Next Elder Scrolls game is an MMO

[Quimby]

Announcement here.

Disappointing but not unexpected. I am wondering if single player PC games are going extinct.

[Ethilrist]

Any Elder Scrolls game is a good thing.

The big problem with most single player games is that, once you buy the game, that's it. They don't get to charge you any more money for it. Everybody's looking at the huge feeding troughs of (a) monthly charges for NEW NEW NEW content, or (b) paying through the nose for additional content on an as-"needed" basis (DDO, for example).

[FinnAgain]

That's a damned shame, especially since Skyrim proved that you can make a hell of a lot of money off a single player game.

[enalzi]

This really looks like more of a side-project, especially since it's coming so soon. There's about a five-year gap between each of the main Elder Scrolls game, so I imagine we'll be seeing VI in 2016.

[Quimby]

Originally Posted by enalzi

This really looks like more of a side-project, especially since it's coming so soon. There's about a five-year gap between each of the main Elder Scrolls game, so I imagine we'll be seeing VI in 2016.

I really doubt that. MMOs are voracious for content so they would have to have two completely separate staffs to make two games that cannibalize each others audience. Unless it gets outsourced (and even that is unlikely because, like I said, you would be making competition for your own product), I doubt they make another purely single player Elder Scrolls game.

Of course if the MMO fails horribly, they might change their mind. Hey, I can dream right?

[John DiFool]

Cue the inevitable compromises in gameplay so as to satisfy the lowest common denominator in 5 4 3 2 1...

[Grumman]

A multiplayer Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout 3 would be fucking awesome, if it was done right. If. Just as one example, if it was me player houses would be Instances done with proper Bethesda physics and objects. I bet the roleplayers would love being able to invite another player into their home to see what they've done with the place.

[Quimby]

The thing is, what I like most about Elder Scrolls is the game system. Let's face it, the setting is basically your average fantasy setting. What makes the games great is they play like few other games. The relatively open class system and the idea that skills get better as you use them is what makes these games different and it's the system is what will change the most with an MMO.

[Arrogance Ex Machina]

Originally Posted by enalzi

This really looks like more of a side-project, especially since it's coming so soon.

Just because they are announcing it in May doesn't mean it'll be done anytime soon. It might be done in ... say, 2014? Most MMOs start the hype quite early.

Also, Warhammer 40.000 MMO just got converted to a single-player game instead, so I kinda doubt it'll be MMOs all the way down quite yet.

[wolfpax181]

Honestly, I'd be quite happy with it being a conversion of Skyrim that allowed for multiplayer over a LAN. My wife and I would play the crap out of that.

[SenorBeef]

Originally Posted by Quimby

The thing is, what I like most about Elder Scrolls is the game system. Let's face it, the setting is basically your average fantasy setting. What makes the games great is they play like few other games. The relatively open class system and the idea that skills get better as you use them is what makes these games different and it's the system is what will change the most with an MMO.

Exactly. As an MMO, it's just going to be the same boring ass orcs/elves/generic tolkien fantasy bullshit that we always get. Yawn. There's nothing especially interesting about the universe.

Now a fallout MMO - that might be interesting.

[MJinks]

Ultima Online was the first big MMORPG and it had a very similar skill system to the Elder Scrolls series. Skills could be raised from 0 to 100, in 0.1 increments. Characters had a 700 skill point cap to attempt to keep things balanced, there were no character levels. The game is still alive (though unrecognisable) 15 years later. It also had a well established lore that managed to break the D&D mould (no Elves!). So it can be done.

Of course then Everquest was released, sold three times as many subscriptions and became the default template for most MMO developers since. Some games have tried to change things and they get tons of hype but the players just don't seem interested. Hopefully Bethesda, with their already established fan base, can mix things up a little and succeed.

Anyway, I don't see why this would spell the end of single-player Elder Scrolls games. An ES MMOG should easily make enough money to fund their own development team. Skyrim sold fantastically and they'd be fools to abandon the series.

[Quimby]

Looks like they made the official announcement.

[Craz3d117]

I too am quite unhappy, however this is only assuming that it is their main focus. Now, if there are two different teams, one for TES Online and the other to continue Skyrim DLC and the next true TES game, I have no problem with that I suppose. However, I really don't see TES Online being too innovative in any sense. As others have pointed out the universe in and of itself is rather standard fantasy. I would MUCH, MUCH rather see a Fallout MMO game, because it would truly bring something new to the table.

[Lightnin']

Originally Posted by Craz3d117

I too am quite unhappy, however this is only assuming that it is their main focus. Now, if there are two different teams, one for TES Online and the other to continue Skyrim DLC and the next true TES game, I have no problem with that I suppose. However, I really don't see TES Online being too innovative in any sense. As others have pointed out the universe in and of itself is rather standard fantasy. I would MUCH, MUCH rather see a Fallout MMO game, because it would truly bring something new to the table.

Zenimax Online (which is the studio making Elder Scrolls Online) is a completely separate studio from Bethesda (which is the studio that made Skyrim).

[Balance]

Eh, no. I'm an MMO player, but an Elder Scrolls MMO runs completely counter to all the things that make the series worthwhile, in my opinion. I play them to

1) play a singular character--the Chosen One for the age, basically.
2) create the most wildly overpowered, dungeon-crushing, encounter-trivializing character I can.
3) customize the game world and mechanics to suit my whims.
4) create bizarre and humorous situations by abusing the console commands.

(Not necessarily in that order.)

In an MMO, you'll be one of a horde (if they're lucky) of "balanced" (sharply limited) characters. It's highly unlikely that any modification of the world will be allowed, and the console is right out. At best, I expect it to be WoW with slightly better graphics and a dubious physics engine.

If I can't ride a wave of cabbages down a mountain, resurrect a bandit and kill him again for pissing me off, and change all the dragons to flying ponies if I feel like it, I'm not interested.

[thelurkinghorror]

Dammit. I am not mad because I expect production of the core series to slow. I mean Blizzard made WoW, and their production didn't slow down because they have different teams (in other words, instead of slowing and putting out their other games at a "super slow" pace, Blizzard sticks to their normal "very slow" pace).

I want to get into the content, but I am done with MMORPGs. I don't have the time or money to devote, and I'm never been a fan of the gameplay, where it seems to be "join a guild, spend hours every weekend raiding."

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by Quimby

Announcement here.

Disappointing but not unexpected. I am wondering if single player PC games are going extinct.

At the very least tablets and mobile gaming will have a lot of room for single player.

Originally Posted by FinnAgain

That's a damned shame, especially since Skyrim proved that you can make a hell of a lot of money off a single player game.

Same with Mass Effect series and a whole host of other high content story driven games.

Originally Posted by Grumman

A multiplayer Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout 3 would be fucking awesome, if it was done right. If. Just as one example, if it was me player houses would be Instances done with proper Bethesda physics and objects. I bet the roleplayers would love being able to invite another player into their home to see what they've done with the place.

I loved City of heroes for about a week and I never played again. I considered it money well spent.

Actually, I prefer to have a game that doesn't require hundreds of hours of grinding before I can get to the "real game"

Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror

Dammit. I am not mad because I expect production of the core series to slow. I mean Blizzard made WoW, and their production didn't slow down because they have different teams (in other words, instead of slowing and putting out their other games at a "super slow" pace, Blizzard sticks to their normal "very slow" pace).

I want to get into the content, but I am done with MMORPGs. I don't have the time or money to devote, and I'm never been a fan of the gameplay, where it seems to be "join a guild, spend hours every weekend raiding."

Its not the money its the time. Even if I could avoid all the grinding to get to endgame, the raiding time requirements to be in a progression guild is a part time job.

[DigitalC]

If you read the feature list without any mention of the franchise at all the only reaction would be "meh, another wow clone". It's like Elder Scrolls only with hotbar-based not-really-realtime combat, third person camera, classes instead of skill levelling...so basically not Elder Scrolls at all. The only elder scrolls thing about it is the lore, which really means jack squat. I can describe this game for you right now: Quest hub based leveling (go to a quest hub, kill ten somethings, collect the asses of ten somethings, pick up ten somethings from the ground then move to the next place and repeat). Run dungeons until your shoulders are big enough to run hard mode dungeons then run those until you can run raids then run those until you can run hard mode raids. Daily quests, woohoo. Faction/rep grinding. Pvp based around time investment so the people who kick your ass now will kick your ass forever.

[XT]

Originally Posted by FinnAgain

That's a damned shame, especially since Skyrim proved that you can make a hell of a lot of money off a single player game.

Pretty much this. What they ought to be doing is focusing on DLCs for Skyrim, a new Fallout game and the next sequel to the Elder Scrolls series. If they have to do an MMO, then the Fallout universe seems more promising to me, though I think I heard that one is under development and I know there has been a bunch of legal battles between (IIRC) Interplay and Bethesda over it and over the IP rights and such for the Fallout title.

-XT

[Feyrat]

Originally Posted by John DiFool

Cue the inevitable compromises in gameplay so as to satisfy the lowest common denominator in 5 4 3 2 1...

http://kotaku.com/5907598/first-elde...er-fantasy-mmo

Pretty much yeah, sadly.

I guess I'm kinda glad. Played the beta for GW2 last weekend and it was AMAZING, I guess I'm happy this won't be distracting me from it.

Originally Posted by Arrogance Ex Machina

Just because they are announcing it in May doesn't mean it'll be done anytime soon. It might be done in ... say, 2014? Most MMOs start the hype quite early.

2013 according to the announcement.

[shijinn]

Originally Posted by FinnAgain

That's a damned shame, especially since Skyrim proved that you can make a hell of a lot of money off a single player game.

and World of Warcraft makes a hell of a lot of money multiplied by every month since its release some 8(!) years ago. there is just no comparison. no one is going to ignore the subscription pie if they think it is within reach.

it's too bad they can't come up with a single player game in a multiplayer world. where any single player can take down npc bosses, while other players serves as pvp fodder.

[Grumman]

You can't own a house because it's "too hard to implement in an MMO".

I officially hate this man, and Bethesda should too. If the lazy bastard can't be bothered actually making the goddamn game, what use is he?

[Balance]

Originally Posted by shijinn

and World of Warcraft makes a hell of a lot of money multiplied by every month since its release some 8(!) years ago. there is just no comparison. no one is going to ignore the subscription pie if they think it is within reach.

WoW is a freakish outlier in the MMO market. It managed, partly by luck, to set the right sort of hook at the right time. The publishers of every new MMO that comes along think they're going to get that kind of subscriber base, and they're all wrong--by an order of magnitude or more. I don't expect it to happen again, even if WoW itself goes down. The field is too fragmented. Each new MMO can grab a piece of the pie, if it's good enough, but no one's going to make off with the whole plate.

I figure an Elder Scrolls MMO will net a pretty good piece at launch, by drawing in fans of the series and discontented players of other fantasy MMOs (who always try the new shiny before returning to the game they complain endlessly about). They'll post some impressive concurrent session numbers for a few months, then the talk will be all about their subscription numbers, because the sessions will drop off. Then the launch subscriptions will start to run out, and it will drop down to something in the neighborhood of the other non-WoW MMOs. That's not to say it won't be successful; you can make decent money at that level, if you play your cards right, but it's not going to be the kind of income WoW generates.

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by Balance

I figure an Elder Scrolls MMO will net a pretty good piece at launch, by drawing in fans of the series...

How? What does it possess that TES fans want?

[DWMarch]

Originally Posted by Grumman

How? What does it possess that TES fans want?

The wabbajack. Turn bitches into chickens. What more does anyone need?

[thelurkinghorror]

Unique Daedra artifacts for everyone!

[Otara]

I suspect this is to target all the new players Skyrim brought in to the series. Old grumpy MMO survivors like me arent really who they're after. They sold over 10 million copies, now they want 5 million subscribers.

I would be surprised if they did a single player as well, they'd see them as cannibalising each other, a common fear with MMO sequels.

I suspect it will be as stated, big rush, then 'this is just another MMO and its not WOW' unless they do something pretty original, and theres no indication they will to date.

Otara

[Justin_Bailey]

Originally Posted by Quimby

Disappointing but not unexpected.

I'm honestly loving how damn surprised everybody is considering the fact that Bethesda established an MMO team (and never tried to hide it) back in 2007.

Originally Posted by Quimby

I am wondering if single player PC games are going extinct.

People wonder this every few months. The answer is always the same... of course not! Singleplayer games still sell a ton (just look at Skyrim) and they don't require the after-release resources that multiplayer games do. It's simple math.

[madsircool]

You can't own a house because it's "too hard to implement in an MMO".

Originally Posted by Grumman

I officially hate this man, and Bethesda should too. If the lazy bastard can't be bothered actually making the goddamn game, what use is he?

Yet you can own a house in Runescape.

[DigitalC]

You could own a house in UO, LOTRO, Anarchy Online. That's just out of the games i've played. I know warhammer and guild wars had guild halls, which are like collective houses.

[Headrush042]

SWG had complete urban sprawl, as well as DAOC (though only in specified areas). EQ2 had instanced guild halls and instanced player homes (my crafter made a killing off of furniture). The tricky part is striking a balance between everyone having a house that could be displayed to everyone (urban sprawl ensues) and giving the player their own instanced space that nobody else cares about (and thus feels a bit pointless, even if you could invite people in).

[Grumman]

As long as you've got good urban planning that exploits the non-Euclidean nature of a game world (and don't give people flying mounts), you should be able to do both.

If it was me, I'd suggest at least a two tier approach: major thoroughfares that remain of relatively constant length, which includes most shops and a few exclusive player houses (probably loft and basement apartments as well as inns); and the "suburbs", which telescope as more houses are added.

[Balance]

Originally Posted by Grumman

How? What does it possess that TES fans want?

The name, basically. Some fans of the series--mostly those who haven't been burned this way before--will see a new TES game and jump on it. "Hey, I loved Skyrim, and this is Skyrim Online, right?" They'll buy the game, pay for the first month (maybe more, if the company pushes longer subscriptions at discounts). The first few days, they'll be flailing around, learning the ropes, and--inevitably--getting eaten by rats, but most will stick through the learning curve.

Within a month or so, though, many of them will realize, "Hey, this isn't a damn thing like Skyrim." Some will stop logging in as soon as that clicks, some will persist in looking for the experience they wanted for a while, and a few will get hooked because MMOs do that. Only that last group will extend their subscriptions when they run out.

[Lightnin']

A few more articles:

How combat works in ESO

Some info on the story

What makes it a modern MMO

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by madsircool

Yet you can own a house in Runescape.

Originally Posted by DigitalC

You could own a house in UO, LOTRO, Anarchy Online. That's just out of the games i've played. I know warhammer and guild wars had guild halls, which are like collective houses.

And City of Heroes has Superbases, which work fine as work fine as personal housing if the only characters in the supergroup (the CoH version of guilds) are alts of yours. You can also customize the base; add rooms, devices, storage units, various props.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Well, that sucks.

[Quimby]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

Well, that sucks.

I almost feel bad for them because it seems like they really want to make something fun but the are stripping out almost everything that makes Elder Scrolls special. Plus what my experience with SWTOR has taught me is that by and large the audience of hardcore MMO players are a bunch of entitled cry babies that burn through content that took 2 years to make in 6 hours and then scream for more.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by Quimby

I almost feel bad for them because it seems like they really want to make something fun but the are stripping out almost everything that makes Elder Scrolls special. Plus what my experience with SWTOR has taught me is that by and large the audience of hardcore MMO players are a bunch of entitled cry babies that burn through content that took 2 years to make in 6 hours and then scream for more.

I agree, and for me, aside from what everyone else is saying, I really just don't particularly care to play video games with strangers on the internet. FPS games are pretty fun for online play, but that's about it for me. A game like Skyrim, or Fallout 3/New Vegas...these games were great because the world was mine and I didn't have to share it!

[DigitalC]

They had no chance to truly do something new and innovative, they started making it in 07 when WoW was at it's peak. There was no way they were going to get away with doing absolutely anything but "WoW with TES lore". At this point they must realize that kind of game is never going to be the next big thing.