as weapons by your political enemies. And why aren't the women sociopathic for doing so? If one is sociopathic, then so is the other.

So your position is that Bill Clinton isn't a sociopath but every woman that he had sex with is?

[Shagnasty]

Originally Posted by JoelUpchurch

So your position is that Bill Clinton isn't a sociopath but every woman that he had sex with is?

That isn't what he said. He said it would be a double standard to call one a sociopath and not the other because it wasn't a victim-prey relationship. I am sure Monica Lewinsky and Jennifer Flowers among others had their own reasons for wanting to blow or sleep with a powerful man.

[Blank Slate]

This thread has convinced me that most politicians are dicks and pretty much none of them are actual sociopaths (unless, of course, one doesn't like them.)

[grude]

Gene Simmons

Saw an episode or two of his reality show, he doesn't seem to think like a normal person would. I mean before he would take his kid to the zoo he'd first consult with his PR people, they advise instead to go ice skating so he will do that. I have never seen show any genuine warmth or emotion towards his wife or children. I don't know if he is a sociopath but something is off about the guy, and he is one of the few people I'd feel uncomfortable being around.

[Nava]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

Maybe. From what I recall, one hallmark of psychopathic behavior is that they never keep up that facade. Yes, they act nice in order to suck people into trusting them; then they use that trust to exploit their victim, discard the victim and move on. It's a feeding cycle more or less; deceive-exploit-discard-deceive-exploit-discard.

Yes, but the one I (think I) know was superb at only biting the chosen victim du jour: everybody else who knew him would respond to "ow! He just backstabbed me!" with "oh no way, he's such a nice guy!"... until it was their time to find a stiletto coming out of their chest and be the recipients of "oh no way, he's such a nice guy!"

Dude could have sold fridges to the Devil and was as smart at hiding his tracks as he was at figuring out what made people tick. And while he would get bored easily and that would lead to job switches, the longest he stayed at one was 30 years (he stayed in it after his official retirement, getting paid under the table and having access to a lot of easily-manipulable people) - the second-longest was 10; he never got fired, always quit for greener pastures. Those are both longer than I've stayed in any given job or project.

[JoelUpchurch]

Originally Posted by Shagnasty

That isn't what he said. He said it would be a double standard to call one a sociopath and not the other because it wasn't a victim-prey relationship. I am sure Monica Lewinsky and Jennifer Flowers among others had their own reasons for wanting to blow or sleep with a powerful man.

You need to work on your reading skills. Der Trihs is saying that Clinton isn't a sociopath.

Hardly; there's nothing particularly sociopathic about "trashing" women who are being used as weapons by your political enemies.

[Imasquare]

Originally Posted by YogSosoth

Isnt it obvious? With all of the poor-hating, immigrant fearmongering, and liberal loathing they do on a regular basis, way above and beyond reasonable levels to ridiculous cartoonish baiting, there's little chance that a guy like Obama is a sociopath, especially compared to the GOP field of loonies, whackjobs, and liars

Actually, someone who you would not think of as psychopathic is a more likely candidate. The psychopath is usually very successful in appearing like a good person right up until they're caught with their hands on the dagger. I very much doubt that Obama is a psychopath though. Or Romney for that matter.

My choices with my percentage of surety:

Alan Jones (100% - Australia's version of Rush Limbaugh)
Benny Hinn (100% - major charlatan)
Fred Phelps (100% - major hate monger)
Osama Bin Laden (100% - basically a Muslim version of Phelps with added violence)
Rush Limbaugh (100% - major hate monger, spreader of malicious misinformation)

Herman Cain (75% - seems to completely lack empathy - e.g. the poor have only themselves to blame)
Rick Perry (75% - likes the idea of executing criminals (as opposed to considering it a necessary evil), not big on forgiveness or empathy with the poor)

Richard Nixon (65% - long history of likely corruption - much smoke so probable fire)

George W. Bush (50% - probably deliberately invaded Iraq on false pretenses; possibly cheated to win his first presidential election)
John Howard (50% - Australia's version of George W. - apparently urged George W. to take the opportunity to invade Iraq)

These are obvious picks because their actions are infamous and they show no hint of compassion, empathy or shame.

But any of us could be interacting with a psychopath in our daily lives and not even know it.

They tend to be attracted to positions in which they can exercise power over others: politics, religion, law enforcement, military, school teacher, corporate CEO. And because they are unencumbered by conscience they are prepared to be extremely ruthless to get what they want. That means they will tend to be highly successful and in positions of power and respect.

ETA: I am having second thoughts about Romney considering his corporate history. Not sure though.

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by JoelUpchurch

You need to work on your reading skills.

No, Shagnasty understood me perfectly.

[JoelUpchurch]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

No, Shagnasty understood me perfectly.

So you agree that Bill Clinton is a sociopath?

[ptosis]

Originally Posted by BigT

Someone who was truly raised to not have empathy

What's the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath? - the latter is successful at 'it' and there is a higher percentage of them in leadership roles than the average population. "Politicians share personality traits with serial killers" -
http://ptosis.hubpages.com/hub/socioVSPsyco

[suranyi]

Originally Posted by JoelUpchurch

So you agree that Bill Clinton is a sociopath?

No, he's saying that neither Bill Clinton, nor the women he slept with are sociopaths.

[bup]

I'm not intentionally trying to go political, but G. Gordon Liddy, I think. I saw him give a lecture once. Prison for him was a game. Subverting the constitution was a game. On his radio show, I got the sense that he viewed most things as games, and had no moral qualms about anything. I have more confidence that he is a sociopath than anyone else connected with Watergate.

Maybe Ross Perot. Not his campaign for president, but I seem to recall his desire for war so he could risk his life and get promoted faster in the navy - that was him, right? That level of calculated dissociation from any emotional desire to - you know, live - makes me think he's possibly a sociopath.

Probably a lot of war heroes, although all the famous ones are dead now.

[bup]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Forget about LBJ for the moment.

And now let's remember him again. Being a manipulator, and creating an image of yourself so exaggerated it borders on falsehood, does not a sociopath make.

I can't believe that Lyndon Johnson - someone who pushed and signed broad civil rights legislation while recognizing, "we just lost the South for a generation" - is a sociopath. He did that because he believed it was the right thing to do, even though it cost him huge amounts of political capital.

Same with Bush 43 - I hate him, and I think he got us in one stupid needless war and fucked up the country good, but he does some things simply because he cares about (some) human beings. He helped stem the tide of AIDS in Africa, for instance.

[grude]

Originally Posted by bup

And now let's remember him again. Being a manipulator, and creating an image of yourself so exaggerated it borders on falsehood, does not a sociopath make.

I can't believe that Lyndon Johnson - someone who pushed and signed broad civil rights legislation while recognizing, "we just lost the South for a generation" - is a sociopath. He did that because he believed it was the right thing to do, even though it cost him huge amounts of political capital.

Same with Bush 43 - I hate him, and I think he got us in one stupid needless war and fucked up the country good, but he does some things simply because he cares about (some) human beings. He helped stem the tide of AIDS in Africa, for instance.

I think even a sociopath could realize the idea of common good, like say we agree on no robbing in the market and violators will be shot. I think a sociopath could understand and abide by the rule as long as they benefit, if however they benefit by breaking the rule they will do that instead.

If you take the definition of a sociopath to its most extreme limit then no one except fictional mustache twirling villains qualify. I think in real life there is much more nuance.

[bup]

Sure, sociopaths can support laws. They do cost-benefit analysis like the rest of us. They usually only break laws when they can get away with it and it helps them.

I can't see any sociopath who was a white southerner signing civil rights legislation in 1964. He had no potential benefit, except pride in doing the moral thing.

[Yaxche]

Originally Posted by Bricker

Edwards is a guy who cheated on his wife. If that's sociopathy, you've redefined the term into uselessness.

Right, Edwards would be a narcissist, not a sociopath.

In fact, I'd venture most of the politicians put forth here (and particularly Romney) are closer to that diagnosis than sociopathy.

[Kozmik]

Originally Posted by kayaker

All right, I'll name names. Mary Lou Retton. There.

You are right.

[RaftPeople]

Interesting research on brain structure and psychopaths:
http://www.machineslikeus.com/news/p...malities-brain

[Zulema]

Originally Posted by Kozmik

You are right.

Exactly! I read all about it in a biography about her written by Cathy Rigby, Mary Lou: The Tiniest Sociopath


My vote goes to Alec Baldwin for a pretty obvious celebrity sociopath.

[Sacrilegium]

With regard to John Edwards - I'm closely related to a member of his legal team. I'm not really in a position to say much specific, but from what I hear he has not exactly made a good impression on them. I've heard some things about callous conversations, but...again, I'm not in a position to really reveal anything.

I will say that they held a mock trial recently as a test run. At least one of the fake jurors compared him to an "arrogant Charles Manson." Take that FWIW.

[Diceman]

For a cinematic example, look at James Bond. He's almost totally incapable of forming any meaningful relationships. The women in his life are all disposable playthings. His coworkers (M, Q) mostly think of him as an irresponsible ass. (Moneypenny likes him, but she's clearly just smitten by his charm.) He's totally cold-blooded about killing other people, and in general he rarely displays anything approaching empathy. He's a textbook sociopath.

[JoelUpchurch]

Originally Posted by Diceman

For a cinematic example, look at James Bond. He's almost totally incapable of forming any meaningful relationships. The women in his life are all disposable playthings. His coworkers (M, Q) mostly think of him as an irresponsible ass. (Moneypenny likes him, but she's clearly just smitten by his charm.) He's totally cold-blooded about killing other people, and in general he rarely displays anything approaching empathy. He's a textbook sociopath.

He is also imaginary.