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#1
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"Lind's Law": The lower the level of government, the more crooked & inefficient
From "A Horde of Lilliputian Governments," by Michael Lind, published in The New Leader (now defunct) May 5, 1997:
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#2
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I've always thought that. I'm puzzled by the 'local is better' crowd.
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#3
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We certainly have plenty examples of local municipalities being corrupt. In Gould, Arkansas the town council passed a law banning a particular group from talking with the mayor and then took it a step further by making it illegal for any group to form with the purpose of talking about the town without first getting permission from the town council. We've all heard of corrupt city government officials stealing money, small town police forces which exist for the sole purpose of fleecing drivers by issuing speeding tickets and I'm sure we can all find more stories about city/county/state corruption. Part of the reason we can find more stories is because there are way more governments than the Feds here in the United States.
How many different governments do we have in the United States? According to Wikipedia we have the following. (Honestly, it's hard finding a straight answer on how many city/town governments the U.S. has.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_g..._United_States Federal: 1 State: 50 County: 3,034 Municipal: 19,429 Township: 16,504 School District: 13,506 I'm not sure what is meant by a local government being inefficient. A lot of people seem to miss that it is the local government which makes the most decisions which you feel on a daily basis. Everything from where to put new roads to how schools should be funded are decided on a local basis. It makes more sense for a lot of those decisions to be made on a local level. What does a guy from Austin, Texas know about repairing roads in New York City? |
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#4
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#5
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#6
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Based on anecdote I'd agree smaller government officers are more generally corrupt. But I too wouldn't mind seeing some factual citations to back that up, because we all know that anecdote isn't evidence.
Additionally, the reason people like local government over centralized government is it allows local concerns to be heard by people who are directly accountable by local voters. If all county and municipal officers were say, appointed by the governor of the state, then a lot of voters would feel they didn't get to have any real say on the government officials who had the most immediate and direct effect on their day to day lives. Something that always shocks me is how passionate people get about national political issues while ignoring local ones, a lot of the stuff that really impacts your day to day life is actually handled by local government, but it's "un-sexy" stuff like zoning issues, property tax levies, and etc. But these things can have a real material impact on you on a day to day basis whereas a lot of Federal issues don't. |
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#7
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Also, while I like local government I've always been opposed to a few offices being elected.
I don't think County Sheriffs anywhere should be an elected position, they should be appointed by county elected government from the ranks of the professional police force. No judges should be elected, ever. Nor should magistrates or prosecutors. |
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#8
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I have no data but Lind's subjective anecdotal impressions quoted in the OP. Don't know if anyone has ever done an actual study on this.
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#9
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#10
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A counterexample: Fairfax County, Virginia. Little-to-no corruption, efficient and well-run government for just over a million people with very few layers. In my native New Jersey the same population would be covered by a county or three, and dozens of "cities", townships, boroughs, etc. We also have one of the best school districts in the US. Taxes are high, but things are run well.
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#11
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So you basically live in Canada.
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#12
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#13
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#14
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Dumb regulations like the San Francisco pet store ban or the Georgia(?) compulsory gun law are examples of unwise legislation (and in the compulsory gun carry probably unenforceable), the job of a citizenry is to decide if such unwise legislation should result in politicians being thrown out of office. It doesn't make me think those politicians should have been appointed instead. |
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#15
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Naw, we still pay out the wazoo for health care.
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#16
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Yes it does, quite a bit. Although there's a chicken-and-egg problem, and Fairfax County has its issues with poverty, gangs, etc. And why is Fairfax County so much better run than some neighboring jurisdictions, even with similar populations? I suspect several dissertations can be written on that topic.
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#17
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Another point about lower levels of government is that it's easier to get away from them when they make bad decisions. If your city government runs a 12-billion-dollar debt, you can move to the suburbs. If your state creates a 500-billion-dollar shortfall, you can move to a different state, but that's probably going to be a lot more inconvenient. If the federal government runs up a debt of 15.7 billion dollars, the only way to get away from it is to leave the country, which is very expensive and difficult. |
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#18
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I think the reason the transplants don't participate is because they figure they'll be transferred by their companies in a few years anyway, or they'll take another job in another city when they get downsized, etc.. I am contrasting that with DC, in which people are more likely to stay put. Are the other counties around Fairfax run by the local good-ol'-boys? If not, I have no idea why Fairfax is run better, other than pure luck. Last edited by al27052; 05-21-2012 at 02:33 PM. |
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#19
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Since we are on anecdotes, I have seen corruption at every level. The national stuff is more sophisticated, but the corruption is there nonetheless. Its like sales guys - a rep selling tanks to the Army is the same type of guy selling used cars in hicksville. They are both buying dinners, glossing over problems, and doing whatever it takes to close the deal. One might have a better suit, but if you distill them down to their essence - they are the same.
I also like the ability to make a difference locally with City Council and School Board members in my contacts. |
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#20
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The weird thing is that other parts of Arkansas (rural areas) integrated before Brown vs. the Board of Education without any of the same problems experienced in Little Rock.
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#21
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#22
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Perhaps because Little Rock was so high-profile and symbolic. But there might be a simpler explanation -- from what I've heard, in the Jim Crow South, the understood norms of race relations varied from county to county and town to town. Some places, AAs simply were not allowed after sundown; other places had little problem with them at all, all things considered; and there was a whole spectrum between.
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#23
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My point is that there seems to be a very strong desire by many to have more power at the local level, and that desire seems to run contrary to experience. Basing school funding on the size of the local tax base is beyond ludicrous, it is almost criminal. Not having a national curriculum is also silly when people move so often among states. We'll always need local government, but I'd rather base the decision on their scope on pragmatism rather than ideology. |
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#24
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One intriguing possibility is that it was the Brown v. Board of Education that really sparked integration conflicts. Consider that other cities had integrated bus services (Baton Rogue, LA for example) without any of the difficulties experience in Montgomery, Alabama. The difference is that Baton Rogue integrated before the decision and Montgomery after. The Brown vs. Board made it possible for local demagogues to screech about integration and get elected. I'm not really making a case for local government here, am I? |
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#25
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So the proliferation of governmental entities is not a good thing. But that's not evidence that local governments are more corrupt. I would think that many of them are since there are many parts of the nation that have one party rule which breeds corruption. But overall, I'm not sure.
__________________
Just my 2sense |
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#26
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#27
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Would Tammany Hall count?
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#28
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Okay, they didn't quite end segregation on the buses but on the whole it was a lot calmer in Baton Rouge than it was two years later in Montgomery, AL. Whites in Baton Rogue were a lot more willing to play ball than the folks in Montgomery. |
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#29
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I will offer that the smaller governments are easier to audit, but, equally, or less, corrupt. |
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#30
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I would disagree with that. I think that small governments often have incredibly uneven, irregular, and opaque finances because they are run by part-timers and have grown up organically from when the whole system was a ledger book kept in the town hall.
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#31
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For my part, I think every MSA should have a single consolidated metro government. Cities Without Suburbs! |
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#32
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As a corrupt local government? Certainly, but aren't urban machine-politics and courthouse-rings mostly things of the past in America? I'm not talking about organized corruption here, only of corruption (and incompetence) finding multiplied opportunities in tiny local units.
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#33
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I don't agree with this thread's premise, based on my observation of local government in my geographical area. Since I videotape ALL county and town board meetings, that's a lot of observation.
The government officials I know are human like anyone else, which means they aren't perfect, but checks and balances seem to work well. I notice that most citizens tend to ignore working local government bodies unless: (1) an item on the agenda directly affects them, or (2) if they perceive a gross corruption. Which means that most of the time, the public meetings are poorly attended. But once we had a town chairman who was lining his pockets at public expense, and the hue and cry reached a fever pitch and the meetings were packed. Once he was thrown out, the attendance returned to normal (no one there). That would seem to suggest that corruption cannot continue indefinitely. Another factor for local governments: in a small town, everyone knows everyone else. One crook cannot remain hidden as much as in a larger town. This contradicts the OP's premise, too. |
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#34
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There are some serious philosophical issues within this thread as well. I don't believe the premise to begin with even though there are certainly corrupt local governments. Everything I have ever seen in practical life is that the more local the better as general rule. It is impossible for people to understand all the issues that are not immediately in front of them. That applies from New York state where much of the state is rural yet New York City itself is a world-class city with its own issues. I wouldn't expect people even in that state to fully understand the concerns of their fellow state citizens let alone those of Alaskans, Louisianans, or Californians.
Movements towards more consolidated governments are almost always authoritarian in philosophy and usually quite inefficient in their blanket one-size-fits laws that are a necessary component of that. That is the exact opposite of what people like me want. Most importantly, with more local governments, everyone has the freedom of movement if they don't like the current environment. Larger governments limit those choices and that is a deal killer for me and most others. The logical conclusion to larger and larger governments is a one-world government. That may sound appealing a few control freaks but to most of us don't want it and will fight to the death to prevent it. If that sounds straw-man argument, it doesn't seem like it to me. The U.S. is one of the largest countries on earth. Further tendencies towards centralization in the U.S. are just medium scale versions of the same thing. Let's respect diversity of choices even within our own country or anyone else's for that matter. Making government diagrams look prettier because you don't understand the reasons they were set up they to begin with isn't the way to achieve anything worthwhile. There are probably good cases for consolidation to be made somewhere but it shouldn't be blanket philosophy. It is true control freak behavior that dictators throughout history loved to use usually with disastrous consequences. We need to respect individual and group differences. Last edited by Shagnasty; 05-21-2012 at 08:53 PM. |
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#35
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The very fact that people are known to each other at the local level is a double-edged sword. Yes, it can hold people in power more directly accountable, but it can also excuse some horrific behavior. And who's to say the majority of the community isn't right there with the crook? If (note, I say if) the charges against Arpaio hold, then he's committed some pretty significant crimes, and he's popular down here. He gets elected easily, and if it hadn't been for the federal government looking into him, he'd have kept right on as he's been doing. A person does not always act rationally, in their own best interests, and with full knowledge, yet that's always the underlying assumption in small-government thinking. And when you get down to the local level, it only takes a few busybodies with more time on their hands than most hardworking people to really mess with things. I'm not saying local government is entirely bad or useless, but each level of government has its own pros and cons, and each is useful to shore up the weaknesses of the others. Tossing out federal or even state involvement removes some of the safety buffers on the drawbacks to local government. Last edited by Bosstone; 05-21-2012 at 09:09 PM. |
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#36
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__________________
Just my 2sense |
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#37
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It seems to rub many people the wrong way when there is obvious corruption, and if the corruption affects their pocketbooks, they are even more interested in cleaning it up. In my example, there was a town chairman who discovered he could triple his income by volunteering to empty the dropboxes where fishermen left their $5 launch fees. Town ordinance said this task paid $40 for each time a box was emptied, but didn't specify how often it had to be done. Mr. "Forty Gordy" began emptying boxes far more than required, probably relieving the town of any cash that was deposited as well. Then he discovered that he didn't actually have to empty the boxes, just report that he did, and he earned another $40. This went on for a while due to the brother-in-law relationship with others in the town, but once it came out in the open, relatives couldn't protect Forty Gordy from the town's wrath, because the fees came out of the town's pocket, and therefore the taxpayer's pockets. |
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#38
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As for judges, the important thing is not whether they are elected or appointed but whether, once on the bench, they are insulated from political pressure. |
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#39
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If the law does hold, the death of local newspapers will make it worse. On the small scale, the Internet does not have nearly the reach that a town newspaper did.
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#40
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Last edited by Really Not All That Bright; 05-21-2012 at 10:48 PM. |
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#41
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They may be bastards, but at least they're our bastards.
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#42
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I worked in local government for about a decade. In my opinion, it is less corrupt than state and federal government, not because local government officials are made of tougher moral fiber than state/fed officials, but because the stakes are considerably lower in local government. Local government officials typically make decisions that involve far less money than state/federal officials, therefore, there is less interest in them by monied interests.
That said, the real estate and business community movers and shakers tend to either 1) be the local government officials or 1) be very, very close to government officials. There is nothing innately wrong with that. The local government officials make decisions that directly impact their businesses on a regular basis. The folks working at WalMart or at the grocery store, not so much. Still, the almost inevitable result is, if there's a conflict of interest between the bulk of the voters and the business/real estate crew, most of the time, the bulk of the voters are going to lose, and they're going to find out about it after the fact, because as stated upthread, no one attends local government meetings. Last edited by Evil Captor; 05-22-2012 at 10:40 AM. |
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#43
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Lind's Law has also been my general impression but I would also like to see some data.
I think the FCC auction process is probably less corrupt than auctions of public goods at the local level. I think zoning and real estate development is probably less corrupt at the federal level than the local level but once again, this is all anecdotal. |
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#44
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