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  #151  
Old 05-12-2012, 01:12 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Originally Posted by emarkp View Post
Or it didn't happen
As I (along with several others) have posted, if anybody accused me of jumping a fellow student and shaving their head, I would look my accuser in the eye and say, "You're lying. That never happened. Nothing like that ever happened. I double dog dare you to produce one shred of evidence to support what you just said. Which you can't do because you made it up."

That's what you say when nothing happened.

You don't say "Back in high school, I did some dumb things and if anybody was hurt by that or offended, obviously I apologize for that. I participated in a lot of high jinks and pranks during high school and some might have gone too far and for that, I apologize."

That's what you when it happened but you don't see what the big deal is.
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  #152  
Old 05-12-2012, 01:37 AM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
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Or that didn't happen either, the WaPo manufactured Romney apologizing and every other news source just ran along with it ; have you thought of that Mr. Smartypants ?
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  #153  
Old 05-12-2012, 02:29 AM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Ask me what I had for lunch ten years ago and I couldn't tell you. Asked me if I robbed a bank ten years ago and I could very confidently tell you no. Routine things fade from memory - big things don't.

So if Romney honestly doesn't remember whether or not he attacked another student, it must mean that doing things like that were routine for him.
This. I remember tons of stuff from 40 years ago, and before. I remember stuff I'm not very proud of, most of which involve stupidity on my part and none of which involve bullying. Romney either never thought of this action as wrong, is lying through his ass, or has had his brain cells killed by all that Sprite he drinks.
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  #154  
Old 05-12-2012, 09:10 AM
gamerunknown gamerunknown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace57
Obama has admitted to experimenting with drugs as a teen.
How dare you insinuate that Obama admitting to using drugs as a teen has anything to do with the fact that he refused to defend his otherwise competent foreign minister's resignation due to campaigning from the drug legalisation lobby, his consistent record calling for drug legalisation and opposing any limitations such as only legalising marijuana and his calling for traditional usage of drugs despite the fact that there's no record that the prophet of his religion ever partook in such a thing?
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  #155  
Old 05-12-2012, 11:05 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Dragging some story about Romney in high school is beyond lame. Are we all supposed to be accountable for what we did forty plus years ago? Obama has admitted to experimenting with drugs as a teen.
How many people did Obama hurt by trying drugs? To whom would he owe an apology?
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  #156  
Old 05-12-2012, 11:15 AM
MPB in Salt Lake MPB in Salt Lake is offline
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Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
To whom would he owe an apology?
Nancy Reagan?
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  #157  
Old 05-12-2012, 11:43 AM
holmes holmes is offline
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I pity the fool...!
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  #158  
Old 05-12-2012, 11:56 AM
emarkp emarkp is offline
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The WaPo has a few fact-based problems with their story.
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  #159  
Old 05-12-2012, 02:08 PM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emarkp View Post
The WaPo has a few fact-based problems with their story.
A screenshot of the graffiti in a men's room stall has more credibility than the Post.
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  #160  
Old 05-12-2012, 02:30 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emarkp View Post
The WaPo has a few fact-based problems with their story.
Yep, nothing like unbiased analysis:

Quote:
Or just maybe independent voters will come to choke on the media’s anti-Romney overreach.
That being said, it sounds like the description of Powell's reaction was inaccurate and it was correct to change it.
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  #161  
Old 05-12-2012, 03:33 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emarkp View Post
The WaPo has a few fact-based problems with their story.
Even accepting the NY Post as accurate, which is a major concession, it only gave one example of a factual error, and it was very minor. And the WaPo DID note the error when it changed it.

At the bottom of the revised article is this retraction:

"Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this story reported that White “has long been bothered” by the Lauber incident. White later clarified in a subsequent interview that he has been disturbed by the incident since he learned of it several weeks ago from a former classmate, before being contacted."

The other "errors" the NY Post notes, and claims are worse, are not errors at all. One is that the victim's sister objects to his depiction in the article, and the other is that one of Romney's old pals apparently doesn't think that the incident disqualifies Romney from being President. Both people are entitled to their opinions, but that has nothing to do with the facts of the incident.
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  #162  
Old 05-12-2012, 03:33 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emarkp View Post
The WaPo has a few fact-based problems with their story.
Oh? And why should I believe anything the NePo says?

Seriously? The "WaPo"? Although I guess it's nice for people to give us a heads up. It's like people who spell America with a K - as soon as you see that, you know you can safely ignore everything else that person is saying.
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  #163  
Old 05-12-2012, 03:35 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Oh? And why should I believe anything the NePo says?

Seriously? The "WaPo"? Although I guess it's nice for people to give us a heads up. It's like people who spell America with a K - as soon as you see that, you know you can safely ignore everything else that person is saying.
Come on, it's just an abbreviation, like POTUS, and you can't just say "Post" when there is also the NY Post involved. They use it themselves in their headlines:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...uyFU_blog.html

and their subsidiaries:
http://www.wapolabs.com/

Last edited by TonySinclair; 05-12-2012 at 03:39 PM..
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  #164  
Old 05-12-2012, 03:48 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Seriously? The "WaPo"? Although I guess it's nice for people to give us a heads up. It's like people who spell America with a K - as soon as you see that, you know you can safely ignore everything else that person is saying.
Bullshit. Writing "WaPo" is a timesaver, nothing more. Just like writing "NYT" or "WJS". AFAIK, or, at least, so ISTM.

Last edited by BrainGlutton; 05-12-2012 at 03:48 PM..
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  #165  
Old 05-12-2012, 03:53 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
A screenshot of the graffiti in a men's room stall has more credibility than the Post.
You're thinking of the WaTi, not the WaPo.
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  #166  
Old 05-12-2012, 04:03 PM
MsWhatsit MsWhatsit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post

Seriously? The "WaPo"? Although I guess it's nice for people to give us a heads up. It's like people who spell America with a K - as soon as you see that, you know you can safely ignore everything else that person is saying.
Yeah, I'll agree with everyone else. It's just an abbreviation, like NYT or HuffPo or whatever.
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  #167  
Old 05-12-2012, 04:16 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
A screenshot of the graffiti in a men's room stall has more credibility than the Post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
You're thinking of the WaTi, not the WaPo.
I thought he meant the New York Post, which was covering the Washington Post's "errors." And I agree there is nothing partisan about the WaPo abbreviation.
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  #168  
Old 05-12-2012, 05:17 PM
Measure for Measure Measure for Measure is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
I'm willing to let a candidate put their stupid high school years behind them. I would even be willing to let Romney do so. But the problem is, despite me letting him, he hasn't. The first step to putting stupid behavior behind you is admitting it, and the second is apologizing. Romney hasn't done either. That tells me that he, right now, is the same immature bully he was in high school, and who he is right now is absolutely, entirely relevant to the election.
That would be harder than it looks (see below). But it wouldn't be that hard:
There’s a pretty straightforward campaign playbook for this sort of thing. Give the story to a relatively friendly reporter, match it with an interview casting it as youthful errors and a subsequent reckoning/remorse/growth experience, etc. Set aside whether this is an accurate portrayal in this case. If that story would have come out, matched with an interview with Romney explaining how he was a bit of a bully as a kid but then learned the error of his ways, I doubt very much that story would get a lot of traction outside of folks really determined to dislike the guy.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archive....php?ref=fpblg

So why didn't something like this happen? Why does Romney deny remembering the time he had his crew pin an underclassman to the ground while he attacked him with sheers? Bullying was quite common at the time: but chopping at a guys hair was a little more unusual, if not unheard of.

I think there are a number of reasons. One is Romney's sense of entitlement. This is a guy whose been running for President for close to a decade, yet chooses to release only 2 years of tax returns. That breaks with a longstanding Presidential tradition. I guess he figures it won't matter. Similarly in this case: he just doesn't think his high school brutality is a huge deal.

And it wouldn't be, if he just manned up about it and showed some contrition. IMHO. This is bad ethics, bad politics and just bad for the country. Part of the Presidential description is Communicator in Chief. The boys-will-be-boys schtick isn't helpful in 2012.

Also, Romney may be deficient in empathy. I honestly can't evaluate this, but we shouldn't rule out this possibility.

But the big complication is his career at Bain. Romney's restructuring left thousands of men and women out of work: it's not an exaggeration to say that his team ruined lives. And the dirty little secret of the era -which I trust Romney knows- is that much of the efforts of the VC groups didn't involve a lot of diligent reworking of the production process, nor were they limited to companies in trouble. A lot of the deals involved reneging on implicit contracts with workers and suppliers, loading the company up with debt, cashing in on the firm's reputation by lowering product quality and selling the shell to another sucker. Implosion would occur during the next recession. There's a great deal of money to be made at such a game, but there's not a lot of value added. He also funded good ideas of course, but it's fair to wonder how many of them would have found funding anyway. A detailed, fair minded look at Bain's legacy would be interesting.

Anyway, if Romney apologizes to one of his childhood vics, that would empower those who lost jobs to express their outrage. Now there are ways of dealing with that: there are answers that could have been prepped years ago. But remember the tax return example. It appears that Romney hasn't really done all his homework, surprisingly. So apologizing for one of his transgressions might contain greater hazards than it first appears. And heck, it seems that a lot of guys were made miserable by Romney's high school antics. It's hard to single out his worst victim for special treatment.
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  #169  
Old 05-12-2012, 06:04 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Perhaps I'm wrong. But it seems whenever I see the Washington Post being called WaPo, it's some blog that's trying to downplay some story that they reported. Sort of like a blog talking about Faux News.

Here's the top hits that came up on Google for "wapo".

Marc Thiessen Disregards WaPo Ombudsman’s Advice Against Asserting An Iran Nuke Weapons Program
Does WaPo Know Obama Shoved a Little Girl?
Glenn Beck Responds to WaPo Story About Romney's Alleged High School Bullying
WaPo slammed for Romney "hit piece"
Bill O'Reilly Rips WaPo: 'If Romney Shaved Barney Frank's Head You Might Have a Story'
The FishbowlDC Interview With WaPo‘s Rubin
WaPo’s Lord of the Lies
Cutting-edge reporting from WaPo: Let’s take an in-depth look at … Romney’s cruel high-school pranks
WaPo Held Print Version Of Romney Bully Story Over Obama Gay Marriage News
Is It Standard WaPo Practice to Quote the Dead?

For comparison, here are the hits that come up when you search for "Washington Post" (in both cases I eliminated hits from the Washington Post itself).

The Washington Post for iPad for iPad on the iTunes App Store
A collection of news and information related to The Washington Post published by this site and its partners.
Comics - The Washington Post
Cracks in the Washington Post story on Romney's 'pranks' emerge
The Washington Post - Android Apps on Google Play
Washington Post Co. Cl B
Washington Post Case Study: Amazon Web Services
That Washington Post Mitt Romney Story? It's Not Mitt Romney's Story
Washington Post - The Future of Pot
Washington Post cancels lobbyist event amid uproar

Now out of the ten WaPo hits, all ten were negative and were questioning the paper's credibility. Out of the ten Washington Post hits, six were neutral, one was positive, two were mixed, and one was negative and critical. So there does seem to be a connection between calling the paper WaPo and questioning its credibility.
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  #170  
Old 05-12-2012, 07:12 PM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
I thought he meant the New York Post, which was covering the Washington Post's "errors." And I agree there is nothing partisan about the WaPo abbreviation.
Correct. The NY Post. The Washington Post is of course a solid paper, as is the NY Times. The NY Post and Wash Times are good for wrapping fish guts.
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  #171  
Old 05-12-2012, 07:19 PM
emarkp emarkp is offline
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Just to clarify my comment, I don't have a high opinion of the Washington Post or the Huffington Post, but I use WaPo and HuffPo simply as an abbreviation, not as a pejorative.
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  #172  
Old 05-12-2012, 07:23 PM
Giles Giles is offline
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Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
The NY Post and Wash Times are good for wrapping fish guts.
Only if you hate the fish's guts.
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  #173  
Old 05-12-2012, 07:26 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
(in both cases I eliminated hits from the Washington Post itself).
Why would you do that, unless you're cherry-picking data? IMO a reasonable person would acknowledge that the very existence of hits from the Washington Post show that you are wrong.

And just by the way, your original goalposts were not that the articles are negative from a source using "WaPo," but that the source can be dismissed out of hand.
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  #174  
Old 05-12-2012, 07:44 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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Toon sez it all!
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  #175  
Old 05-12-2012, 07:58 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Originally Posted by TonySinclair View Post
Why would you do that, unless you're cherry-picking data? IMO a reasonable person would acknowledge that the very existence of hits from the Washington Post show that you are wrong.
Actually I was trying to avoid cherry picking the evidence. The majority of hits from the Washington Post used the name Washington Post not WaPo. And not surprisingly, the majority of hits from the Washington Post were positive on the subject of the Washington Post. So including Washington Post hits would have skewed the results towards the positive.

I was trying to conduct a neutral survey so I took links made by people who weren't connected with the Washington Post. And I divided them into two groups: one group used the term WaPo and the other group used the term Washington Post. And I took the first ten hits from both groups.

I posted what I found. The group that used WaPo was significantly more negative than the group that used Washington Post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySinclair View Post
And just by the way, your original goalposts were not that the articles are negative from a source using "WaPo," but that the source can be dismissed out of hand.
I thought that part was clear. It's not that people can't report negative things about the Washington Post. My position was that people who report on the Washington Post using an inherently negative term are displaying bias to a degree that their opinions are suspect.

To make an analogy (which I'm becoming increasingly reluctant to do) if you were reading an article about same sex marriage and the writer used the word fags, you can assume that the writer was anti-gay to the point where he wasn't able to be objective on the subject. A person who'd use the word fags is almost certainly going to be negative about same sex marriage regardless of what the reality is.
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  #176  
Old 05-12-2012, 08:02 PM
MsWhatsit MsWhatsit is offline
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Well, I think the Washington Post is a fine newspaper and don't really have a problem with it, and I'm more likely than not to refer to it as WaPo. I think dismissing posts from people who abbreviate that way out-of-hand is misguided on your part.
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  #177  
Old 05-12-2012, 08:09 PM
Measure for Measure Measure for Measure is offline
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I believe I first read the Washington Post referred to as WAPO at Talkingpointsmemo.com, a liberal website. I have sense adopted that term. NYT and WSJ are standard abbreviations.

Americans love abbreviations, to the occasional consternation of the brits.

PS: Interesting pattern by Nemo. I had not noticed it though. Don't know what to make of it.

Last edited by Measure for Measure; 05-12-2012 at 08:11 PM..
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  #178  
Old 05-12-2012, 08:15 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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"Christian," "Quaker" and "Methodist" all were insults originally, adopted with pride by their targets.
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  #179  
Old 05-13-2012, 02:20 AM
tim314 tim314 is offline
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Originally Posted by miss elizabeth View Post
I think the "apology" is the more fucked up part of the story, really.

I mean, he was 18. He either remembers this and is lying, or isn't really sorry, OR he did a lot of stuff like this and he really doesn't remember. All those options are pretty awful, in my opinion.
This is how I feel. If it was totally unlike him, he'd know he didn't do it. If it only happened once, it'd be memorable. So either he's lying about forgetting, or he did this sort of thing so often that he genuinely can't remember whether or not this one particular kid was one of his victims.

I'd absolutely be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's changed in the intervening years, but his non-apology demonstrates he clearly hasn't changed enough to feel bad about it.

I'd like to hear either "Yes, I remember doing it, it was wrong, and I'm sorry", or "I don't remember doing it, but I did things like that, they were wrong and I'm sorry", or even "I would never on my worst day have done anything remotely like that, and these accusations are a vicious lie." But to say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitt Romney
But as to pranks that were played back then, I don't remember them all, but again, high school days, I did stupid things. … And if anyone was hurt by that or offended, obviously I apologize for that."
(bolding mine) With no acknowledgement that it's even wrong or that anyone should be hurt or offended (plus minimizing it by calling it a prank)... These are not the words of a man who even takes bullying seriously as a problem, much less who has come to regret his own acts of bullying.
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  #180  
Old 05-13-2012, 08:01 AM
gamerunknown gamerunknown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Clear Politics
Is It Standard WaPo Practice to Quote the Dead?
Brought to you by the party of Jesus and the Founding Fathers.
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