Has a 200 mpg carburetor been suppressed by the oil industry?

[Nezello]

Cecil has been sucking in decades of exhaust fumes.

STEVEN SEAGAL WARNS THE WORLD ABOUT (REAL EVIL)!!

ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SUPPRESSED...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SIm4fwdROo

[Musicat]

Yep, Cecil sure missed that one. A 1994 Sci-Fi thriller flick, and it must have passed him by. Good thing it's on YouTube; now it will be taken seriously, and we all know how valuable Steven Seagal's science research filtered thru Hollywood is.

[guizot]

What's a carburetor?

[TubaDiva]

It's always nice to leave a link to the column you are referencing.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...e-oil-industry

[John W. Kennedy]

These days, of course, fuel injection is the norm, so, as predicted by Cecil, improved carburetors are a dead end. Other stuff is going on, too. My latest car is the biggest, heaviest car I’ve ever owned, and has the highest acceleration, too. But it also gets the best gas milage I’ve ever had. How? A turbocharger (which increases maximum on-demand power without significantly increasing fuel consumption when idling or cruising) and a six-speed DSG transmission that has no torque converter to waste power, shifts automatically, and can usually do it in seven milliseconds.

[PacifistPorcupine]

I'll see your carburetor and raise you cold fusion, proven to work in The Saint.

[Leaffan]

Flux capacitor.

[Czarcasm]

Oscillation overthruster.

[runner pat]

Originally Posted by Leaffan

Flux capacitor.

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

Oscillation overthruster.

Scotty's technobabble.

[Nawth Chucka]

Originally Posted by PacifistPorcupine

I'll see your carburetor and raise you cold fusion, proven to work in The Saint.

Originally Posted by Leaffan

Flux capacitor.

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

Oscillation overthruster.

Originally Posted by runner pat

Scotty's technobabble.

The laughter of children, vis 'Monsters, Inc'. When will the oil industry stop lying to us?!1

[TriPolar]

The 200mpg carb is nothing. The government has been covering up the car that runs on water for decades.

[Who_me?]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

The 200mpg carb is nothing. The government has been covering up the car that runs on water for decades.

Those are called boats...

[dropzone]

Originally Posted by Who_me?

Those are called boats...

And it's been done, though why they made them out of thin sheet steel that can rust is beyond me.

[Fredric L. Rice]

There is no such thing as "alternative energy" or "ancient energy" or "free energy," and no, the "oil industry" is not suppressing more effective technologies.

If you look at every technology that improves the number of kilometers one may travel on a litre of fuel, the technology always without exception gets adopted in the mass manufacture of conveyances once the costs of the technology fall within reach of the common user.

A 200 miles per gallon technology would not be suppressed for reasons both historicaly but also economically. Corporations which would manufacture such technology are increasingly driven by short-term profits, and any such a device would be literally worth trillions within the first 10 years of fielding.

Such claims -- huge improvements on miles per gallon, "free energy" devices like "magnet-powered motors" and all that nonsense -- are either fraud or deliberate wishful thinking.

[Fredric L. Rice]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

The 200mpg carb is nothing. The government has been covering up the car that runs on water for decades.

That's bullshit. "The government" does no such thing because such vehicles do not exist. If you're claiming that HHO vehicles are being suppressed, that's also bullshit.

[Telemark]

Originally Posted by Fredric L. Rice

That's bullshit. "The government" does no such thing because such vehicles do not exist. If you're claiming that HHO vehicles are being suppressed, that's also bullshit.

That was sarcasm, it happens from time to time around here.

Welcome to the Dope, hang around a while, you'll do fine.

[Andy L]

The 200mpg carburetor story is surprisingly old. Heinlein alludes to it in an early story of his ("Let There Be Light")

[Nunzio Tavulari]

The Avion was developed as a lightweight and aerodynamic and very fuel-efficient sports car. The prototype was completed in 1984 and set the Guinness world record for fuel economy in 1986 at 103.7-mpg average driving from the Mexico border to British Columbia Canada border.

The plan at that time was to manufacture the Avion but at the time fuel economy was not as big a concern 20 years ago and we lacked the expertise and the money to tool up and produce the cars.


Despite the recognition by Guinness, I don't know how reliable the constructor's claim is. The X-Prize for the first car to attain 100mpg was awarded in 2010 and the winning ICE entry was awarded 5 million dollars. It looks like it carries only one person and is less utilitarian than the Avion pictured on the webpage. I don't know why the Avion's builder didn't step forward and grab the loot himself, seeing as he just had this car taking up space in his garage.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by Nunzio Tavulari

The Avion was developed as a lightweight and aerodynamic and very fuel-efficient sports car. The prototype was completed in 1984 and set the Guinness world record for fuel economy in 1986 at 103.7-mpg average driving from the Mexico border to British Columbia Canada border.

The plan at that time was to manufacture the Avion but at the time fuel economy was not as big a concern 20 years ago and we lacked the expertise and the money to tool up and produce the cars.


Despite the recognition by Guinness, I don't know how reliable the constructor's claim is. The X-Prize for the first car to attain 100mpg was awarded in 2010 and the winning ICE entry was awarded 5 million dollars. It looks like it carries only one person and is less utilitarian than the Avion pictured on the webpage. I don't know why the Avion's builder didn't step forward and grab the loot himself, seeing as he just had this car taking up space in his garage.

Viewing the middle video on this page, it looks like it is extremely difficult to get into(you drop into the seat section), and I'm wondering how safe it would be in a crash.

[dropzone]

Originally Posted by Telemark

That was sarcasm, it happens from time to time around here.

Welcome to the Dope, hang around a while, you'll do fine.

Especially if you keep walking into "whooshes," Fred. Stick around a while and you'll be able to tell the scamps from the people who really are that stupid.

Originally Posted by Andy L

The 200mpg carburetor story is surprisingly old. Heinlein alludes to it in an early story of his ("Let There Be Light").

1940? I'll give you a patented one from 1902. And it works, supposedly and only under particular conditions that you are unlikely to encounter these days, like a large one or two cylinder engine operating at a constant 600 RPM and with a top speed of 15 MPH.

Even more ancient is the water into fuel scam, at least from 1851; Barnum himself speaks of it in his The Humbugs of the World from 1866.

Many persons will remember Mr. Paine—“The Great Shot-at” as he was called, from his story that people were constantly trying to kill him—and his water-gas. There have been other water gases too, which were each going to show us how to set the North River on fire, but something or other has always broken down just at the wrong moment. Nobody seems to reflect, when these water gases come up, that if water could really be made to burn, the right conditions would surely have happened at some one of the thousands of city fires, and that the very stuff with which[15] our stout firemen were extinguishing the flames, would have itself caught and exterminated the whole brave wet crowd!

[Chronos]

Quoth Fredric L. Rice:

There is no such thing as "alternative energy" or "ancient energy" or "free energy," and no, the "oil industry" is not suppressing more effective technologies.

Well, there is alternative energy, if by that you mean things like windpower or geothermal. But while those are becoming practical for centralized electricity generation, they're not practical for cars (unless you count electric vehicles that charge up from the grid, or remain connected to the grid while driving).

[TSBG]

What kind of vehicle remains connected to the grid while driving? Are you referring to trolleys and those buses that connect to overhead power lines?

[postpic200]

No big whatever isn't suppressing the 200 mpg carburetor, and if you think about it you can see why. If such a carburetor was possible, and given the number of people working on carburetors around the world at least one other person would have cracked it someplace in the world. If you look at airplanes, light bulbs, phonographs, etc, you can see odds are someone someplace would have came up with the same idea. Which would mean big whatever would be running all over the world paying off people and governments to suppress this carburetor. What are the odds that every person and government would be bought off?

Now if according to the stories this carburetor go out into the public by accident, that would mean they had a production line build to the point of putting together test carburetors, and that would mean more than one person knew how it worked. What stopping those people from sharing that information or from selling the idea to someone else?

Finally, you can find plans for the "suppressed" Stan Meyers water powered car, for HHO, and for the 200 mpg carburetor US Patent # 1,750,354 , US Patent # 2,026,798, US Patent # 1,997,497 , and I remember seeing a CD for sale that had a number of 200 mpg carburetors plans, 19.95 if I remember right. Don't have the link anymore but I'm sure with a little searching you can find it. So if big whatever is suppressing it, they aren't doing a very good job are they?

[postpic200]

Found the links but they are all dead now. All the articles are from 2004 and 2005 so its not surprising.

The company http://fuelvapors.com seem to have shut down in late 2010 at least that's when the website seems to have shutdown.


Here's an article that describes what's on the cd

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...02/312576.html

[jz78817]

Originally Posted by dropzone

1940? I'll give you a patented one from 1902. And it works, supposedly and only under particular conditions that you are unlikely to encounter these days, like a large one or two cylinder engine operating at a constant 600 RPM and with a top speed of 15 MPH.

The SAE-sponsored Supermileage competition is pretty much just that.

and as for this silly "200 mpg" carburetor myth, all one has to do is realize that even today with high-pressure direct injection, cars are still nowhere near 200 mpg.

[timbuktu]

yes a 200 mpg carburetor came out about 33 years ago. no dimensions were given but a diagram and theory was given. some testmonials were given by people who had build them. i was going to build one myself being a pattern maker in school. i have the information around in one of my boxes of papers. and yes the patent was bought by the oil companies but it had expired and all you could do is build it to put on your own cars or sale your cars with it on it.

[bump]

Originally Posted by John W. Kennedy

These days, of course, fuel injection is the norm, so, as predicted by Cecil, improved carburetors are a dead end. Other stuff is going on, too. My latest car is the biggest, heaviest car I’ve ever owned, and has the highest acceleration, too. But it also gets the best gas milage I’ve ever had. How? A turbocharger (which increases maximum on-demand power without significantly increasing fuel consumption when idling or cruising) and a six-speed DSG transmission that has no torque converter to waste power, shifts automatically, and can usually do it in seven milliseconds.

I'm guessing you mean miles per gallon of diesel, since I'm pretty sure that the DSG gearboxes aren't available on gas engined Volkswagens and Audis.

Turbochargers aren't really an efficency upgrade, except maybe in an indirect sense. All they do is cram more air & fuel into the cylinders than they'd suck in on their own; this still burns more fuel, although it gives more power and a higher compression ratio as well.

I guess where you'd see any efficiency gains is if you drove around mostly without any turbo boost, and then when you need the power of a big engine, you stomp on it and get more power than that relatively smaller engine usually provides.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by timbuktu

yes a 200 mpg carburetor came out about 33 years ago. no dimensions were given but a diagram and theory was given. some testmonials were given by people who had build them. i was going to build one myself being a pattern maker in school. i have the information around in one of my boxes of papers. and yes the patent was bought by the oil companies but it had expired and all you could do is build it to put on your own cars or sale your cars with it on it.

Gee, if I had that type of information available, I certainly wouldn't shove it into a box and forget about it for over thirty years. Got any solid info for us, like who invented it, which oil company bought it out and where it was tested?

[John W. Kennedy]

Nonsense. To begin with, patents are matters of public record. When the patent runs out, anyone can get it, and anyone can use it. Yet this same story has been making the rounds since the 60s, to my certain knowledge, and—I hear—long before.

[John W. Kennedy]

Originally Posted by bump

I'm guessing you mean miles per gallon of diesel, since I'm pretty sure that the DSG gearboxes aren't available on gas engined Volkswagens and Audis.

They are certainly available on the CC; I bloody well own one.

Turbochargers aren't really an efficency upgrade, except maybe in an indirect sense. All they do is cram more air & fuel into the cylinders than they'd suck in on their own; this still burns more fuel, although it gives more power and a higher compression ratio as well.

I guess where you'd see any efficiency gains is if you drove around mostly without any turbo boost, and then when you need the power of a big engine, you stomp on it and get more power than that relatively smaller engine usually provides.

Precisely. It gives me the milage of a 4, but with the maximum torque of a 6 for the few seconds per day that I need it.

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by timbuktu

yes a 200 mpg carburetor came out about 33 years ago. no dimensions were given but a diagram and theory was given. some testmonials were given by people who had build them. i was going to build one myself being a pattern maker in school. i have the information around in one of my boxes of papers. and yes the patent was bought by the oil companies but it had expired and all you could do is build it to put on your own cars or sale your cars with it on it.

So why don't you become rich and famous by building and selling them? The Illuminati holding you back? Black helicopters? Logic?

[fumster]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

Gee, if I had that type of information available, I certainly wouldn't shove it into a box and forget about it for over thirty years. Got any solid info for us, like who invented it, which oil company bought it out and where it was tested?

And what meds you are on.

[qazwart]

That 200 MPG carburetor will go great with my toilet paper oil filter.

[jackdavinci]

Even assuming there is some conspiracy to kill alternate energy, why would auto manufacturers give a shit, unless they are all owned by energy companies?

[Lemur866]

Look, the carburetor is not a major efficiency loss for an internal combustion engine. You can eke out small efficiency gains by good designs, but bad carburator designs do not spew 90% of the gasoline unburned out the tailpipe. And anyway, most new cars today don't even have carburetors.

It's simple nonsense to think that a simple tweak to an internal combustion engine can make it 10 times as efficient. Yes, you can make incredibly fuel efficient vehicles that get amazing gas mileage. But these vehicles aren't stock cars with more efficient engines, they are designed from the ground up to maximize fuel efficiency. Which means a single occupant, exotic lightweight materials, no cargo space, no safety equipment (such as, you know headlights), low maximum top speed, low acceleration, poor handling, and so on.

The techniques for making a super efficient vehicle aren't secret, but they require design choices that are unacceptable to 99% of vehicle owners, and wouldn't be street legal.

[Jackmannii]

Originally Posted by timbuktu

some testmonials were given

This is engraved on the Tomb of the Unknown Pseudoscientist.

[Melbourne]

Originally Posted by jz78817

all one has to do is realize that even today with high-pressure direct injection, cars are still nowhere near 200 mpg.

Hey, cars 'today' can't be very efficient: the catalytic coverter is there to burn unburned fuel in the exhaust.

The unburned fuel is there because the engine runs rich. The engine runs rich to prevent the formation of NOx emissions, which kill trees, kill city residents, and prevent global warming.

I don't know how much of the fuel efficiency of a modern car is due to gearbox, and how much to the engine, but remember, it got a lot worse in the 70's.

[Nunzio Tavulari]

Originally Posted by Melbourne

Hey, cars 'today' can't be very efficient: the catalytic coverter is there to burn unburned fuel in the exhaust.

The unburned fuel is there because the engine runs rich. The engine runs rich to prevent the formation of NOx emissions, which kill trees, kill city residents, and prevent global warming.

I don't know how much of the fuel efficiency of a modern car is due to gearbox, and how much to the engine, but remember, it got a lot worse in the 70's.

Cars 'today' would get double their current gas mileage if they weighed the same as cars in the Seventies. A Honda Accord weighs as much as a full size Chevy Impala once did but is several feet shorter. People have traded efficiency for crash protection. If we eliminated SUVs, we could dial back some of that extra weight in cars.