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  #1  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:51 PM
Qin Shi Huangdi Qin Shi Huangdi is offline
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Is It Partisan to Say "Barack Hussein Obama"

Is saying President Obama's full name, simply being partisan by noting his middle name or is it no different than saying "Franklin Delano Roosevelt" or "Dwight David Eisenhower"?
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  #2  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:53 PM
markdash markdash is offline
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Context is everything. If you were writing a biography about the man, using his full name would be appropriate. But if you were talking about his stance on an issue, it's completely unnecessary and obviously trying to forge a subconscious negative image of the President.
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  #3  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:54 PM
Kimmy_Gibbler Kimmy_Gibbler is offline
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Yes, but go ahead and say it if you feel you must.

Because, after all, Willard Mittens Romney ain't getting elected anytime soon.
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  #4  
Old 05-05-2012, 11:33 PM
The Second Stone The Second Stone is online now
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He doesn't go by his middle name. Some people want to evoke hatred of Muslims and his name is an obviously Muslim name. It would kinda be like if someone's last name was Kim and whenever we used their full name in a sentence then we referred to Kim Jong Un or Kim Jong Ill to remind everyone about those heathen, commie, tyrannical, mass-murdering Kims. Really unfair to the zillions of Kims who would never do such a thing, but there are worse things than being partisan. Like being partisan on the side of the Kims!
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:59 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Not intrinsically, but it's often used for partisan effect.
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  #6  
Old 05-06-2012, 12:01 AM
Antinor01 Antinor01 is online now
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It comes off as partisan and trying to evoke fear of Muslims. Mostly because calling a president by his full name is rather rare. The only people that seem to do it with Obama are far right wingers and they also seem fond of writing his middle name in all caps.
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  #7  
Old 05-06-2012, 01:25 AM
Chipacabra Chipacabra is offline
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Was he naughty? Are you telling him to go stand in the corner? Why do you want to use his full name?
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  #8  
Old 05-06-2012, 01:48 AM
Kozmik Kozmik is offline
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Originally Posted by Antinor01 View Post
The only people that seem to do it with Obama are far right wingers and they also seem fond of writing his middle name in all caps.
And then even they don't get it right, it's Barack Hussein Obama II. (At least, according to Wikipedia.)
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  #9  
Old 05-06-2012, 02:11 AM
Rachellelogram Rachellelogram is online now
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Originally Posted by markdash View Post
Context is everything. If you were writing a biography about the man, using his full name would be appropriate. But if you were talking about his stance on an issue, it's completely unnecessary and obviously trying to forge a subconscious negative image of the President.
I agree with this. Only history will tell for certain, but I doubt that people will be referring to the current president as Barack H. Obama or BHO in the future.

I guess a good rule of thumb is whether the man himself prefers to use his middle name or initial. Obama never has, to my knowledge. GWB had a good reason to do so, because he had to differentiate himself from his father. But we've never had an Obama (or a Barack) in office before.
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  #10  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:02 AM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is online now
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99% of the time? Abso-fucking-lutely! My middle name is shared with a Saint, a douchebag, and a bunch of kings, allowing for translations.

The only Presidents who have relevant full middle names that need to be mentioned are John Quincy Adams, George W. Bush, and their dads, as a disambiguation; William Henry Harrison, Taft, and any President where it would be weird not to use an initial as a general rule, like John F. Kennedy and Harry S. Truman. It's even worse when people say "Hussein did this or that."

Another right wing term for him I've seen is "Barry," because I guess he used that as his nickname for awhile. I don't know what the justification behind that is, like if it means he was hiding his "Muslim" heritage or what.
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  #11  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:54 AM
Justin_Bailey Justin_Bailey is offline
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
The only Presidents who have relevant full middle names that need to be mentioned are John Quincy Adams, George W. Bush, and their dads, as a disambiguation; William Henry Harrison, Taft, and any President where it would be weird not to use an initial as a general rule, like John F. Kennedy and Harry S. Truman. It's even worse when people say "Hussein did this or that."
I'd swap out Harry S. Truman for Ulysses S. Grant. I've always noticed that the number of sources that refer to him as Harry Truman were more numerous than Harry S. Truman.
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  #12  
Old 05-06-2012, 04:19 AM
elfkin477 elfkin477 is offline
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
99% of the time? Abso-fucking-lutely! My middle name is shared with a Saint, a douchebag, and a bunch of kings, allowing for translations.

The only Presidents who have relevant full middle names that need to be mentioned are John Quincy Adams, George W. Bush, and their dads, as a disambiguation; William Henry Harrison, Taft, and any President where it would be weird not to use an initial as a general rule, like John F. Kennedy and Harry S. Truman. It's even worse when people say "Hussein did this or that."

Another right wing term for him I've seen is "Barry," because I guess he used that as his nickname for awhile. I don't know what the justification behind that is, like if it means he was hiding his "Muslim" heritage or what.
Yep. The only compelling reason to use a president's middle name is to avoid confusion with someone else, or if he (or she) uses it themselves.
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  #13  
Old 05-06-2012, 04:22 AM
Raguleader Raguleader is online now
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
e seen is "Barry," because I guess he used that as his nickname for awhile. I don't know what the justification behind that is, like if it means he was hiding his "Muslim" heritage or what.
I think it's just because Barry is a diminutive name, kind of like how folks referred to George W. Bush as "Dubya" or "Shrub" from time to time when they were criticizing or mocking him.
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  #14  
Old 05-06-2012, 04:50 AM
DearestDane DearestDane is offline
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Context is (almost) everything.

In those rare cases when people use my own middle name, it definitely has an affirmative meaning. Because of the context.

In almost all those cases when people use Barack Obama's middle name, it has a dismissive meaning. Because of the context.

Nuff said.
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  #15  
Old 05-06-2012, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
Another right wing term for him I've seen is "Barry," because I guess he used that as his nickname for awhile. I don't know what the justification behind that is, like if it means he was hiding his "Muslim" heritage or what.
"Barry" alone is probably just using a childhood nickname to diminish the Prez. However, "Barry Soetero" usually turns up among the he's-not-a-citizen brigade. It turns out that young Barack was indeed enrolled in at least one school in Indonesia under that name. Now, you and I would say that this was because Indonesia had looser standards about identity at that time, and it was just easier not to invite questions about why the little boy's last name wasn't the same as his mother's. But there are folks who insist it's because a) he was legally adopted by his step-father which b) stripped him of his US citizenship. The problem with this theory is a) there's no evidence he was ever legally adopted and b) it would make no difference to his citizenship if he was, because the citizenship laws don't work that way. And yet the conspiracy theory lives on.
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  #16  
Old 05-06-2012, 05:47 AM
Attack from the 3rd dimension Attack from the 3rd dimension is offline
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Let's take the example of Curtis LeMay. His middle name is Emerson. There's no particular reason that I should ever bring up his middle name under normal circumstances. However, if there were a rumor that he was gay, and I wanted to subtly reinforce this concept, I might always use "Emerson" when referring to him, as it's not a strong short macho type name, and it is the last name of a poet. So clearly I have an agenda that I'm trying to reinforce by my particular word choice.

If I wanted to make the other side of the case, he'd always be "Bombs Away" LeMay.

Last edited by Attack from the 3rd dimension; 05-06-2012 at 05:48 AM..
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  #17  
Old 05-06-2012, 06:53 AM
Donnerwetter Donnerwetter is offline
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It's fair to say that Rush Limbaugh probably doesn't frequently refer to the President as Barack Hussein Obama because he is a diligent journalist who wants to be as precise as possible all the time.

On a different note, I think that middle initials are often used to make a person's name sound more rhythmic, i. e. Harry S. Truman vs. Harry Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson vs. Lyndon Johnson or George W. Bush vs. George Bush.
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  #18  
Old 05-06-2012, 08:49 AM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is offline
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They standard rule for journalists is that you use the form of the name and pronunciation the person prefers to use. If you use a different name, you are showing a lack of respect and a partisan bias.
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  #19  
Old 05-06-2012, 09:51 AM
What the .... ?!?! What the .... ?!?! is offline
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Originally Posted by Kozmik View Post
And then even they don't get it right, it's Barack Hussein Obama II. (At least, according to Wikipedia.)
Then we'd get called out for identifying him to closely with his father, who wasn't the greatest role model and was even on a US/UK watch list.
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  #20  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:02 AM
Johnny L.A. Johnny L.A. is offline
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Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huangdi View Post
"Franklin Delano Roosevelt"
Isn't 'del ano' Spanish for 'of the anus'? It didn't keep him from being a great president.
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  #21  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:26 AM
leahcim leahcim is offline
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Using his full name in a neutral context, not partisan at all.

But to a number of right-wingers it's become the equivalent of a bratty little brother in the back seat of the car holding his finger right next to his sister's ear saying, "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you..."

"I'm not arguing that people with part of their name in common have to share the same political opinions -- that would be stupid. And I'm not saying that the president having a Muslim-sounding name means he's a bad person -- that would be racist. I'm just saying the president's full legal name: Barack Hussein Obama, Barack Hussein Obama, Barack Hussein Obama. Are you telling me I can't say the president's name? (Which is Barack Hussein Obama, by the way). Maybe other people might try to make some political point regarding the presidents name (arack-bay ussein-hay bama-oay), but I'm just saying it, so don't even try to rebut any political point you think I might be making, because I'm just saying a name. Barack Hussein Obama."
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  #22  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:32 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnny L.A. View Post
Isn't 'del ano' Spanish for 'of the anus'? It didn't keep him from being a great president.
That'd be "del año," I think. "Del ano" could be "of the year," which is kind of prescient since FDR was named Time Magazine's Man of the Year three times.
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  #23  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:52 AM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is online now
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Agree with leahcim. When I see/hear someone refering to him as "Barack Hussein Obama" (in a non-formal context), my assumption is that that person is petty, and I don't have much regard for anything else they're saying.
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  #24  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:59 AM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
That'd be "del año," I think. "Del ano" could be "of the year," which is kind of prescient since FDR was named Time Magazine's Man of the Year three times.
No, año is year and ano is anus.
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  #25  
Old 05-06-2012, 12:48 PM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is online now
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
The only Presidents who have relevant full middle names that need to be mentioned are John Quincy Adams, George W. Bush, and their dads, as a disambiguation; William Henry Harrison, Taft, and any President where it would be weird not to use an initial as a general rule, like John F. Kennedy and Harry S. Truman. It's even worse when people say "Hussein did this or that."
Truman is kind of a special case. S is his middle name, to honor both his grandfathers, Anderson Shipp Truman and Solomon Young. Whether to put a period after the S is not entirely cut-and-dried, although his presidential library and the AP stylebook both do.
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  #26  
Old 05-06-2012, 01:09 PM
Fear Itself Fear Itself is offline
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Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
Agree with leahcim. When I see/hear someone refering to him as "Barack Hussein Obama" (in a non-formal context), my assumption is that that person is petty, and I don't have much regard for anything else they're saying.
Especially when they throw in a "Barry Sotero" soon after.
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  #27  
Old 05-06-2012, 01:18 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Originally Posted by Donnerwetter View Post
On a different note, I think that middle initials are often used to make a person's name sound more rhythmic, i. e. Harry S. Truman vs. Harry Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson vs. Lyndon Johnson or George W. Bush vs. George Bush.
In Bush's case, it was originally to distingush him from his father, the first George Bush.
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Old 05-06-2012, 01:59 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is online now
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Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
Truman is kind of a special case. S is his middle name, to honor both his grandfathers, Anderson Shipp Truman and Solomon Young. Whether to put a period after the S is not entirely cut-and-dried, although his presidential library and the AP stylebook both do.
Yeah, I know, I had to check, and went with Wikipedia's style even though no-period is kind of more interesting.

And a more than a decade ago, he was "George Bush," but now it seems that "George H.W. Bush" is used more, at least non-casually.

Last edited by thelurkinghorror; 05-06-2012 at 02:01 PM..
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  #29  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:17 PM
Earl Snake-Hips Tucker Earl Snake-Hips Tucker is offline
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Mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack Hussein Obama
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Old 05-06-2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
Yeah, I know, I had to check, and went with Wikipedia's style even though no-period is kind of more interesting.

And a more than a decade ago, he was "George Bush," but now it seems that "George H.W. Bush" is used more, at least non-casually.
I've also heard him referred to as "#41", at least at Texas A&M where one of the schools and a library is named after him, complete with a diner called "The Forty-One". Fun guy if you ever get a chance to see him speak in person. Does a great H. Ross Perot impersonation (evidently the two are or used to be friends).
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  #31  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:44 PM
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Yes, it's partisan in most contexts. He doesn't go by it, so unless you're writing a biography or something (as mentioned), it really shouldn't be used.

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Originally Posted by leahcim View Post
"I'm not arguing that people with part of their name in common have to share the same political opinions -- that would be stupid. And I'm not saying that the president having a Muslim-sounding name means he's a bad person -- that would be racist. I'm just saying the president's full legal name: Barack Hussein Obama, Barack Hussein Obama, Barack Hussein Obama. Are you telling me I can't say the president's name? (Which is Barack Hussein Obama, by the way). Maybe other people might try to make some political point regarding the presidents name (arack-bay ussein-hay bama-oay), but I'm just saying it, so don't even try to rebut any political point you think I might be making, because I'm just saying a name. Barack Hussein Obama."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmiKenqLVAU

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Originally Posted by The Second Stone View Post
He doesn't go by his middle name. Some people want to evoke hatred of Muslims and his name is an obviously Muslim name. It would kinda be like if someone's last name was Kim and whenever we used their full name in a sentence then we referred to Kim Jong Un or Kim Jong Ill to remind everyone about those heathen, commie, tyrannical, mass-murdering Kims. Really unfair to the zillions of Kims who would never do such a thing, but there are worse things than being partisan. Like being partisan on the side of the Kims!

I don't think it's the fact that it's a Muslim name, I don't think Barack Aahil Obama would get nearly as much mileage. I think it's more the fact that it specifically draws similarity to one Saddam Hussein Abd al-Majid al-Tikriti.
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  #32  
Old 05-06-2012, 04:24 PM
kunilou kunilou is offline
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It's interesting that my grandfather, my father and I all share the same first and last name and even with that the only times we ever used our middle names was when we were signing some sort of document where our identities might have been confused (like listing a beneficiary on an insurance policy or a will.)

So if Barack Obama isn't all that concerned about being confused with all the other Barack Obamas, I won't worry about it either.
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  #33  
Old 05-06-2012, 04:24 PM
Beastly Rotter Beastly Rotter is offline
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Originally Posted by Attack from the 3rd dimension View Post
Let's take the example of Curtis LeMay. His middle name is Emerson. There's no particular reason that I should ever bring up his middle name under normal circumstances. However, if there were a rumor that he was gay, and I wanted to subtly reinforce this concept, I might always use "Emerson" when referring to him, as it's not a strong short macho type name, and it is the last name of a poet. So clearly I have an agenda that I'm trying to reinforce by my particular word choice.
Emerson Fittipaldi would like a word with you.
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  #34  
Old 05-06-2012, 05:46 PM
samclem samclem is offline
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Originally Posted by What the .... ?!?! View Post
Then we'd get called out for identifying him to closely with his father, who wasn't the greatest role model and was even on a US/UK watch list.
Who's "we?"

I assume you meant "too" rather than "to."
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  #35  
Old 05-06-2012, 07:10 PM
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What about Hilary Rodham Clinton? Is that also partisan in some way?
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:35 PM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is offline
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What about Hilary Rodham Clinton? Is that also partisan in some way?
I thought that was her choice? Or at least acceptable to her. A way of including her maiden name. I notice that her Wiki page calls her that.

Last edited by Der Trihs; 05-06-2012 at 09:37 PM..
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:45 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is online now
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Not unless the word "Rod-ham" makes you giggle like a twelve-year old.

And I believe she herself uses it publicly. A very crappy analogy about this thread topic would be if you knew someone who had "Wayne" as a middle name, and you kept overemphasizing it to imply he was a serial killer.
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  #38  
Old 05-06-2012, 09:53 PM
Antinor01 Antinor01 is online now
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Not unless the word "Rod-ham" makes you giggle like a twelve-year old.

And I believe she herself uses it publicly. A very crappy analogy about this thread topic would be if you knew someone who had "Wayne" as a middle name, and you kept overemphasizing it to imply he was a serial killer.
She does. It is listed that way on the Secretary of State website.
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  #39  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:08 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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What about Hilary Rodham Clinton? Is that also partisan in some way?
No, since she's chosen to go by that name at least some of the time. In fact I remember there were some polls in 2008 that indicated she polled better as Hillary Rodham Clinton than as Hillary Clinton, but her official campaign stuff tended to say Hillary Clinton.
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  #40  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:10 PM
Namkcalb Namkcalb is offline
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Barack H. Obama isn't too bratty and it fits with John F Kennedy and George W. Bush.

Barack Hussein Suteo-Obama Al-Kenya'i Junior however... well, that's just an attempt at mudslinging when you don't have any mud.
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  #41  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:19 PM
MeanOldLady MeanOldLady is offline
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I recall once hearing Ann Coulter (or maybe Malkin, or some other cunt of that variety) refer to him as "B. Hussein Obama." Come on now.
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  #42  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:36 PM
DianaG DianaG is offline
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I object to that characterization. Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin don't deserve to be called cunts. Cunts are beautiful, useful, pleasure-having and providing things. Ann and Michelle would be more fairly characterized as boils or hemorrhoids.
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  #43  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:23 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
They standard rule for journalists is that you use the form of the name and pronunciation the person prefers to use. If you use a different name, you are showing a lack of respect and a partisan bias.
I remember during the recall election that replaced Gray Davis with Arnold Schwarzenegger, one Los Angeles radio station talk-show host insisted on referring to Davis as "Joe Davis." Since his formal given name is "Joseph Graham Davis," this could be taken as a sign of respect. But it wasn't... The same host next took to referring to him as "Gumby," making fun of the shape of his head and the cut of his hair.

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I object to that characterization. Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin don't deserve to be called cunts. Cunts are beautiful, useful, pleasure-having and providing things. Ann and Michelle would be more fairly characterized as boils or hemorrhoids.
Carbuncles.
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  #44  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:23 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Barack H. Obama isn't too bratty and it fits with John F Kennedy and George W. Bush.
There's nothing wrong with it, but there's also no reason to use it because that's not what he calls himself and it doesn't differentiate him from his father. The bottom line here is that he's never gone by his full name. It's absurd that it's become a partisan thing, but most of the time, it is: Republicans made it a partisan matter and Democrats reacted the way they usually do to this kind of silliness.

Last edited by Marley23; 05-06-2012 at 11:28 PM..
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  #45  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:32 PM
njtt njtt is online now
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And a more than a decade ago, he was "George Bush," but now it seems that "George H.W. Bush" is used more, at least non-casually.
The story is that, long before he was president, back when he was in the Air Force, George H.W. Bush's nickname, amongst the other pilots, was "George H.W. Bush."
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  #46  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:41 PM
Namkcalb Namkcalb is offline
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Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
There's nothing wrong with it, but there's also no reason to use it because that's not what he calls himself and it doesn't differentiate him from his father.
I think it flows better, and stops people abrevating it to BO/Body Odor.

In any case, they are all better than B. Hussain Obama. Did someone actually seriously call him that and not be laughed off the stage?

Last edited by Marley23; 05-07-2012 at 12:41 AM.. Reason: fixed quote tag
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  #47  
Old 05-06-2012, 11:57 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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I think it flows better
I disagree about the flow, personally. Barack Obama flows nicely; "Barack H. Obama!" may become a swear word in the future.

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and stops people abrevating it to BO/Body Odor.
...He's the president. That's just a little bit beneath his concerns, or anything you need to be concerned about on his behalf.
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  #48  
Old 05-07-2012, 12:05 AM
MeanOldLady MeanOldLady is offline
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In any case, they are all better than B. Hussain Obama. Did someone actually seriously call him that and not be laughed off the stage?
This really happened. But it was on Fox News, so...
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  #49  
Old 05-07-2012, 12:29 AM
PlainJain PlainJain is offline
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This is what I love about Qin's threads, he tosses out an OP like this one and hasn't been heard from since.




Even though he's posted 10 times since in other threads.
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  #50  
Old 05-07-2012, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlainJain View Post
This is what I love about Qin's threads, he tosses out an OP like this one and hasn't been heard from since.
If he does show up, ask him what he thinks. The answer to OP is so obvious, my only curiosity here is about OP's view.
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