What the hell has happened to some of my friends?

[Mighty_Girl]

Gosh, sometimes I loath Facebook. It doesn't do anything to make me like some of my friends any better.

Let's just not mention that I am surrounded by a gazillion seemingly illiterate people. I am here to complain about something else.

Some of my friends from back of the days when I was in the university have finally reached old fartdon before they turned 40. I am talking about the people that oudrank me, and outpartied me for years and have suddenly become the biggest prudes on earth.

What the hell is going on? Do I have a weird mutation that has allowed me to be a mother and raise a child without becoming Mrs. Lovejoy?

The straw that broke the camel's back was one of my friends, who by all accounts had what I think was a healthy sex life before she was legally an adult (17) now complaining about sex education and efforts to get young people to use condoms. She is now advocating that parents tell their children to "just say no". I couldn't help but tell her that was insane, and will not work. I almost asked her if she was suffering from memory loss, she's the friend who told me her mom was convinced she was a virgin when she was far from it. In the end I offered to show her that the statistics prove that abstinence only education does not work. I doubt it will make a dent on her "ideas".

What the fuck happened? Am I am condemned to start ranting about all the "inmoral" stuff on TV (how about you control what your child watches?), explicit lyrics (we had explicit lyrics in the 80s), violent videos (don't buy them) and teenagers having sex (they always did). Please, please tell me I can avoid this fate. Or at least postpone it until I am in my 60s.

[Garfield226]

*loathe

[Rhythmdvl]

*Lothario

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Hm, sounds like people that were stupid when they were young grew up into stupid adults.

[Mighty_Girl]

Originally Posted by Garfield226

*loathe

Sorry for the typo. I am sure there are a few more there.


I didn't think they were particularly stupid when they were young. But all of a sudden the world has turned into a scary place full of immorality. And I just can't see it.

[Ambivalid]

Did your friend say "inmoral"? Is that why the quotes?






















I know you mentioned being surrounded by all the illiterates

[Mighty_Girl]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Did your friend say "inmoral"? Is that why the quotes?

I know you mentioned being surrounded by all the illiterates

Yes. It have become their favorite description for everything: music, TV, videos, video games, people, society.

And no, the illiterates are a different group of people from the Mrs. Lovejoys.

[foolsguinea]

You know that you can almost anagram "inmoral" to "minorly"?

[Kimstu]

Originally Posted by Covered_In_Bees!

Hm, sounds like people that were stupid when they were young grew up into stupid adults.

Quift. (I say that because I can't pronounce "QFT".)

IMO, it's not so much stupidity per se as an early and persistent habit of not thinking things through.

If when you were young you did what a lot of people your age did without really thinking deeply about your personal choices and principles, then when you get older you're likely to do what a lot of people your age do without really thinking deeply about your personal choices and principles. Consistency and sustained fact-based reasoning won't be important to you at that point simply because they've never really been important to you.

People don't generally start out principled and become hypocrites later in life; it's just that it takes a while for them to pass through sufficiently varied circumstances to allow their innate hypocrisy to become plainly visible.

[Hbns]

I've witnessed the same from many of my friends.
A lot of us did stupid things when we were young that turned out ok only through dumb luck. I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case with your friend. Maybe there wasn't a condom involved every time, or maybe there was a pregnancy that got "taken care of". Then there are things like driving drunk and just generally reckless driving that also give these friends night sweats.

Now that they are parents and confronting the possibility of their own child making the same bad decisions and not being "lucky", they advocate to take the decision making out of their kids hands by promoting abstinence. Unwittingly leaving all our children less prepared to make good choices, less likely to "get lucky".

[Mighty_Girl]

Originally Posted by Hbns

I've witnessed the same from many of my friends.
A lot of us did stupid things when we were young that turned out ok only through dumb luck. I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case with your friend. Maybe there wasn't a condom involved every time, or maybe there was a pregnancy that got "taken care of". Then there are things like driving drunk and just generally reckless driving that also give these friends night sweats.

Now that they are parents and confronting the possibility of their own child making the same bad decisions and not being "lucky", they advocate to take the decision making out of their kids hands by promoting abstinence. Unwittingly leaving all our children less prepared to make good choices, less likely to "get lucky".

There is definitely some of that, but what about this need to control the whole world? I loved Ozzie when I was a teenager and was really into heavy metal (shut up!); but that never made me want to try drugs. In fact I didn't even drink a whole lot in my college years, I was drunk once and didn't like it. I have never been drunk since. I don't believe that bending the world to your standards and cover it in bubblewrap is a good substitute for "parental discretion".

I don't care if comedians swear on Comedy Central because my child does not watch it. In fact I don't mind adult language. For all I care they could have shows that consisted of "fuck, fuckity fuck fuck" for an entire hour (it will probably sound like "beep, beeeeep beep beep"). I don't care if there are video games where people are shot and whatnot, my child is not allowed to play video games. I don't care that there is adult language in lyrics nowadays (there was in the 80s), my child listen to music from our iPod.

It frightens me that one of these days I will wake up thinking that Lady Gaga is the devil or something (anyone remembers Madonna?).

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by foolsguinea

You know that you can almost anagram "inmoral" to "minorly"?

Hahaha!

[Captain Amazing]

Sort of what Hbns said. People who have kids remember all the stupid and self destructive things they did when they were young (getting drunk all the time, sleeping around, not studying in school, whatever), and they decide that they don't want their kid acting as dumb as they did. So, they crack down on the kid, trying to save them from their own stupidity. It's a large part of what maturing is.

[Rachellelogram]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Girl

I don't care if comedians swear on Comedy Central because my child does not watch it.
*snip*
I don't care if there are video games where people are shot and whatnot, my child is not allowed to play video games.

How is this not also prudish? Or is your kid 4 years old?

[Sierra Indigo]

Originally Posted by rachelellogram

How is this not also prudish? Or is your kid 4 years old?

The difference being that Mighty_Girl is trying to control her child's behaviour.

The people she's talking about on facebook appear to be trying to control everyone else's behaviour.

I do believe the entire crux of Mighty_Girl's argument is not inherently that these people want to stop their children from doing the things they did as idiot teens, but that they want everyone around them to stop doing anything at all, for fear their precious wittle packages might get corrupted by the immorality around them.

[Nava]

... I am getting an ad about "senior dating in Spain. Over 40s dating"



Sweet Jesus on a pogo stick, I can't get people to stop calling me a "girl" and I'm already a "senior"?

[Covered_In_Bees!]

So picky Nava jeez. Girl or senior, which is it?

Kimstu, that does indeed sound like a more diplomatic and thorough explanation of what I was getting at. Then again, let's be honest, anyone who doesn't think things through does tend to called stupid. At least once they reach adulthood and start spouting complete bullshit.

[thursday next]

I find myself constantly reminding people who are in my age group or who went to school with me that some of the things going on aren’t that new and that they seem to have a selective memory. It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one.

The two big things I have problems with are:

1. A lot of my friends were very … let’s say promiscuous (and that’s an understatement) in high school and college. I was actually Miss Goodie Two Shoes and then moved onto keeping my actions to myself. Most of my friends however have seem to forgotten that they could be described as wanton sluts*, ahem I mean comfortable with their sexuality and their actions.
   
   
2. Guns in schools. Our high school opened in 1985. At the end of September of that year an Assistant Principal was shot in the school and a ricochet injured a student. This was before I attended the school and it was considered the chi chi school in the district. It even had the nick name Country Club High. It was built with metal detectors in some of the main door areas. While we were in school we (my friends, acquaintances and I) would worry about guns or someone going postal. There were a few lock downs. Once, in 1992 when I was not at the school, but had friends who were, a teacher was murdered by her estranged husband who then turned the gun on himself. Fun times and safety!!

So when I hear people, especially those who went to school with me talking about the scary guns at school today, I want to smack them with a wet trout since they’ve obviously forgotten about the events that actually made the news and certainly don’t remember the events that were hushed up.

I have heard a Comedy Central show where it was full of fuck fuck fuckity fucks. It was a Katt Williams show and I watched all of 2 minutes before the beeps started to give me a migraine (plus what came through didn’t make any sense). They were either beeping the crap out of his show, or they were simultaneously broadcasting the show in Morse code.

*This is a total joke, I figure as long as the parties involved are cool with their actions then its all good.

[Nava]

Originally Posted by Covered_In_Bees!

So picky Nava jeez. Girl or senior, which is it?

I want to be a woman, damnit!

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by Nava

I want to be a woman, damnit!

Hmm... all of our "woman" positions are filled at this time, but we have some nice openings for "bumblebee" and "lemur" if you'd like to try for those. If not, I know a guy looking for some er... "contract work" that may free up a few of those slots for you.

[Mighty_Girl]

Originally Posted by rachelellogram

How is this not also prudish? Or is your kid 4 years old?

She is 6.

Originally Posted by Sierra Indigo

The difference being that Mighty_Girl is trying to control her child's behaviour.

The people she's talking about on facebook appear to be trying to control everyone else's behaviour.

I do believe the entire crux of Mighty_Girl's argument is not inherently that these people want to stop their children from doing the things they did as idiot teens, but that they want everyone around them to stop doing anything at all, for fear their precious wittle packages might get corrupted by the immorality around them.

Exactly! Thanks.

I am tired of all this talk of their wish to conform their world to their fears. I am a mother too, I too am fearful, the difference is that I believe the best approach is to equip my child with knowledge and a good thinking head over her shoulders, not to bubblewrap the world around me. That is insane. And the things that they find so inmoral and dangerous are the same normal things that they did two decades ago.

[grama]

We have a saying for this. "La vaca siempre se olvida que fue ternera" - "The cow always forgets she was once a calf".

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by Nava

... I am getting an ad about "senior dating in Spain. Over 40s dating"



Sweet Jesus on a pogo stick, I can't get people to stop calling me a "girl" and I'm already a "senior"?

I've had the same problem on Facebook: an ad for 40+ dating right next to a "like bad girls?" ad featuring a tattooed scenester who couldn't be more than 20.

[Latro]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

I've had the same problem on Facebook: an ad for 40+ dating right next to a "like bad girls?" ad featuring a tattooed scenester who couldn't be more than 20.

How is that a problem?

[Ludovic]

Well, I'm not above dating either of them, although I'd prefer early 20s-early 30s.

[Cat Whisperer]

Originally Posted by grama

We have a saying for this. "La vaca siempre se olvida que fue ternera" - "The cow always forgets she was once a calf".

That's, uh, not very flattering towards women.

[Malthus]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

That's, uh, not very flattering towards women.

Don't have a cow, man.*


* Animal imagry may have different connotations in different languages and cultures - dunno if that's the case in Spanish for "cow", but you should never, for example, call a Chinese woman a "fox" ... it isn't a complement

[Mighty_Girl]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

That's, uh, not very flattering towards women.

It is not offensive in the sense you are taking it.

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by Nava

I want to be a woman, damnit!

Well okay, but we get to call you "Loretta".

[Nava]

Does that mean the US Government gets to add "Loretta" to my list of aliases? They already have a list of 21 (if it's not higher by now).

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

That's, uh, not very flattering towards women.

Yeah, in my experience women never forget anything, ever.

[grama]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

That's, uh, not very flattering towards women.

it's used for both men and women, I don't see the problem

[Hbns]

Originally Posted by thursday next

I find myself constantly reminding people who are in my age group or who went to school with me that some of the things going on aren’t that new and that they seem to have a selective memory.

That is precisely the problem. While you were a self described "Miss Goodie Two Shoes" they lose sleep thinking their kids will be just like them. I doubt they rationalize it, but unconsciously it makes them feel better if they perceive the opportunity to act in such a reckless manner has been removed. You and I know it doesn't change a damn thing, and probably makes things worse, but sadly they rest easy thinking they have somehow protected their children.

If only most parents were as rational as you and Mighty_Girl.

[saoirse]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

That's, uh, not very flattering towards women.

Heh. The first time I lived in sin, my then-girlfriend's dad said to her, "Well, why should he buy the cow when he can get the milk for free?" I said, "Did your dad just call you a cow?"

[Gedd]

That's one thing I like about Facebook. You get to see that one girl that was the cool cheerleader dropped out of college after geeting knocked up and married the guy she thinks is the dad who works at Walmart.

[BlinkingDuck]

I hear ya OP. While I wasn't a 'prude' per se I was definitely on the prudish side of my group of friends.

Life hasn't been good to my group of friends from HS but the ones that made it to family/children make me scratch my head.

- the guy who won't let his kid play video games or even own a computer. Excuse me, dude, you were a MAJOR COMPUTER GEEK as a kid. Are you saying you were wrong back then? Are you saying the others that looked down on you and felt superior to you were RIGHT? Man, I wish you could go back and talk with yourself.

- A woman friend who is obsessed with her daughter having sex. Excuse me?! I remember you at that age...and I remember you have a certain...passion and committment to having sex. While I understand your concern...I know your daughter. She has a good head on her shoulders. Trust her. I also have a daughter close to her age. You know what? I trust her. If I found out she was having sex*? Big deal! No, seriously...it's not a big deal.

- The guy who was downright militant about how the young were treated back then. He now supports rainsing the voting age, drinking age etc etc etc etc...WTH man?! Listen to yourself! I wish you to could go back and talk to yourself. Your teen self would punch you in the nose.

So, I went from being on the prudish side to being 'very permissive/naive'. No, I just have kept my perspective while growing older




*Weirdly enough (or maybe not so weird), my daughter was raised very 'liberally' with much trust...and she has turned into a huge prude. She says and I actually believe her that she is a virgin and she is near 20 now and been with the same guy for years. She has the looks and body to wear real provacative and stunning clothes and I would let her...but she doesn't. Kids need to rebel and if you are a dope using hippy living on a clothes optional commune your kid will probably join the CIA. Also reminds me of a daughter of a friend of my wife's...who had the reputation of being extremely rebellious and not a good thinker about her life. However, she spent a week with us when parents on vacation and she seemed a very normal, good-headed girl (weird hair and clothes...but otherwise normal ). When I said that to her mom, she thought I was stupid naive...but her daughter grew up and is doing just fine in life.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

That's, uh, not very flattering towards women.

Latin culture being insensitive to women? Dios mio!

[TriPolar]

I noticed this often in my 20s. I don't think children have to enter the picture to cause this effect. After the Vietnam was ended, hordes of communists and anarchists put on suits and became accountants and lawyers. Any number of people living a bohemian lifestyle suddenly became uptight 50s style conformists. I do know plenty of people who found happy middle ground, and some who seemed to have never matured at all, or even regressed over time. But it's the 180 degree skewing of lifestyle choices that confuses me. Perhaps they had that undeveloped medulla oblongata or whatever causes thoughtless impulsive behavior, and upon development of a complete brain considered everything that went before in the category of youthful indiscretion, which they now cannot recall. Or perhaps that part of the brain does not function when clouded by a constant flood of alchohol, THC, and cocaine, and upon finding something more important than working for the weekend they revert to their natural state. But in the end, it is only the gross hypocrisy that bothers me. They shouldn't rant about the next generation doing what they've done themselves. Especially because once again we have a generation of youth whose lives will be seriously impacted because of the way the world was fucked up by their parents. In fact, we had it easy, they have the burden of taking out our trash.

[Mighty_Girl]

Originally Posted by BlinkingDuck

So, I went from being on the prudish side to being 'very permissive/naive'. No, I just have kept my perspective while growing older

This, exactly, that is just what is happening here.

I wasn't a prude, I just didn't like booze very much and had a steady boyfriend. I was completely fine with what they were doing.

Strangely, my daughter seems to be heading the same way as your daughter. OK, she is only nearly 7, but she has a hard time exercising the freedoms we grant her. Her teachers only complaint is that she is too much of a perfectionist.


And Tripolar, I think the world is vastly safer and better now than it was 20 years ago. I wish I were young now, although I am fine with my age. It is a wondrous time to be young. I just don't see these dangers they see everywhere.

[SteveG1]

Poeple are hypocrites. They want to feel they are better than other people who do the same things they do (or did).

Hypocrites. That is all.

[Nava]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

That's, uh, not very flattering towards women.

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

Latin culture being insensitive to women? Dios mio!

As Mighty_Girl and grama said, the line refers to people, not to women. It's not a case of Latin culture being insensitive to women, the only people who are being offended here are those whose minds are overly literal or who feel the need to look down on others.

Please, stop being offended in our behalf, ok?

[Vinyl Turnip]

In Spain, cows are revered as gods.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Girl

And Tripolar, I think the world is vastly safer and better now than it was 20 years ago. I wish I were young now, although I am fine with my age. It is a wondrous time to be young. I just don't see these dangers they see everywhere.

I was referring mainly to the economic instability, but I don't see how the world is safer now than in 1992. But I am old, and perhaps turning pessimistic (more pessimistic actually). However, on a rational basis instead of an emotional one, I agree, it is a wondrous time to be young.

[Anne Neville]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Girl

And Tripolar, I think the world is vastly safer and better now than it was 20 years ago.

It is. Violent crime is way down compared to 20 years ago, at least in the US. News coverage of crime is not, though, so it doesn't look like it. Fewer people are being killed by drunk drivers. I'm not as likely to have to tell my daughter that one of her classmates was killed by a drunk driver, the way my mother had to when I was in elementary school.

[Chessic Sense]

Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip

In Spain, cows are revered as gods.

Oh yes, they get the red carpet treatment and everything.

[Chicagojeff]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

I noticed this often in my 20s. I don't think children have to enter the picture to cause this effect. After the Vietnam was ended, hordes of communists and anarchists put on suits and became accountants and lawyers. Any number of people living a bohemian lifestyle suddenly became uptight 50s style conformists. I do know plenty of people who found happy middle ground, and some who seemed to have never matured at all, or even regressed over time. But it's the 180 degree skewing of lifestyle choices that confuses me. Perhaps they had that undeveloped medulla oblongata or whatever causes thoughtless impulsive behavior, and upon development of a complete brain considered everything that went before in the category of youthful indiscretion, which they now cannot recall. Or perhaps that part of the brain does not function when clouded by a constant flood of alchohol, THC, and cocaine, and upon finding something more important than working everyfor the weekend they revert to their natural state. But in the end, it is only the gross hypocrisy that bothers me. They shouldn't rant about the next generation doing what they've done themselves. Especially because once again we have a generation of youth whose lives will be seriously impacted because of the way the world was fucked up by their parents. In fact, we had it easy, they have the burden of taking out our trash.

True dat!.. Just read an article in the Chicago Sun times.. http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchel...-anything.html
Okay.. it's stupid and annoying to look at.. but I remember time ago when if an employer asked you to cut off your afro (relax your hair) people freaked out.. And to quote Hendrix.."If the hippies cut off all their hair.. i don't care..
Every generation finds the next and the next doing amazingly silly annoying things.. I actually find my 15yr old son and his friends to be a calculating totally too realistic bunch.. kids are tight as hell.. The only things that grate my nerves is the pants and that damn strip club rap music.. but.. hey.. My father hated Schooly D and threw away my Dead Kennedy's album.. I have told my son that while he is free to grow his dreads.. they'll come a time and place where he'll have to make some hard choices about his hairstyle..

[Cat Whisperer]

Originally Posted by Nava

As Mighty_Girl and grama said, the line refers to people, not to women. It's not a case of Latin culture being insensitive to women, the only people who are being offended here are those whose minds are overly literal or who feel the need to look down on others.

Please, stop being offended in our behalf, ok?

I'm not particularly offended; it just sounded not very flattering in English (a typical English statement might be something like, "I can't believe that cow I work with! She's constantly bugging me!"). I have no problem with something being lost in the translation.

[RedFury]

Meh! You've got me on there -- so just let me know who (and when) you want me to go all immoral on their ass!

Seriously though, I feel for you -- I've had the same shit happen to me with many a friend. But then you have the other extreme, decrepit fucks such as myself picking-up girls almost a third their age and then bragging about it. These idiots don't realize it's their wallet doing the "seducing" and little blue pills doing most of the "loving"?

[elucidator]

Well, a lust for money is a very common way to compensate for the "hamster dick" syndrome.

[tdn]

Originally Posted by Nava

I want to be a woman, damnit!

Me too, but they refuse to do the operation.