No Avatars Here? Why?

[PlainJain]

Originally Posted by billfish678

Can. You. People. Not. Read. ?

It the fact that someone uses a fracking (I'm going make it clear here right now)

A

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to be a jerk. And Ed does not like A V A T A R S

Yeah I can read just fine. The description for this forum reads:

"For all questions, comments, and complaints about the SDMB."

The question is why no avatars. I have added my comments. Some want to complain about it. They are doing it in the right forum... a for created for such discussions. I have no idea what you are on about or why you feel Ed needs your backing but really this conversation is tootling along just fine.

Take a deep breath, step back from computer.

[Measure for Measure]

Originally Posted by Measure for Measure

Avatars arguably assist in the fight against ignorance...

Originally Posted by billfish678

While I liked the rest of your post I don't see (heh) this part. I'm not saying they certainly do NOT, but on the other hand to me its not obvious they argueable DO.

A graphic image aids in distinguishing between posters, especially those with similar user names. That's all. IMHO, this is small beer insofar as fighting ignorance is concerned, but nonetheless is worth a mention.

[RaftPeople]

Originally Posted by Measure for Measure

A graphic image aids in distinguishing between posters, especially those with similar user names. That's all. IMHO, this is small beer insofar as fighting ignorance is concerned, but nonetheless is worth a mention.

I think the primary way avatars fight ignorance is that they show you which avatar that poster would have chosen.

For example:

The Entire Internet: Hmm, wonder what avatar RaftPeople would have. A raft? Some people? A mime juggling puppies?


If we had avatars, this piece of ignorance would be substantially fought. As it is, you (The Entire Internet) are kept in the dark, oppressed, never to experience the enlightenment that would shine forth upon the revelation of RaftPeople's avatar.

[spinky]

Heh, I didn't even know this thread was going on, but I started seeing bunches of hits to my little avatar service, so I came looking. Coolness. Where's the current copy of the greasemonkey script being kept? Is someone maintaining it?

[Crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by ntucker

Heh, I didn't even know this thread was going on, but I started seeing bunches of hits to my little avatar service, so I came looking. Coolness. Where's the current copy of the greasemonkey script being kept? Is someone maintaining it?

So far I've only been sending it to people that requested it by PM and I will PM you a copy immediately, sir.

I hope the sudden spike in hits to the CGI didn't cause any problem. I was surprised it was still up after almost a year but now the idea seems to be getting a little more interest.

[spinky]

No problem at all; I just check my logs occasionally to see if there's anything I need to worry about. The load should be negligible. If my server couldn't handle the additional load of serving avatars, it would be time to dig around in the couch cushions for upgrade money. *cough*

[Polerius]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse

So far I've only been sending it to people that requested it by PM

Crazyhorse, FYI, since there are people complaining that they don't know how to use Greasemonkey scripts, there is a website that turns them into Firefox add-ons. So you could, if you wanted, compile your finished script into an add-on and make it easy for the non-technical folks to use it.

ETA: I haven't used this Greasemonkey compiler myself, so not sure how well it works, but have found websites claiming it works well. Also, there may be a similar service for Chrome

[Polerius]

Originally Posted by Polerius

Crazyhorse, FYI, since there are people complaining that they don't know how to use Greasemonkey scripts, there is a website that turns them into Firefox add-ons. So you could, if you wanted, compile your finished script into an add-on and make it easy for the non-technical folks to use it.

Alternatively, if you upload the script to userscripts.org, Firefox and Chrome users can install it with the click of a button.

[Crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by Polerius

Alternatively, if you upload the script to userscripts.org, Firefox and Chrome users can install it with the click of a button.

That is a great idea. I've really still just been trying to get my attempt at a script a little better optimized and tested before too many people got a version they might need to update 30 minutes later. ntucker just fixed a problem I had been stewing over for 2 days in about 20 seconds. You wrote the original GM script and he wrote and hosts the CGI so I defer to entirely to you both on any calls about how to maintain and serve the code. I was planning to just post the final script and instructions here, and update it as necessary, but making an installer or compiling to a plug-in are both better ideas.

[spinky]

I'll leave it up to you guys. I'm happy to help out, but I don't want to own it.

[Crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by ntucker

I'll leave it up to you guys. I'm happy to help out, but I don't want to own it.

I was sort of the Steve Jobs of this project. All I knew is it was a good idea whose time had come. In your absence I managed to hack together a little shred of code to connect the two things you had previously written. I'd be glad to continue maintaining the code though and accepting any kudos while ignoring all complaints.

[cmyk]

Back in 2009, or whenever ntucker was building that GreaseMonkey script for adding generic identity/descriptor ID badges for posters, I mocked up these graphically consistant icons in my freetime.

I still have the original layered PSDs, and I had also sliced up each badge into 32x32 pixel .gifs. If anyone still tooling with the script would still like to implement these, just PM me.

[cmyk]

Excuse me, apparently weirdaaron wrote that script.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

I thought that Greasemonkey script was going to be hard to install but it was easy peasy, lemon squeezy.

I'm loving it so far, thanks for those of you responsible for it!

[cmyk]

It's a no brainer if you know how to copy & paste. Crazyhorse also provided great step-by-step instructions.

OMG, avatars! It's the end of the fucking world!

[Loach]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

I never said I was, and if you actually feel that I am presenting myself in such a way why don't you quit whining about it and report me?

You know its not against the rules, its just annoying.

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

My personal position is that:
1. It would be more work for the moderators, and
2. It's the house rules that I agreed to, and I don't find this rule to be anywhere near unbearable or oppressive.

Thanks for finally putting in your personal opinion.

1. In the last thread about the arbitrarynaughty language in the Pit thread increased work for the mods was brought up. Miller jokingly sacastically complained about the couple of minutes of extra work it takes for him to write notes to violators. This argument is either true for both rules or neither. I suspect it may on occasion increase the work load of the mods by a few minutes just like the language rule does.

2. One of the house rules here is that there is a forum in which we are able to discuss our problems with the board, its rules and it moderation. Ed could easily outlaw dissent and ban anyone who questions his authority. He does not. The threshold for complaints or discussion should not be If its not unbearable or oppresive you should shut your mouth. If there were any rules here that were unbearable or oppresive I would leave. As I'm sure many others will. For the most part I find this board to my liking. When an issue comes up and I don't agree with how it is handled I give my opinion. Because thats what the purpose of this forum and those threads are for. It gets annoying and only prolongs the threads when someone comes in and says "Those are the rules, shut up and take it or get out."

Originally Posted by billfish678

I'm just waiting for a variation of this scenario to emerge:

Avatars start getting used. Either legitimately or the Greasemonkey way. Then one day a racially charge thing that gets discussed/debated comes up. Let's say Rodney King the 2013 version. Discussion get heated and finally one of pro-police (or pro racist depending on your point of view I guess) posters gets pissed and changes their avatar to something like a crying white baby in black face.

Oh boy, the shit starts flying and its off to the pit about this racist avatar.

Either Ed's head explodes or I predict a very strict don't ask don't tell or you are insta banned for mentioning anything about someone's avatar get implemented shortly there after.

Which is any different then what is going on about hate speech how? We recently had a lively ATMB and Pit threads going on at the same time about the same poster due to hate speech.

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse

It's funny that a lot of the arguments against anyone enjoying avatars here are things like "We're way too sophisticated for that kid stuff. We are content based, and topic oriented, and our words are the way we express ourselves here as mature adults."

But then when we talk about the perceived difficulty in having to mod avatars it's "ARE YOU CRAZY?! Do you have any idea of the kind of obscene stunts that Dopers would pull if given any opportunity to do so?"

Anyway some mods have said it would be no more of a challenge than modding posts. If an image breaks a rule they note/warn/ban as per board rules now. This would eliminate the often cited prediction of users constantly changing avatars. The avatars may come and go, but the warnings would remain, and anyone who made themselves an avatar problem would quickly go the way of all those who are banned for disorderly conduct of any kind.

All good points.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by cmyk

It's a no brainer if you know how to copy & paste. Crazyhorse also provided great step-by-step instructions.

OMG, avatars! It's the end of the fucking world!

Damn I was wrong. That changes the entire board. Dogs and Cats living together!

[cmyk]

Originally Posted by Loach

Damn I was wrong. That changes the entire board. Dogs and Cats living together!

It could tear a hole in space-time and T-rexes could come spilling into our modern world.

But, hey, I'm a risk-taker.

[CarnalK]

Originally Posted by Sleeps With Butterflies

I'm loving it so far, thanks for those of you responsible for it!

Indeed. They are the SDMB equivalent of Martin Luther King.

On the other hand, Fenris' advocacy for avatars comes across as the SDMB equivalent of Al Sharpton.

[Hbns]

Originally Posted by Heffalump and Roo

I don't care for the ways that avatars can be used to identify those people who are in a certain group or who read a certain themed thread because the people who are self-identifying can seem cliquish without necessarily meaning to be, and it also can seem exclusionary to some. It can look less inviting from the outside or to new people. It's possible to create an environment where new people are less likely to join, perhaps inadvertently. I appreciate, based on the comments from the mods in these threads, that the SDMB is a place where new people are welcomed and that the environment being a welcoming one is valued.

LOL so hard my eyes are watering!

[RaftPeople]

Are you guys noticing that the SDMB seems more cluttered today?

[elmwood]

More bad gay marriage analogies:

SDMB: "If you want avatars so badly, there's plenty of other message boards that have avatars."
South Carolina: "If y'all want to gay marry, y'all free to pack your bags and move your asses to Taxachusetts or Canada or Commieland or wherever to do it."

SDMB: "You can always install Greasemonkey, install this script, and add a line in your profile if you want to see avatars."
South Carolina: "Ain't nobody stopping y'all from doin' whatever the hell it is that you do. I just ain't don't want to see the state put no rubber stamp on y'alls sinnin'."

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by cmyk

It's a no brainer if you know how to copy & paste.

Well, I don't. Thank you SO MUCH for calling attention to my disability!

Crazyhorse also provided great step-by-step instructions.

Is there any reason these couldn't be posted into a new ATMB thread? Seems like it would save a lot of PMing, and let casual avatar enthusiasts try them out.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Polerius

Alternatively, if you upload the script to userscripts.org, Firefox and Chrome users can install it with the click of a button.

If you could pm me instructions, I'm trying, and I'm completely stumped. How DO I upload to upload it? I use Chrome, if that helps.

[Crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

If you could pm me instructions, I'm trying, and I'm completely stumped. How DO I upload to upload it? I use Chrome, if that helps.

I haven't tried it with Chrome but Tangent has it working and sent me these instructions. (scroll down to the section titled: "Install User Scripts Manually")

It looks really simple. You save the contents of the script I sent you as a plain text file named "Whatever.user.js" where whatever is whatever you want, followed by .user.js
and then just drop that file onto any Chrome window. You should get a dialog asking if you want to install a user script, just click "Install" and it should do the rest.

[Czarcasm]

i don't know if this has been answered, but if someone who has installed this posts an avatar that another poster using the same program finds objectionable, who handles it?

[Crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

i don't know if this has been answered, but if someone who has installed this posts an avatar that another poster using the same program finds objectionable, who handles it?

This particular script finds a URL to the person's desired profile from their SDMB profile, so in order to put something objectionable out as an avatar they would need to put something objectionable in their public SDMB profile.

My thinking is this would be subject to moderator action. If someone brings objectionable content in a SDMB profile to the attention of a mod it shouldn't matter how or why they noticed that content (e.g. using a greasemonkey script to show avatars or randomly browsing). And as far as looking at it from the standpoint of a board infraction, if someone puts something objectionable in their profile it shouldn't matter if their intention was to offend greasemonkey users specifically or just random people who might browse their profiles.

ETA - the script also includes a simple way to 'block' any users avatar if desired, or replace it with one of the users own choosing.

[Czarcasm]

Would the monitors have to install the program to properly judge said avatar?

[Fenris]

No--they could easily click on the link in the offender's profile.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by Fenris

No--they could easily click on the link in the offender's profile.

Understood.

[Crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

Would the monitors have to install the program to properly judge said avatar?

No they would only need to inspect the contents of a SDMB profile. For example if someone reported "Crazyhorse has an offensive image linked in his profile" they might follow that link to determine if it is indeed objectionable and take whatever action is appropriate, but it wouldn't matter if it was noticed by someone using an avatar script or just browsing their profile as a regular board user with no add-ons.

[RaftPeople]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

i don't know if this has been answered, but if someone who has installed this posts an avatar that another poster using the same program finds objectionable, who handles it?

Does it really matter?

There really isn't any ability to control what people want to do outside of the software and on their own computers.

For example: instead of a link for avatars, what if someone hosted the avatars and they were all automatically linked by the SDMB user id? There would be no content on the SDMB that could be controlled by the mods to resolve that problem.


Or another example:
What if the snackpit decided to automatically replace any reference to an SDMB user id with an image of their choice. What could anyone do about that?


Once the content leaves the SDMB and arrives at your browser, you can do whatever you want with it (as long as it's not illegal).

[Fenris]

Hell, I believe you could even point the greasemonkey script to the SDMB people pages.

( flees )

[cmyk]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

Well, I don't. Thank you SO MUCH for calling attention to my disability!

I didn't mean to offend! Please accept my apologies by copying and pasting this link into your br--- shit...

I'll send beer.

Originally Posted by Giraffe

Is there any reason these couldn't be posted into a new ATMB thread? Seems like it would save a lot of PMing, and let casual avatar enthusiasts try them out.

I'm bolding, upsizing, and highlighting this notion in an obnoxious color and font to show my favor and support.

It is a rare honor.

[Crazyhorse]

I was trying to keep the script to a limited distribution mainly until we got the OK from ntucker to keep using his CGI, and he and Polerius had a chance to give the code a once over. It was lucky they did because there were two huge improvements made to both the script and the CGI as a result of that quick once over.

Now that the idea of making it an installable link on userscripts.org was brought up I was going to try to do that. Maybe release the code there and have a discussion thread here.

The script was originally getting updated about every hour and trying to maintain a version for general consumption would have been complicated by constant updates, but now it seems pretty stable and just about "version 1.0 ready". As far as I'm concerned it could be posted as-is for those who want to try it manually while development continues on a one-click install version.

[Guinastasia]

Finally! Thank you, Crazyhorse! (Turns out I was using an outdated version, and that's why I couldn't get it to work)

[cmyk]

Awesome. Thanks Crazyhorse, ntucker, Polerius and any others who may have had a hand in getting this totally working, easy, fast and serviceable. I'm able to get it working in both FF and Chrome. Haven't really looked into Safari yet. Not sure if there's a Greasemonkey workaround there?

Now, if anyone would be up for giving weirdaaron's ID badge script a boost, and work in tandem with the avatars (as the avatars push the username over and the badges overlay), I'm sure karma would eventually pay you back in some way, as my gratitude is only worth about a cup of coffee and maybe a bagel.

[Sister Vigilante]

Originally Posted by CairoCarol

Don't get me wrong, I think avatars are harmless fun and often useful, but your statement is insufficient to prove anything unless you've been moderating on those boards yourself. It could simply be that the boards you frequent have an active moderating team and safeguards in place so that the offensive avatars are dealt with behind the scenes quickly and quietly.

I have been an admin for 10 of those 15 years I spoke of. I own my site, along with two others. The closest we got was a shot of some Star Trek character that showed a lot but mostly nothing (T'Pol), thus didn't break the rules. Rest assured we'd have smacked them down or, better, like vbulletin allows, just gone in and removed it, with a note not to do that again. It's not hard, to anyone who uses vbulletin, which this site does.

I have also had admin power over at least three other forums that have since died. I wasn't their creator so I'm not all broken up about it.

[Crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by cmyk

Now, if anyone would be up for giving weirdaaron's ID badge script a boost, and work in tandem with the avatars (as the avatars push the username over and the badges overlay), I'm sure karma would eventually pay you back in some way, as my gratitude is only worth about a cup of coffee and maybe a bagel.

You're the second person to mention that so I installed weirdaaron's script and I see the issue. The badges get partially hidden when the SDMB avatar moves the username over. But I can't think of any better place to put the avatar than where it is. It might be fixable by just having the badges begin 50 pixels to the right of where they do if that is possible. Although then in cases where someone has badges but no avatar there would be a 50 pixel space before the badges appeared.

With a quick look through the script I can see it's too advanced for me to tinker with. Even if I would presume to do so I would probably break it, and I don't know a way to make scripts talk to each other if one exists so I'm already out of ideas.

Hopefully once there is a discussion on the Avatar code and installation etc. some GM experts will be able to tackle this.

[Guinastasia]

If we do get avatars around here, I foresee a LOT of Monty Python, Star Wars, and custom SDMB injokes. (I would love to make avatars for people)

[PlainJain]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

(I would love to make avatars for people)

I'll volunteer my services as well.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Loach

Damn I was wrong. That changes the entire board. Dogs and Cats living together!

I just saw FIVE Hitler avatars!!! And two tubgirls!


_{Not really}

[Crazyhorse]

For anyone interested in trying it out I put up a test link to a one-click installer for the SDMB Avatar Script.

If you already have Greasemonkey installed in Firefox (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir.../greasemonkey/) you can just click "install" at that link and automatically have the script added and enabled. Chrome has built-in support for user scripts but I don't know if the one-click installer supports Chrome. If not you can just download the script and drop the file onto any Chrome window to install it.

This release also includes a simple way to change the default size of avatars to something other than the 50x50 pixel default.

If you already have an older version of the script it is recommended that you delete it before installing the new one to prevent any conflicts.

To add your own avatar, just put a line in your SDMB profile beginning with "SDMB Avatar: " and then the URL to an image you want to use. See my profile for an example.

The script is commented in all areas that can be customized by the user, such as assigning custom avatars to individual posters or changing the default size of displayed avatars.

[Rachellelogram]

Avatars are working flawlessly since Crazyhorse PMd the latest script to me. I can't thank you and ntucker enough! I would shower you with nickels if you were before me right now.

If the animation is too much, let me know.

[Tangent]

It's been working great for me, too, in both Firefox and Chrome. Thank you Crazyhorse, ntucker, and Polerius!

[Rachellelogram]

I'm wondering, what's the lag time between changing an avatar and it updating on the server side? I wanted to upload a new avatar. So I changed my user image on the Profile screen, changed my Bio link, and even added a custom line into my script with the new picture. Then I deleted the old one. But my avatar is still showing a 403: forbidden because it's trying to link to the old one.

Other than what I presume is a minor amount of lag time in updates, it's flawless. Although it's a little strange that I updated my user script client-side with my new link and it isn't taking precedence over the old one.

[Crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by rachelellogram

I'm wondering, what's the lag time between changing an avatar and it updating on the server side? I wanted to upload a new avatar. So I changed my user image on the Profile screen, changed my Bio link, and even added a custom line into my script with the new picture. Then I deleted the old one. But my avatar is still showing a 403: forbidden because it's trying to link to the old one.

Other than what I presume is a minor amount of lag time in updates, it's flawless. Although it's a little strange that I updated my user script client-side with my new link and it isn't taking precedence over the old one.

I remember reading in the notes ntucker put in his post about the CGI in the other avatar thread that it only checks the same profile a second time after an hour has passed. So it will keep returning a cached version of the original URL for anywhere from 1 to 59 minutes after you change it, just depending on how long it happens to have been at the time you make the change. I changed mine today too and noticed it start to appear after maybe 10 or 15 minutes.

[Crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by rachelellogram

I updated my user script client-side with my new link and it isn't taking precedence over the old one.

Ah I didn't notice this detail, but if you added the new link to your custom avatars directly in the script, then that should have displayed for you right away, even if other users didn't catch up to the change in your profile for up to an hour. I'm not sure what might have caused that if you're sure the custom one was entered exactly right.

[Rachellelogram]

Thank you for that info! It's updated now. And that's a totally reasonable lag time, given that it's someone else's own server.

This is your gold star. There are many gold stars, but this one is yours.

It's possible that I messed it up. I did a copy and paste on someone else's line and just replaced it with my own username and image URL. But I'm not worried about that.

[Crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by rachelellogram

Thank you for that info! It's updated now. And that's a totally reasonable lag time, given that it's someone else's own server.

This is your gold star. There are many gold stars, but this one is yours.

Thank you. I may have to make that my avatar.