Co-signing a child's lease

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

My youngest girl is just about to graduate college, and I've offered to help her get herself set up--she's looking for an apartment to share with some friends in the Boston area, which is great because I'll be able to visit her there. She's just the most reliable, honest, most mature kid I can imagine, so there's no worries there, but her prospective landlord has informed her that he needs a parent to cosign the lease.

I don't mind a bit helping her out in this way, but people who've done this, or anything like this, may be able to tell me what to watch out for in the lease, what a reasonable liability to take on might be, what safeguards I can ask for, what limits to my responsibilities are. Asking this, I realize that I don't even know what to look out for. Anyone been here, done this?

[iftheresaway]

Not too much to offer except an anecdote. My dad co-signed my first lease (and took me apartment hunting on the day of my 18th birthday, which I greatly appreciated), with no trouble. I was also always mature/ responsible, etc., and we'd talked about finances so he knew I wasn't getting in over my head. At the one-year mark when I went to a month-to-month lease, the apartment company took his name off the lease.

[Hello Again]

In general, by cosigning on the lease, you are agreeing to be bound by the lease as if you lived there as a tenant in fact. Unless the lease specifies something different, you are liable for the full sum of the lease in the event that any of your cotenants default (such as your daughter's slackass friends). You are not only liable for the divided share your daughter plans to pay, unless that is specified.

Look, if me, Bob, and Jane sign a lease obligating us to pay $2100/mo, and if we agree to each pay a third -- our agreement isn't binding on the landlord. If Bob and Jane run off together to Tangiers, I still owe the full $2100. I can sue Jane and Bob for contribution, if I can find them, but in the immediate I am obligated to pay in full and so will you be, if this happens to your daughter and she is unable to pay. Unless the agreement says otherwise

BTW, It is not uncommon for leases in college towns to have any number of illegal and unenforcable clauses. It is not unusual for municipalities to have local laws regarding renting rights and obligations. Your best bet for accurate local information about what is permitted and what isn't is a tenant's union (also not uncommon in college towns). Here's one I found:
Boston tenant Coalition

IAAL, not your lawyer, and not a real estate lawyer

ETA: my parents cosigned my first lease and it worked out fine BUT I lived alone.

[legalsnugs]

IMHO, don't do this unless you are prepared to pay the entire rent every single month for the length of the lease. I know, your kid's different and won't let you down. That's great, but don't do this unless you're prepared to pay the entire rent every month for the length of the lease, because if you co-sign, that's what you're saying you're prepared to do.

And read the lease BEFORE you sign it.

Best of luck and best wishes for your child's launch.


[IAAL, but I am not your lawyer, blah, blah, blah, anonymous message board advice, yadda, yadda.]

[Lanzy]

Co-signing is exactly like signing, they just come after you second if shit goes wrong.

I did it for my children and was never worried, some people have different experiences.

[Tom Tildrum]

On the upside, you could move in any time you wanted.

[VOW]

As soon as you said "roommates," I started hyperventilating.

NOT ONLY can you get stuck for the entire rent, for the duration of the lease, BUT if the roommates morph into alien mutant creatures from Hell who live like pigs, punch holes in the walls, rip out plumbing and destroy appliances, guess who will get the bill?

Your daughter would be much better off living solo in the proverbial "broom closet over a bowling alley" than taking on roommates AND having you co-sign on the lease.

Just watch a few episodes of "Judge Judy"...


~VOW

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

Just to be clear, I'm not asking if co-signing is wise. I'm going to do it, my girl deserves my full support and this is a tangible way of providing it--I'm just looking for safeguards, ways to minimize my exposure, ways to curtail my liability. I don't think persuading her to get an apartment by herself will work, given housing prices in the area, but that would be one way to get some peace of mind. I know how flaky roommates can be, having been one and having had many in my time, but I think that's a given. But how about limiting my liability to a single year? How about negotiating the landlord's responsibility to rent the apartment out in case they need to break the lease?

[SnakesCatLady]

Originally Posted by VOW

As soon as you said "roommates," I started hyperventilating.

NOT ONLY can you get stuck for the entire rent, for the duration of the lease, BUT if the roommates morph into alien mutant creatures from Hell who live like pigs, punch holes in the walls, rip out plumbing and destroy appliances, guess who will get the bill?

Your daughter would be much better off living solo in the proverbial "broom closet over a bowling alley" than taking on roommates AND having you co-sign on the lease.

Just watch a few episodes of "Judge Judy"...


~VOW

This, quoted for truth.

My best friend bought a house in the town where her oldest daughter, and now her youngest daughter, went to college. When youngest daughter started college, a "friend" from high school asked to be a roommate.

Oh my. I know kids can get a little wild when they get out from under Mommy and Daddy's thumb, but this was an entire personality change. This girl lost her freaking mind. My friend ended up having to bring the girl's parents into the fray.

So no matter how much your daughter trusts her roommates to be, do not sign the lease unless you are prepared for the financial ramifications. It may all be wonderful and all is good. Just be prepared.

ETA: sorry, you hadn't replied when I started my post.

[Disheavel]

This happened all of the time in NYC while I was there. Lots of young people had to get cosigning parents; however, in order to make it "fair". I knew several tenants with the co-signing parents demanded (usually unknown to the other renters) a higher rent rate/portion than their own child paid. Or they even had the "kids" pay an extra final months rent check or had an added fee that would add up to the final months rent at the end of the year. You are putting yourself at risk and should get some benefit as compensation.

It takes a lot of finagling to pull off different rent schemes (especially among friends), but when I hear stories about how the electric company has gone after parents 4-7 years later for the final electrical bill not being paid (and in one case, it appeared that they never ended service so the next tenant just moved in and had electricity for 6+ months at the previous tenant's expense, but the collection agency takes years and all documentation is long gone), I have ZERO interest in co-signing without some strong legal documents and plans in place.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally Posted by pseudotriton ruber ruber

Just to be clear, I'm not asking if co-signing is wise. I'm going to do it, my girl deserves my full support and this is a tangible way of providing it--I'm just looking for safeguards, ways to minimize my exposure, ways to curtail my liability. I don't think persuading her to get an apartment by herself will work, given housing prices in the area, but that would be one way to get some peace of mind. I know how flaky roommates can be, having been one and having had many in my time, but I think that's a given. But how about limiting my liability to a single year? How about negotiating the landlord's responsibility to rent the apartment out in case they need to break the lease?

I would suggest that you insist that all occupants are on the lease, and that all the other occupants have a parent co-sign as well.

At least then if you wind up footing the whole bill, you can collect from the dead-beat kids as well as their parents. (Parents tend to have deeper pockets making collection easier. )

[Disheavel]

I think I covered most of your clarification points, but I don't think you are going to get much success in negotiating with the landlord. From what I've heard and seen, rentals (at least worthwhile ones) are not like the housing market. A landlord is most likely not going to want to deal with you or any demands. You can try, but I'm willing to bet that anything outside of a "standard contract" is unlikely.

So to cover yourself (I am really really not a lawyer):
1. All roommates must sign a legal agreement with your daughter and/or you stating that they will be responsible for all of their charges. List charges and utilities they will be partially responsible for.
a. How long the agreement should last as well. They are responsible for the rent until the end of the agreement. Eviction by you can be done in 30 days after a 2nd warning.

2. Extensions or changes must be agreed to in writing by both parties more than 30 days before the effective change.

3. Get EVERYTHING in writing. Provide them a copy.

4. One months rent as a deposit to be repaid within 10 days after the end of the lease/agreement.

5. 10% premium (either as a "tax" on top of their rent and utilities or as a reduction in your daughter's share)- this is just a risk sharing/business opportunity cost to the risk taker - also, your daughter will be hounding them for their bill/rent shares and doing the banking as such. This takes time and is annoying as hell, so do it as a business would

[Disheavel]

Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland

I would suggest that you insist that all occupants are on the lease, and that all the other occupants have a parent co-sign as well.

At least then if you wind up footing the whole bill, you can collect from the dead-beat kids as well as their parents. (Parents tend to have deeper pockets making collection easier. )

But dead-beat kids may have dead-beat parents so there is still no guarantee that you won't be responsible for everything once again.

[Pai325]

I was fine until I saw the roommates part. I had no problem signing for my daughter, but she didn't have any roommates at the time. Not every kid is as responsible as yours, and not every parent is as responsible as you.

Ask your lawyer what you'd be responsible for if things go bad.

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

Just re-read her letter--she says that the apartment owner is subletting the apt and wants "a parental cosigner for each of us." This seems good to me, if I find out who the other co-signers are.

[jacobsta811]

First, definitely have her try to do it without a cosigner before you do anything rash.
Have her say something like: I'm an adult, and my parents don't support me, I'll be signing the lease myself, thanks.
The landlord could very well fold and lease it out to her without a cosigner.
Or maybe she and her friends can look for another apartment. They can't all require cosigners.

[Rachellelogram]

I wouldn't do it. She doesn't NEED a cosigner at this point in her life. It'd be one thing if she was 18 and freshly moved out of the house with no credit history whatsoever. But for a 22 year old soon-to-be grad? A cosigner is not necessary for a person in this demographic to find a rental. Recommend that she look further off-campus or in a nearby city instead.

[lazybratsche]

I moved to Boston myself, right after college, and never once encountered a landlord that wanted anything from my parents. This included the first place I lived, which was practically a student boarding house. And I moved three more times in the next three years, so I did more than my fair share of apartment hunting, visiting dozens throughout Cambridge, Somerville, Boston, and Brookline.

There are plenty of other apartments out there. This one sounds like more trouble than its worth.

[Motorgirl]

Read, understand and live by Legal Tactics.

It is THE MOST IMPORTANT document for renters in Massachusetts. And you're about to be a renter in MA.

[VOW]

Originally Posted by pseudotriton ruber ruber

I'm just looking for safeguards, ways to minimize my exposure, ways to curtail my liability.

"Safeguards, minimized exposure, curtailed liability" go OUT THE WINDOW when you are a co-signer. THAT is why the landlord wants a co-signer.

Originally Posted by pseudotriton ruber ruber

How about negotiating the landlord's responsibility to rent the apartment out in case they need to break the lease?

Read the lease CAREFULLY. In the event your daughter and/or her roommates "need" to break the lease, THEY (meaning YOU) are responsible for finding a new renter. The landlord has the LEASE that makes sure that he gets his money for the duration of the lease.

A lease basically says to the renter: you gotta stay here for a year (or whatever the length is) and the landlord will not raise your rent for that period of time. A lease says to the landlord: sit back and collect the rent for a year.

There are no safeguards for you. And the landlord's safeguard is....THE CO-SIGNER.


~VOW

[astro]

Originally Posted by rachelellogram

I wouldn't do it. She doesn't NEED a cosigner at this point in her life. It'd be one thing if she was 18 and freshly moved out of the house with no credit history whatsoever. But for a 22 year old soon-to-be grad? A cosigner is not necessary for a person in this demographic to find a rental. Recommend that she look further off-campus or in a nearby city instead.

Pretty much this. A 21-22 year old grad student or college graduate should not need a co-signer for a simple apartment lease, that a landlord is demanding a co-signer for a 22 year old adult is a bit of a red flag to me.

[legalsnugs]

Originally Posted by pseudotriton ruber ruber

Just re-read her letter--she says that the apartment owner is subletting the apt and wants "a parental cosigner for each of us." This seems good to me, if I find out who the other co-signers are.

An owner does not "sublet" an apartment. He lets it. A tenant who has a lease sublets to another tenant. You need more information.

As co-signer, you would be responsible for whatever your daughter is responsible for. If each tenant signs his/her own lease specifying the total amount that individual tenant is responsible for each month, and for how long, then the co-signer would be obligated only for that amount.

But if there is ONE lease and the roomies all sign it, then EACH tenant (AND therefore each co-signer) is on the hook for the entire rent stated in the lease for the duration. If A, B & C all sign a lease that says $1,000 in rent will be paid each month, they are each one guarantying that $1,000 will be paid each month - not that A & B will pay $300, and C will pay $400 each month. Each one is responsible for the whole rent. However they divide it amongst themselves does not concern the landlord. And each co-signer is making that same promise. Therefore, if you co-sign for A, and neither B or C pays the rent - A (and therefore, you) is on the hook for the whole rent.

If A, B & C don't pay, the landlord may look to the co-signers to pay the rent. The co-signers then get to determine between themselves who pays/gets repaid, and that may require litigation to get some co-signers to pay up. That's why a landlord would want as many co-signers as he could get! He could get the whole rent from any of the tenants and any of the co-signers.

Hence my advice: READ the lease BEFORE signing it. The lease will tell you what you/your daughter are responsible for. If you can't tell by reading it, take it to a lawyer for deciphering. Unless you are prepared to pay the whole rent for the duration of the lease, don't do it.



[Again, IAAL but I am not your lawyer and this is not legal advice, just common sense. I am not licensed to practice in your state or Massachusetts, and besides, you should take any and all advice gleaned from an anonymous message board with a grain of salt.]

[kayaker]

I co-signed my daughter's lease. There were 3 room-mates involved.

Before signing, I went out for dinner with the four of them (even picked up the tab). They all seemed like great, hardworking kids. My daughter has great taste in friends. I signed willingly, yet kind of held my breath.

The year just recently came to an end. They all signed a new lease, and a co-signer was not needed. Maybe I was just lucky.

[What the .... ?!?!]

Originally Posted by Lanzy

Co-signing is exactly like signing, they just come after you second if shit goes wrong.

I did it for my children and was never worried, some people have different experiences.

Already mentioned I think but deserves to be repeated (assuming it is correct) ......... the landlord can and will come after whoever is on the lease. Whoever is more likely to be able to pay is going to be the target. There is no ordering involved.

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by pseudotriton ruber ruber

Just to be clear, I'm not asking if co-signing is wise. I'm going to do it, my girl deserves my full support and this is a tangible way of providing it--I'm just looking for safeguards, ways to minimize my exposure, ways to curtail my liability.

The only realistic way to limit your liability here is to co-sign for a place where only your kid lives.

My parents did for me because the city I was living in wouldn't allow someone under 21 to sign a lease without a co-signer, but it was strictly in an apartment where I was the only tenant.

But how about limiting my liability to a single year?

If the lease is only for one year then that's the extent of your liability, isn't it? The problem is what might occur during that year. You might argue for a six month lease, but the problem is still that the roommates might trash the place and leave you on the hook for damages.

How about negotiating the landlord's responsibility to rent the apartment out in case they need to break the lease?

You can TRY this, but why on earth would a landlord agree to that? If you break the lease you're still liable for the full length of the lease, and once you're out the landlord is free to rent the place out again, even if the term of the lease isn't up yet because you've already broken the contract. There is zero reason for a landlord to agree to that.

[Dogzilla]

Originally Posted by astro

Pretty much this. A 21-22 year old grad student or college graduate should not need a co-signer for a simple apartment lease, that a landlord is demanding a co-signer for a 22 year old adult is a bit of a red flag to me.

Yeah, I'm not grokking why a 20-something legal adult/college graduate needs a cosigner. I lived off campus in college for the last two years and managed two leases in my own name all by myself. Several more followed post-graduation. I don't understand. I'm also having trouble with the idea of calling a 20-something legal adult a "child." She's not a child. She's your adult child; but she's not a child (per thread title).

[Cat Whisperer]

Originally Posted by rachelellogram

I wouldn't do it. She doesn't NEED a cosigner at this point in her life. It'd be one thing if she was 18 and freshly moved out of the house with no credit history whatsoever. But for a 22 year old soon-to-be grad? A cosigner is not necessary for a person in this demographic to find a rental. Recommend that she look further off-campus or in a nearby city instead.

This. Having roommates on your co-signed lease is also a huge red flag for me too. Maybe I've just watched too much Judge Judy (or maybe you haven't watched enough, prr).

[Martin Hyde]

Read into Boston landlord / tenant ordinances and laws. That will answer most of your questions. For example you question putting in some requirement that the land lord has to try and find new tenants if the lease needs to be broken--in many, many jurisdictions I am familiar with the land lord is legally obligated to try and find replacement tenants if you need to break the lease, and they can only charge you for the rent up until they find the new tenants. They are usually allowed to deduct money from the security deposit for any "reasonable expenses" incurred in finding new tenants (newspaper advertisements etc.)

As for limiting your liability to a single year...you will be liable for the duration of the lease that you sign, once that lease is up many land lords will probably not require you to co-sign again if all the rent payments were coming in during a timely fashion up to that point.

[Hello Again]

Originally Posted by Dogzilla

Yeah, I'm not grokking why a 20-something legal adult/college graduate needs a cosigner. I lived off campus in college for the last two years and managed two leases in my own name all by myself. Several more followed post-graduation. I don't understand.

In tight real estate markets, landlords call the shots. There's no mention of professional, full time work in the OP. Presumably the OP's daughter is unemployed until she finds work in Boston (which I am sure she will search for diligently, etc., but OTOH we got this REcession on). If the landlords don't want to rent to questionably employed people without further financial guaratees, they don't, because they don't have to.

Now I've never lived in Boston so I really don't know. But the scenario described in the OP is not at all uncommon in popular urban centers and college towns (and Boston is both). It can be nigh impossible to rent an apartment without a 1 year employment history in some cities. When we moved to NYC we had to show bank statements sufficient to cover the first 6 months of rent, proof that I was a fulltime student, there was a credit check and a criminal check (which we had to pay for), we had to put down a large deposit required to be drawn on a bank located within New York City... And this was for a rent-regulated apartment, meaning, the landlord is actually far more limited in what he can demand than your average schmoe.

[Arabella Flynn]

If your daughter is still, looking, OP, see if she can find a place where the landlord rents rooms rather than the apartment. That way, even if you still need to cosign, what the other roommates do or don't pay has no bearing on your daughter's responsibilities. Plenty of landlords do that, especially around the suburban-ish campuses like Tufts-Medford.

(I live near Tufts, in fact, so if your daughter ends up here and wants someone to walk her around, feel free to let me know! I'm at miss.arabella.flynn at GMail. Powder House Square is the most obnoxious intersection I have ever seen in my life, especially for pedestrians.)

[Marley23]

I don't have any particular advice for the OP, but for the people who say he shouldn't co-sign the lease, I should point out that he probably has no choice if he wants his daughter to be able to get an apartment. My parents co-signed my first couple of apartment leases (and never had to pay a cent) both when I had a steady full-time job and when I didn't because landlords do not trust recent college graduates to be able to pay their rent. With good reason, arguably, since recent college grads are usually not making a ton of money and tend not to have large savings to draw from if they lose a job or their income becomes insufficient. I have no doubt there are risks for parents here, but this seems to be the way of doing business with regard to leasing an apartment for young people - at least when there are plenty of them around and landlords can pick and choose.

[brazil84]

I totally agree about the roommate thing.

Anyway, I would try to get a provision put into the guarantee that your total liability is limited to three thousand dollars no matter what.

[lazybratsche]

Originally Posted by Marley23

I don't have any particular advice for the OP, but for the people who say he shouldn't co-sign the lease, I should point out that he probably has no choice if he wants his daughter to be able to get an apartment.

I will absolutely guarantee that there are apartments in Boston that won't require a parent to co-sign. I was in the same position as the OP's daughter four years ago, and I never encountered any landlord that wanted a co-signer. All I had was a job offer and enough cash to cover first/last/deposit.

[Marley23]

I can't speak to Boston specifically because I haven't lived there. But for every apartment I've rented, the first month's rent and security were required upfront whether the leases were parentally co-signed or not.

[Motorgirl]

Originally Posted by Marley23

I can't speak to Boston specifically because I haven't lived there. But for every apartment I've rented, the first month's rent and security were required upfront whether the leases were parentally co-signed or not.

The landlord may, but is not required to, collect first month, last month and a security deposit which cannot exceed one month's rent. If the landlord is using a real estate agent for showings, application, etc, the agent may charge up to one month's rent as a non-refundable fee. There are also allowable charges for lock changes and application fees, but at most you're on the hook for around 4 months rent upfront. Most places just charge security + either first or last. The agent fee may sound onerous at first but can be well worth the money in a tight rental market.

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by jacobsta811

First, definitely have her try to do it without a cosigner before you do anything rash.
Have her say something like: I'm an adult, and my parents don't support me, I'll be signing the lease myself, thanks.
The landlord could very well fold and lease it out to her without a cosigner.
Or maybe she and her friends can look for another apartment. They can't all require cosigners.

It's really going to depend on the landlord, also keeping in mind that landlords can get away with a lot more these days because of everyone who lost their house but still needs a place to live. There are way more renters these days, and landlords can be as picky (and unreasonable) as they want. (Not all of it may be legal, but not many people have the time to pursue it in court, either. Particularly those who have a deadline to vacate their current residence, which is going to be most of them.)

So, ten years ago, in Chicago, I applied for an apartment, the landlord insisted on a co-signer, I refused, and he took an extra month's rent (two months instead of one) in security deposit instead.

Two months ago, in Chicago, I applied for an apartment, the landlord insisted on a co-signer (both tenants are in our 30s!), we tried to negotiate him out of it, and then tried to negotiate limits and favorable terms for our co-signers, but instead he ignored the fact that we'd already put down a deposit (which was supposed to take the place off the market), continued showing it, accepted another application, and rented it out from under us. Ultimately we found a better apartment for less money, so it worked out, but this illustrates that landlords can and will be assholes about this sort of thing. You can try to negotiate favorable terms, but you may just end up with the landlord blowing you off and renting it to another tenant.

I don't have much advice other than be prepared for the landlord not to negotiate, at all, and figure out what you'll want to do in that case. And keep in the back of your mind that you may not be done looking for a place until you've actually got a signed lease. I wouldn't put the ads away just yet.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Motorgirl

The landlord may, but is not required to, collect first month, last month and a security deposit which cannot exceed one month's rent. If the landlord is using a real estate agent for showings, application, etc, the agent may charge up to one month's rent as a non-refundable fee. There are also allowable charges for lock changes and application fees, but at most you're on the hook for around 4 months rent upfront. Most places just charge security + either first or last. The agent fee may sound onerous at first but can be well worth the money in a tight rental market.

Sorry if I wasn't clear: when I said "required," I meant the landlord required those things of me. From what I've seen, yes, the first month's rent and a security deposit equal to a month's rent are standard. In my experience the broker/agent is engaged by the renter and not the landlord, but I'm sure there are plenty of places where it works the other way around.

[Kaio]

Originally Posted by Marley23

In my experience the broker/agent is engaged by the renter and not the landlord, but I'm sure there are plenty of places where it works the other way around.

As a further data point, in Chicago the brokers are "free" to renters, it's the landlords who pay their fee. Of course, renters do end up paying for it in the sense that the landlord will set a higher rent to recoup the broker fee (we saw this with our recent apartment hunt -- exact same unit, but through the broker rent was $25 a month higher than direct through the management company). But often it's worth it, if you get a good agent.