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  #1  
Old 05-09-2012, 04:53 PM
Uncle Goat Uncle Goat is offline
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Nato Meeting.

You know, I wasn't really concerned one way or another about Nato coming to
Chicago. I think they are past their prime and most likely could be disbanded or
reduced, but what the hell, who cares?

Now Rahm is denying permits for protesters. The museums are going to be closed for three days and there is talk of getting out some major riot gear weeks in advance of anyone even showing up.

Christ. Might as well get a black flag and go march against the swine. They are so afraid there is going to be trouble, I would hate to disappoint them.
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2012, 05:31 PM
WhyNot WhyNot is online now
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Come by the Wellness Center and say hi. I'm volunteering there. I suspect I should take public transportation!
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  #3  
Old 05-10-2012, 12:48 AM
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is online now
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All I can say is that I'm really glad I no longer work downtown. Even if protests are orderly, it's still going to be a mess.
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  #4  
Old 05-10-2012, 07:42 AM
Uncle Goat Uncle Goat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
All I can say is that I'm really glad I no longer work downtown. Even if protests are orderly, it's still going to be a mess.
There is certainly the feeling that the police will be in huge numbers, no matter what size the protest. In an effort to keep things orderly, Rahm seems dead set on making a mess. They can't wait to spot some bike messenger not paying attention so they beat the crap out of him and claim he was an anarchist threatening the police. Any danger of things getting out hand seems to be set into motion by the authorities already.
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2012, 01:26 AM
Tim R. Mortiss Tim R. Mortiss is offline
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Just remember: the police aren't there to cause disorder. The police are there to preserve disorder.
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  #6  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:01 AM
Lochdale Lochdale is offline
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I'm not expecting much will happen. McCormack place is far enough from the loop and most of the protesters are all mouth and no trousers.
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  #7  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:27 AM
WhyNot WhyNot is online now
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I think 98.9% of the "disruption" is going to end up being caused by traffic re-routes, road closures, CTA rescheduling/closures/rerouting, pedestrian restrictions, parking restrictions... That's going to piss off more than the protesters.

I was forwarded a 9 page "memo" from law enforcement with this sort of stuff. The one thing I can't find details on, although they mention half a dozen times that they will be happening, is these "pedestrian restrictions". Sounds like they're either secret or will be completely arbitrary and made up on the spot.
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  #8  
Old 05-11-2012, 05:51 PM
threeorange threeorange is offline
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City officials have been saying that this summit will have a positive economic impact for the city, but I can't for the life of me see how. With prime parts of the city made anything from inconvenient to inaccessible, it seems to me that a lot of people, both locals and tourists, who would otherwise be out spending money on a May weekend will just stay home. I can't imagine that the spending of the diplomats, journalists, and protestors who will be coming to town can possibly offset that lost business activity.

Am I missing something?
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  #9  
Old 05-11-2012, 10:03 PM
Uncle Goat Uncle Goat is offline
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This is becoming increasingly funny -- in the most appalling way possible.

From Crain's Business: Workers at some Chicago office towers are being encouraged to dress down to avoid being targeted by protesters during the meeting of world leaders May 20 and 21. Safety procedures in some high-rises include the recommendation that employees set aside suits, ties and anything with corporate logos.


full article

So what happens if protesters show up in suits and ties?

Just to be safe, the cops should arrest everyone.

Or how about this gem? Secret Plan to Evacuate Chicago

Oh yeah. This is sounding better and better all the time. We should host NATO here year round. What jolly good times that would be.
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  #10  
Old 05-13-2012, 06:48 AM
Uncle Goat Uncle Goat is offline
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With the NATO summit now seven days away, I will leave here with these
final thoughts:

The Chicago Police Department has spent around a million dollars in riot gear.
The rub being that the police officers have to pony up their own cash for this
gear, roughly $3,000 to be fully outfitted in the latest US version of the Imperial Stormtrooper costume.

$3000 is a lot of donuts. No wonder they'll be grumpy. Watch out for each other, people. Because the Mayor of Chicago deeply hates anyone who is not a millionaire you are on your own.

Hope to see you on the streets, marching for peace and justice.
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  #11  
Old 05-13-2012, 07:37 PM
Cheryl44 Cheryl44 is offline
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The most apolitical person I know is so pissed about the nurses' permit she's showing up at Daley Plaza in support Friday. I guess I'm going with her. I wonder if I can get my address changed on my driver's license as long as I'm downtown. After all, people in their right minds will be staying away from the Express Office across from the plaza, right?
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  #12  
Old 05-14-2012, 10:23 PM
rowrrbazzle rowrrbazzle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Goat View Post
With the NATO summit now seven days away, I will leave here with these
final thoughts:

The Chicago Police Department has spent around a million dollars in riot gear.
The rub being that the police officers have to pony up their own cash for this
gear, roughly $3,000 to be fully outfitted in the latest US version of the Imperial Stormtrooper costume.
I know this isn't GQ, but do you have a reliable cite that the police have to pay personally for this?
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  #13  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:34 PM
Uncle Goat Uncle Goat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowrrbazzle View Post
I know this isn't GQ, but do you have a reliable cite that the police have to pay personally for this?
I'm always slightly puzzled by this type of question. I mean, to even post
here you have to be online. There's this thing called "Google" that allows you
to find info on a wide range of things.

But anyway: other than the cop I've known for 12 years who was
pissing and moaning about this, there's this bit on Chicago Cop Expenses And that's all the research I'm willing to do for you.

Like the rest of us, you're on your own.
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  #14  
Old 05-17-2012, 12:09 PM
Bob Ducca Bob Ducca is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Goat View Post
I'm always slightly puzzled by this type of question. I mean, to even post
here you have to be online. There's this thing called "Google" that allows you
to find info on a wide range of things.

But anyway: other than the cop I've known for 12 years who was
pissing and moaning about this, there's this bit on Chicago Cop Expenses And that's all the research I'm willing to do for you.

Like the rest of us, you're on your own.
Per that link, Chicago officers are provided $1,800 per year as a uniform allowance. So that at least helps mitigate some of the costs.

Nobody is forced into this profession so they know that there are costs involved with the job. Most jobs that require a uniform also require the employee to purchase that uniform. Nurses have to buy their own scrubs, Wall Street bankers have to buy their own suits, chefs have to buy their own kitchen-appropriate shoes, pants, etc. I don't see this as being all that different.
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  #15  
Old 05-17-2012, 12:20 PM
hogarth hogarth is offline
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Originally Posted by Uncle Goat View Post
Any danger of things getting out hand seems to be set into motion by the authorities already.
Maybe you're more of an optimist than I am, but I don't think that complete disinvolvement by the authorities would eliminate "any danger of things getting out of hand".
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  #16  
Old 05-18-2012, 10:37 PM
rowrrbazzle rowrrbazzle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Goat View Post
I'm always slightly puzzled by this type of question. I mean, to even post
here you have to be online. There's this thing called "Google" that allows you
to find info on a wide range of things.

But anyway: other than the cop I've known for 12 years who was
pissing and moaning about this, there's this bit on Chicago Cop Expenses And that's all the research I'm willing to do for you.

Like the rest of us, you're on your own.
Well then, allow me to unpuzzle you. It's YOUR claim. The burden of proof is on YOU and no one else. The research you do is for YOURSELF to back up YOUR claim. YOU present the evidence.

You also said
Quote:
The Chicago Police Department has spent around a million dollars in riot gear.
The rub being that the police officers have to pony up their own cash for this
gear, roughly $3,000 to be fully outfitted in the latest US version of the Imperial Stormtrooper costume. $3000 is a lot of donuts. No wonder they'll be grumpy.
I interpreted this as the riot gear alone would personally cost each officer $3000, and this was making them especially "grumpy". That would be understandable, and the magnitude of the individual cost would certainly have produced one hell of a lot of public complaining and would have been a big news story. But there have been no such stories.

But I apologize if my interpretation was mistaken.
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2012, 07:41 AM
Uncle Goat Uncle Goat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowrrbazzle View Post
Well then, allow me to unpuzzle you. It's YOUR claim. The burden of proof is on YOU and no one else. The research you do is for YOURSELF to back up YOUR claim. YOU present the evidence.
While being skeptical about anything online is a good thing, this is a pointless
proposal. Anything found can be disputed. Any "proof" offered can be dismissed, and piling on evidence for a skeptic to smirk at is a waste of time. Take it or leave it as you like. I certainly do not claim to be expert on anything, and I certainly don't have the time to back up every remark made here with footnotes, historical background, photos, or links to satisfy some other poster.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rowrrbazzle View Post
You also said I interpreted this as the riot gear alone would personally cost each officer $3000, and this was making them especially "grumpy". That would be understandable, and the magnitude of the individual cost would certainly have produced one hell of a lot of public complaining and would have been a big news story. But there have been no such stories.

But I apologize if my interpretation was mistaken.
I suppose there are no stories because going to the Tribune to whine about having to shell out money for riot gear would be seen as disloyalty. Who knows? Maybe the police are a closed-mouth group of people who don't rush to the press every time something they don't like happens. Maybe cops see each other as belonging to some kind of special brotherhood and they don't like outsiders snooping in. Maybe stories only breakout when something major happens, like when cops torture a person. Okay, that story might take 20 years to get out.

At the same token, there are no stories about Tribune editorial staff clearly siding with the police over the protesters. Nor are there any stories about the impact this very discussion has had upon expanding human understanding. I guess some things just aren't covered. I have no proof on that, because there aren't any links showing that no one gives a damn about this discussion. So I could be wrong.


But anyway: some people in Bridgeport arrested and held without charge. Big story in the paper. You heard it here last!
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  #18  
Old 05-19-2012, 08:02 AM
WhyNot WhyNot is online now
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Actually, what I'm reading and hearing in the news is a lot of stuff about how the police AREN'T wearing riot gear (for the most part) and turtle shells. That McCarthy is using "bend, don't break" techniques and a sizeable moving presence walking/biking/riding with the protesters, rather than human walls and kettling and blockades.

...and that's been verified and supported so far by all the protesters themselves that I'm talking to at the Wellness Center. There's a lot of nervousness, a shitton of rumors among the protesters, and a few actual incidents with police, but sofarknockonwood things have been pretty civil all around.

Of course, people keep pouring in, and it's the protesters with Occupy who hop on a bus and come here with no plan for where to stay and no supplies and no resources that worry me more than anything else. Exhaustion, hunger and cold/heat exposure can cause more temper flares than riot gear, and are public health concerns all by themselves. We shall see...

The Bridgeport arrests were total bullshit. But it's not like no one's been reporting it; I heard the first radio report on WBBM Thursday. Met a couple of the guys last night. They looked like they'd been dragged through a hedgerow backwards, and needed a place to sleep pretty badly, but appeared to be otherwise uninjured (although I did not complete an exam or anything, just pointed to pillows and blankets and let them crash.)

Last edited by WhyNot; 05-19-2012 at 08:02 AM..
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:22 PM
WhyNot WhyNot is online now
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So I had a Very Special Guest at the Wellness Center today!

A Doper (whom I shall not name, 'cause I don't know if he'd want me to) sent me a PM saying that he had room to put up a few protesters in his apartment, with his phone number to call for details. I did, but got his voicemail.

He came by to visit! And not only that, but he brought us a bunch of local maps, including local maps with restaurants and local maps with stores marked...so very cool. Exactly what people keep asking me for and all I've been able to do is point at the very ancient very tattered and torn map of all of Chicagoland on the wall.

So much fun to meet Dopers in real life, especially an interesting, generous (and handsome, I might add) Doper!
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  #20  
Old 05-19-2012, 11:12 PM
Uncle Goat Uncle Goat is offline
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My wife took some camera/videos of the empty downtown area.
Beautiful weather, Saturday afternoon and the city is nearly empty.
Lake Shore Drive closed near the museums, snow plow trucks parked to block
the bike lane, forcing people to go around them. Nice to see the City that Works transformed into the City that Worries. Thanks Rahm!

One has to wonder how much money has been lost just so Rahm can have bragging rights about some NATO stooges being in Chicago.

Sunday is the Big Event, so we'll see how that goes.

No more war, no more Nato, no more fear.
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2012, 07:27 PM
Cheryl44 Cheryl44 is offline
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Well, it seems like it went off pretty well today. I am at work, though not in the Loop nor south of it. It's quiet around here, other than police stopping in to make sure everything is okay.
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  #22  
Old 05-20-2012, 07:44 PM
WhyNot WhyNot is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl44 View Post
Well, it seems like it went off pretty well today. I am at work, though not in the Loop nor south of it. It's quiet around here, other than police stopping in to make sure everything is okay.
There was a bit of ugliness between 5 and 6ish. I was watching it on the news, where they covered it live and uninterrupted. Much as I support the things many of the protesters are protesting, they really were asking for those conks on the noggin'. They weren't kettled, they were merely prevented from moving forward and told to go back the other way. They didn't. Some of the black bloc guys started throwing things, and some protesters got knocked around with batons and arrested.

It looked for a bit like they were going to deploy the LRAD or pepper spray (they brought the LRAD in, and at one point about half the officers donned gas masks at once, but then they took them off again), but by the time the news got bored and stopped live coverage around 6:30, they were just dispersing the crowd by walking them back and plucking the violent ones out for arrest.

Since the violent ones, by and large, want to be arrested (for cred, for raising awareness, for satisfying their own sense of paranoia and persecution), I'm not shedding too many tears for them. I just hope none of the (numerically superior) peaceful folks got in the way and got hurt.
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  #23  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:16 PM
Uncle Goat Uncle Goat is offline
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The general mood of the people I've talked to agree with
WhyNot completely. Going out of the way to provoke an
arrest is just foolish. It should be easy enough to get the
FBI to set a person up as a terrorist, if that's what one
really wants.

The message to the cops should be that the 1% are
forcing you to buy equipment you don't want or need,
and that after the pensions for teachers,
nurses and public transit works are gone, your
pensions are going to be next. The revolution becomes
successful when the police and soldiers join the
people in the street.
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  #24  
Old 05-21-2012, 01:25 PM
Uncle Goat Uncle Goat is offline
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And so it goes.

Great news story in the UK Guardian -- naturally, not something the Tribune would run -- here

Democracy, after all, is something only the Arab nations should have -- as long as
they agree with the policies of the oil companies.
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  #25  
Old 05-21-2012, 11:30 PM
buttonjockey308 buttonjockey308 is offline
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There's a saying on the south side of Chicago where I'm from; Don't start nothin' and there won't BE nothin'. They came HERE, they wanted to incite violence HERE, they wanted to force the hand of the police to defend themselves and fight back. I live here, I pay taxes here, I work here and I play here.

If the cops tell me that an area is locked down, I will go somewhere else. If I stand and fight and demand to be let in to that locked down area, I should well expect to have my ass handed to me and when it does, I won't go crying to twitter about it.
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  #26  
Old 05-22-2012, 10:12 AM
Wheelz Wheelz is offline
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My thoughts, now that it's all over...

I'd be surprised if more than 10% of the "protesters" even have a strong opinion about NATO or its policies. What I saw was a chance for a bunch of hipsters to have a big ol' party in the streets. I saw people dancing, laughing, and looking like they were having a great time. What was their message? What were they actually protesting? Beats me. Some of them were chanting stuff like "Democracy is a sham!" Um, okay...

A few of them seemed more interested in being a disruptive nuisance more than anything else. Some people get off on that kind of thing. But most seemed to just be hanging around because it was the cool thing to do.

I think the police, for the most part, handled themselves admirably. I didn't see anyone's First Amendment rights being denied. A small handful of protesters decided to cross a line and physically attack the cops, and rightfully got smacked down for it. The First Amendment doesn't include the right to assault a cop. Police reacted to individuals acting in a violent manner, not to the group in general. Things could have gotten very out of hand if the cops didn't show the restraint they did.

As for the supposed economic benefits to the City, Emanuel never claimed that the conference would create a windfall this weekend. His argument was that Chicago would be shown across the globe to be a world-class city that people would want to visit. While I'm skeptical of this, at least let's be fair about what the short-term and long-term claims were being made.

Overall, I'm glad it's over, I'm glad nothing terrible happened, and I'm glad the G8 got pulled to Camp David; otherwise this would have gone on twice as long as it did, tensions would have become more and more strained, and we might well have been talking about a different story right now.
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  #27  
Old 05-22-2012, 12:17 PM
MeanOldLady MeanOldLady is online now
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So that was it? Three antagonistic hippies making noise at the police, but an otherwise non-event? Getting in and out of downtown was a cakewalk, and nothing out of the ordinary happened except the area being completely abandoned, save for the shitload of cops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Goat View Post
This is becoming increasingly funny -- in the most appalling way possible.

From Crain's Business: Workers at some Chicago office towers are being encouraged to dress down to avoid being targeted by protesters during the meeting of world leaders May 20 and 21. Safety procedures in some high-rises include the recommendation that employees set aside suits, ties and anything with corporate logos.
Ridiculous. At least I got to wear jeans to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyNot View Post
So I had a Very Special Guest at the Wellness Center today!

A Doper (whom I shall not name, 'cause I don't know if he'd want me to) sent me a PM saying that he had room to put up a few protesters in his apartment, with his phone number to call for details. I did, but got his voicemail.

He came by to visit! And not only that, but he brought us a bunch of local maps, including local maps with restaurants and local maps with stores marked...so very cool.
It was Rand Rover, wasn't it?
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  #28  
Old 05-22-2012, 03:19 PM
WhyNot WhyNot is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanOldLady View Post

It was Rand Rover, wasn't it?
LOL, No, but that would have been AWESOME.

I'm assuming he'd rather remain anonymous, since he hasn't posted to claim his laurels, and I will honor that.

There was a bit more violence than the news reports let on...and I missed most of it. But talking with my fellow medics and looking at the condition of the supply closet, there was a "mass casualty incident" at the Wellness Center Sunday night. A couple dozen people sent to ERs for more care and documentation than our folks could provide, others treated on site who refused further care. A lot of baton whacks to the heads, cuts, bruises, eye jabs, that sort of thing. Some pretty impressive skull lacerations (one more than 8 inches long and down to the skull - ouch!), a couple of gut jabs and possible broken ribs. One broken leg. A couple of unilateral nonreactive pupils (not a good thing from a neurological standpoint.) I patched up a few more that wandered in Monday morning after being released from jail.

Still, everyone, protesters included, agreed that it could have been far, far worse.
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  #29  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:45 PM
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
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Oh, I don't mind being named. Mean Old Lady knows me from the meetup last Dec.

Sunday night the Wellness Center sent me one of the casualties, a young fellow whose arm had been battered in the Michigan & Cermak clash. He was a polite and pleasant Minnesotan who now was riding the rails and Occupying various cities, but he stank and didn't seem interested in my suggestions that surely he'd like to take a long hot shower or launder his clothes. And he had a dog with him. She was a seven-month-old black Lab, who was very friendly and well behaved. Except that her owner slept 12 hours and then thought she could wait a few minutes to go out. She couldn't. So I ended up with both a liquid mess on the tile entryway—not so bad—and a half-hour later a big steaming semisolid mess on the carpet in my study. I feel like I've done my part for Chicago hospitality.

Last edited by Mr Downtown; 05-22-2012 at 11:47 PM..
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  #30  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:33 AM
WhyNot WhyNot is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
Oh, I don't mind being named. Mean Old Lady knows me from the meetup last Dec.

Sunday night the Wellness Center sent me one of the casualties, a young fellow whose arm had been battered in the Michigan & Cermak clash. He was a polite and pleasant Minnesotan who now was riding the rails and Occupying various cities, but he stank and didn't seem interested in my suggestions that surely he'd like to take a long hot shower or launder his clothes. And he had a dog with him. She was a seven-month-old black Lab, who was very friendly and well behaved. Except that her owner slept 12 hours and then thought she could wait a few minutes to go out. She couldn't. So I ended up with both a liquid mess on the tile entryway—not so bad—and a half-hour later a big steaming semisolid mess on the carpet in my study. I feel like I've done my part for Chicago hospitality.
Oh, jeez. Yes, I met the duo in question too. Intense young man, very sweet dog. So sorry about the hazardous waste cleanup. But thanks again for the maps. You have no idea what a hit they were. And thanks to the restaurant map, I have now discovered Epic Burgers. Which are indeed epic, and I'll be taking my SO there for lunch one of these days.
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  #31  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:41 PM
rowrrbazzle rowrrbazzle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Goat View Post
While being skeptical about anything online is a good thing, this is a pointless proposal. Anything found can be disputed. Any "proof" offered can be dismissed, and piling on evidence for a skeptic to smirk at is a waste of time. Take it or leave it as you like.
An unsupported declaration is very little to take or leave. I feel absolutely no regret in leaving it or any such declaration. And the way you dismiss skeptics is curiously like that used by phony psychics.
Quote:
I certainly do not claim to be expert on anything
I know you didn't, and I didn't say you had to be.
Quote:
and I certainly don't have the time to back up every remark made here with footnotes, historical background, photos, or links to satisfy some other poster.
I didn't ask for all that. Here's what I did originally ask for: "do you have a reliable cite that the police have to pay personally for this?" That is, $3k just for new riot equipment. You gave not one reliable cite to support this, only a link to their normal expenses and one source (and anonymous, at that).

Quote:
I suppose there are no stories because going to the Tribune to whine about having to shell out money for riot gear would be seen as disloyalty. Who knows? Maybe the police are a closed-mouth group of people who don't rush to the press every time something they don't like happens. Maybe cops see each other as belonging to some kind of special brotherhood and they don't like outsiders snooping in.
And yet here are TWO separate articles about the police complaining about NATO overtime compensation (which I'd be willing to bet involves less than $3k or the equivalent per officer):
http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhal...er-ot-pay.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...ummit-overtime

So much for your "maybe's".

And it took me 5 minutes to Google it. So when I see someone who won't even do that, I know their opinions are not worth taking seriously.

Last edited by rowrrbazzle; 05-25-2012 at 10:43 PM..
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  #32  
Old 05-26-2012, 08:02 AM
Uncle Goat Uncle Goat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowrrbazzle View Post
And it took me 5 minutes to Google it..
Ah, then you DO you know how to use it! Good for you!
I am heartened that you took my advice and did some
work on your own. Rewards can be found in the search
of self awareness and you are taking the first faulting steps.
Hooray!

I still can't find the link showing that anyone cares about
any of this, but I'm sure something will pop up soon.
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  #33  
Old 05-29-2012, 05:34 PM
doorhinge doorhinge is offline
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It looks like the NATO protests turned out to be much ado about nothing. A few resturants lost business for 1 or 2 days and the museums were closed but businesses either worked from home or from a satallite location. Train, bus and car traffic flowed smoothly.

Most Chicagoans found something else to do for the weekend.

The protestors had very, very, little local support.
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  #34  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:52 PM
Rand Rover Rand Rover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorhinge View Post
The protestors had very, very, little local support.
Hmm, wonder why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
Sunday night the Wellness Center sent me one of the casualties, a young fellow whose arm had been battered in the Michigan & Cermak clash. He was a polite and pleasant Minnesotan who now was riding the rails and Occupying various cities, but he stank and didn't seem interested in my suggestions that surely he'd like to take a long hot shower or launder his clothes. And he had a dog with him. She was a seven-month-old black Lab, who was very friendly and well behaved. Except that her owner slept 12 hours and then thought she could wait a few minutes to go out. She couldn't. So I ended up with both a liquid mess on the tile entryway—not so bad—and a half-hour later a big steaming semisolid mess on the carpet in my study. I feel like I've done my part for Chicago hospitality.
OK, not wondering any more.
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