Will sexual mores and habits ever be similar for men and women?

[MichaelEmouse]

There are important biological differences between men and women which would, on average, make women less prone to engage in sexual conduct. For example, an unwanted pregnancy may affect a man but will affect a woman. Men very rarely have to fear for their safety in potentially or actually sexual situations. Women are more likely to contract STDs than men. Libido is influenced by hormones which are more present in men. Women always know the child is theirs.

At the same time, sexual mores and habits have changed a lot in the last century. Some habits which would have destroyed a woman's status in the past now boost it or are at least trite.

Will sexual mores, prescriptions/proscriptions and habits ever be different only to the extent they can be justified by biology and no further?


As my phrasing hopefully makes clear, the question concerns a very broad range of phenomena, including but not limited to clothes, initiative taking, number of partners and expressions of desire.

[benbo1]

I think women will always have the 'plausible deniability' excuse available to them, since most often, men are the hunters (aggressors) and women the prey (victims). Many a time, women have told a story where they blame something on the sex that happened previously, to wit:
1. I was drunk
2. I was high
3. I was depressed
4. I was lonely
5. I had just broken up with my boyfriend/gotten divorced, and needed to know it wasn't me, that I could be attractive to another man.
6. It was a holiday, & I wanted some company.

U never hear men expressing regret and looking for an excuse to explain a natural craving, an itch that both need to scratch. It's just that even at this late stage in the game, the women reflexively look to explain away their (sometimes scandalous) behavior, with the excuse of alcohol, circumstance, or something else to put the blame on as the catalyst for making it happen, rather than just admitting they had the same craving and are only human too. Of course there're always exceptions, your mileage will vary bla bla bla. All generalities are general. The point is, women are just wired differently, and most feel the need to hang some kind of explanation on why something happened, rather than just the prosaic 'I was horny & wanted sex'.

[Illuminatiprimus]

Originally Posted by benbo1

The point is, women are just wired differently, and most feel the need to hang some kind of explanation on why something happened, rather than just the prosaic 'I was horny & wanted sex'.

I don't think there is a lot of evidence for this - you're painting an extremely narrow picture of modern western female sexuality and it's not even one that is shared by anyone (there's the whole sex-positive movement out there that is embracing of sexual desire and it includes men and women).

I'd absolutely agree with your analysis of the different approach to sex, particularly the retrospective rationalisation of "why it happened" that women seem prone to doing. However I'm clear that's rooted in the socialisation of women in our culture that tells them sex is not something women are supposed to want, and that pleasing men is their purpose.

If anything as this socialisation starts to die out we'll see less of this happening, and more women saying "I'm horny, I should fuck someone" the same way that men do. I agree there is some variation at the biological level that affects how the sexes approach the act of having sex, but because individuals are so different you just can't say that a woman doesn't want as much sex as a man, because which two people are we talking about?

[Stauderhorse]

The OP is using an awful lot of generalizations. As a young woman, I feel no shame in "admitting" when I'm horny and want sex for it's own sake. I don't know a lot of other women, though, so how common this is, I don't know.

[Silver Tyger]

Of the people whose sex lives I know about, the men and the women act about the same, but I run in odd circles.

[Illuminatiprimus]

Originally Posted by Silver Tyger

Of the people whose sex lives I know about, the men and the women act about the same, but I run in odd circles.

Or maybe just more honest ones.

[even sven]

I have no idea who people think all these free and easy men are having all this promiscuous sex with. It takes two to tango, after all. If a whole bunch of men are having slutty sex, there is probably a whole bunch of ladies enjoying slutty sex with them.

[TriPolar]

Will sexual mores and habits ever be similar for men and women?

No. Men will always want more.

[benbo1]

Originally Posted by even sven

I have no idea who people think all these free and easy men are having all this promiscuous sex with. It takes two to tango, after all. If a whole bunch of men are having slutty sex, there is probably a whole bunch of ladies enjoying slutty sex with them.

Exactly. But the difference is, lots of women will feel the need to make up excuses for it. Granted, I only find out since the social circle I run in is surprisingly small - often run into 1 of these, who tells a friend something was to blame, rather than just admitting they were hungry too. It's so hypocritical - I don't go around badmouthing my 'playmates'. And no it's not THAT bad - there are repeat customers too.

[kmshrader]

Originally Posted by Stauderhorse

As a young woman, I feel no shame in "admitting" when I'm horny and want sex for it's own sake. I don't know a lot of other women, though, so how common this is, I don't know.

Originally Posted by even sven

I have no idea who people think all these free and easy men are having all this promiscuous sex with. It takes two to tango, after all. If a whole bunch of men are having slutty sex, there is probably a whole bunch of ladies enjoying slutty sex with them.

Both of these. I'm a young woman who was raised in a socially liberal household in a stupidly conservative part of the United States, and I have no problem admitting when I want to scratch an itch. More importantly for this conversation, I've noticed the viewpoints of my much more conservative female friends develop in the last few years, and the trend is definitely toward hookups and casual sex*, though I also don't know anyone who's outspokenly averse to serious relationships.

*On this point, women I know who aren't in relationships tend to be looking for EITHER a relationship or a trustworthy semi-regular booty call, and in some cases their preference would be for the latter. And they're perfectly willing to sleep around a bit in the interim.

[even sven]

Originally Posted by benbo1

Exactly. But the difference is, lots of women will feel the need to make up excuses for it. Granted, I only find out since the social circle I run in is surprisingly small - often run into 1 of these, who tells a friend something was to blame, rather than just admitting they were hungry too. It's so hypocritical - I don't go around badmouthing my 'playmates'. And no it's not THAT bad - there are repeat customers too.

Eh, I've heard plenty of guys say stuff like "I must have had my beer goggles on."

[benbo1]

Originally Posted by even sven

Eh, I've heard plenty of guys say stuff like "I must have had my beer goggles on."

But they don't blame HER. The women I'm talking about blame the guy, taking advantage of them vis a vis alcohol - or drugs - or vulnerability - or loneliness, etc. They just can't be grownups & chalk it up to horny. I bet the 'beer goggles' guy ain't complaining or trashing the woman.

[Lemur866]

Originally Posted by even sven

I have no idea who people think all these free and easy men are having all this promiscuous sex with. It takes two to tango, after all. If a whole bunch of men are having slutty sex, there is probably a whole bunch of ladies enjoying slutty sex with them.

I know what you mean. I remember reading a novel many years ago and a passage really stuck with me. The lonely female narrator was lamenting that if she was a man, she could just go and have sex with some stranger, but because she was a woman, and needed some emotional connection, she couldn't. I almost threw the book across the room. Who did the author think those men were having anonymous sex with? Each other? A man can't have a sleazy emotionless hookup with a woman unless a woman is having a sleazy emotionless hookup with a man.

[Nava]

He's saying she was so ugly he wouldn't have fucked her if he'd been sober. That sounds like "trashing" to me.


ETA: that was to benbo1

[heathen earthling]

It's not trashing a woman if a man says he wouldn't have hooked up with her if he hadn't been drunk?

[benbo1]

Originally Posted by Nava

He's saying she was so ugly he wouldn't have fucked her if he'd been sober. That sounds like "trashing" to me.


ETA: that was to benbo1

Originally Posted by heathen earthling

It's not trashing a woman if a man says he wouldn't have hooked up with her if he hadn't been drunk?

Fine. Specifically, attacking his/her character. Women routinely make fun of men's looks too. But find me a man that bitches about a 1-niter he had. The 'beer goggles' comment is childish, but not character assassination. The woman is saying, 'he only got me because of some intervening force, not if I was normal that day. He is loathsome because he takes advantage of women'. The guy making the 'beer goggles' comment is recognized for being an asshole; the woman claiming she was taken advantage of immediately garners sympathy. Is this thread the 1st exposure to male-female dynamics?

[Girl From Mars]

Originally Posted by benbo1

Fine. Specifically, attacking his/her character. Women routinely make fun of men's looks too. But find me a man that bitches about a 1-niter he had. The 'beer goggles' comment is childish, but not character assassination. The woman is saying, 'he only got me because of some intervening force, not if I was normal that day. He is loathsome because he takes advantage of women'.

Your original post contains no mention of coercion - all of the statements are inward looking, with the woman blaming her choice of behaviour on reasons such as 'I was drunk', or 'I was lonely'. This is pretty much the same as the man's version of beer goggles, which could actually be seen to be more insulting as it denigrates the woman involved. Perhaps there is additional commentary that the people you associate with make which suggests pressure from the male in the situation, but it's not reflected in your post.

And I agree with many of the previous posters - much of the expressed difference between men and women is down to social conditioning.

[benbo1]

That's what the women are implying by using whatever excuse - the guy took advantage of (not, 'coerced') the woman, and were she in her right mind, it wouldn't have happened. In other words, 'he took advantage of me because of drugs/alcohol/loneliness'. The man ain't implying that with the 'beer goggles'. Moreover, anyone hearing would realize he's just being a douchebag.
Social conditioning only goes so far - in this day & age, why not just say, either way, 'it happened because I was horny'?

[Illuminatiprimus]

Originally Posted by benbo1

Social conditioning only goes so far - in this day & age, why not just say, either way, 'it happened because I was horny'?

I think this is a false dilemma, in my experience women are just as capable of saying "it happened because I was horny" as men, they just don't always. The reasons why they don't are mainly social, I believe, but there is always the issue of individual outlook at well.