Ok, I'll do it (Twickster thread closing thread closed)

[Garfield226]

Are we just closing things and not commenting on it anymore? Or what?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=651374

[silenus]

C'mon, guys. Get a fucking grip.

[The Man With The Golden Gun]

Anyone want to take bets on how many replies this puppy will get before getting closed?

[TubaDiva]

If you (not any you specifically, member of the Teeming Millions you), if you want to have personal fistfights with another member of the Teeming Millions, there is a forum to do that.

That forum is not About This Message Board, where we hope people will behave -- and even disagree -- in a civil manner.

The thread degenerated into people just bashing one another and was closed, that's what we do when that happens.

If you have a need to fight with someone else on this message board, take it to the Pit.

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

If you (not any you specifically, member of the Teeming Millions you), if you want to have personal fistfights with another member of the Teeming Millions, there is a forum to do that.

That forum is not About This Message Board, where we hope people will behave -- and even disagree -- in a civil manner.

The thread degenerated into people just bashing one another and was closed, that's what we do when that happens.

If you have a need to fight with someone else on this message board, take it to the Pit.

Any chance you could, you know, moderate things before they get to that point so those of us with relevant questions to ask actually have a shot at getting them answered? Otherwise anybody who doesn't want a topic discussed has a pretty easy method of closing down discussion (and apparently without repercussions), no?

[Zeriel]

Originally Posted by Garfield226

Any chance you could, you know, moderate things before they get to that point so those of us with relevant questions to ask actually have a shot at getting them answered? Otherwise anybody who doesn't want a topic discussed has a pretty easy method of closing down discussion (and apparently without repercussions), no?

This man is right. As much as I hate to say it, Quasi (just to point out the worst, there are probably half a dozen more) deserves at least a mod note, even if his circumstances merit some special consideration.

Furthermore, closing a thread rather than moderating the offenders and allowing it to continue can take the appearance of a transparent dodge to avoid discussing the issue and leading to a proliferation of threads, well, like this one. Which shouldn't have to exist.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

That forum is not About This Message Board, where we hope people will behave -- and even disagree -- in a civil manner.

The thread degenerated into people just bashing one another and was closed, that's what we do when that happens.

Except that you ONLY do it in ATMB.

In other threads, people actually get moderated for behavior that breaks the rules. They get mod notes and/or warnings.

It's clear that, in ATMB, your main purpose is to actually allow the thread to degenerate so that you have an excuse to close it without addressing the issues it raises.

[Blank Slate]

if you can't pit moderators, is it OK to pit the administration?

[Krav Manga]

Shouldn't Quasimodem have been warned for the abuse that presumably led to the thread being shut down?

Or did he do you guys a solid, so he gets a pass?

[NineToTheSky]

It is interesting that this post (#206 in the 'Why was the Twickster ATMB thread closed?' thread) was edited by TubaDiva.

No. You misunderstood. I WILL NOT fall on my sword, and my "dial it back a few" was meant to let this cocksucker know I can get primitive on his sorry ass.

Now, let's let this poor ass piece of shit call me out.

I'm ready and as I said: Any time, any place, rot.
Last edited by TubaDiva; Today at 04:23 AM.

[Ionizer]

Originally Posted by NineToTheSky

It is interesting that this post (#206 in the 'Why was the Twickster ATMB thread closed?' thread) was edited by TubaDiva.

No. You misunderstood. I WILL NOT fall on my sword, and my "dial it back a few" was meant to let this cocksucker know I can get primitive on his sorry ass.

Now, let's let this poor ass piece of shit call me out.

I'm ready and as I said: Any time, any place, rot.
Last edited by TubaDiva; Today at 04:23 AM.

WTF is going on there?? I do believe that Quasi does 'have a solid' here, so to speak. Lucky guy to be so special, I guess. Threatening behavior without repercussion? This will become kind of a legend, I bet. And not in any good way.

Why no warning, or even Mod note?! Care to be specific, Tuba? Can you do that, please?

[WhyNot]

Quasimodem has publicly shared with us that he's suffering from early onset Alzheimer's disease. One of the symptoms of this disease is, sadly, periods of irrationality and angry outbursts, especially from perceived or actual insult. There are good days and bad days for him, and the terrifying knowledge that as time goes on, there will be more bad days than good days.

I can't answer for the moderators, and I'm not one, so I can't begin to tell you What's To Be Done About Quasi, but thought I'd offer that piece of information to people looking for immediate answers in the wee hours of the morning.

[bucketybuck]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

Quasimodem has publicly shared with us that he's suffering from early onset Alzheimer's disease. One of the symptoms of this disease is, sadly, periods of irrationality and angry outbursts, especially from perceived or actual insult. There are good days and bad days for him, and the terrifying knowledge that as time goes on, there will be more bad days than good days.

I can't answer for the moderators, and I'm not one, so I can't begin to tell you What's To Be Done About Quasi, but thought I'd offer that piece of information to people looking for immediate answers in the wee hours of the morning.

I think many people appreciate that. Unfortunately his outburst was completely over the line for ATMB, and in my opinion the mods have no option but to give him a formal warning.

Give him a warning, then we can all move on with dealing with the important issues here, if anybody can actually say what they are at this point?

[WhyNot]

Originally Posted by bucketybuck

I think many people appreciate that. Unfortunately his outburst was completely over the line for ATMB, and in my opinion the mods have no option but to give him a formal warning.

Give him a warning, then we can all move on with dealing with the important issues here, if anybody can actually say what they are at this point?

I have no public opinion about that, just wanted to make sure the posters above me had all the information, because I think it's a piece of the puzzle they didn't have. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it didn't sound like they knew.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

If you (not any you specifically, member of the Teeming Millions you), if you want to have personal fistfights with another member of the Teeming Millions, there is a forum to do that.

That forum is not About This Message Board, where we hope people will behave -- and even disagree -- in a civil manner.

The thread degenerated into people just bashing one another and was closed, that's what we do when that happens.

If you have a need to fight with someone else on this message board, take it to the Pit.

So, to be clear, your new rule is that if anyone wants a thread closed, they just " bash" other people and rather than warn the offender, the offender gets his/her way and the thread is closed?

Congrats, this may be the fucking stupidest rule/decision that the SDMB has ever implemented...and by the standards of the SDMB, that's saying a lot.

[AClockworkMelon]

Maybe Twickster has Alzheimer's, too? It would explain why she isn't warned when she insults people.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by bucketybuck

I think many people appreciate that. Unfortunately his outburst was completely over the line for ATMB, and in my opinion the mods have no option but to give him a formal warning.

Give him a warning, then we can all move on with dealing with the important issues here, if anybody can actually say what they are at this point?

Important issues: Mods need to play by the same rules and held to the the same or higher standards. When Mods break the rules at least the appearance of consequences should be apparent, maybe pretend something is being done and at least have an admin moderate the the Mods behavior. Under no circumstance should a mod moderate their own conduct and decide their own punishment. I think I covered everything. Could have been resolved in one quick post in the first thread.

[Munch]

Myrnalene summed it up very nicely there at the end, maybe that's why Tuba didn't want to add any sort of thread closing note. Let me quote it here for posterity:

Originally Posted by Myranlene

Welp, the "ignore all complaints until the thread utterly derails itself and we have an excuse to close it and wag our fingers" strategy seems to be working.

Fan-fucking-tastic.

This could have been handled quickly and relatively painlessly. All that was needed was some acknowledgment of a (pretty minor, really) screw up from twickster or any of the admins, instead of stonewalling, silence, and the usual bullshit from the masturbatory mode defenders. It's too late now, especially since the nonny-and-quasi show has gotten into full swing. But there was never any plan fix this, and the ending was a foregone conclusion from the time the other thread was opened.

What a fucking joke the administration here is.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by Munch

Myrnalene summed it up very nicely there at the end, maybe that's why Tuba didn't want to add any sort of thread closing note. Let me quote it here for posterity:

I agreed mostly with the bolded part. But I disagree with the rest. I think this has been handled poorly. I think a few other cases have been handled poorly. But if I thought the moderation was that bad in general I wouldn't bother commenting on it. I would just leave.

[Bob Ducca]

Just a wild and unfounded guess, but perhaps they're trying to push Twickster towards a voluntary retirement from modding, ala Czarcasm, and she's not playing along.

[CarnalK]

Originally Posted by NineToTheSky

It is interesting that this post (#206 in the 'Why was the Twickster ATMB thread closed?' thread) was edited by TubaDiva.

No. You misunderstood. I WILL NOT fall on my sword, and my "dial it back a few" was meant to let this cocksucker know I can get primitive on his sorry ass.

Now, let's let this poor ass piece of shit call me out.

I'm ready and as I said: Any time, any place, rot.
Last edited by TubaDiva; Today at 04:23 AM.

Ha! No kidding. If that's what Tuba left in, you gotta wonder what she took out. And she can't say "no one reported it, so that's why I didn't notice" either. Wow.

[Fenris]

I believe all Tuba removed was some personally identifying info (his full name), and IMO, she was correct to do so. I reported that he'd put it in (and I'm sure others did too).

[Snickers]

This is just nonsensical. We're allowed to raise issues and hash out concerns with board moderation in only one place: ATMB. That's entirely what these three threads have been about.

Oh, except we can't. Because according to TubaDiva, these threads aren't appropriate for ATMB either, for some reason. "Bashing each other," I guess. I'm not seeing it - I'm seeing concerned members raising issues about board moderation that, as per usual, are and will be ignored.

Sure, people could be using different language. I posit that that's been done before; we've tried to be polite, we've tried to raise issues constructively. And it's been ignored. Now we're frustrated. Is it any wonder we start yelling?

In the end though, it won't matter. Same old, same old.

It's too bad.

[srzss05]

Originally Posted by WhyNot

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it didn't sound like they knew.

Maybe not wrong, but I'm pretty sure most know the situation but were playing "innocent". Possibly one or two were genuinely confused, but that's it.

[CarnalK]

Originally Posted by Fenris

I believe all Tuba removed was some personally identifying info (his full name), and IMO, she was correct to do so. I reported that he'd put it in (and I'm sure others did too).

Ah, ok. Maybe it's time to assign a mod specifically to Quasi. He's at least as important as the "Game of Thrones", no?

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Snickers

Oh, except we can't. Because according to TubaDiva, these threads aren't appropriate for ATMB either, for some reason. "Bashing each other," I guess. I'm not seeing it - I'm seeing concerned members raising issues about board moderation that, as per usual, are and will be ignored.

What's funny is that for all the heavy handed, ham-fisted moderation in ATMB, there's never, ever any moderation of the obvious threadshitting that goes on by the "Mods must never be critizised types" who enjoy shitting up ATMB threads so they're closed.

Per Twickster a few days ago

Originally Posted by twickster

Threadshitting is defined as coming into a thread and dismissing the topic itself, for instance by telling people they are morons to be discussing the topic. Thus it's actually a very specific behavior.

OP: I like kitties.
Threadshitting: Y'all need to get a life. Enough of these freaking kitty threads. People who like kitties are assholes.
Not threadshitting: I hate kitties and prefer ferrets.

OP: Mod X was wrong to give this mod note and it really pissed me off.

Threadshitting: Being a mod on this board has got to be one of the most thankless tasks on the planet. You should be grateful she (or any mod) deigns to spend the time wading through the shitstorm of delicate egos and adult tantrums they have to deal with. If you get a mod beat down (and I've had a few) take your whipping and move on, don't stand there howling and complaining and smearing snot all over your shirt like a tard. It's only a message board. It doesn't clothe you or feed you, do your dishes or mow your lawn. If you hate the modding that much get another board.

Not Threadshitting: I think Mod X was wrong for mod noting you as you should have been officially Warned.

I've never once seen a mod asskisser warned for threadshitting.

[MsWhatsit]

I haven't really been involved with these threads, but reading through them I have two main reactions:

1. We should be allowed to Pit moderators. It would let people blow off steam in an appropriate location without constantly dragging all this crap into ATMB.

2. Quasi should have been warned for his last few posts in the closed thread. I can't imagine that anyone else on the boards could have made those posts and got away without a warning. I understand that he has special circumstances, but if we're not supposed to have to put up with being called names and threatened by other posters, I think that should apply to all posters. IMO.

[TubaDiva]

Originally Posted by NineToTheSky

It is interesting that this post (#206 in the 'Why was the Twickster ATMB thread closed?' thread) was edited by TubaDiva.

No. You misunderstood. I WILL NOT fall on my sword, and my "dial it back a few" was meant to let this cocksucker know I can get primitive on his sorry ass.

Now, let's let this poor ass piece of shit call me out.

I'm ready and as I said: Any time, any place, rot.
Last edited by TubaDiva; Today at 04:23 AM.

Yes, I edited out his real life name. Which is routine here.

[Bob Ducca]

Originally Posted by MsWhatsit

2. Quasi should have been warned for his last few posts in the closed thread. I can't imagine that anyone else on the boards could have made those posts and got away without a warning. I understand that he has special circumstances, but if we're not supposed to have to put up with being called names and threatened by other posters, I think that should apply to all posters. IMO.

I really like Quasi, but I agree that he and Grantham should both be sternly warned for the attacks at the end of that last thread. He's usually the first person here to say that he should be treated no differently than any other poster, so why do so?

Nobody is saying that Quasi should be banned or anything, just given a warning.

Grantham, however, has no excuse and has been warned in the past for attacking Quasi. After this last bout, I'm not sure he deserves to retain his posting privileges here.

[Munch]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Yes, I edited out his real life name. Which is routine here.

If you're following along with the discussion, could you PLEASE participate? We've now spent 6 days asking you questions, and you haven't answered a damn one of them. If you're not allowed to do so, could you at least tell us that? "Sorry, Ed and the rest of the staff are discussing this matter, which is why moderation has not commented on this situation. Once we come to a satisfactory conclusion, we'll clue everyone in."

If there's not a discussion going on in the background, I can't for the life of me figure out why you're standing on the sideline, other than just sheer contempt for your voluntary job.

[Morgenstern]

Originally Posted by Ionizer

WTF is going on there?? I do believe that Quasi does 'have a solid' here, so to speak. Lucky guy to be so special, I guess. Threatening behavior without repercussion? This will become kind of a legend, I bet. And not in any good way.

Why no warning, or even Mod note?! Care to be specific, Tuba? Can you do that, please?

Obviously, the coin came up tails. They never warn if it comes up tails.

[Myrnalene]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Yes, I edited out his real life name. Which is routine here.

So, y'all are reading the thread but don't see fit to comment on any of the concerns raised in the three threads about this? Once again, at least two rings of this three ring circus could have been avoided. You could have stopped it, if you guys weren't so entrenched in your mods vs the rest of the board mentality.

The forum says it's for "all questions, comments, and complaints about the SDMB", will you just be changing it to the "you may as well be posting into a vacuum, cause lulz we don't give a shit about you guys and we've stopped even pretending to care"? Or is that just supposed to be understood without having to say it?

Why are you even still doing this job, seriously? Do you do anything any more but roll your eyes in disgust at the unwashed masses and pray that they shut up?

[Bob Ducca]

Originally Posted by Myrnalene

Why are you even still doing this job, seriously? Do you do anything any more but roll your eyes in disgust at the unwashed masses and pray that they shut up?

They must get really nice coffee mugs.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Yes, I edited out his real life name. Which is routine here.

If a mod edits another's post it should by policy to use the box underneath with why it was edited. Should clear up any confusion.

[kopek]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

If you (not any you specifically, member of the Teeming Millions you), if you want to have personal fistfights with another member of the Teeming Millions, there is a forum to do that.

That forum is not About This Message Board, where we hope people will behave -- and even disagree -- in a civil manner.

The thread degenerated into people just bashing one another and was closed, that's what we do when that happens.

If you have a need to fight with someone else on this message board, take it to the Pit.

OK - dumb but honestly meant question. Why not move the thread to the Pit rather than close it? That seems the normal course of action for threads that start outside ATMB. Is it because of the thread being begun about a moderator?

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

Originally Posted by Loach

If a mod edits another's post it should by policy to use the box underneath with why it was edited. Should clear up any confusion.

What? And make more work for our noble mods? Don't you people realize how hard they work, how little they're paid, how under-appreciated their efforts are? You should get down on your hands and knees to do them homage, and maybe give them a blowjob or two, but instead you're in here bitching about the times (very rare, I may add) they fuck up. Why don't you start a few threads praising the mods for a change, instead of finding work for them to do?

[Loach]

Originally Posted by pseudotriton ruber ruber

What? And make more work for our noble mods? Don't you people realize how hard they work, how little they're paid, how under-appreciated their efforts are? You should get down on your hands and knees to do them homage, and maybe give them a blowjob or two, but instead you're in here bitching about the times (very rare, I may add) they fuck up. Why don't you start a few threads praising the mods for a change, instead of finding work for them to do?

I don't do blow jobs. How about a handy?

[TubaDiva]

Okay, we're sorting things out here.

Grantham has been dealt with. He's been banned.

There's evidence that Grantham is someone who has been stalking Quasi in real life.

This goes back to when Quasi was working at the local hospital. They had an incident in the ER when Quasi was attempting to treat this guy's wife and the man (who was impaired in some fashion, possibly drunk) physically attacked Quasi and other hospital staffers. They arrested the man and I believe Quasi wound up getting a restraining order against him as well.

"Grantham" has been posting nasty comments to Quasi's blog and making harassing phone calls to him at home as well.

Our bad for not catching this sooner but we did not make the connection until just now.

Will also talk to Quasi -- he was goaded but he should have reported it and not blown up.

[Drunky Smurf]

Originally Posted by Loach

I don't do blow jobs. How about a handy?

I've got $5. I don't pay more than $5 for a handy.

[Munch]

Well that's one of the creepier things that have taken place on this board (I hope). Thanks for the update, Tuba.

[TubaDiva]

Originally Posted by kopek

OK - dumb but honestly meant question. Why not move the thread to the Pit rather than close it? That seems the normal course of action for threads that start outside ATMB. Is it because of the thread being begun about a moderator?

Yes.

[Enola Gay]

1. I can't be the only one who's disappointed that this thread wasn't titled "Why was the "Why was the Twickster ATMB thread closed?" closed?"

2. I also think that there is no way to please everyone given the current rules. Being a mod here is kind of like being potus (without the secret service protection). No matter what you do or say, there will be a vocal minority who says "Wtf!! You should have done B instead of A, you moron!!!"; another vocal minority will defend the choice of A instead of B. And a silent majority who don't think it's that big of a deal or don't care.

3. I recall recently getting a mod note for calling someone a motherfucker in the pit (shit happens in the heat of the moment some times). Anyway I got the old "don't do this again"....which is exactly what Twickster did to herself for her transgression in the thread in question. Certainly, there are other cases where people have been issued official warnings for such language. Is it fair that some get warned, some get mere notes and some get completely overlooked? Nope, and neither is life. Get used to it.

4. AFAIK the rule against pitting mods was not made by mods, they are merely enforcing it. That said, I think it would solve the problem (and add to the entertainment value of this site as well). But I don't think that's their call to make.

5. All that said, it is obvious that I am not nearly as emotionally invested in this site as many others, so I'll STFU now.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by Loach

I don't do blow jobs. How about a handy?

Wouldn't that be a banned job?

[Cat Whisperer]

Originally Posted by Enola Gay

<snip>
2. I also think that there is no way to please everyone given the current rules. Being a mod here is kind of like being potus (without the secret service protection). No matter what you do or say, there will be a vocal minority who says "Wtf!! You should have done B instead of A, you moron!!!"; another vocal minority will defend the choice of A instead of B. And a silent majority who don't think it's that big of a deal or don't care.<snip>

That's true enough; anyone who would become a moderator here has been here long enough to know that, too.

[cochrane]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

Yes, I edited out his real life name. Which is routine here.

Quasi has put his real name in other posts, though. He's not concerned about sharing it, and anyone who follows him regularly knows what it is. Could it have been that this was an insulting post why you removed his name?

[Enola Gay]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

That's true enough; anyone who would become a moderator here has been here long enough to know that, too.

Yup, there are a few comments in this thread that Quasi should have gotten a warning for his comments in the other thread. I can only imagine the shit storm that would have followed if a mod had warned him though...

[TubaDiva]

I just looked for his name and removed it.

Last night I was trying to finish a piece of work and was not overly concerned with the board. That happens sometimes.

[TubaDiva]

As to whether Quasi puts his real name in stuff elsewhere, I don't know. There's a gazillion posts a day and I do not see them all.

I do know we remove real life information and we discourage people from posting real life info.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=650726

Please remember that postings on this board are visible to anyone with access to the Internet, and are retained in a database indefinitely. In addition, the SDMB is open to third-party search engines ("spiders"). Please do not post personal revelations or other information that may come back to haunt you. In particular, do not post your telephone number or address.

[Garfield226]

Originally Posted by TubaDiva

I just looked for his name and removed it.

Last night I was trying to finish a piece of work and was not overly concerned with the board. That happens sometimes.

Busy or not, did you really think the best course of action was to lock a heated thread with absolutely no indication of who locked it, why, or any sort of a resolution?

Even a very short "This thread is too heated to go on but I can't devote the time necessary to handle it fully right now. It's closed. Don't discuss Twickster's moderation further until I handle this in the morning. Thanks."

Instead, we got silence. As usual.

But, since you're here now, are you too busy now? Would you care to address the actual issues brought up in those threads, rather than just the tangential bad behavior brought on by your refusal to handle it in a timely manner in the first place?

[Astral Rejection]

Originally Posted by Enola Gay

. And a silent majority who don't think it's that big of a deal or don't care.

I'm part of the silent majority, but I do care. I don't think I've spoken up about a moderator decision ever, but I've been lurking at the Straight Dope since 2005, and I check every forum for interesting topics.

And for the past few years, I've been disheartened by the way some of the moderators respond to issues. 99% of the time, I think our moderators make the right call, and 99.99% of the time, I get where they're coming from even if I would have decided differently.

That said, there's (to my mind) this enormous culture of treating complaints with silence and misdirection, and threads get closed far too often, with the underlying issues left unresolved. Even when I agree with the original decision, I often think moderators respond poorly to questions, concerns, or complaints.

I've never spoken up before. Most of you probably don't even recognize my user name. I can't reasonably be dismissed as a "complainer." And I think the silence from the higher-ups has directly lead to the quality of discourse in ATMB.

And, for the record, regardless of what the culture used to be like, I think moderators should be courteous and impartial when moderating.