Travelling from Scotland to Wales

[LVBoPeep]

In September, a close friend and I are celebrating our 40th birthdays by traveling to the UK to see the International Sheepdog Trial (SQUEE!!!).

The trial is in Cardiff, Wales and we plan on catching the last two days of it. Cardiff seems like a great place, beaches, castles, pubs. We found what looks to be a very laid-back B &B that looks great. We're covered for about three-four days.

However, we would like to also see a few sights. Tentatively, we will probably have, not counting travel days, 4 more days of sightseeing. Our plan right now is to arrive in Edinburgh or Glasgow, rent a car and drive down the west side of the UK towards Wales, seeing what we'd can on a a relatively modest budget. Both of us are laid back and will be happy seeing 1-2 sites a day and then going to the pub.

So far, the Lake District looks like it might be convenient and gorgeous. Greyfriar's Cemetery in Edinburgh, whichever castles are also convenient (seems like you can close your eyes and pick, almost.) also appeal to us. We both will be happy with pub fare and beer and don't need much in the way of guided tours unless there's something really awesome we shouldn't miss. I am a bit of an English history and literature nerd - the only thing I'm not interested in over there is current royalty or the Victorians. Otherwise, I have always been fascinated by The Tudors (before the TV show of course and very early history - when the Romans occupied and before. I do believe we may end up a quick day in London depending on our flight plans.

Just fielding for ideas... what shouldn't we pass up on our route to Cardiff?

[Cicero]

If you hire a car in Edinburgh, have a sat nav. Edinburgh is not that large, but it can be a bastard of a place to get out of.

By the Greyfriars Cemetery, I assume you mean the place where the owner is buried? The dog I think is at the front of the place. It is nice and there is a fine tavern as well- Greyfriars Bobby Inn I think it is called. I have a menu from the place. I asked a staff member if I could buy one and he donated it for me buying him a pint.

Enjoy!

We have members from Edinburgh here who can help.

[blondebear]

Conwy Castle is pretty cool.

[MickNickMaggies]

Your nearest bit of Hadrian's Wall is always good for a look.

And Warwick Castle's nice, if a bit out of the way (not too bad if you're going via Birmingham).

Cardiff is good, too, and I like the folk life museum there with all the reconstructed buildings.

[Springtime for Spacers]

The Lake District is very beautiful. However the roads tend toward the narrow, twisty and very very steep. It may take you longer to get where you're going than you expect. I gather that this is true of many UK roads from a US perspective of course, but the roads of the Lake District strike us natives like that. See Wrynose Pass.

[Quartz]

Originally Posted by LVBoPeep

Our plan right now is to arrive in Edinburgh or Glasgow, rent a car and drive down the west side of the UK towards Wales, seeing what we'd can on a a relatively modest budget.

Count on one full day of driving: it's about 400 miles. Stop at Carlisle for Hadrian's Wall. Chester was also a Roman town. Be careful to avoid the rush hours near Manchester and Birmingham.

And if you go near Hereford, beware the Hooligans.

[Meurglys]

Originally Posted by Cicero

By the Greyfriars Cemetery, I assume you mean the place where the owner is buried? The dog I think is at the front of the place. It is nice and there is a fine tavern as well- Greyfriars Bobby Inn I think it is called. I have a menu from the place. I asked a staff member if I could buy one and he donated it for me buying him a pint.

Enjoy!

We have members from Edinburgh here who can help.

When you're in Edinburgh, come visit!
I've moved since Cicero visited me and I now work even closer to Greyfriars Churchyard - it's probably less than 50 yards away!

[Turek]

My wife and I went to Wales for our honeymoon in September of '11. Two of our favorite places were Raglan Castle and Tintern Abbey.

[MickNickMaggies]

Originally Posted by Turek

My wife and I went to Wales for our honeymoon in September of '11. Two of our favorite places were Raglan Castle and Tintern Abbey.

Tintern Abbey is indeed lovely.

Also, ignore the comment upthread- Hereford is a very pretty place and the Cathedral is worth a look, along with its Mappa Mundi. 'The Spread Eagle' does a nice lunch there, too.

[Meurglys]

I've sent you a PM, btw, LVBoPeep...

[Novelty Bobble]

Another option worth considering is driving down the East Coast from Edinburgh. Perhaps taking in Holy Island, Bamburgh, Newcastle, Durham. Then passing over the Pennines on the A66 and hitting the lakes from that direction.
It would be perhaps 50-60 miles longer but I think it may give you more to see. (I'd humbly submit the beach at Bamburgh as one of the most beautiful in the world)

[LVBoPeep]

Thanks all for the suggestions. Sorry I didn't reply as we were just checking out the Grand Canyon and got back yesterday .


I think we plan on driving a couple of hours per day, stay at a new place every night until we get to Cardiff. I did suspect the roads into the Lake District might be a little bit daunting. We aren't committed to it but to see a slice of them would be nice. Thank you very much Meurglys for the invitation, which we may take you up on and Turek for the images .

[Corcaigh]

Please be aware that although it doesn't look it, compared to America, the distances between places in the UK are deceptive, it can take a lot longer than you might think to go from A to B. From memory of doing a similar trip; Edinburgh/Glasgow to Cardiff would take a full day to drive (or as near as).

I remember some American relations being shocked that it took 3 hours to drive to St Andrews (to see the golf course) from Stirling. They'd looked at a map and thought "meh, 5 minutes"

Can't advise on what to see or do though, been too long since I was there!

[Scougs]

Just wanted to toss another idea into the mix. You could easily spend four days just in Edinburgh, and you can get a one way flight with flyBe direct from Edinburgh to Cardiff for £40 each. You would miss out on the Lake District and sights in between, but you would also not have the hassle of driving - or the considerable expense of car hire and fuel.

I'm also in Edinburgh - let me know if you need any logistical info.

[Filbert]

In the Lake District, it's easy enough to get to some very nice areas without braving any of the real 'interesting' roads. There is one advantage to the tiny ones though, if you're used to driving on the other side of the road- you don't need to remember which side to be on, just drive down the middle 'cos they're only one car wide

Chester is definitely worth a look if you're interested in history- though quite a bit is recreated, there's a lot of original Roman sites around- some easier to find than others. If you do go that way, I'd suggest driving from Chester through Wales would be a much nicer option than going back to the motorway then down via Birmingham- it really is easy to get stuck in traffic by Birmingham for hours, it's sort of the country's bottleneck, and there's nothing interesting to see for most of the trip; just grassy banks.

Filbert- who attempted to go up the Wrynose Pass in the snow a few weeks after buying her first car as a teenager.

[Baron Greenback]

Originally Posted by Corcaigh

I remember some American relations being shocked that it took 3 hours to drive to St Andrews (to see the golf course) from Stirling. They'd looked at a map and thought "meh, 5 minutes"

Eh? Were they driving a tractor? It's only 50-odd miles.

[Meurglys]

Maybe the golf was on - there can be serious tailbacks...

[gracer]

Not that many ideas yet, so I thought I'd add some, though a little late (sorry, hadn't seen the thread, but think it could do with some more travel ideas).

Spend some time in Edinburgh, it is gorgeous. A tour not to miss is a look around the underground city. When the city expanded inside its own walls, they started building underground. Many buildings go down to several underground floors, vaulted and scary. Eventually a whole underground city was built, prostitutes and pickpockets galore, with underground streets running between buildings. It's really interesting to see, and plenty of pubs as well In September you'll just miss the crowds of the Ed Fringe.

On the way down, you might want to stop off at a nice whisky distillery? There are many interesting historical places, often very beautiful, with tours (I know, sorry, you don't really want tours) and tastings. There's Islay, an island with very interesting historical distilleries. It's a little out of the way though.

I have to second the Lake District, beautiful place and very friendly B&Bs. You'll get used to the driving, just make sure to ask for an automatic transmission (even if you're used to a stick, shifting with your left hand is really different IMHO).

In the North West you might want to look into the history of the cotton industry. There are some really good books and some museums. I know you said you didn't like the Victorians, but it's still historically very interesting to see effects of the cotton mills, the industrial revolution etc. And then there are always pubs...

Wales can be lovely, or it can be really bleak (the towns). The countryside is beautiful, and there are plenty of castles to see. If you head out into the countryside there you'll be likely to find some real-life sheepdog work.

I personally find Cardiff a bit depressing, I'd not spend too much time there and just go for the trials. If you're a Whovian: it's filmed on the outskirts of Cardiff in a place called Penarth. A pretty place, you might even run into a shoot.

Have you come any further with your plans?

[LVBoPeep]

Originally Posted by gracer

Wales can be lovely, or it can be really bleak (the towns). The countryside is beautiful, and there are plenty of castles to see. If you head out into the countryside there you'll be likely to find some real-life sheepdog work.

I personally find Cardiff a bit depressing, I'd not spend too much time there and just go for the trials. If you're a Whovian: it's filmed on the outskirts of Cardiff in a place called Penarth. A pretty place, you might even run into a shoot.

Have you come any further with your plans?

Thanks very much for the ideas and since we don't even have the flight plan set in stone yet, please keep them coming .

Edinburgh is likely going to win over Glasgow and I forgot about the underground tunnels and we would be down for that. We are going to be seeing the ultimate sheepdog work (ISDS International Sheepdog trial) so we aren't worried about getting real life work in- it doesn't get any better than that. The trial is held in the Vale of Glamorgan which seems like it will have at least a day or two worth of non-sheepdog touristy things.

Will definitely look into the island of whiskey tasting . That sounds awesome.

And by Whovian...do you mean Dr. Who? I've watched a few episodes and liked it but haven't gotten very much into it. I don't think we will be spending very much time in Cardiff itself, it's just the closest major city for reference.

[PaulParkhead]

If the plan is to spend a few days in Edinburgh, I'd suggest that you don't bother with your rental car until you're actually ready to set off on your drive. A car isn't necessary in the city, and actually could be a nuisance. Unlike the shambles that is the Glasgow/west of Scotland bus system, the one in Edinburgh is pretty decent.

I'd be tempted, in fact, to head back to the airport and collect the car from there. It's on the west of the city, which would be best for hitting the M8 west toward the southbound motorway M74.

[Meurglys]

Originally Posted by PaulParkhead

Unlike the shambles that is the Glasgow/west of Scotland bus system, the one in Edinburgh is pretty decent.

Yes, it's a good system, except where it comes up against the shambles this is the ongoing effort to install a tram system!
The Old Town isn't affected by it, only the New Town, including the roads passing, and between, both Edinburgh train stations. Diversions are in place but it can be frustrating!

The nearest distillery to where you're likely to be is this one, 15 miles east of Edinburgh. If you don't have a hire car it's quite awkward to get to - it's a couple of miles south of Pencaitland (where a bus would take you) along minor country roads... But Edinburgh does have The Scotch Whisky Experience right beside the Castle! And also various specialist whisky shops.

[notquitekarpov]

You're in luck - I spent three years as a student in Cardiff (okay - a while back but have visited recently) and have now lived six in Edinburgh.

First, don't hire a car in Edinburgh. Hire a car from the airport and get a bus back out there to pick it up if necessary. Edinburgh is no place to find a parking space and is covered in roadworks currently (our great tram debacle continues).

Edinburgh is indeed a fantastic city - second most popular after London for tourists now. If you must go to the castle book in advance and for the opening as it is always heaving. Personally I wouldn't waste time at Greyfriers Graveyard - it's just a graveyard. Okay the dog story is cute but some vandals chopped his head of and the dumb CEC put it back on the wrong way round (so now he looks away from the graveyard which rather spoils the story). Doh!

Holyrood Palace is also only so-so. If you like history and palaces I would go Dunfermline Abbey or Falkland Palace or Linlithgow Palace - all early and nicely ruined. Use the car to see any of them - all within 45 mins of Edinburgh airport.

Art is great in Edinburgh - the Portrait Gallery, National Gallery or Scottish Royal Academy are all worth a shout. The newly reopened National Museum of Scotland is also fab (and opposite Greyfriers if you must).

If you drop me a line nearer the time I am happy to buy you guys a drink - the pubs are great too. If you like old fashioned pubs then Sandy Bells is good (lots of open folk music session on) and very near the Greyfriers/Museum area. The Bow Bar is also well regarded as are the Guildford Arms (just off Princes St opposite the train station) and the Cafe Royal. If we make a session of it I could sign you into the Scotch Malt Whisky Society (members club in Queens St) for a wee dram to scratch that itch too.

If you don't want to drive for too long then I would recommend first stop somewhere down in the Borders. Motorways are by far the fastest way to get anyway if you avoid the rush hours but obviously you do not see much unless you get off them. However you do get to where you want to with more time to see stuff. Unless you are a confident drivers on the left I would not spend more time than you have to off the motorways if you only have four days to spend.

I would second staying somewhere near Carlisle (but maybe not Carlisle itself!) especially as handy for one of the best preserved bits of Hadrians Wall - Cambolana Fort.
http://www.roman-britain.org/places/camboglanna.htm

The Lakes really need a whole day to get anything out of them - and you need to get out and do some walking on the fells to get the place. But if you have to, then spend the night in Keswick rather than Carlisle and then at least you can enjoy a morning around the lakeside. Roads in the Lakes can be very slow going off the A-class road network.

I would recommend Chester - old walls intact, lots of windy streets and good pubs and eating places and not too big. Nice setting. Worth half a day sight seeing.

Not sure I would recommend driving through Wales north to south - I have done it and whilst some lovely sights it simply takes forever. A compromise might be come down the M5 on the borders and then cut in and do the last half day off the motorway to Cardiff. You could spend a night maybe in the Ross on Wye, Hereford, Abergavenny area - catch some lovely countryside around the Black Mountains or Brecon Beacons and come down into Cardiff from the valleys to the north (through a lot of now grim old coal mining ghost towns).

Cardiff itself has changed a lot since I was there. A new swanky docklands has grown up (it could be anywhere really though) and Cardiff itself it really just a regional shopping centre - it is mainly a Victorian creation and even the Castle is mainly a Victorian fake. I would not waste too much time there.

I see the Sheep Dog trials are well out of town. You could stay out of town but not sure where I would recommend. Not Barry or Porthcawl for sure!!

Hope you have a good trip - lots of time for planning before the trials so if you post back you outline plan we might be able to add some specific recommendations. Enjoy!

[LVBoPeep]

Hello,

Our travel plans are more concrete and a bit different so I'm bumping this thread. We are flying out at the beginning of September to Edinburgh where we will arrive Monday morning and spend two nights. Arthur's Seat, the underground city and some sort of whiskey tasting will be in order. We booked a B & B that seems to be in a good location and will follow the advice of not picking up the car until we are ready to leave Edinburgh. Hopefully we can meet up with Meurglys for a pint .

On investigation, I discovered for sure that my g-grandmother was born in Leeds so we decided to stay two nights there and that area e a bit. We are both dog/horse/livestock oriented so we may investigate Temple Newsam House & Farm to check out the estate and the heritage breeds. There seems to be some good walks and sites in the Pikes district as well that we may check out.

Friday will involve just getting down to the Cardiff area for the trial. It looks like it's about 4 hours from Leeds, give or take, and we may just get distracted on the way and check out this or that before we arrive at the Vale of Glamorgan for the sheepdog trial finals which will take up all of Saturday. We may investigate the area a little bit on Sunday morning before heading to London. Another possibility is a quick side trip to Bath.

We had to decide between more time in Wales or London and London won out. The airport seems far away from everything in London so we were getting stressed out about one night there and having to get up early to make our flight at Heathrow.

That's the basic structure ... I did want to see Bamburgh but I think we may have to give it a skip. Mostly we will see what we can see easily, then head for the pub. In London, we are thinking of taking a river bus down the Thames and ending at the Tower which is probably the #1 site I'd like to see there.

You all have been great so please keep the advice and ideas coming .

[NoClueBoy]

Stay on the road. Keep clear of the moors.

Beware the moon, lads.





I'm so jealous. Be sure to post a link to your pics when you're back.

[Meurglys]

Hope to see you in a few weeks! Peak season will have finished but it will still be somewhat busy I expect.
Sunset is around 20.00 then, so plenty of sightseeing time, but also dark enough to be spooky if you do a ghost tour one evening as I think you said you might...

Mike

[PaulParkhead]

Sounds like a good trip. I'd give the same advice for London as I would for Edinburgh, only about 10 times stronger: don't take a car into the city. The public transport system there is very good. You'll hear the locals complain about it, but compared to the average North American city, it's excellent.

Heathrow is about 50 minutes or so by Tube from central London, or 15 minutes on the far more expensive Heathrow Express train from Paddington station.

I like the riverboat idea. Even when I lived in the city I would take those trips often. I usually started at Greenwich, possibly after a pint in the riverside Trafalgar pub (Londoners, is that still there?) You can also stand on the 0 degree longitude line if you don't mind climbing a steep hill to the Old Royal Observatory. There's a good viewpoint up there, next to a statue which was a "gift from the people of Canada". I guess they must have had a whip-round or something.

[echoreply]

Originally Posted by LVBoPeep

Hello,

Our travel plans are more concrete and a bit different so I'm bumping this thread. We are flying out at the beginning of September to Edinburgh where we will arrive Monday morning and spend two nights. Arthur's Seat, the underground city and some sort of whiskey tasting will be in order. We booked a B & B that seems to be in a good location and will follow the advice of not picking up the car until we are ready to leave Edinburgh. Hopefully we can meet up with Meurglys for a pint .

I was in Edinburgh in June. We did a whisky tour with Whisky in the City and it was great fun. The woman who does the tour is obviously a big fan of whisky, and not just some kid doing tours to make a few quid on the side. The "walking" part was pretty basic though. I think we went to four or five pubs, but only walked about 3 blocks.

My favorite place to eat in Edinburgh was Urban Angel. My second favorite was one of the places under the dogs name.

My wife and brother did Arthur's Seat, and seemed to enjoy it. I think the climb was slippery. We did the underground city tour at Mary King's Close. It was a bit campy, but actually seeing the streets and rooms and such was interesting.

I hope you're not staying at the first B&B we were at. It was awful. The second one had a great staff, but the restaurant that provided the &B was sub-par (particularly compared to Urban Angel).

Originally Posted by LVBoPeep

We had to decide between more time in Wales or London and London won out. The airport seems far away from everything in London so we were getting stressed out about one night there and having to get up early to make our flight at Heathrow.

My favorite place in London in June was The Seven Stars pub. The food was fantastic, the prices were incredibly reasonable, and the cat wears some sort of barrister's ruffle as a collar.

The Tower is fun, and be sure to take the Beefeater tour. Next to the tower is All Hallows Church, which has some interesting underground things to look at. It's free to go in, and they're happy to talk to you about stuff, but also don't care if you wander around by yourself.

We also had an early flight out of Heathrow, so we stayed near Paddington station so it was easy to get the Heathrow Express. Paddington underground doesn't have good connections to downtown London, so we mostly walked over to Lancaster Gate and used the Central Line to get to interesting stuff. There are many many hotels in the area between Paddington and Lancaster Gate. I won't name the one we stayed at, because I don't particularly recommend it.

[Quartz]

There's a direct train from Edinburgh to Leeds and from Leeds to Cardiff is a single easy change in Manchester, so you may only need to hire a car for the time you're in Wales. And, of course, there's a direct train from Cardiff to London.

If you do drive, do take your time driving and get off the motorway for pub stops. Do make sure you avoid Birmingham at peak times.

The Heathrow Express was fast, convenient, clean, and comfortable the last time I used it. You can save a little money by buying your ticket in advance.

[echoreply]

Originally Posted by Quartz

The Heathrow Express was fast, convenient, clean, and comfortable the last time I used it. You can save a little money by buying your ticket in advance.

Fast, convenient, clean, comfortable, and expensive... It does have functional wifi. Yes, buy in advance, and if you search for "heathrow express discount codes" you can find some ways to save a bit. I used the American Express one. I printed out the ticket with my barcode, and used it for four people for both inbound and outbound journeys and there wasn't any hassle. The backpacking tour group on our outbound journey were the real lucky ones. They'd paid for the regular train, but it was broken, so they got upgraded to the express for free.

[Stanislaus]

Originally Posted by LVBoPeep

Arthur's Seat, the underground city and some sort of whiskey tasting will be in order.

If you want to throw some money at the whisky tasting, you could do a lot worse than have dinner at the Scottish Whisky Association dining rooms on Queen St. I went with my dad and brothers last week: the tasting menu is £65, for which you get four courses plus amuse-bouche, and five carefully chosen whiskies to accompany. The food by itself is excellent - with the whisky it was the best fine dining experience I've had.

We had a 12 y.o. Glen Moray w/ goats cheese amuse-bouche; 28 y.o. Tormore w/ steak tartare; 23 y.o Bowmore w/scallops; 7 y.o. Tobermory w/veal; and an 18 y.o (IIRC) Balmenach w/ a rhubarb dessert.


It's an indulgence, but it's well, well worth it.

[Stanislaus]

Originally Posted by Quartz

The Heathrow Express was fast, convenient, clean, and comfortable the last time I used it. You can save a little money by buying your ticket in advance.

You can save a lot of money by getting the Heathrow Connect instead.

It leaves from the same station (Paddington) and takes 25 mins instead of 15 but it's half the price. Because it's a stopping service, it gets used by commuters at rush hour so if you've got a lot of baggage I'd avoid getting it then - otherwise you have to ask how much 10 more minutes hanging around an airport is worth to you.

[LVBoPeep]

Meurglys suggested I post a recap of our trip - here it goes (warning, possibly objectionable assumptions about life in the UK ahead . I will be kind and split it up in 4 posts - one each for Edinburgh, Leeds, the Vale of Glamorgan & London. I may not have the stamina to do all 4 today but will try my best .

I'm afraid that, due to time limits, we were not able to follow most of the suggestions. We had one full day in each area buffered by 1/2 days of travel, one of which with an extreme hangover (thanks Edinburgh!)

We started out in Edinburgh. Although most of our trip was fantastic, nothing ever compared to those first days on the Royal Mile. By the time we got in from a 20 hour flight, had a pint & chips, a 3 hour nap AND figured out the bus system, it was late afternoon. We roamed around the Royal Mile and the weather was slightly misty and atmospheric:

First night in Edinburgh

Lessons about the U.K. we learned the first day:

1. Don't try to figure out the bus system. Just ask someone.

2. You have to order your food at the bar in most pubs and pay up front. No one will serve you (not a hardship -actually prefer it that way).

3. Having small change now means you have the equivalent of $20 on the bottom of your purse.

4. Kenny Rogers is unusually popular. It was a bit bizarre although I'm told that's just an assumption. I haven't heard him much since 3rd grade at home and heard him 3 times (different places!) in 48 hours while in Edinburgh.

We met a nice Irish lady named Ursula while we were searching for a good pub. She literally dragged us into this place : The Royal Oak where we stayed for a while listening to Kenny Rogers (again!) and John Denver songs played live.

Jet lag did not get us down. We were aided by a few more pints and we were able to sleep and get up normally. A lady at the B & B told us Edinburgh Castle was the one thing not to miss so we struck out in the morning, now having mastered the bus system (HA!) and managed to walk only a mile in the wrong direction before we figured out the Old Governor's House was not the castle.

Castle was pretty decent - the views of the city were the best part of it.

View from the Castle

We had a great lunch at a cafe on the Johnstone terrace that had views of the George Heriot school and outstanding seafood. It was the first time we had a non-pub or B & B meal and I'm happy to report that we didn't have a bad food experience for the entire trip. That may be a result of avoiding this:

No thanks...

We did succumb to the Greyfriar's temptation, although the pub was too crowded. Although it was "just" a cemetery, coming from a girl whose town's oldest grave is well UNDER 100 years, we found it to be pretty fascinating. And yes, we have pics of the dog.

We took a break from walking (my calves have still not completely recovered from so many tiny steps) sitting on a gigantic park enjoying an especially bad cup of coffee, near the University. The greenness of the grass and the lovely weather made up for the rank brew (one of many, sorry to say!). After that, we attempted to find Holyrood Palace, ended up in a questionable neighborhood and finally came back to the Royal Oaks pub where we stayed until the very last pint was poured. An English teacher from Berkley wrote a poem for my friend and I had an hours-long conversation with a Canadian transplant that still hurts to think we can never finish in person. Then, towards closing, a rude drunk kissed me and grabbed me. Luckily, no harm done but I learned a lesson about not hogging the bar area when the last pints are being bought- especially in a bar open an hour later than the rest. That is probably true at home too although I avoid Vegas bars after 1 A.M like the plague.

A few more random pics:

Greyfriar's

Another view from the Castle

Not Holyrood Palace


Long story short...the people in Edinburgh were by far the best. We met other nice folks along our journey but so many people there would strike up friendly conversations and were very welcoming.

[LVBoPeep]

Whoops.. that last link was supposed to read "Not the Castle". Too late to edit.

[LVBoPeep]

Leeds.... Warning..this was probably our least favorite place we visited but still moments of awesomeness. There will definitely be objectionable assumptions ahead.

We did follow the suggestion to get the car at the airport. It then took us an hour to figure out how to get out of the city but once we did, the countryside was magical.

I did not get any pictures of the countryside because I was extremely ill...self-induced by McEwan's.

Still, it was astoundingly gorgeous country. You know it will be but are still unprepared until you see it in person. And the sheep...so many happy sheep.

Driving in the UK is insane. Sorry, that's my opinion. Curvy roads and everyone going as fast as possible and not very happy with poor American tourists who are still concentrating on staying in the correct lane. When we got to Wales, the stress of hedge-lined, one lane roads was added .This was only bad day on the trip - again, self-induced. My friend was learning to drive (I was not so brave) and I was the navigator with a poor sense of direction and we had a mutual mental breakdown trying to find our Leeds B & B.

Finally, we stopped and asked (lesson learned, get as close as possible, then ask someone).

Our B & B also had a pub and we were happy because it was very horse racing oriented (my friend and I being particularly horse-y ourselves). We looked forward to watching the English racing and hurdling and meeting like-minded locals. Well, the racing was fun, the staff friendly but the pub patrons were very reserved. Most men would not look us in the eye and the room showing the racing feed was decidedly segregated (we were the only women). We had a rough day so we just chalked it up to us being very haggard and probably not attractive and looked forward to the next day sans hangover.

Apologies from anyone from Leeds but will say we saw a disproportionate number of bald men.

The next day, we visited the Royal Armouries. That was a fun tour for the price (FREE!). We did find it ironic that gun control friendly UK had such a hall of weaponry (and a few suggestions that we Americans are gun-crazy could be found within the same location) but overall, very interesting stuff.

We took a cheap river tour through part of downtown Leeds. Weather was gorgeous and we were only sorry that the boat was glass sided instead of open.

We then set off for the English country estate experience at Temple Newsam House. Modest entrance fee and beautiful grounds. The house was the best part - we spent hours there looking at great paintings,statues and lovely rooms. After the house, we visited the heritage farm and met our first friend in Leeds.

We returned back to our pub/hotel for a second try...still a stony reserved crowd. So we walked a few blocks down the street and found another pub. It was almost empty at first but we took a chance and struck up a conversation with the bartender and his wife (they owned the pub). They were lovely people and again, we closed the pub down but this time with half-pints and less drunken shenanigans. My friend and another patron took turns at the juke box playing Morrissey, Bob Dylan or Johnny Cash or something like that. We discussed music in general, the bartender (from Glasgow) informing us that Kenny Rogers was an awesome American import. They were the first among many to express disbelief that we would drive 4 hours to get somewhere, especially in one day. We come from a place where it is 4 hours to get any other place but we met several folks that didn't seem to see the logic in venturing far from home. Especially when we live somewhere so cool as Vegas .

We did leave Leeds with a good English breakfast and on a high note, especially considering how bad off we were at the beginning. I would visit again to see more of the countryside and go back to the Old Masons.

[Becky2844]

Loving your update. Thanks for the pics. Someday...

[LVBoPeep]

Thank you, I will try to sum up the last two today...

We had a nice, mostly stress-free drive to the Cardiff area. Lovely drive over the Severn Estuary (did not stop for a pic, sorry to say) We only got turned around twice in a roundabout leaving Leeds and overshot our last exit by 20 miles or so. One thing we learned in the Welsh countryside is that if you don't take the right turn you will not have an opportunity to turn around for practically forever. However, we made it to our adorable B & B by early afternoon.

Our primary purpose for this part of our journey was to watch the ISDS Supreme International Sheepdog trial - pretty much the Super Bowl for working border collies - but we had the afternoon to kill and the trial to watch the next day. Our hostess told us there were a few places to eat at Llanwit Major, just down the road. We set off and encountered our first one-laned roads. It didn't seem to slow anyone down despite having zero visibility with the 8 foot or so high hedgerows on both sides of the road and sharp curves.

We didn't see any pubs and my friend really just thought she'd try to get out of that town when we saw a little sign reading "beach". Not sure how far but...why not? A few more sharp turns and pull overs to let someone by (who was usually breathing down our throats to get past our slow selves) and we made it. It was not simply a beach, it was an epic beach complete with cliffs, ruins, coastal paths and ....fish and chips . Mission Accomplished.

EPIC BEACH

GRASS! (you have to remember I come from a barren wasteland and grass makes me very, very happy.)

Ruins

Rocks (fossils galore!), cliffs and caves and wildflowers.... and of course... lovely picnic area for our (gigantic greasebombs) fish & chips.

This leads me to one of my assumptions. We hear, in the States, about our portion sizes being so unusually large. Now, granted - we ate in pubs often but also enough cafes, tapas bars and restaurants to feel we had a fair sample. Every place gave us more than enough to eat. I could rarely finish a pub meal and the fish portions were more often than not over 10 inches long with piles and piles of chips underneath. We picked up a local newspaper in Wales with an article from a vegetarian that referenced the American tendency to eat 36 oz steaks ! So do the portion sizes really differ so much or is there just a cultural assumption that Americans do eat triple what we actually do?

Ok... will just close this with some pics from the dog trial. The sheep everywhere were gorgeous, fat and happy. We spent all of Saturday at the trial.

Happy sheep.

Happy Dog.

Slightly upset sheep

Hard workin' dawgs...

[Simple Linctus]

Originally Posted by Baron Greenback

Eh? Were they driving a tractor? It's only 50-odd miles.

Americans who aren't used to British roads drive astonishingly slowly.

[Cicero]

LvBoPeep- thanks for the pictures and memories of Edinburgh. We were lucky at the greyfriars tavern in that there were only two other people there. And yes, I have pictures of that dog!

Glad you caught up with Meurglys and I share your pain with the steep hills and roads in Edinburgh. I had hoped to get to Scotland at Christmas and catch up with Meurglys and Cinnamon Imp but it won't be the case.

However, I will take umbrage- Edinburgh Castle was "pretty decent"! It is fabulous! (Although I admit I like the military and historical part more so than the tourist traps that surround it).

Keep posting

[Becky2844]

The pictures of the sheep could have been taken in East TN: green/mist/mountains. So reminds me of home.

What a great trip; the antiguity of the ruins and castles is right up my alley. Know you'll remember it always.

[LVBoPeep]

Originally Posted by Cicero

However, I will take umbrage- Edinburgh Castle was "pretty decent"! It is fabulous! (Although I admit I like the military and historical part more so than the tourist traps that surround it).

Keep posting

I didn't mean to sound underwhelmed...it's just that it was really crowded that day and it got pretty windy on top of the hill. But yes, it was very cool !

[Meurglys]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Glad you caught up with Meurglys and I share your pain with the steep hills and roads in Edinburgh. I had hoped to get to Scotland at Christmas and catch up with Meurglys and Cinnamon Imp but it won't be the case.

As it happens, they were so overwhelmed by Edinburgh and it's pubs that we didn't actually meet up! Despite where I work almost making it into one of their pictures by the look of it!
I did meet Cormac 262, though, who was in town last week... He and his wife were enjoying hiking all up and down the hills and streets as well!

You're welcome to drop by if you're back, Cicero and LVBoPeeb both.

[LVBoPeep]

Very sorry about that Meurglys - we did want to meet up but had wifi complications (couldn't get onto the B & Bs network, phone did not work overseas, etc) and couldn't get the exact place to meet up. And the pub scene was a bit overwhelming but the 20 plus hours of travel didn't help either. Next time - we think the International will be held in Scotland in 2014 so we are saving now!

Ok....final leg of the journey...London.

We had to get the rental car back to Heathrow by 10 AM but most inquiries of how long it would take to get to London were met with blank stares. However, it turned out to take a bit over two hours and we got to the rental place only slightly late. We asked for a taxi - having found in Edinburgh that lugging bags on crowded buses was not worth it.

First sign we were in a different part of the world...the taxi was a Mercedes-Benz.

Second sign...the trip from Heathrow to our hotel cost...75 pounds . We hadn't topped over 30 pounds previously for similar distances. Another American arrived at the same time, she took one of the regular cabs and it cost her 85 pounds. Luckily, we found a much more reasonable taxi for the return trip and a good thing since the Heathrow Express was closed down that morning due to someone going under the train.

Needless to say, I was very glad to have a surplus to my travel budget when I arrived in London and sad to say, it was quickly depleted. We were expecting things to be more expensive the entire trip and had been pleasantly surprised until London.

Our driver made us a bit nervous about our neighborhood (Near Camberwell Green) - we did go for more of bargain rate hotels in general, being two poor girls from Nevada. Next time will buck up for more centralized housing but none of our B & B's were objectionable- all were nice people with good service.

We did ask about the bus system at the front desk and only managed to thoroughly confuse ourselves and wasted a good hour trying to figure out our instructions before we finally found the right bus (as in Edinburgh, wound up in a not great neighborhood before we wisely turned back) and ended up here...

First stop in London

We roamed the area for a while, a little intimidated by the crowds although there were some mega-rich folks around that made for interesting people-watching. Model types wearing Prada and guys in polo uniforms and the like.

We thought we did good avoiding the Olympics but didn't count on the Paralympics being in town. We made it to Buckingham Palace (bit of a snooze, really), which was extremely crowded. Obligatory picture of one of the guards. We did find a decent pub and plotted our next day's events since it was our last day in the U.K. and we wanted to make it count.

The next morning, we found a river bus tour. I had seen Bourdain take one on No Reservations and we liked the idea. That was, by far, the best decision we made on the entire trip. We purchased a rover pass, so we could get on and off. Witty but not overbearing commentary from the guides and open top boats make great places to observe London sites while enjoying a beer. First stop...and the one I had been looking forward to the most, was The Tower of London..

It was very cool and a bit spooky to pull up next to this on a boat. We took the Murder, Intrigue and Torture tour at the Tower, which was fun. Sobering to sit in the chapel where Anne Boleyn and Lady Jane Grey were buried. Even more so, to gaze at the area where they lost their heads. . After many hours (and more stairs than Edinburgh), we were ready to get back on the boat. This time, we headed towards Greenwich.

River Bus pics:

London flood control - got a kick out of the "If the lions are drinking, London is sinking. If the lions are drunk than London is..." saying.

River Police

Execution Dock- they hung pirates here (not recently).

The Tower Bridge and HMS Belfast

River Police- we raised our beers to them.

Cutty Sark famous clipper ship in Greenwich.

On the way back, I hit a jackpot shot. That's the London Eye, House of Parliament, Big Ben (now Elizabeth Tower I guess) and bonus red bus.

Statue of Boadicea.

Needless to say, the river bus was the way to go to see a good deal of sights in one day without negotiating crowds of people. The Thames itself was pretty amazing.

We wrapped up our last day in London by visiting Westminster Abbey - it was closed for tours but still had plenty to see from the outside. I wanted to put this dragon in my pocket and take it back on the plane but it wouldn't fit.

We had our last pints in the pub, some killer Lebanese sandwiches (very friendly shop - probably the only time in London we actually chit-chatted with Londoners.) Stumbled out of bed and endured 26 hours to get home. The End.

[gracer]

Thanks for the update

So you didn't try haggis? Or just not from a tin? Because....you missed out!! I'm getting hungry right now just thinking about haggis...mmm...haggis!

[LVBoPeep]

Actually, I would have tried haggis, just not in a can. The opportunity never quite presented itself.

[Becky2844]

Thanks! I've enjoyed the thread.